But I was out of it from 1987 till now. I had time to clear my head.
You were out of it, but it was not out of you. You may have had lots of time TO clear your head, but instead you doubled-down on twi. Still plugged in.
I gave up trying to help him understand that the so called new leadership is the same old leadership with new faces...nothing of substance will change and they DO NOT want to hear from your average field believers...that way corps superiority complex keeps the directors from actuall listening to people in any meaningful way.
Yeah that’s not his mission. His mission is to tell all of us that they are really cool and loving and laid back and any evil they did was because they were under duress.
So his mission is pretty much like if you imagined one of them or their lieutenant came on here and told us what their mission was it would be pretty much the same.
They have a vested interest in extending the sham and the organization. It still has shipwreck in the fabric of its operation regarding the body of Christ.
The only difference would be the flavor of the candy offered from the van.
Allow me to state this in the simplest way possible,. This statement is simply false. Error after error after error has been scrutinized here. Thread upon thread upon thread has dissected these errors in great detail. It's really not my fault you've chosen to reject the obvious. To demonstrate my point, suppose you select any "error" of your choosing and "go over it with great care" to demonstrate why our conclusions are incorrect.
I'm not holding my breath.
Offering that again? People have been offering Mike that chance for DECADES. He flees and declares everything insubstantial while fleeing. I'm not holding my breath either.
This has been discussed here ad nauseum...I get it...but I wanted to add a couple points on Pikes Peak Seminary, US government, and accreditation in the state of Colorado. For those new to the topic victor paul wierwille insisted people call him Dr. Wierwille because he had a fake doctorate from a degree mill and that organization was unaccredited. By all reliable accounts wierwille earned a masters degree, which is hard enough...so why lie about the doctorate? Anywho...heres the facts...
First let's get Chockfull's post from 2011 out in the open:
Then there is John Jeudes work on Pikes Peak Seminary:
Then there is understanding the state of Colorado. Personally, I dont know if this applied to Pikes Peak back in the time it was active, because perhaps state law changed. But this especially applies to anyone who received a degree from the way international from Camp Gunnison -- sorry your degree is not worth the paper it's printed on and not recognized as an accredited degree...and that applies to me as well..
Religious Authorization- A bona fide religious postsecondary educational institution, offering only programs which are religious in nature, which is exempt from property taxation under the laws of this state and whose degrees or diplomas have no state recognition;
So, either Pikes Peak/Burton College and Seminary was totally unaccredited back then...or perhaps these laws were in effect back then and Pikes Peak Seminary falls under Religious Authorization accredidation which is to say --- The state of colorado recognizes your religious group as meeting the criteria to grant a degree under Colorado law but that degree has no state recognition...which makes it null in every other state..since it's worthless in Colorado reciprocity is out the window... and null in the eyes of US Department of Education.
Wierwille wasnt a doctor and his mail in doctorate wasnt worth the paper it was printed on. A Dr he wasnt.
Offering that again? People have been offering Mike that chance for DECADES. He flees and declares everything insubstantial while fleeing. I'm not holding my breath either.
Well I got to flee, but only temporarily. I did not intend to do a major de-railing here, but that is what happened.
I am back to cleaning windows again now and don't have the time to do this endlessly. I have saved this page and will try to respond to as many as possible on the "Jumping to Concussions" thread. Please let me know over there if there are any pressing items you want to discuss.
Denial. Anytime the truth about wierwille stacks up and becomes irrefutable by all normal means of debate you run. Why can't u accept the truth? Are you afraid? I used to be. I was afraid the truth about the way international would somehow lessen God.. God loves the people in the way international but God is not tied to a 501-c3. He's much too awesome to fit in our boxes we try and make for him so we can deal with God on our terms. Learn to accept God on God's terms. Whatever the real truth is it's far greater than believing a lie.
Actually, I do bring up the difficult topics at fellowship, but only when I'm sure there are no younger grads or new people who will hear me
So why don't you extend the same courtesy here?
Don't you think new people come here that have been traumatized by The Way and Saint Vic and the last thing they need to hear is what a stand up guy (in your mind, anyway) Saint Vic was?
So by your own definition, are you disrespecting us?
Actually, I do bring up the difficult topics at fellowship, but only when I'm sure there are no younger grads or new people who will hear me.
