I noticed that identifying the real doctrinal leadership there is problematic, and the anonymous doctrine articles they publish adds to the slight mystery of who is really calling the shots at TWI-4. I am a little bit suspicious that Rosalie and Donna may want to still lead from the shadows. How much this is the case I want to find out for several reasons.
I have seen in my business that many commercial undertakings are run by unknown people, who place puppets out in front of thwm to deflect criticism and effective challenges. If this is going on in TWI-4 I will eventually find out about it, by the style of resistance I get.
In my business, soliciting contracts from a company means I have to find WHO really makes the financial and budgetary decisions, if I want make a meaningful pitch to work for them.
In 42 years I have seen how about 600 businesses operate. It is very common for the real leaders to operate in the shadows, and have front men to do their dirty work.
Of course they still lead from the shadows. Donnas sister and RRs besties son are two of the new teachers in the class.
And yes that is how they operate as I’ve been quoting Pharisees and the expanded Word study done on them in The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse for greater than a decade.
They probably attend BOD meetings as emeritus and speak there still without voting rights.
if you don’t know this already as opposed to eventually finding out about this you have zero business trying to lead people reading on this site anywhere.
And we've had it proven time and time again the collaterals are filled with error. We won't budge on that. So you're wasting your time.
Proven by a biased GreaseSpot Research Department, using methods designed to prove what is already believed.
One by one all of these so-called errors in the written collaterals need to be gone over with great care. I don't think the proving you lean on is trustworthy.
The moon could fall out of the sky while we sleep and squash us all flatter that the winner of a Twiggy lookalike contest. Probably not likely to happen, though.
Proven by a biased GreaseSpot Research Department, using methods designed to prove what is already believed.
One by one all of these so-called errors in the written collaterals need to be gone over with great care. I don't think the proving you lean on is trustworthy.
As your claims are based on your personal bias.
However, Ive proved it to myself time and time again over the course of 40 years.
Proven by a biased GreaseSpot Research Department, using methods designed to prove what is already believed.
One by one all of these so-called errors in the written collaterals need to be gone over with great care. I don't think the proving you lean on is trustworthy.
Let’s compare.
GS research dept: multiple denominations, many advanced philosophical and psychological sources up to date with latest in fields. Not that many people though. What you say 10 active posters?
TWI research dept:
Oh it doesn’t exist. Was disbanded by 2nd Prez who so hated research he called GMIR a dirty word.
Hasnt been reinstated since in 2 gen of wineskins. Oh except for 4 people were given a project to re work the PFAL syllabus according to their proven re-search = research model. And put it on video for the new class.
I will put my money on the former for coming up with legitimate change. As opposed to whitewashing the walls with one more coat.
It doesn’t sound like the time was the issue. You seem to have some processing thought going on around some organization changes and mods.
But the collateral cobwebs from 25 years may take a while of going after with brooms.
I gave up trying to help him understand that the so called new leadership is the same old leadership with new faces...nothing of substance will change and they DO NOT want to hear from your average field believers...that way corps superiority complex keeps the directors from actuall listening to people in any meaningful way.
I gave up trying to help him understand that the so called new leadership is the same old leadership with new faces...nothing of substance will change and they DO NOT want to hear from your average field believers...that way corps superiority complex keeps the directors from actuall listening to people in any meaningful way.
Yeah that’s not his mission. His mission is to tell all of us that they are really cool and loving and laid back and any evil they did was because they were under duress.
So his mission is pretty much like if you imagined one of them or their lieutenant came on here and told us what their mission was it would be pretty much the same.
They have a vested interest in extending the sham and the organization. It still has shipwreck in the fabric of its operation regarding the body of Christ.
One by one all of these so-called errors in the written collaterals need to be gone over with great care. I don't think the proving you lean on is trustworthy.
Allow me to state this in the simplest way possible,. This statement is simply false. Error after error after error has been scrutinized here. Thread upon thread upon thread has dissected these errors in great detail. It's really not my fault you've chosen to reject the obvious. To demonstrate my point, suppose you select any "error" of your choosing and "go over it with great care" to demonstrate why our conclusions are incorrect.
There's a new set of "someones" there now. They are not committed to the same attitudes their predecessors were. I think they want to fix it, especially since most of the garbage happened there long ago.
