Mike: "When Jesus returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange Book and be teaching you from it."
A few pages later, someone asked if he was joking. "So, you were serious about Jesus returning with the Orange Book in his hand?
Mike: "Quite serious. I've seen him this way many times myself."
===============
I forget if Jesus was also studying from the Orange Book, as well.
Thanks WordWolf. This is so insane I've got to think there's a miniscule chance he was playing with us. If not, it does give me reason to worry big time about him.
Thanks WordWolf. This is so insane I've got to think there's a miniscule chance he was playing with us. If not, it does give me reason to worry big time about him.
Yes he might be spinning us up in response to a criticism.
But it relates to this idea of “collaterals” or something as an entity or whole that I guess now we are making molten images of? So is the next statue for the lobby a bronze desk with “collaterals” on it?
I see that in the Way rag. Pumping up the RHST book and another VPW pistis teaching.
As a way to misdirect the idea from the golden image of “The Teacher” to a golden image of “The Teachings”
Yes he might be spinning us up in response to a criticism.
But it relates to this idea of “collaterals” or something as an entity or whole that I guess now we are making molten images of? So is the next statue for the lobby a bronze desk with “collaterals” on it?
I see that in the Way rag. Pumping up the RHST book and another VPW pistis teaching.
As a way to misdirect the idea from the golden image of “The Teacher” to a golden image of “The Teachings”
Yes he might be spinning us up in response to a criticism.
But it relates to this idea of “collaterals” or something as an entity or whole that I guess now we are making molten images of? So is the next statue for the lobby a bronze desk with “collaterals” on it?
I see that in the Way rag. Pumping up the RHST book and another VPW pistis teaching.
As a way to misdirect the idea from the golden image of “The Teacher” to a golden image of “The Teachings”
50 years ago, I would have eagerly bought into this and scooped me up one of those d*mn bronze desks. Now, I would put a wooden plaque next to it which said "Jesus wept."
It' just all so sad when you compare what twi offers to the reality of Christianity being relationship based - not to a man or his books - but with God our Father and Christ our Lord.
50 years ago, I would have eagerly bought into this and scooped me up one of those d*mn bronze desks. Now, I would put a wooden plaque next to it which said "Jesus wept."
38 minutes ago, chockfull said:
Yes he might be spinning us up in response to a criticism.
But it relates to this idea of “collaterals” or something as an entity or whole that I guess now we are making molten images of? So is the next statue for the lobby a bronze desk with “collaterals” on it?
I see that in the Way rag. Pumping up the RHST book and another VPW pistis teaching.
As a way to misdirect the idea from the golden image of “The Teacher” to a golden image of “The Teachings”
Then again, Jesus might have done something like a Matthew 21:12-13 if he saw this.
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”
You can post here however the heck you want and it has nothing to do with mike..he has no credibility here and please please please keep right on posting the same content and hear-felt material you have contributed to date. Mike is unqualified to talk about a relationship with Jesus Christ because he believe Christ is absent.
50 years ago, I would have eagerly bought into this and scooped me up one of those d*mn bronze desks. Now, I would put a wooden plaque next to it which said "Jesus wept."
It' just all so sad when you compare what twi offers to the reality of Christianity being relationship based - not to a man or his books - but with God our Father and Christ our Lord.
Hence the reason The Way International continues with the whitewash program - to conceal the unpleasant fact that it is STILL a pseudo-Christian organization…NOT based on the person and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ - but on the challenging counterfeit, wierwille!
50 years ago, if you would have said to me “how would you like to learn about God and the Bible by following a hypocritical unabashed plagiarist delusional megalomaniac malignant narcissist money-grubbing chain-smoking drunkard misogynistic sexual predator who will exploit you until you’re all used up?”
I probably would have responded by saying “no thanks, if that’s what God and the Bible are all about, I’ll look elsewhere.”