And that makes you accountable for lying to people when u know the truth. Actually, this statement is very revealing on how much you have made the way internationals unethical practice of hiding and distorting the truth your very own. That's dishonest and someday you will explain how all that works to the non-absent Christ face to face. The so called difficult topics will eventually steam roll so called younger grads one day leaving them totally clueless and they will either have to accept a series of lies or hopefully they will run for the door and far away from twi.
There are many items to deal with here, and I am thinking up and talking up any and all that I can come up with. If just one of these ideas works that would mean great progress. Maybe someone else will be inspired by my failed attempts and find a way to make some of it work.
Mistletoe Mike, has an interesting idea there. However, besides failure to grasp the salient notion of Wierwille living the life of a con artist, his "suggestions for improvement" in Victor's cult also lack grasp of cultural inertia.
Of course, others on this thread have either alluded to or described said inertia.
Mistletoe Mike, alas, lacks the drive and tenacity of a warrior. If he had said tenacity, he'd not necessarily feel the need to be a parasite at GSC, he'd do what warriors and spies have done in records throughout the millennia, operate from within his target organization, albeit quietly and in a clandestine manner.
Why doesn't Mistletoe Mike take advantage of TWI's insecurity (seeking to reinstate those who have left the "Household") and go back in to make the changes he so wants to see?
I think of Jesus, when he eluded mobs. In Luke 4 (NIV):
16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]
20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.
23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”
24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy[g] in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”
28 All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.
Denial. Anytime the truth about wierwille stacks up and becomes irrefutable by all normal means of debate you run. Why can't u accept the truth? Are you afraid? I used to be.
You are jumping to concussions!!!
I'm not running, just getting myself translated like a bishop, over to the "Jumping to Concussions" thread.
*/*/*/*
And, no I'm not afraid of change, having done it a lot.
ONE of the reasons I can't take you folks seriously is because I know for sure you can't offer me a viable paradigm, a set of Postulates, that come close to the valuable paradigm I have enjoyed partially from 1971 to 1998, and then fully since then. No one here can offer a system of thought, a viable rule for faith and practice that even comes close to what I get from the collaterals. It is laughable that any of you could think I would value the fumbling theology of anti-PFAL that drives you. You got a lot of bad news but no Good News to offer me.
Picture me to be a dog, happy and satisfied with an old smelly, rotten bone, with maggots crawling on it. You want to take it away from me, but it's the only thing I have to gnaw on. How dare you try to take it away from me! All you'll get from me is a fight if you get too close to taking it away.
But then picture my reaction (I'm still a dog) if you bring to me a warm, fresh cooked hunk of beef, and hold it under my nose. Mmmmm fresh meat, what was I thinking with this smelly bone? Got any more beef where that came from?
*/*/*/**
You ask if I am afraid?
I ask you WHERE'S THE BEEF ???
I'm not running, just getting myself translated like a bishop, over to the "Jumping to Concussions" thread.
Nah, dont use my mostly irrelevant post to ignore the weighter matters where you refuse to respond. Deal with the actual material. Its obvious you are trying to derail and confuse threads. We arent jumping to concussions discussing wierwilles fake doctorate. Show me where the doctorate isnt fake...show me where I am in error on pike peaks accreditation, or lack thereof. Cmon...smash some atoms.
So why don't you extend the same courtesy here? ... Don't you think new people come here that have been traumatized by The Way and Saint Vic and the last thing they need to hear is what a stand up guy (in your mind, anyway) Saint Vic was? ... So by your own definition, are you disrespecting us?
I have thought long and hard on that, and that's the reason I try to stay one one thread only. That was totally blown over the holidays, but I am trying to get back to a minimal footprint here, by retreating to the Jumping thread.
But I also think that the flow of traumatized people has gone way down after the LCM mess was cleaned up. After 2002 they were humbled by the court and were doing a lot of re-grouping. I think they started traumatizing a far smaller number of people. That translates to a cut in the flow of hurt refugees here.
Now with TWI-4 only a few years old, they are poised to solve a lot of the internal problems the past TWI administrations foisted upon them.
If I am right, and they have a change of heart and words and activities at HQ like what I saw locally, then the flow of victims here should go way down. We shall see.