I've got a question for you to ponder: do YOU want to see things fixed there ??? Or would you like it to stay broken there so that you have a mission of complaining against it here?
I see a conflict of interest here. It is similar to the conflict of interest that specially trained drug cops face, should they start winning the war on drugs. It means they are out of a job. Similarly, there's the doctor who doesn't have much motivation to see his patient get totally healed, and then become a former customer.
Do you want to see TWI want to change? Or do you prefer they stay the target of vitriol here? Are you and the others more into the vitriol than in a someday solution, or partial solutions?
With few if any exceptions, we'd like to see everyone delivered from the curse of twi. If twi closed up tomorrow, we'd celebrate and roll out the red carpet for the survivors, to help them heal up and help them understand what happened, and help them move on to other places and groups.
That you see a conflict of interest here is your problem. The majority of posters here have moved on with their lives without twi. We consider those people "GSC SUCCESS STORIES." We're perfectly happy with 100% of twi survivors ALL moving on with their lives and twi becoming a historical footnote. We aren't getting PAID to oppose twi. It won't be too hard to find other ways to occupy our time.
We want twi to change, but we're realistic. All the posturing is just reorganizing the deck chairs at the most. "Partial solutions" are imaginary, and results will be as well. Feel free to spend all your free time on them, if you want.
It has been established (the 2nd time did it) Victor purchased a ThD in homiletics from an opportunistic, short-lived diploma mill called Pikes Peak Seminary.
Given.
Now, has anyone read his dissertation? I understand he “wrote” it on Peter. HOWEVER, Peter is not a topic for a dissertation. It would be much more focused and specific than just Peter. Anyone know?
I noticed that identifying the real doctrinal leadership there is problematic, and the anonymous doctrine articles they publish adds to the slight mystery of who is really calling the shots at TWI-4. I am a little bit suspicious that Rosalie and Donna may want to still lead from the shadows. How much this is the case I want to find out for several reasons.
I have seen in my business that many commercial undertakings are run by unknown people, who place puppets out in front of thwm to deflect criticism and effective challenges. If this is going on in TWI-4 I will eventually find out about it, by the style of resistance I get.
In my business, soliciting contracts from a company means I have to find WHO really makes the financial and budgetary decisions, if I want make a meaningful pitch to work for them.
In 42 years I have seen how about 600 businesses operate. It is very common for the real leaders to operate in the shadows, and have front men to do their dirty work.
You are "a bit suspicious"??? That's business as usual at twi. That's BEEN business as usual for twi for more than a decade. And you want to pretend that people at the GSC don't know what's going on- but you know....
I am trying to not make trouble here. I admit some times we have drifted into meaningless bickering, and i want to change that.
I think you are living in the past too much. We got to let go of some of the things we can't change. There are some things that are changable and we should focus on them.
BWA-HA-HA! Your entire history here has been "making trouble." Either you did it intentionally, or you had no idea that you were making trouble the entire time- which calls your sanity into question.
Whenever any of us tried to engage in regular discussion, even recently, you went into another advertisement or refused to discuss. The only part you SEEM to want to change is you being corrected and refuted all the time.
Ok, so, we've understood what happened at twi, and moved on with our lives. You're trying to reconstruct twi hippie-era experiences, complete with cluelessness about the problems (like the deceptions, rapes...) And WE are "living in the past too much."
I think you seriously overestimate your credibility on both sides of the divide. Only, we will actually level with you face-to-face. twi will laugh behind your back.
I have said before, that I have faced many of the challenges discussed here between 6 and 10 years before anyone here. I have gone through all kinds of alternate thinking modes CONTRARY to pfal, LONG before anyone here. I went through that phase, and eventually I found that the collaterals are the baby, and almost everything else was bathwater of varying pollution levels.
I finished my thinking of other possibilities outside of PFAL in 1998, a few years before GreaseSpot was founded.
If your thinking really led you there, it was flawed. Refusal to even entertain the idea that you MIGHT have been wrong is not helping you. It's also not making your case stronger. The rest of us continue to learn things. You're proud of halting at 1998. You missed a LOT.