~ ~ ~ ~
There’s a time coming when all those who have misled others will have to answer for their crimes:
At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!
Thanks Bolshevik, I've been doing more thinking on this.
According to John 16, Jesus is the "source of or behind" everything that the spirit of truth would say and do. This was the same deal with Jesus and his Father. Jesus, after he received the spirit of God when he was baptized, always said that everything he did and said was what his Father showed or told him to do and say.
The point to this is that the focus is on the "source" from whom all knowledge and power originates.
If I edited the GP as follows - "The great principle we see from these verses is that God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your (His) spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm AS YOU act or AS YOU speak out as you listen to and obey God...
- you would get "God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you. Then His spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you listen to and obey Him." We're still in there, but God, not us, is the focus.
New question is if it's significant whether the spirit of truth is an "it" as in twi's GP or an "he" as in the Bible.
As a follow up to what I wrote above, I believe the gift of holy spirit is not an "it" as twi would want us to believe. The spirit in us is alive and life giving. twi might argue that a tree is a living thing and we call it an "it," but the big difference is that you cannot converse with a tree nor have a personal relationship with one. They want to call the gift of holy spirit an "it" (like a car) so that they can insist that the spirit needs to be operated by us.
That leaves the Greek pronoun for "the spirit" being interpreted as "he" which it is in most Bible versions. I'm okay with that whether the spirit is a separate entity in addition to God and Jesus or not. What I do know is that because of the gift of holy spirit in us, we can have a 2-way relationship and fellowship with both God and Christ who are the source of all spiritual blessings.
thinking about ‘the great principle’, I came up with more questions than answers. The following is a shortened/revised version of ‘the great principle’ as best I remember it:
God (who is Spirit) - - > teaches His creation in you (your spirit) - - > your spirit teaches your mind - - > evidenced by what you do.
What is spirit?
What is the mind?
What is the difference between the brain and the mind?
Is there a difference between spirit and the mind?
~ ~ ~ ~
Though mind and brain are two terms that are understood to mean the same when used in the colloquial sense, there is a difference between mind and brain. There is certainly some difference between the two in their making. The brain is made of physical matter while the mind is not made of physical matter. To be more elaborate, the brain is made up of cells, blood vessels and nerves to name a few. Mind is nothing but the thought that resides in the brain. Apart from thoughts, the mind gives room for emotions, memories, and dreams as well.
Mind or mentality is usually contrasted with body, matter, or physicality. The issue of the nature of this contrast and specifically the relation between mind and brain is called the mind-body problem. Traditional viewpoints included dualism and idealism, which consider the mind to be non-physical…
…Psychologists such as Freud and James, and computer scientists such as Turing developed influential theories about the nature of the mind. The possibility of nonbiological minds is explored in the field of artificial intelligence, which works closely in relation with cybernetics and information theory to understand the ways in which information processing by nonbiological machines is comparable or different to mental phenomena in the human mind. The mind is also sometimes portrayed as the stream of consciousness where sense impressions and mental phenomena are constantly changing…
…Broadly speaking, mental faculties are the various functions of the mind, or things the mind can "do"…
…Thought is a mental act that allows humans to make sense of things in the world, and to represent and interpret them in ways that are significant, or which accord with their needs, attachments, goals, commitments, plans, ends, desires, etc. Thinking involves the symbolic or semiotic mediation of ideas or data, as when we form concepts, engage in problem solving, reasoning, and making decisions. Words that refer to similar concepts and processes include deliberation, cognition, ideation, discourse, and imagination…
…The mental phenomena brought about by the faculties of the mind have been categorized according to various distinctions. Important distinctions group mental phenomena together according to whether they are sensory, qualitative, propositional, intentional, conscious, occurrent or rational. These different distinctions result in overlapping categorizations. Some mental phenomena, like perception or bodily awareness, are sensory, i.e. based on the senses…
…Understanding the relationship between the brain and the mind – the mind–body problem – is one of the central issues in the history of philosophy, a challenging problem both philosophically and scientifically. There are three major philosophical schools of thought concerning the answer: dualism, materialism, and idealism. Dualism holds that the mind exists independently of the brain; materialism holds that mental phenomena are identical to neuronal phenomena; and idealism holds that only mental phenomena exist.
