Previously I replied to your post by saying, "This is both a bit funny and sad at the same time." I've since been reading the "Questioning SIT" thread and I think I have a better understanding of what you are saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
While in twi, we might have had some initial doubts about things we learned or did (like SIT at the end of the class), but because there was so much hype to believe "all things vp", the doubts were quickly buried or they just fell by the wayside. From that point on, we believed (or pretended to believe) what was happening was real.
It's like so many things talked about on GSC, it's after one leaves twi with all its hype and the rose-colored glasses are finally removed that we are free to question once again whether things were true/real for us or not - like "did I fake speaking in tongues."
This is not a bit funny at all and though we might be sad, mad or hurt to realize we'd been tricked, cheated or deceived, I'm learning that truth does bring freedom.
There’s nothing to correct – I agree with all you say.
And just to be clear – I began the post by saying “Speaking for myself…” It’s just my viewpoint – sorry if I’ve caused any waves in anyone else’s belief system…I don’t think everyone faked speaking in tongues – and I especially believe what everyone has shared about SIT before being instructed in PFAL. That sounds like the real thing to me compared to running everyone through the PFAL mill.
This right here is a great point you made, Charity – and bears repeating:
“While in twi, we might have had some initial doubts about things we learned or did (like SIT at the end of the class), but because there was so much hype to believe "all things vp", the doubts were quickly buried or they just fell by the wayside.From that point on, we believed (or pretended to believe) what was happening was real.”
Earlier Chockfull mentioned that there’s other things that matter more – or something like that. SIT is not that big a deal to me from what I gathered studying I Corinthians 12 & 14 – mainly because the Holy Spirit is the one who distributes the gifts…another thing I just asked me wife to confirm our differences and she said she didn’t mind if I shared the following. She still speaks in tongues on occasion in her private prayers – sometimes picturing someone she is concerned about. She reminded me of when she was a teenager her church split over speaking in tongues…on small differences or preferences my wife says “You do you”.
We left TWI in ’86 and focused on our careers and family – and have no regrets about that. Since we don’t have to answer to any cult-leaders we do what works for our family. Most Sundays we’ll watch David Jeremiah as a family – we call it church TV. Once in a while we’ll pause the program and discuss something he brought up or even criticize a point we think he should have made clearer…we’re into live and let live…not going to waste any more time thinking we can change the world because we’ve got all the answers...God is going to have to put up with me being who I am - a cult-survivor - with a damaged faith and some battle scars to prove it...I feel I've got a full plate just looking after my family. That's what matters to me.
twi's GP = God, Who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit. Your spirit teaches your mind. Then your spiritual power becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act or as you speak out.
That people in twi operated the spirit was demonstrated when they were "called upon" by leaders to SIT and interpret or to prophesy which we immediately did.
I remember very little from the Intermediate or Advanced classes. How was it taught that we should operate the other 6 manifestations? Didn't we have to ask God or wait to receive a word of knowledge and a word of wisdom before we could use faith to do gifts of healings ,working of miracles and discerning of spirits.
So why could we always do the first 3 whenever somebody asked us in a believer's meeting but not the other 6 should somebody ask (like someone on their death bed)? This doesn't make sense if it's the same GP for all 9 all the time, or maybe I'm just missing something.
(This is assuming people are still called upon to manifest in a believer's meeting. Maybe they've done away with this.)
vpw wasn't as good at faking the other 6 as he was "the worship manifestations."
Yes me. I gave up my life as an assistant elf to Lo Shanta Claus leading a cymbal and gong orchestra and have moved on to more quieting things like music and pets.
Hi T-Bone, do you or anyone else know of someone who has had a different experience than the above when they first began to speak in tongues? Do you know of people who spoke in tongues following vp's instructions, but who later realized it wasn't genuine?
I don't think anyone in twi actually MEANT to fake it. All the social conformity led us to think it was ALL the "real deal." So, we did our best, for God and community.
There’s nothing to correct – I agree with all you say.
And just to be clear – I began the post by saying “Speaking for myself…” It’s just my viewpoint – sorry if I’ve caused any waves in anyone else’s belief system…I don’t think everyone faked speaking in tongues – and I especially believe what everyone has shared about SIT before being instructed in PFAL. That sounds like the real thing to me compared to running everyone through the PFAL mill.
