Weren't the intentions defined? Thirty-six hours later, who could remember what they were.
It's like the origin of San Diego. No one REALLY knows what it means.
Ive had those classes so many times I lost count and I still cant tell you what the goals are. I mean theres the mindless maxims, such as "maximum learning in minumum time"....or they grab a verse and say the classes are so the the man of God may be throughly furnished, or fully equipped like an old ship ready to set sail....all meaningless and the true purpse is never really stated..which would be to indoctrinate people to the point that they start signiing new people up for classes. A pyramid scheme cant survive without fresh fish.
Peirce proposes four methods of fixing belief -- how we know what we believe is true. Authority is one of the methods. It's not the strongest nor most reliable way to believe something is true, partly because the risk of the fallacy of Ad Verecundiam .
But I think Peirce even suggests that appealing to legitimate authority is insufficient.
Thanks Rocky, Bolsh, Nathan_Jr....I gotta say that when the shoe fits. I mean at the end of the day when a persons questions remained unanswered it was not uncommon to let people know that Dr. knows best because he is a Dr. Kinda gets back to the idea that
A - experts know best
B - You are not an expert so you cant refute what they know
C - experts know best
Quoting John Jeudes who ties this concept straight back to wierille....
From Wierwilles Way with the Word - by John Jeudes
Victor Paul Wierwille is the founder and president of The Way Inter-
national. Although The Way acknowledges that new light may change its
present teaching, it now considers Dr. Wierwille to be authoritative and
infallible in dividing God’s Word. Wierwille is venerated for his four
decades of “Biblical research and teaching.” His followers credit him
with teaching “the depth, solidity and dynamic of the greatness of the
Word of God” in the foundation class of The Way, called Power for
Abundant Living.1
To support his doctrine, Wierwille claims that one day in 1942 God the
Father spoke to him audibly,
He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since
the first century if I would teach it to others.2
He now claims that his “tape and film classes are taught according to the
accuracy of God’s Word.”3
The group enthusiastically calls him “Dr.” although the biographical
front matter in his books typically stop short of citing the source of this
degree, which is Pikes Peak Bible Seminary, a “reputed degree mill.”
Twinky in red fonts below
My responses in purple fonts
Mike said: I am serious about: a future Reparations Department at HQ, Never going to happen. And how would they contact everyone? But if they cared to make reparations to me, for the substantial damage they've caused to my life, they can contact me via this site. -First off: reparations doesn’t mean “money” here. It means “repairs.” In an exceptional case $ may be considered.
They wouldn’t have to contact anyone. Just be open to receive e-mails.
I am just picturing someone at HQ who receives e-mails from old grads, each with their story of an specific injustice, so that it can be logged in, and processed and sorted and learned from.
Some of them might be easily taken care of, and some may be very difficult.Of course the lawyers would object, and understandably so. But the lawyers could be just one influence on whoever calls the legal shots. If the idea is hammered out sufficiently, and shown to be in TWI-4’s best interests, a trial run could be done with samples from here, before publicly announcing it.
Twinky, some people may get an e-mail at least expressing agreement and sympathy for substantial damage. Some things might be a little repairable. At least getting to tell your story to them, TWI-4, could be therapeutic.
I assure you, they won’t contact you…. Yet.We’re a long way away from that. But we can imagineer things, and some ideas may take off. Maybe if they read it here, they would respond.It would have to be written politely, of course.Agape style.
*/*/*/*/*
a PFAL Grad’s Bill of Rights, Like, not being molested? Like access to the real TWI accounts? Like being treated like the head honchos at TWI, inasmuch as TWI ceases to be respecters of persons? Will the special places to live be occupied by normal people? Will head honchos move into Founders Hall and live four to a room, and have to move to the adjacent room after 4 months? Please don’t hate me for this, but I was aiming at something far different. It almost funny how different we are thinking.
By a "Grad’s Bill of Rights" I meant a better and an explicitly spelled out set of terms as to what some of us used to call the “Green Card Guarantee.”
The Green Card Guarantee refers to what it said on the Green Card, that after graduating we could take the class free of charge, all the way up to the Return of Christ.Well we proPFAL grads got gypped !! After 1986 ,TWI-2 put up barbed wires around all the classes and we "outies" could not easily attend the classes.