…Major changes to the brain such as strokes, injuries, or conditions such as dementia can clearly affect and impair our psychological functioning. And more minor changes — such as those caused by the ingestion of drugs — clearly have very marked psychological effects too. But we have to remember that this casual relationship works the other way around, and that changes to psychological functioning cause neurological changes. This has not only been illustrated by the above research into CBT, but also by a massive amount of research into meditation and mindfulness. The phenomenon of neuroplasticity shows this too — that the brain is continually in flux and changes according to how we use it…
…The brain and the mind exist in a symbiotic relationship, in which they both affect each other, but in which neither is entirely the other. As a result, to some extent, we have to treat them as distinct phenomena.
On another thread I shared the following from Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology that made me realize what little I know about the Holy Spirit:
In the realm of nature, it is the role of the Holy Spirit to give life to all animate creatures, whether on the ground or in the sky and sea, for “When you send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Ps. 104:30). Conversely, if God “should take back his spirit to himself, and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust” (Job 34:14 - 15). Here we see the role of the Spirit in the giving and sustaining of human and animal life.
Parallel with this is the role of the Holy Spirit to give us new life in regeneration. Jesus told Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew (John 3:6 – 7; cf. vv. 5, 8; 6:63; 2 Cor. 3:6). He also said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63 NASB; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6; Acts 10: 44 – 47; Titus 3:5).
Consistent with this life-giving function of the Holy Spirit is the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary his mother (Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). And on the day when Christ returns, it is the same Holy Spirit who will complete this life-giving work by giving new resurrection life to our mortal bodies: “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11).
The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?
~ ~ ~ ~
Alright…drum roll please…big finish…hey A/V guy in the back, show the brain map…forget about how spirit works with the mind – I’m fascinated to just look at this and try to understand how this mind / body symbiosis works…try chewing gum and looking at this picture at the same time
thinking about ‘the great principle’, I came up with more questions than answers. The following is a shortened/revised version of ‘the great principle’ as best I remember it:
God (who is Spirit) - - > teaches His creation in you (your spirit) - - > your spirit teaches your mind - - > evidenced by what you do.
What is spirit?
What is the mind?
What is the difference between the brain and the mind?
Is there a difference between spirit and the mind?
~ ~ ~ ~
Though mind and brain are two terms that are understood to mean the same when used in the colloquial sense, there is a difference between mind and brain. There is certainly some difference between the two in their making. The brain is made of physical matter while the mind is not made of physical matter. To be more elaborate, the brain is made up of cells, blood vessels and nerves to name a few. Mind is nothing but the thought that resides in the brain. Apart from thoughts, the mind gives room for emotions, memories, and dreams as well.