This right here is a great point you made, Charity – and bears repeating:
“While in twi, we might have had some initial doubts about things we learned or did (like SIT at the end of the class), but because there was so much hype to believe "all things vp", the doubts were quickly buried or they just fell by the wayside.From that point on, we believed (or pretended to believe) what was happening was real.”
Earlier Chockfull mentioned that there’s other things that matter more – or something like that. SIT is not that big a deal to me from what I gathered studying I Corinthians 12 & 14 – mainly because the Holy Spirit is the one who distributes the gifts…another thing I just asked me wife to confirm our differences and she said she didn’t mind if I shared the following. She still speaks in tongues on occasion in her private prayers – sometimes picturing someone she is concerned about. She reminded me of when she was a teenager her church split over speaking in tongues…on small differences or preferences my wife says “You do you”.
We left TWI in ’86 and focused on our careers and family – and have no regrets about that. Since we don’t have to answer to any cult-leaders we do what works for our family. Most Sundays we’ll watch David Jeremiah as a family – we call it church TV. Once in a while we’ll pause the program and discuss something he brought up or even criticize a point we think he should have made clearer…we’re into live and let live…not going to waste any more time thinking we can change the world because we’ve got all the answers...God is going to have to put up with me being who I am - a cult-survivor - with a damaged faith and some battle scars to prove it...I feel I've got a full plate just looking after my family. That's what matters to me.
Reading the posts on the "Questioning SIT" thread, I find I'm able to use critical thinking more now than in the past. I think it's because I've learned to be aware of the cult-like thinking that was drilled into me while in twi that there was only one source for all truth, which was vp, and to question his teachings meant you were deceived and full of self-pride. Being on GSC will help prepare me for when I'm in actual face-to-face conversations with people where I tend to be more hesitant to speak my mind.
I still speak in tongues for people when I pray for them. I find that sometimes during the day the "words" pop up in my mind on their own and I will then continue to SIT for a bit. I'll keep listening to what others say but in the end, I know the choice to SIT will be mine - like your wife says, you do you!
I don't think anyone in twi actually MEANT to fake it. All the social conformity led us to think it was ALL the "real deal." So, we did our best, for God and community.
Social conformity.
Being like-minded of one accord.
The stick that stands up is pounded down.
Excellor sessions and the like downplay intuition by making a game of every doubt. Open nostrils are laughed away.
At the moment when instinct could be reflected on ideology is rubbed in by repetition.
Hi T-Bone, do you or anyone else know of someone who has had a different experience than the above when they first began to speak in tongues? Do you know of people who spoke in tongues following vp's instructions, but who later realized it wasn't genuine?
Yes. Me. First unintentionally faked it in July 1975. Took more than 40 decades for me to realize it was all BS.
I'm thinking it's really not a significant matter, but I put it in bold in the link.
I mean really? Does it matter at all?
No. I already acknowledged that it doesn't.
2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
It doesn't REALLY matter. Just a curiosity.
The search redirects to EXCELLENT. (Did you read the search results?) The AI thinks that was the intended word search, hence the redirection - because EXCELLER/EXCELLOR is not a word.
EXCELLENT has an etymological root in the Latin verb EXCELLERE - to excel. Close, but no Drambuie-dipped cigar.
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Charity
Reading twi's article both was emotionally and physically sickening. It so reinforced the doctrinal and practical errors that robbed believers of having a personal relationship with God and Jesus Chr
Bolshevik
Rocky
Who among you (or us) might be strategic thinkers? Was Victor Wierwille a strategic thinker? (not necessarily a rhetorical question) Is Mike a strategic thinker? (rhetorical questi
Nathan_Jr
Who invented it? Why?
Did anyone here besides MIKE "teach" excellor classes?
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chockfull
Lo shonta excellorosis!
Now we are Harry Pottering in the INT class!
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OldSkool
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T-Bone
There’s nothing to correct – I agree with all you say.
And just to be clear – I began the post by saying “Speaking for myself…” It’s just my viewpoint – sorry if I’ve caused any waves in anyone else’s belief system…I don’t think everyone faked speaking in tongues – and I especially believe what everyone has shared about SIT before being instructed in PFAL. That sounds like the real thing to me compared to running everyone through the PFAL mill.
This right here is a great point you made, Charity – and bears repeating:
“While in twi, we might have had some initial doubts about things we learned or did (like SIT at the end of the class), but because there was so much hype to believe "all things vp", the doubts were quickly buried or they just fell by the wayside. From that point on, we believed (or pretended to believe) what was happening was real.”