And then in 1995, they stopped running the class. Ever since then it’s been a shell game of classes, and who is a grad of what is pretty confused.
So the Green Card Guarantee has been stepped on and obliterated. My request to the Reparations Department is that they get the machinery up and running tohammer out some kind of Grad’s Bill of Rights, to repair the broken Green Card Guarantee.
*/*/*/*
Engineering Change Notices,That's, EGREGIOUS COUNTERFEIT NOTICES, isn't it? -No, ECN’s are what should happen in any company with a complex and ever changing product.
ECNs are the OPPOSITE of shoving some error under the rug, and fixing it quietly while no one is noticing, but pretending the error never happened.
Some might call ECNs the opposite of whitewashing.
ECNs put out publicly, in easy to recognized language, what the old policy was before, and what the new policy is now.
*/*/**/*/*
an unvarnished and balanced history of TWI written,Make sure you include the genuine record as told here.-Getting into such a history, all the stories and all the intensity of them, probably wont happen in our lifetime.But before all us first-hand witnesses die off, our stories should be collected. And by “our stories” I mean the positive ones also, and the ones from proPFAL grads also. But there should be a place where people with damage and hurt can write up and deposit their story in an appropriate loving way.
*/*/*/*/*
and I am serious about helping other grads sort out between the good and the bad that we received from TWI.Just send them here. Remind me, Mike: how many people have you actually brought to this site, to help them sort out the good from the bad? -Just the opposite, over the 20 years here about 12 people have contacted me by PM, who were proPFAL and trying to sort things out.Heck, I MYSELF am still sorting a few things out.
I think the days when TWI was grinding people up in the Corps, and the Corps were grinding people up on the field are over.At least it’s over for sure in the local area here and what they tell me about other areas, and HQ, and Africa.
As TWI is not in fear of attack, like they were in TWI-2 and TWI-3, they are feeling much more friendly than anything I’ve seen in decades.I would regularly call HQ ever since leaving in 1988, just to see if they changed. For decades they did not change, and then 5 years ago on the field here I started seeing changes. Some communication is taking place where there was none for 38 years.
I am just picturing someone at HQ who receives e-mails from old grads, each with their story of an specific injustice, so that it can be logged in, and processed and sorted and learned from.
Oh...you think your gonna fix hq with the law of believing....lol
Oh...you think your gonna fix hq with the law of believing....lol
Not really.
I know I am trying to help them fix some things.
There are many items to deal with here, and I am thinking up and talking up any and all that I can come up with. If just one of these ideas works that would mean great progress. Maybe someone else will be inspired by my failed attempts and find a way to make some of it work.
You can't make someone fix something if they don't want to fix it.
There's a new set of "someones" there now. They are not committed to the same attitudes their predecessors were. I think they want to fix it, especially since most of the garbage happened there long ago.
I've got a question for you to ponder: do YOU want to see things fixed there ??? Or would you like it to stay broken there so that you have a mission of complaining against it here?
I see a conflict of interest here. It is similar to the conflict of interest that specially trained drug cops face, should they start winning the war on drugs. It means they are out of a job. Similarly, there's the doctor who doesn't have much motivation to see his patient get totally healed, and then become a former customer.
Do you want to see TWI want to change? Or do you prefer they stay the target of vitriol here? Are you and the others more into the vitriol than in a someday solution, or partial solutions?
This is a false dilemma. It assumes these are the only 2 options possible.
I framed it to stimulate thoughts in the direction of possible change at TWI-4. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of the intractable problems just melted away from the changing of the guard there?
There are many items to deal with here, and I am thinking up and talking up any and all that I can come up with. If just one of these ideas works that would mean great progress. Maybe someone else will be inspired by my failed attempts and find a way to make some of it work.
For someone who claims to have operated an atom smasher (these days they're called particle colliders) and having been a stand up comedian, you certainly are naive about life.
Take it from someone who fought the system to become a student a major university. Systems don't change, they just make exceptions. Barring the possibility of an exception, the get rid of the problem. The problem, as in the person complaining.
