In TWI, your cult experience was both UNIQUE and NOT unique

[Rocky]

In other threads on this forum, I've commented/posted how I believe TWI and the Children of God cult had numerous parallels. The differences as fundamentalist Christian cults between the two organizations are essentially a matter of degrees. 1) As illusory as Wierwille's Th.D. (or Ph.D.) was or wasn't, he had more education than David Berg (founder of COG); 2) the degree of debauchery and self-justifying rationalization in the practices and teachings of the two were parallel but different in how divergent from acceptable societal norms each practiced; 3) Wierwille apparently craved a higher degree of societal acceptance. Nevertheless, both organizations were largely engrossed in fleshly desires of the founders. 

Berg's sexual deviance was clearly more audacious AND garnered him and his cult more immediate notoriety. But BOTH were sexual deviants. Both used scripture to rationalize their interpretation of the bible to justify the practices used to satisfy their appetites.

Because the basis of each was religion with religious freedom being so fundamental to Western norms, journalistic reporting has had limited impact on the practices of each. Btw, these are not the only two such fundamentalist cults in operation, then or now. We also know legal system challenges to TWI practices (likely) suppressed some of the TWI sexual abuse. Nevertheless, I am skeptical cult control practices have been effectively eliminated.

For both TWI and COG, the key factor in raising societal awareness has (IMO) exclusively been the telling of personal and intimate stories of survivors.

For TWI, we are aware of using cyberspace to tell some of those stories. One of our own, Bolshevik, has adequately pointed out some of the unintended consequences of (Trancenet/Trancechat, I include those because they preceded Waydale), Waydale, and Greasespot Café. I acknowledge the "wild west" nature of cyberspace. In addition, certain journalistic and/or memoir accounts of people in TWI have, thankfully, raised awareness. Notably, Karl Kahler's The Cult That Snapped; Undertow by Charlene Edge; and Losing the Way by Kristen Skedgell. (Btw, does any reader have access to a copy of Kristen's book?) 

Have any of you thought, even in passing, that you might write a memoir of your time in TWI? 

 

[Twinky]

Too far along a different path now.  Better to look forward.  I'd rather write about what I've learned since.  Which has a root in what happened then - but indirectly.

As I've posted before, I now do a lot of work in gardens.  I have learned so much about God and learning what works and what doesn't.  How a plant can flourish in unsuitable locations and how it doesn't thrive in what looks as though it should be perfect.  I could easily write a book about that!

How tending a desired plant, pruning it, nourishing it, weeding, companion plants, giving support, etc, all help.  How to shape a plant, to show it at its best.  Plants' resilience.  Plants' fruitfulness, growth and dormancy periods.  Positioning so that none gets in the way of others but that they work well together in shape, colour and usefulness, despite there being many different plants.

The weeds: the things that'll spoil the desired plant by taking its nutrients, or entwining it and deforming it, or swamping it with foliage the desired plant can't cope with.  Other pests: insects, viruses, and such like.

Sometimes even the best(looking) locations sometimes just don't suit a plant.  Why?  I don't know, but the plant knows.  God knows.  Put it somewhere else and that might make all the difference.  Even sickly plants can be helped along, though they often won't ever do so well.

And then there are some plants, that no matter how much care and attention are given simply will not thrive.  They seem to get smaller the more they're helped.  Ultimately, the only solution is to remove them completely and put something else in place.

 

What sort of plant are you?  Are you in the right location, with enough nutrients, light, shade, moisture, and pollinators?

Or are you stunted because you don't have your needs adequately met?  Are your blooms, perfumes and fruits as delightful as they should be?

[chockfull]

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

Have any of you thought, even in passing, that you might write a memoir of your time in TWI? 

The memoir of my time in TWI exists here interwoven in threads.  While I appreciate those who have published works of their time in TWI for me in my path I choose to focus my public and post TWI life endeavors elsewhere.

I post here for recovery, public service, and connection.  

[Rocky]

5 minutes ago, chockfull said:

The memoir of my time in TWI exists here interwoven in threads.  While I appreciate those who have published works of their time in TWI for me in my path I choose to focus my public and post TWI life endeavors elsewhere.

I post here for recovery, public service, and connection.  

All worthy of your time and energy. Thank you for doing so.

[Rocky]

14 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Too far along a different path now.  Better to look forward.  I'd rather write about what I've learned since.  Which has a root in what happened then - but indirectly.

As I've posted before, I now do a lot of work in gardens.  I have learned so much about God and learning what works and what doesn't.  How a plant can flourish in unsuitable locations and how it doesn't thrive in what looks as though it should be perfect.  I could easily write a book about that!

How tending a desired plant, pruning it, nourishing it, weeding, companion plants, giving support, etc, all help.  How to shape a plant, to show it at its best.  Plants' resilience.  Plants' fruitfulness, growth and dormancy periods.  Positioning so that none gets in the way of others but that they work well together in shape, colour and usefulness, despite there being many different plants.

The weeds: the things that'll spoil the desired plant by taking its nutrients, or entwining it and deforming it, or swamping it with foliage the desired plant can't cope with.  Other pests: insects, viruses, and such like.