Mind or mentality is usually contrasted with body, matter, or physicality. The issue of the nature of this contrast and specifically the relation between mind and brain is called the mind-body problem. Traditional viewpoints included dualism and idealism, which consider the mind to be non-physical…
…Psychologists such as Freud and James, and computer scientists such as Turing developed influential theories about the nature of the mind. The possibility of nonbiological minds is explored in the field of artificial intelligence, which works closely in relation with cybernetics and information theory to understand the ways in which information processing by nonbiological machines is comparable or different to mental phenomena in the human mind. The mind is also sometimes portrayed as the stream of consciousness where sense impressions and mental phenomena are constantly changing…
…Broadly speaking, mental faculties are the various functions of the mind, or things the mind can "do"…
…Thought is a mental act that allows humans to make sense of things in the world, and to represent and interpret them in ways that are significant, or which accord with their needs, attachments, goals, commitments, plans, ends, desires, etc. Thinking involves the symbolic or semiotic mediation of ideas or data, as when we form concepts, engage in problem solving, reasoning, and making decisions. Words that refer to similar concepts and processes include deliberation, cognition, ideation, discourse, and imagination…
…The mental phenomena brought about by the faculties of the mind have been categorized according to various distinctions. Important distinctions group mental phenomena together according to whether they are sensory, qualitative, propositional, intentional, conscious, occurrent or rational. These different distinctions result in overlapping categorizations. Some mental phenomena, like perception or bodily awareness, are sensory, i.e. based on the senses…
…Understanding the relationship between the brain and the mind – the mind–body problem – is one of the central issues in the history of philosophy, a challenging problem both philosophically and scientifically. There are three major philosophical schools of thought concerning the answer: dualism, materialism, and idealism. Dualism holds that the mind exists independently of the brain; materialism holds that mental phenomena are identical to neuronal phenomena; and idealism holds that only mental phenomena exist.
…Major changes to the brain such as strokes, injuries, or conditions such as dementia can clearly affect and impair our psychological functioning. And more minor changes — such as those caused by the ingestion of drugs — clearly have very marked psychological effects too. But we have to remember that this casual relationship works the other way around, and that changes to psychological functioning cause neurological changes. This has not only been illustrated by the above research into CBT, but also by a massive amount of research into meditation and mindfulness. The phenomenon of neuroplasticity shows this too — that the brain is continually in flux and changes according to how we use it…
…The brain and the mind exist in a symbiotic relationship, in which they both affect each other, but in which neither is entirely the other. As a result, to some extent, we have to treat them as distinct phenomena.
On another thread I shared the following from Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology that made me realize what little I know about the Holy Spirit:
In the realm of nature, it is the role of the Holy Spirit to give life to all animate creatures, whether on the ground or in the sky and sea, for “When you send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Ps. 104:30). Conversely, if God “should take back his spirit to himself, and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust” (Job 34:14 - 15). Here we see the role of the Spirit in the giving and sustaining of human and animal life.
Parallel with this is the role of the Holy Spirit to give us new life in regeneration. Jesus told Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew (John 3:6 – 7; cf. vv. 5, 8; 6:63; 2 Cor. 3:6). He also said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63 NASB; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6; Acts 10: 44 – 47; Titus 3:5).
Consistent with this life-giving function of the Holy Spirit is the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary his mother (Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). And on the day when Christ returns, it is the same Holy Spirit who will complete this life-giving work by giving new resurrection life to our mortal bodies: “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11).
The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?
~ ~ ~ ~
Alright…drum roll please…big finish…hey A/V guy in the back, show the brain map…forget about how spirit works with the mind – I’m fascinated to just look at this and try to understand how this mind / body symbiosis works…try chewing gum and looking at this picture at the same time
Very interesting post T-Bone. Quick question for now.
You wrote:, "The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?" For soul - are you referring to “soul life” (not sure anymore what this is) or “spirit life?” Your quotes above on the role of the Holy Spirit relates to the Spirit giving life.
thinking about ‘the great principle’, I came up with more questions than answers. The following is a shortened/revised version of ‘the great principle’ as best I remember it:
God (who is Spirit) - - > teaches His creation in you (your spirit) - - > your spirit teaches your mind - - > evidenced by what you do.
What is spirit?
What is the mind?
What is the difference between the brain and the mind?
Is there a difference between spirit and the mind?
~ ~ ~ ~
Though mind and brain are two terms that are understood to mean the same when used in the colloquial sense, there is a difference between mind and brain. There is certainly some difference between the two in their making. The brain is made of physical matter while the mind is not made of physical matter. To be more elaborate, the brain is made up of cells, blood vessels and nerves to name a few. Mind is nothing but the thought that resides in the brain. Apart from thoughts, the mind gives room for emotions, memories, and dreams as well.