Earlier Chockfull mentioned that there’s other things that matter more – or something like that. SIT is not that big a deal to me from what I gathered studying I Corinthians 12 & 14 – mainly because the Holy Spirit is the one who distributes the gifts…another thing I just asked me wife to confirm our differences and she said she didn’t mind if I shared the following. She still speaks in tongues on occasion in her private prayers – sometimes picturing someone she is concerned about. She reminded me of when she was a teenager her church split over speaking in tongues…on small differences or preferences my wife says “You do you”.
We left TWI in ’86 and focused on our careers and family – and have no regrets about that. Since we don’t have to answer to any cult-leaders we do what works for our family. Most Sundays we’ll watch David Jeremiah as a family – we call it church TV. Once in a while we’ll pause the program and discuss something he brought up or even criticize a point we think he should have made clearer…we’re into live and let live…not going to waste any more time thinking we can change the world because we’ve got all the answers...God is going to have to put up with me being who I am - a cult-survivor - with a damaged faith and some battle scars to prove it...I feel I've got a full plate just looking after my family. That's what matters to me.
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WordWolf
vpw wasn't as good at faking the other 6 as he was "the worship manifestations."
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chockfull
Yes me. I gave up my life as an assistant elf to Lo Shanta Claus leading a cymbal and gong orchestra and have moved on to more quieting things like music and pets.
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WordWolf
I don't think anyone in twi actually MEANT to fake it. All the social conformity led us to think it was ALL the "real deal." So, we did our best, for God and community.
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waysider
It was a ministry wide practice.
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Charity
Reading the posts on the "Questioning SIT" thread, I find I'm able to use critical thinking more now than in the past. I think it's because I've learned to be aware of the cult-like thinking that was drilled into me while in twi that there was only one source for all truth, which was vp, and to question his teachings meant you were deceived and full of self-pride. Being on GSC will help prepare me for when I'm in actual face-to-face conversations with people where I tend to be more hesitant to speak my mind.
I still speak in tongues for people when I pray for them. I find that sometimes during the day the "words" pop up in my mind on their own and I will then continue to SIT for a bit. I'll keep listening to what others say but in the end, I know the choice to SIT will be mine - like your wife says, you do you!
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waysider
Well, in retrospect, he wasn't too good at faking those either.
Lo Shonta!
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Bolshevik
When you are asking to speak in tongues the alphabet . . . Or change your tongue. . . . Are you telling God to change the message?
How are you doing that, unless God can hear that which he ain't?
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waysider
Get The Message!
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Bolshevik
Social conformity.
Being like-minded of one accord.
The stick that stands up is pounded down.
Excellor sessions and the like downplay intuition by making a game of every doubt. Open nostrils are laughed away.
At the moment when instinct could be reflected on ideology is rubbed in by repetition.
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Bolshevik
Sounds so passive it makes a sad.
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Rocky
Was it really spelled "exceller?"
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Rocky
Yes. Me. First unintentionally faked it in July 1975. Took more than 40 decades for me to realize it was all BS.
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Nathan_Jr
Was it? Your link had neither exceller nor excellor.
A search on GSC yields these results:
Excellor - 159
Exceller - 14
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OldSkool
I believe this is the preferred spelling to one of their favorite snigglets.
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, OS.
So, it IS a sniglet. A totally made up word.
Do you know if victor was the inventor of this word? Or was it Uncle Harry? It doesn't REALLY matter. Just a curiosity.
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Rocky
Did you read the link?
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Exceller
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OldSkool
No idea...retemory was made up too...it's a contraction of sorts...retain in memory...spiritual...no?
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Nathan_Jr
I did. Exceller is in the search bar but not in the results.
Maybe I missed it. Would you please screen shot the entry for EXCELLER, if it is there?
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
I'm thinking it's really not a significant matter, but I put it in bold in the link.
Edited by RockyI mean really? Does it matter at all? But I searched (the internet) for both spellings. This one came up. I use DuckDuckGo for internet searches.
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Nathan_Jr
No. I already acknowledged that it doesn't.
The search redirects to EXCELLENT. (Did you read the search results?
) The AI thinks that was the intended word search, hence the redirection - because EXCELLER/EXCELLOR is not a word.
EXCELLENT has an etymological root in the Latin verb EXCELLERE - to excel. Close, but no Drambuie-dipped cigar.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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