Refresh my memory, what happened to all those people writing papers about Saint Vic's escapades? Was anybody within the ministry inspired by those people examples? Or did they learn that the only way you stay in the ministry was by keeping your head down and your mouth shut?
Do I think your going to file these ECNs? No, I think for you it's just talk. If you had freedom of speech in the ministry, you'd be applying your balanced view bull at twig also. But we both know what'll happen the second you start spouting off about Saint Vic's escapades, don't we?
Wouldn't it be interesting if they simply folded up the tent and went out of business?
Think it thru what that would mean here at GSC, even though them folding is highly unlikely.
But I am not dreaming that far or extreme.
I see some change and partial concessions as very likely in the coming years. I have already seen MAJOR changes in their willingness to communicate, and to drop the massive suspicions that have crippled them for decades.
One thing I don't want to see happen is all of us older grads dying off with no solutions for any of the old problems. That would be THE major shoving of problems under the rug: just waiting for the decline and passing away of all the first-hand witnesses. That process is already underway.
There's a new set of "someones" there now. They are not committed to the same attitudes their predecessors were. I think they want to fix it, especially since most of the garbage happened there long ago.
I've got a question for you to ponder: do YOU want to see things fixed there ??? Or would you like it to stay broken there so that you have a mission of complaining against it here?
I see a conflict of interest here. It is similar to the conflict of interest that specially trained drug cops face, should they start winning the war on drugs. It means they are out of a job. Similarly, there's the doctor who doesn't have much motivation to see his patient get totally healed, and then become a former customer.
Do you want to see TWI want to change? Or do you prefer they stay the target of vitriol here? Are you and the others more into the vitriol than in a someday solution, or partial solutions?
The new set of someone’s marked and avoided their Corps brethren for suggesting term limits, applications and limitations on power for the top leadership. It’s interesting that you either don’t seem to know this in spite of it being brought up here more than once or you are choosing to ignore the fact to prefer getting your whitewashed version out there more often.
The conflict of interest you mention here is the whitewashed version verses “the other side of the story” which is not available from mainstream sources because of the whitewash.
I wanted to see TWI change when I wasted 20 years of my life supporting them “witnessing the class” and sending them all my spare money.
Now I want to witness Christ as opposed to a fake agricultural business.
You describing what goes on here as vitriol and the target of vitriol is the problem. You see people were systematically affected by TWI negatively. For them to describe this treatment in a negative light and have it labeled as vitriol is just one more way to victim blame. As taught in the law of believing in PFAL.
Think it thru what that would mean here at GSC, even though them folding is highly unlikely.
It would mean they came to the truth of the realization that worshipping an idol of VPW is not a viable future for a Christian ministry.
It would mean they discarded the old wineskin and were free to seek a new one.
It would mean no longer being handcuffed to Baker and Hostetler.
It would mean they could tell the truth about the past because they aren’t afraid of the org getting sued.
It would mean they are humble enough to see they have no education on the things they are calling themselves expert on and allow them to go to school and actually attend a class that is visible on a transcript.
It would mean starting new endeavors with others not bound to their same past.
It also would probably mean the end of this website. Which would be fine.
I framed it to stimulate thoughts in the direction of possible change at TWI-4. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of the intractable problems just melted away from the changing of the guard there?
Yes it would be interesting. It was also interesting to watch the movie “Men Who Stare At Goats” and consider the possibility of astral travel through walls.
Each is about equally as likely. And has an equal amount of supporting evidence.
But the cool thing about the internet is we don’t have to wonder. It is immediately and instantly available to tell people about the changes they have made themselves. From whatever platform they speak from.
Do you have links to primary sources like videos where any member of the directors or top leadership mentions this?
The new set of someone’s marked and avoided their Corps brethren for suggesting term limits, applications and limitations on power for the top leadership. It’s interesting that you either don’t seem to know this in spite of it being brought up here more than once or you are choosing to ignore the fact...
Actually I have heard that a little, but thought it happened under Rosalie's reign in TWI-3. Officers in her administration may not have been free to resist her will.