Mind or mentality is usually contrasted with body, matter, or physicality. The issue of the nature of this contrast and specifically the relation between mind and brain is called the mind-body problem. Traditional viewpoints included dualism and idealism, which consider the mind to be non-physical…
…Psychologists such as Freud and James, and computer scientists such as Turing developed influential theories about the nature of the mind. The possibility of nonbiological minds is explored in the field of artificial intelligence, which works closely in relation with cybernetics and information theory to understand the ways in which information processing by nonbiological machines is comparable or different to mental phenomena in the human mind. The mind is also sometimes portrayed as the stream of consciousness where sense impressions and mental phenomena are constantly changing…
…Broadly speaking, mental faculties are the various functions of the mind, or things the mind can "do"…
…Thought is a mental act that allows humans to make sense of things in the world, and to represent and interpret them in ways that are significant, or which accord with their needs, attachments, goals, commitments, plans, ends, desires, etc. Thinking involves the symbolic or semiotic mediation of ideas or data, as when we form concepts, engage in problem solving, reasoning, and making decisions. Words that refer to similar concepts and processes include deliberation, cognition, ideation, discourse, and imagination…
…The mental phenomena brought about by the faculties of the mind have been categorized according to various distinctions. Important distinctions group mental phenomena together according to whether they are sensory, qualitative, propositional, intentional, conscious, occurrent or rational. These different distinctions result in overlapping categorizations. Some mental phenomena, like perception or bodily awareness, are sensory, i.e. based on the senses…
…Understanding the relationship between the brain and the mind – the mind–body problem – is one of the central issues in the history of philosophy, a challenging problem both philosophically and scientifically. There are three major philosophical schools of thought concerning the answer: dualism, materialism, and idealism. Dualism holds that the mind exists independently of the brain; materialism holds that mental phenomena are identical to neuronal phenomena; and idealism holds that only mental phenomena exist.
…Major changes to the brain such as strokes, injuries, or conditions such as dementia can clearly affect and impair our psychological functioning. And more minor changes — such as those caused by the ingestion of drugs — clearly have very marked psychological effects too. But we have to remember that this casual relationship works the other way around, and that changes to psychological functioning cause neurological changes. This has not only been illustrated by the above research into CBT, but also by a massive amount of research into meditation and mindfulness. The phenomenon of neuroplasticity shows this too — that the brain is continually in flux and changes according to how we use it…
…The brain and the mind exist in a symbiotic relationship, in which they both affect each other, but in which neither is entirely the other. As a result, to some extent, we have to treat them as distinct phenomena.
On another thread I shared the following from Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology that made me realize what little I know about the Holy Spirit:
In the realm of nature, it is the role of the Holy Spirit to give life to all animate creatures, whether on the ground or in the sky and sea, for “When you send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Ps. 104:30). Conversely, if God “should take back his spirit to himself, and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust” (Job 34:14 - 15). Here we see the role of the Spirit in the giving and sustaining of human and animal life.
Parallel with this is the role of the Holy Spirit to give us new life in regeneration. Jesus told Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew (John 3:6 – 7; cf. vv. 5, 8; 6:63; 2 Cor. 3:6). He also said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63 NASB; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6; Acts 10: 44 – 47; Titus 3:5).
Consistent with this life-giving function of the Holy Spirit is the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary his mother (Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). And on the day when Christ returns, it is the same Holy Spirit who will complete this life-giving work by giving new resurrection life to our mortal bodies: “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11).
The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?
~ ~ ~ ~
Alright…drum roll please…big finish…hey A/V guy in the back, show the brain map…forget about how spirit works with the mind – I’m fascinated to just look at this and try to understand how this mind / body symbiosis works…try chewing gum and looking at this picture at the same time
Out of the heart mouth speaks. Matthew 12:34
According to your diagram the heart is even shown!
See, body-soul people can't do basic anatomy because they don't know The Word!