But I also think that the flow of traumatized people has gone way down after the LCM mess was cleaned up. After 2002 they were humbled by the court and were doing a lot of re-grouping. I think they started traumatizing a far smaller number of people. That translates to a cut in the flow of hurt refugees here.
If I am right, and they have a change of heart and words and activities at HQ like what I saw locally, then the flow of victims here should go way down. We shall see.
Not a cessation of traumatizing victims, but a slowing of the flow! WITAF!!
Wow. Just wow.
Mike first admitted to the "oodles and oodles" of errors in PFAL. Then he suggested repackaging the error laden class as a DVD box set in order to continue the deceit of the naïve. Now he admits the traumatizing and victimization persists!!
[Mistletoe Mike] Blaming everyone here for your deal.
Mistletoe Mike firstcame to GSC inDecember 2002. Off and on, now starting his third decade as a GSC parasite, he is the anti-leader. By that, I do not mean he's a follower. As cman noted, he blames everyone for not following his lead. For not understanding his fuzzy posts.
IF Mike really wanted to lead, rather than representing an annoying gnat, he might embrace Jocko Willink's insight. But to do so, he would not only need to forsake GSC, he's have to infiltrate TWI, become a trusted follower there, and effectively communicate his "vision" for healing that pathetic organization.
ONE of the reasons I can't take you folks seriously is because I know for sure you can't offer me a viable paradigm, a set of Postulates, that come close to the valuable paradigm I have enjoyed partially from 1971
We offer you verifiable facts and truth that stands the test of all intellectual honesty. No the material here isnt perfect but refute the actual material...
what you want is some rah rah crap like wierwille gave you...you want saleman and showmanship. That's not Christ.
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waysider
I guess I just don't understand why he would even need this degree, seeing as how God gave him access to all the secrets of the universe anyhow.
waysider
Allow me to state this in the simplest way possible,. This statement is simply false. Error after error after error has been scrutinized here. Thread upon thread upon thread has dissected these errors
chockfull
It would mean they came to the truth of the realization that worshipping an idol of VPW is not a viable future for a Christian ministry. It would mean they discarded the old wineskin and were fre
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WordWolf
You were out of it, but it was not out of you. You may have had lots of time TO clear your head, but instead you doubled-down on twi. Still plugged in.
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WordWolf
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WordWolf
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WordWolf
The only difference would be the flavor of the candy offered from the van.
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WordWolf
Offering that again? People have been offering Mike that chance for DECADES. He flees and declares everything insubstantial while fleeing. I'm not holding my breath either.
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WordWolf
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Mike
Well I got to flee, but only temporarily. I did not intend to do a major de-railing here, but that is what happened.
I am back to cleaning windows again now and don't have the time to do this endlessly. I have saved this page and will try to respond to as many as possible on the "Jumping to Concussions" thread. Please let me know over there if there are any pressing items you want to discuss.
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cman
lol
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Nathan_Jr
Mmmph
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waysider
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Nathan_Jr
As good as that thread is, it is not an exhaustive survey. It leaves dozens, even hundreds, of objectively discerned errors on the table.
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OldSkool
Denial. Anytime the truth about wierwille stacks up and becomes irrefutable by all normal means of debate you run. Why can't u accept the truth? Are you afraid? I used to be. I was afraid the truth about the way international would somehow lessen God.. God loves the people in the way international but God is not tied to a 501-c3. He's much too awesome to fit in our boxes we try and make for him so we can deal with God on our terms. Learn to accept God on God's terms. Whatever the real truth is it's far greater than believing a lie.
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So_crates
So why don't you extend the same courtesy here?
Don't you think new people come here that have been traumatized by The Way and Saint Vic and the last thing they need to hear is what a stand up guy (in your mind, anyway) Saint Vic was?
So by your own definition, are you disrespecting us?
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OldSkool
And that makes you accountable for lying to people when u know the truth. Actually, this statement is very revealing on how much you have made the way internationals unethical practice of hiding and distorting the truth your very own. That's dishonest and someday you will explain how all that works to the non-absent Christ face to face. The so called difficult topics will eventually steam roll so called younger grads one day leaving them totally clueless and they will either have to accept a series of lies or hopefully they will run for the door and far away from twi.
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OldSkool
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Rocky
Mistletoe Mike, has an interesting idea there. However, besides failure to grasp the salient notion of Wierwille living the life of a con artist, his "suggestions for improvement" in Victor's cult also lack grasp of cultural inertia.