I have very little knowledge of what exactly went on in RnR. Wasn't that about 5 years ago already? My impression is that crushing that RnR challenge was the last gasp of TWI-3.
Let's see how TWI-4 handles the RnR people in the next year. Maybe there will be some reconciliation there as TWI-4 gets its bearings. I don't envy the situation TWI-4 inherited. They could use our prayers in rising above it.
Maybe there will be some reconciliation there as TWI-4 gets its bearings. I don't envy the situation TWI-4 inherited. They could use our prayers in rising above it.
And maybe donkeys will fly out of our butts.
If a system has no incentive to change, it doesn't. Now, other then the BOD not getting their salaries and no more advances in the Caribbean due to less ABS, what incentive does the Way have to change.
As long as they're taking in the greenbacks they don't care.
Actually I have heard that a little, but thought it happened under Rosalie's reign in TWI-3. Officers in her administration may not have been free to resist her will.
I have very little knowledge of what exactly went on in RnR. Wasn't that about 5 years ago already? My impression is that crushing that RnR challenge was the last gasp of TWI-3.
Let's see how TWI-4 handles the RnR people in the next year. Maybe there will be some reconciliation there as TWI-4 gets its bearings. I don't envy the situation TWI-4 inherited. They could use our prayers in rising above it.
They along with you are in my prayers that the idolatrous grasp that a charlatan had on you may diminish.
I see the opposite in evidence though.
Doubled down on the original class. New teachers have no new sources or education.
Same false Way tree pattern.
Its more like OW-2, OW-3, OW-4. Old wineskin versions pouring from one cracked one to the next.
Which wineskin do you prefer the taste out of? You know the 3 drops of remaining liquid that hasn’t leaked out yet?
The moon could fall out of the sky while we sleep and squash us all flatter that the winner of a Twiggy lookalike contest. Probably not likely to happen, though.
For them to describe this treatment in a negative light and have it labeled as vitriol is just one more way to victim blame. As taught in the law of believing in PFAL.
I am NOT using the word "vitrio"l to describe how I see the victims telling their stories of being hurt here.
I used the word "vitriol" to describe the attitudes in the most active posters, not the real victim's stories. I also used the word "vitriol" to describe how I am treated when I am trying to introduce some accuracy, balance, and workable solutions.
I am not blaming victims for having bad feelings. That is understandable, and I would never blame them, nor scold them for being too harsh. When people are trying to recover from those kinds of things great love and gentleness must be used.
Now it gets very complicated when a victim turns around and starts trying to use their situation as a lever of influence in hammering out a new theology to oppose what we learned in PFAL. I am in a difficult position with such a very vocal and influential victim. Do I try to help them heal, or do I debate their theology? I have that problem some with Charlene, and I'm guessing I would have it much more intensely with Kristen.
Are any of the high volume posters still in the position of being real victims of damage? I get the impression you folks are over it for your own personal grudges, and you are fighting for the possibly much greater losses of some others.
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waysider
I guess I just don't understand why he would even need this degree, seeing as how God gave him access to all the secrets of the universe anyhow.
waysider
Allow me to state this in the simplest way possible,. This statement is simply false. Error after error after error has been scrutinized here. Thread upon thread upon thread has dissected these errors
chockfull
It would mean they came to the truth of the realization that worshipping an idol of VPW is not a viable future for a Christian ministry. It would mean they discarded the old wineskin and were fre
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OldSkool
Ive had those classes so many times I lost count and I still cant tell you what the goals are. I mean theres the mindless maxims, such as "maximum learning in minumum time"....or they grab a verse and say the classes are so the the man of God may be throughly furnished, or fully equipped like an old ship ready to set sail....all meaningless and the true purpse is never really stated..which would be to indoctrinate people to the point that they start signiing new people up for classes. A pyramid scheme cant survive without fresh fish.
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OldSkool
Thanks Rocky!