The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Im not giving too much credence to wierwille's body,soul,spirit teachings these days. There is a difference between someone who has the spirit of Christ and someone who does not. I no longer believe that what is given in the new birth is what was lost in Eden. It's a new creation, and as such, is well....new...
wierwille's teaching on spirit should be chucked. It doesn't match scripture and you have to twist scripture to make it fit.
Very interesting post T-Bone. Quick question for now.
You wrote:, "The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?" For soul - are you referring to “soul life” (not sure anymore what this is) or “spirit life?” Your quotes above on the role of the Holy Spirit relates to the Spirit giving life.
Yeeeaaaaahhh…not sure…I’ve heard of soul life referred to as the life-force.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Im not giving too much credence to wierwille's body,soul,spirit teachings these days. There is a difference between someone who has the spirit of Christ and someone who does not. I no longer believe that what is given in the new birth is what was lost in Eden. It's a new creation, and as such, is well....new...
wierwille's teaching on spirit should be chucked. It doesn't match scripture and you have to twist scripture to make it fit.
Thanks OldSkool, Romans 8 is pretty clear about there being a spirit of Christ that is different from the spirit/soul of man. I agree with what you say about vp's teaching on spirit.
50 years ago, if you would have said to me “how would you like to learn about God and the Bible by following a hypocritical unabashed plagiarist delusional megalomaniac malignant narcissist money-grubbing chain-smoking drunkard misogynistic sexual predator who will exploit you until you’re all used up?”
I probably would have responded by saying “no thanks, if that’s what God and the Bible are all about, I’ll look elsewhere.”
Verbal legerdemain. That's what you just described and what WE ALL (who became followers) bought into, hook, line, and sinker. It's my belief every human is subject to being conned in some way or another.
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Charity
Reading twi's article both was emotionally and physically sickening. It so reinforced the doctrinal and practical errors that robbed believers of having a personal relationship with God and Jesus Chr
Bolshevik
Rocky
Who among you (or us) might be strategic thinkers? Was Victor Wierwille a strategic thinker? (not necessarily a rhetorical question) Is Mike a strategic thinker? (rhetorical questi
Charity
Thanks WordWolf. This is so insane I've got to think there's a miniscule chance he was playing with us. If not, it does give me reason to worry big time about him.
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chockfull
Yes he might be spinning us up in response to a criticism.
But it relates to this idea of “collaterals” or something as an entity or whole that I guess now we are making molten images of? So is the next statue for the lobby a bronze desk with “collaterals” on it?
I see that in the Way rag. Pumping up the RHST book and another VPW pistis teaching.
As a way to misdirect the idea from the golden image of “The Teacher” to a golden image of “The Teachings”
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T-Bone
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Twinky
Mike's said this on a number of occasions.
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Charity
50 years ago, I would have eagerly bought into this and scooped me up one of those d*mn bronze desks. Now, I would put a wooden plaque next to it which said "Jesus wept."
It' just all so sad when you compare what twi offers to the reality of Christianity being relationship based - not to a man or his books - but with God our Father and Christ our Lord.
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Charity
Then again, Jesus might have done something like a Matthew 21:12-13 if he saw this.
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”
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Charity
Thank you OldSkool.
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T-Bone
Hence the reason The Way International continues with the whitewash program - to conceal the unpleasant fact that it is STILL a pseudo-Christian organization…NOT based on the person and authority of the Lord Jesus Christ - but on the challenging counterfeit, wierwille!
50 years ago, if you would have said to me “how would you like to learn about God and the Bible by following a hypocritical unabashed plagiarist delusional megalomaniac malignant narcissist money-grubbing chain-smoking drunkard misogynistic sexual predator who will exploit you until you’re all used up?”
I probably would have responded by saying “no thanks, if that’s what God and the Bible are all about, I’ll look elsewhere.”