Sometimes even the best(looking) locations sometimes just don't suit a plant.  Why?  I don't know, but the plant knows.  God knows.  Put it somewhere else and that might make all the difference.  Even sickly plants can be helped along, though they often won't ever do so well.

And then there are some plants, that no matter how much care and attention are given simply will not thrive.  They seem to get smaller the more they're helped.  Ultimately, the only solution is to remove them completely and put something else in place.

 

What sort of plant are you?  Are you in the right location, with enough nutrients, light, shade, moisture, and pollinators?

Or are you stunted because you don't have your needs adequately met?  Are your blooms, perfumes and fruits as delightful as they should be?

Please write that book. In YOUR voice, from your perspective, incorporating your experience in gardening and other aspects of your life. I'm confident you could put your experience in Christian service since exiting TWI in that kind of frame. I have no doubt that piece of artistic expression WILL wonderfully reach and impact many lives. I'd also bet God can and will open the doors for you to make it a reality. Doing so can be the best mark your life overall will leave on society as a whole, other than how you actually reach individual people and touch them with God's love. 

[Rocky]

2 hours ago, Rocky said:

For both TWI and COG, the key factor in raising societal awareness has (IMO) exclusively been the telling of personal and intimate stories of survivors.

For TWI, we are aware of using cyberspace to tell some of those stories. One of our own, Bolshevik, has adequately pointed out some of the unintended consequences of (Trancenet/Trancechat, I include those because they preceded Waydale), Waydale, and Greasespot Café. I acknowledge the "wild west" nature of cyberspace. In addition, certain journalistic and/or memoir accounts of people in TWI have, thankfully, raised awareness. Notably, Karl Kahler's The Cult That Snapped; Undertow by Charlene Edge; and Losing the Way by Kristen Skedgell. (Btw, does any reader have access to a copy of Kristen's book?) 

Btw, Rose McGowan, in 2018 wrote and published her memoir Brave. From the back cover of Brave, she says, "Brave is the story of how I fought my way out of these cults [COG and Hollywood] and reclaimed my life. I want to help you do the same.

And in 2022, Daniella Mestyanek Young (COG survivor) published her memoir, UnCULTured. Janja Lalich, Ph.D. a professor (I think Charlene knows Dr Lalich) and coauthor of Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships said, "...Daniella educates us not only about cults but also about the similarities of coercive control in some of our most respected social institutions."

[T-Bone]

5 hours ago, Rocky said:

(Btw, does any reader have access to a copy of Kristen's book?) 

used copies are still available on Amazon

Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape: Skedgell, Kristen: 9780972002196: Amazon.com: Books

[Rocky]

36 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

used copies are still available on Amazon

Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape: Skedgell, Kristen: 9780972002196: Amazon.com: Books

For more than $30... and as high as $300.

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Rocky

[Bolshevik]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:37 PM, Rocky said:

In other threads on this forum, I've commented/posted how I believe TWI and the Children of God cult had numerous parallels. The differences as fundamentalist Christian cults between the two organizations are essentially a matter of degrees. 1) As illusory as Wierwille's Th.D. (or Ph.D.) was or wasn't, he had more education than David Berg (founder of COG); 2) the degree of debauchery and self-justifying rationalization in the practices and teachings of the two were parallel but different in how divergent from acceptable societal norms each practiced; 3) Wierwille apparently craved a higher degree of societal acceptance. Nevertheless, both organizations were largely engrossed in fleshly desires of the founders. 

Berg's sexual deviance was clearly more audacious AND garnered him and his cult more immediate notoriety. But BOTH were sexual deviants. Both used scripture to rationalize their interpretation of the bible to justify the practices used to satisfy their appetites.

Because the basis of each was religion with religious freedom being so fundamental to Western norms, journalistic reporting has had limited impact on the practices of each. Btw, these are not the only two such fundamentalist cults in operation, then or now. We also know legal system challenges to TWI practices (likely) suppressed some of the TWI sexual abuse. Nevertheless, I am skeptical cult control practices have been effectively eliminated.

For both TWI and COG, the key factor in raising societal awareness has (IMO) exclusively been the telling of personal and intimate stories of survivors.

For TWI, we are aware of using cyberspace to tell some of those stories. One of our own, Bolshevik, has adequately pointed out some of the unintended consequences of (Trancenet/Trancechat, I include those because they preceded Waydale), Waydale, and Greasespot Café. I acknowledge the "wild west" nature of cyberspace. In addition, certain journalistic and/or memoir accounts of people in TWI have, thankfully, raised awareness. Notably, Karl Kahler's The Cult That Snapped; Undertow by Charlene Edge; and Losing the Way by Kristen Skedgell. (Btw, does any reader have access to a copy of Kristen's book?) 

Have any of you thought, even in passing, that you might write a memoir of your time in TWI? 

 

 

I'm also of the opinion the meaning of a "sexual deviant" changes over the years.  The practices in "cults" are less shocking as time has gone by.  Because what goes on outside of cults is often more shocking.