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OldSkool
Thanks Rocky, Bolsh, Nathan_Jr....I gotta say that when the shoe fits. I mean at the end of the day when a persons questions remained unanswered it was not uncommon to let people know that Dr. knows best because he is a Dr. Kinda gets back to the idea that
A - experts know best
B - You are not an expert so you cant refute what they know
C - experts know best
Quoting John Jeudes who ties this concept straight back to wierille....
https://cloud.disroot.org/s/dq9wTyr3bEDJLof
From Wierwilles Way with the Word - by John Jeudes
Victor Paul Wierwille is the founder and president of The Way Inter-
Edited by OldSkoolnational. Although The Way acknowledges that new light may change its
present teaching, it now considers Dr. Wierwille to be authoritative and
infallible in dividing God’s Word. Wierwille is venerated for his four
decades of “Biblical research and teaching.” His followers credit him
with teaching “the depth, solidity and dynamic of the greatness of the
Word of God” in the foundation class of The Way, called Power for
Abundant Living.1
To support his doctrine, Wierwille claims that one day in 1942 God the
Father spoke to him audibly,
He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since
the first century if I would teach it to others.2
He now claims that his “tape and film classes are taught according to the
accuracy of God’s Word.”3
The group enthusiastically calls him “Dr.” although the biographical
front matter in his books typically stop short of citing the source of this
degree, which is Pikes Peak Bible Seminary, a “reputed degree mill.”
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Mike
Twinky in red fonts below
My responses in purple fonts
Mike said:
I am serious about: a future Reparations Department at HQ, Never going to happen. And how would they contact everyone? But if they cared to make reparations to me, for the substantial damage they've caused to my life, they can contact me via this site.
-First off: reparations doesn’t mean “money” here. It means “repairs.” In an exceptional case $ may be considered.
They wouldn’t have to contact anyone. Just be open to receive e-mails.
I am just picturing someone at HQ who receives e-mails from old grads, each with their story of an specific injustice, so that it can be logged in, and processed and sorted and learned from.
Some of them might be easily taken care of, and some may be very difficult. Of course the lawyers would object, and understandably so. But the lawyers could be just one influence on whoever calls the legal shots. If the idea is hammered out sufficiently, and shown to be in TWI-4’s best interests, a trial run could be done with samples from here, before publicly announcing it.
Twinky, some people may get an e-mail at least expressing agreement and sympathy for substantial damage. Some things might be a little repairable. At least getting to tell your story to them, TWI-4, could be therapeutic.
I assure you, they won’t contact you…. Yet. We’re a long way away from that. But we can imagineer things, and some ideas may take off. Maybe if they read it here, they would respond. It would have to be written politely, of course. Agape style.
*/*/*/*/*
a PFAL Grad’s Bill of Rights, Like, not being molested? Like access to the real TWI accounts? Like being treated like the head honchos at TWI, inasmuch as TWI ceases to be respecters of persons? Will the special places to live be occupied by normal people? Will head honchos move into Founders Hall and live four to a room, and have to move to the adjacent room after 4 months?
Please don’t hate me for this, but I was aiming at something far different. It almost funny how different we are thinking.
By a "Grad’s Bill of Rights" I meant a better and an explicitly spelled out set of terms as to what some of us used to call the “Green Card Guarantee.”
The Green Card Guarantee refers to what it said on the Green Card, that after graduating we could take the class free of charge, all the way up to the Return of Christ. Well we proPFAL grads got gypped !! After 1986 ,TWI-2 put up barbed wires around all the classes and we "outies" could not easily attend the classes.
And then in 1995, they stopped running the class. Ever since then it’s been a shell game of classes, and who is a grad of what is pretty confused.
So the Green Card Guarantee has been stepped on and obliterated. My request to the Reparations Department is that they get the machinery up and running to hammer out some kind of Grad’s Bill of Rights, to repair the broken Green Card Guarantee.
*/*/*/*
Engineering Change Notices, That's, EGREGIOUS COUNTERFEIT NOTICES, isn't it?
-No, ECN’s are what should happen in any company with a complex and ever changing product.
ECNs are the OPPOSITE of shoving some error under the rug, and fixing it quietly while no one is noticing, but pretending the error never happened.
Some might call ECNs the opposite of whitewashing.
ECNs put out publicly, in easy to recognized language, what the old policy was before, and what the new policy is now.