~ ~ ~ ~
There’s a time coming when all those who have misled others will have to answer for their crimes:
At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!
Matthew 18
Edited by T-BonePump up the volume
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OldSkool
Amen.
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Charity
As a follow up to what I wrote above, I believe the gift of holy spirit is not an "it" as twi would want us to believe. The spirit in us is alive and life giving. twi might argue that a tree is a living thing and we call it an "it," but the big difference is that you cannot converse with a tree nor have a personal relationship with one. They want to call the gift of holy spirit an "it" (like a car) so that they can insist that the spirit needs to be operated by us.
That leaves the Greek pronoun for "the spirit" being interpreted as "he" which it is in most Bible versions. I'm okay with that whether the spirit is a separate entity in addition to God and Jesus or not. What I do know is that because of the gift of holy spirit in us, we can have a 2-way relationship and fellowship with both God and Christ who are the source of all spiritual blessings.
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waysider
Please take your songbooks, now, and join me in singing "Great Is Thy Principle".
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So_crates
After that we'll sing "A Mighty Principle Is Our God."
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chockfull
So is Jesus then the “Lesser Principle” ?
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T-Bone
thinking about ‘the great principle’, I came up with more questions than answers. The following is a shortened/revised version
of ‘the great principle’ as best I remember it:
God (who is Spirit) - - > teaches His creation in you (your spirit) - - > your spirit teaches your mind - - > evidenced by what you do.
What is spirit?
What is the mind?
What is the difference between the brain and the mind?
Is there a difference between spirit and the mind?
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Though mind and brain are two terms that are understood to mean the same when used in the colloquial sense, there is a difference between mind and brain. There is certainly some difference between the two in their making. The brain is made of physical matter while the mind is not made of physical matter. To be more elaborate, the brain is made up of cells, blood vessels and nerves to name a few. Mind is nothing but the thought that resides in the brain. Apart from thoughts, the mind gives room for emotions, memories, and dreams as well.
From: Difference between Mind and Brain | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms
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Mind or mentality is usually contrasted with body, matter, or physicality. The issue of the nature of this contrast and specifically the relation between mind and brain is called the mind-body problem. Traditional viewpoints included dualism and idealism, which consider the mind to be non-physical…
…Psychologists such as Freud and James, and computer scientists such as Turing developed influential theories about the nature of the mind. The possibility of nonbiological minds is explored in the field of artificial intelligence, which works closely in relation with cybernetics and information theory to understand the ways in which information processing by nonbiological machines is comparable or different to mental phenomena in the human mind. The mind is also sometimes portrayed as the stream of consciousness where sense impressions and mental phenomena are constantly changing…
…Broadly speaking, mental faculties are the various functions of the mind, or things the mind can "do"…
…Thought is a mental act that allows humans to make sense of things in the world, and to represent and interpret them in ways that are significant, or which accord with their needs, attachments, goals, commitments, plans, ends, desires, etc. Thinking involves the symbolic or semiotic mediation of ideas or data, as when we form concepts, engage in problem solving, reasoning, and making decisions. Words that refer to similar concepts and processes include deliberation, cognition, ideation, discourse, and imagination…
…The mental phenomena brought about by the faculties of the mind have been categorized according to various distinctions. Important distinctions group mental phenomena together according to whether they are sensory, qualitative, propositional, intentional, conscious, occurrent or rational. These different distinctions result in overlapping categorizations. Some mental phenomena, like perception or bodily awareness, are sensory, i.e. based on the senses…
…Understanding the relationship between the brain and the mind – the mind–body problem – is one of the central issues in the history of philosophy, a challenging problem both philosophically and scientifically. There are three major philosophical schools of thought concerning the answer: dualism, materialism, and idealism. Dualism holds that the mind exists independently of the brain; materialism holds that mental phenomena are identical to neuronal phenomena; and idealism holds that only mental phenomena exist.