Of course, others on this thread have either alluded to or described said inertia.
Mistletoe Mike, alas, lacks the drive and tenacity of a warrior. If he had said tenacity, he'd not necessarily feel the need to be a parasite at GSC, he'd do what warriors and spies have done in records throughout the millennia, operate from within his target organization, albeit quietly and in a clandestine manner.
Why doesn't Mistletoe Mike take advantage of TWI's insecurity (seeking to reinstate those who have left the "Household") and go back in to make the changes he so wants to see?
I think of Jesus, when he eluded mobs. In Luke 4 (NIV):
16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[f]
20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.
23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”
24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy[g] in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”
28 All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.
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Mike
You are jumping to concussions!!!
I'm not running, just getting myself translated like a bishop, over to the "Jumping to Concussions" thread.
*/*/*/*
And, no I'm not afraid of change, having done it a lot.
ONE of the reasons I can't take you folks seriously is because I know for sure you can't offer me a viable paradigm, a set of Postulates, that come close to the valuable paradigm I have enjoyed partially from 1971 to 1998, and then fully since then. No one here can offer a system of thought, a viable rule for faith and practice that even comes close to what I get from the collaterals. It is laughable that any of you could think I would value the fumbling theology of anti-PFAL that drives you. You got a lot of bad news but no Good News to offer me.
Picture me to be a dog, happy and satisfied with an old smelly, rotten bone, with maggots crawling on it. You want to take it away from me, but it's the only thing I have to gnaw on. How dare you try to take it away from me! All you'll get from me is a fight if you get too close to taking it away.
But then picture my reaction (I'm still a dog) if you bring to me a warm, fresh cooked hunk of beef, and hold it under my nose. Mmmmm fresh meat, what was I thinking with this smelly bone? Got any more beef where that came from?
*/*/*/**
You ask if I am afraid?
I ask you WHERE'S THE BEEF ???
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OldSkool
Nah, dont use my mostly irrelevant post to ignore the weighter matters where you refuse to respond. Deal with the actual material. Its obvious you are trying to derail and confuse threads. We arent jumping to concussions discussing wierwilles fake doctorate. Show me where the doctorate isnt fake...show me where I am in error on pike peaks accreditation, or lack thereof. Cmon...smash some atoms.
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Mike
I have thought long and hard on that, and that's the reason I try to stay one one thread only. That was totally blown over the holidays, but I am trying to get back to a minimal footprint here, by retreating to the Jumping thread.
But I also think that the flow of traumatized people has gone way down after the LCM mess was cleaned up. After 2002 they were humbled by the court and were doing a lot of re-grouping. I think they started traumatizing a far smaller number of people. That translates to a cut in the flow of hurt refugees here.
Now with TWI-4 only a few years old, they are poised to solve a lot of the internal problems the past TWI administrations foisted upon them.
If I am right, and they have a change of heart and words and activities at HQ like what I saw locally, then the flow of victims here should go way down. We shall see.
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cman
Blaming everyone here for your deal.
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Nathan_Jr
Not a cessation of traumatizing victims, but a slowing of the flow! WITAF!!
Wow. Just wow.
Mike first admitted to the "oodles and oodles" of errors in PFAL. Then he suggested repackaging the error laden class as a DVD box set in order to continue the deceit of the naïve. Now he admits the traumatizing and victimization persists!!
Does TWI even know you are here?
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OldSkool
The view is a little limited in wierwilles works...
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Rocky
Mistletoe Mike first came to GSC in December 2002. Off and on, now starting his third decade as a GSC parasite, he is the anti-leader. By that, I do not mean he's a follower. As cman noted, he blames everyone for not following his lead. For not understanding his fuzzy posts.
IF Mike really wanted to lead, rather than representing an annoying gnat, he might embrace Jocko Willink's insight. But to do so, he would not only need to forsake GSC, he's have to infiltrate TWI, become a trusted follower there, and effectively communicate his "vision" for healing that pathetic organization.
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OldSkool
We offer you verifiable facts and truth that stands the test of all intellectual honesty. No the material here isnt perfect but refute the actual material...
what you want is some rah rah crap like wierwille gave you...you want saleman and showmanship. That's not Christ.
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