*/*/**/*/*
an unvarnished and balanced history of TWI written, Make sure you include the genuine record as told here. -Getting into such a history, all the stories and all the intensity of them, probably wont happen in our lifetime. But before all us first-hand witnesses die off, our stories should be collected. And by “our stories” I mean the positive ones also, and the ones from proPFAL grads also. But there should be a place where people with damage and hurt can write up and deposit their story in an appropriate loving way.
*/*/*/*/*
and I am serious about helping other grads sort out between the good and the bad that we received from TWI. Just send them here. Remind me, Mike: how many people have you actually brought to this site, to help them sort out the good from the bad?
-Just the opposite, over the 20 years here about 12 people have contacted me by PM, who were proPFAL and trying to sort things out. Heck, I MYSELF am still sorting a few things out.
I think the days when TWI was grinding people up in the Corps, and the Corps were grinding people up on the field are over. At least it’s over for sure in the local area here and what they tell me about other areas, and HQ, and Africa.
As TWI is not in fear of attack, like they were in TWI-2 and TWI-3, they are feeling much more friendly than anything I’ve seen in decades. I would regularly call HQ ever since leaving in 1988, just to see if they changed. For decades they did not change, and then 5 years ago on the field here I started seeing changes. Some communication is taking place where there was none for 38 years.
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Nathan_Jr
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OldSkool
Oh...you think your gonna fix hq with the law of believing....lol
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Mike
Not really.
I know I am trying to help them fix some things.
There are many items to deal with here, and I am thinking up and talking up any and all that I can come up with. If just one of these ideas works that would mean great progress. Maybe someone else will be inspired by my failed attempts and find a way to make some of it work.
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waysider
You can't make someone fix something if they don't want to fix it.
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Mike
There's a new set of "someones" there now. They are not committed to the same attitudes their predecessors were. I think they want to fix it, especially since most of the garbage happened there long ago.
I've got a question for you to ponder: do YOU want to see things fixed there ??? Or would you like it to stay broken there so that you have a mission of complaining against it here?
I see a conflict of interest here. It is similar to the conflict of interest that specially trained drug cops face, should they start winning the war on drugs. It means they are out of a job. Similarly, there's the doctor who doesn't have much motivation to see his patient get totally healed, and then become a former customer.
Do you want to see TWI want to change? Or do you prefer they stay the target of vitriol here? Are you and the others more into the vitriol than in a someday solution, or partial solutions?
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waysider
This is a false dilemma. It assumes these are the only 2 options possible.
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Mike
I framed it to stimulate thoughts in the direction of possible change at TWI-4. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of the intractable problems just melted away from the changing of the guard there?
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waysider
Wouldn't it be interesting if they simply folded up the tent and went out of business?
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So_crates
For someone who claims to have operated an atom smasher (these days they're called particle colliders) and having been a stand up comedian, you certainly are naive about life.
Take it from someone who fought the system to become a student a major university. Systems don't change, they just make exceptions. Barring the possibility of an exception, the get rid of the problem. The problem, as in the person complaining.
Refresh my memory, what happened to all those people writing papers about Saint Vic's escapades? Was anybody within the ministry inspired by those people examples? Or did they learn that the only way you stay in the ministry was by keeping your head down and your mouth shut?
Do I think your going to file these ECNs? No, I think for you it's just talk. If you had freedom of speech in the ministry, you'd be applying your balanced view bull at twig also. But we both know what'll happen the second you start spouting off about Saint Vic's escapades, don't we?
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Mike
Think it thru what that would mean here at GSC, even though them folding is highly unlikely.
But I am not dreaming that far or extreme.
I see some change and partial concessions as very likely in the coming years. I have already seen MAJOR changes in their willingness to communicate, and to drop the massive suspicions that have crippled them for decades.
One thing I don't want to see happen is all of us older grads dying off with no solutions for any of the old problems. That would be THE major shoving of problems under the rug: just waiting for the decline and passing away of all the first-hand witnesses. That process is already underway.
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chockfull
The new set of someone’s marked and avoided their Corps brethren for suggesting term limits, applications and limitations on power for the top leadership. It’s interesting that you either don’t seem to know this in spite of it being brought up here more than once or you are choosing to ignore the fact to prefer getting your whitewashed version out there more often.