From: Mind - Wikipedia
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…Major changes to the brain such as strokes, injuries, or conditions such as dementia can clearly affect and impair our psychological functioning. And more minor changes — such as those caused by the ingestion of drugs — clearly have very marked psychological effects too. But we have to remember that this casual relationship works the other way around, and that changes to psychological functioning cause neurological changes. This has not only been illustrated by the above research into CBT, but also by a massive amount of research into meditation and mindfulness. The phenomenon of neuroplasticity shows this too — that the brain is continually in flux and changes according to how we use it…
…The brain and the mind exist in a symbiotic relationship, in which they both affect each other, but in which neither is entirely the other. As a result, to some extent, we have to treat them as distinct phenomena.
From: Why the Mind Is More Than the Brain | Psychology Today
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On another thread I shared the following from Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology that made me realize what little I know about the Holy Spirit:
In the realm of nature, it is the role of the Holy Spirit to give life to all animate creatures, whether on the ground or in the sky and sea, for “When you send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Ps. 104:30). Conversely, if God “should take back his spirit to himself, and gather to himself his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust” (Job 34:14 - 15). Here we see the role of the Spirit in the giving and sustaining of human and animal life.
Parallel with this is the role of the Holy Spirit to give us new life in regeneration. Jesus told Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew (John 3:6 – 7; cf. vv. 5, 8; 6:63; 2 Cor. 3:6). He also said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing” (John 6:63 NASB; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6; Acts 10: 44 – 47; Titus 3:5).
Consistent with this life-giving function of the Holy Spirit is the fact that it was the Holy Spirit who conceived Jesus in the womb of Mary his mother (Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). And on the day when Christ returns, it is the same Holy Spirit who will complete this life-giving work by giving new resurrection life to our mortal bodies: “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you” (Rom. 8:11).
From page 636 of Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine by Wayne Grudem
end of excerpts
The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?
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Alright…drum roll please…big finish…hey A/V guy in the back, show the brain map…forget about how spirit works with the mind – I’m fascinated to just look at this and try to understand how this mind / body symbiosis works…try chewing gum and looking at this picture at the same time
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Charity
Very interesting post T-Bone. Quick question for now.
You wrote:, "The spirit…the mind…the soul…are we talking about the same thing?" For soul - are you referring to “soul life” (not sure anymore what this is) or “spirit life?” Your quotes above on the role of the Holy Spirit relates to the Spirit giving life.
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Bolshevik
Out of the heart mouth speaks. Matthew 12:34
According to your diagram the heart is even shown!
See, body-soul people can't do basic anatomy because they don't know The Word!
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OldSkool
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Im not giving too much credence to wierwille's body,soul,spirit teachings these days. There is a difference between someone who has the spirit of Christ and someone who does not. I no longer believe that what is given in the new birth is what was lost in Eden. It's a new creation, and as such, is well....new...
wierwille's teaching on spirit should be chucked. It doesn't match scripture and you have to twist scripture to make it fit.
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Bolshevik
Power for Abundant Living . . . . their selling Power . . . the Gift
But leadership only has the Power that the followers Give them.
That's funny right thar.
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T-Bone
Yeeeaaaaahhh…not sure…I’ve heard of soul life referred to as the life-force.
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T-Bone
I’ve got another inspirational chart from the Digestive Health Clinic - it says to put on beloved bowels of mercy
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Bolshevik
Jeremiah 15:15,16 - The Movement of the Turd requires a the right diet and longsuffering.
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Charity
Thanks OldSkool, Romans 8 is pretty clear about there being a spirit of Christ that is different from the spirit/soul of man. I agree with what you say about vp's teaching on spirit.
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Rocky
Truth. Generally, the followers have been expertly CONNED and/or intimidated into doing so.
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Rocky
Verbal legerdemain. That's what you just described and what WE ALL (who became followers) bought into, hook, line, and sinker. It's my belief every human is subject to being conned in some way or another.
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