The conflict of interest you mention here is the whitewashed version verses “the other side of the story” which is not available from mainstream sources because of the whitewash.
I wanted to see TWI change when I wasted 20 years of my life supporting them “witnessing the class” and sending them all my spare money.
Now I want to witness Christ as opposed to a fake agricultural business.
You describing what goes on here as vitriol and the target of vitriol is the problem. You see people were systematically affected by TWI negatively. For them to describe this treatment in a negative light and have it labeled as vitriol is just one more way to victim blame. As taught in the law of believing in PFAL.
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waysider
I just posted one possible solution. Did you not read it?
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chockfull
It would mean they came to the truth of the realization that worshipping an idol of VPW is not a viable future for a Christian ministry.
It would mean they discarded the old wineskin and were free to seek a new one.
It would mean no longer being handcuffed to Baker and Hostetler.
It would mean they could tell the truth about the past because they aren’t afraid of the org getting sued.
It would mean they are humble enough to see they have no education on the things they are calling themselves expert on and allow them to go to school and actually attend a class that is visible on a transcript.
It would mean starting new endeavors with others not bound to their same past.
It also would probably mean the end of this website. Which would be fine.
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chockfull
Yes it would be interesting. It was also interesting to watch the movie “Men Who Stare At Goats” and consider the possibility of astral travel through walls.
Each is about equally as likely. And has an equal amount of supporting evidence.
But the cool thing about the internet is we don’t have to wonder. It is immediately and instantly available to tell people about the changes they have made themselves. From whatever platform they speak from.
Do you have links to primary sources like videos where any member of the directors or top leadership mentions this?
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So_crates
But, because all the previous statements will never happen, we know this will never happen.
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Mike
Actually I have heard that a little, but thought it happened under Rosalie's reign in TWI-3. Officers in her administration may not have been free to resist her will.
I have very little knowledge of what exactly went on in RnR. Wasn't that about 5 years ago already? My impression is that crushing that RnR challenge was the last gasp of TWI-3.
Let's see how TWI-4 handles the RnR people in the next year. Maybe there will be some reconciliation there as TWI-4 gets its bearings. I don't envy the situation TWI-4 inherited. They could use our prayers in rising above it.
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So_crates
And maybe donkeys will fly out of our butts.
If a system has no incentive to change, it doesn't. Now, other then the BOD not getting their salaries and no more advances in the Caribbean due to less ABS, what incentive does the Way have to change.
As long as they're taking in the greenbacks they don't care.
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chockfull
They along with you are in my prayers that the idolatrous grasp that a charlatan had on you may diminish.
I see the opposite in evidence though.
Doubled down on the original class. New teachers have no new sources or education.
Same false Way tree pattern.
Its more like OW-2, OW-3, OW-4. Old wineskin versions pouring from one cracked one to the next.
Which wineskin do you prefer the taste out of? You know the 3 drops of remaining liquid that hasn’t leaked out yet?
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waysider
The moon could fall out of the sky while we sleep and squash us all flatter that the winner of a Twiggy lookalike contest. Probably not likely to happen, though.
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Mike
I am NOT using the word "vitrio"l to describe how I see the victims telling their stories of being hurt here.
I used the word "vitriol" to describe the attitudes in the most active posters, not the real victim's stories. I also used the word "vitriol" to describe how I am treated when I am trying to introduce some accuracy, balance, and workable solutions.
I am not blaming victims for having bad feelings. That is understandable, and I would never blame them, nor scold them for being too harsh. When people are trying to recover from those kinds of things great love and gentleness must be used.
Now it gets very complicated when a victim turns around and starts trying to use their situation as a lever of influence in hammering out a new theology to oppose what we learned in PFAL. I am in a difficult position with such a very vocal and influential victim. Do I try to help them heal, or do I debate their theology? I have that problem some with Charlene, and I'm guessing I would have it much more intensely with Kristen.
Are any of the high volume posters still in the position of being real victims of damage? I get the impression you folks are over it for your own personal grudges, and you are fighting for the possibly much greater losses of some others.
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