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waysider
I guess I just don't understand why he would even need this degree, seeing as how God gave him access to all the secrets of the universe anyhow.
waysider
Allow me to state this in the simplest way possible,. This statement is simply false. Error after error after error has been scrutinized here. Thread upon thread upon thread has dissected these errors
chockfull
It would mean they came to the truth of the realization that worshipping an idol of VPW is not a viable future for a Christian ministry. It would mean they discarded the old wineskin and were fre
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chockfull
Of course they still lead from the shadows. Donnas sister and RRs besties son are two of the new teachers in the class.
And yes that is how they operate as I’ve been quoting Pharisees and the expanded Word study done on them in The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse for greater than a decade.
They probably attend BOD meetings as emeritus and speak there still without voting rights.
if you don’t know this already as opposed to eventually finding out about this you have zero business trying to lead people reading on this site anywhere.
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Mike
Proven by a biased GreaseSpot Research Department, using methods designed to prove what is already believed.
One by one all of these so-called errors in the written collaterals need to be gone over with great care. I don't think the proving you lean on is trustworthy.
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So_crates
Again the words of an abusive spouse to their victim.
Sorry, you've had plenty of time, as your constantly reminding us
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Mike
But I was out of it from 1987 till now. I had time to clear my head.
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chockfull
I know. It’s a big ship and it takes time to turn it.
Direct quote in 2 separate generations of the Way from 2 separate top leaders.
Meanwhile I see Fortune 100 companies completely change focus towards a new thing very quickly.
Stubbornness and idolatry will take up all the time you have plus some.
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Mike
I said give THEM a little time.
As for me, give me a chance to change my STYLE here. I am trying to be as responsive as possible.
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OldSkool
A camera offers an appropriate analogy.
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So_crates
As your claims are based on your personal bias.
However, Ive proved it to myself time and time again over the course of 40 years.
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So_crates
Did you still read the collaterals?
That's like saying I didn't attend any Nazi party meetings but I studied Mein Kofp.
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chockfull
Let’s compare.
GS research dept: multiple denominations, many advanced philosophical and psychological sources up to date with latest in fields. Not that many people though. What you say 10 active posters?
TWI research dept:
Oh it doesn’t exist. Was disbanded by 2nd Prez who so hated research he called GMIR a dirty word.
Hasnt been reinstated since in 2 gen of wineskins. Oh except for 4 people were given a project to re work the PFAL syllabus according to their proven re-search = research model. And put it on video for the new class.
I will put my money on the former for coming up with legitimate change. As opposed to whitewashing the walls with one more coat.
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So_crates
Still holds. Every abusive relationship the abuser wants another chance and pleads for more time to change.
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chockfull
It doesn’t sound like the time was the issue. You seem to have some processing thought going on around some organization changes and mods.
But the collateral cobwebs from 25 years may take a while of going after with brooms.
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OldSkool
I gave up trying to help him understand that the so called new leadership is the same old leadership with new faces...nothing of substance will change and they DO NOT want to hear from your average field believers...that way corps superiority complex keeps the directors from actuall listening to people in any meaningful way.
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Nathan_Jr
What does an ECN for the so-called 1942 promise look like?
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chockfull
Yeah that’s not his mission. His mission is to tell all of us that they are really cool and loving and laid back and any evil they did was because they were under duress.
So his mission is pretty much like if you imagined one of them or their lieutenant came on here and told us what their mission was it would be pretty much the same.
They have a vested interest in extending the sham and the organization. It still has shipwreck in the fabric of its operation regarding the body of Christ.
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waysider
Allow me to state this in the simplest way possible,. This statement is simply false. Error after error after error has been scrutinized here. Thread upon thread upon thread has dissected these errors in great detail. It's really not my fault you've chosen to reject the obvious. To demonstrate my point, suppose you select any "error" of your choosing and "go over it with great care" to demonstrate why our conclusions are incorrect.
I'm not holding my breath.
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Nathan_Jr
mmmph
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WordWolf
With few if any exceptions, we'd like to see everyone delivered from the curse of twi. If twi closed up tomorrow, we'd celebrate and roll out the red carpet for the survivors, to help them heal up and help them understand what happened, and help them move on to other places and groups.
That you see a conflict of interest here is your problem. The majority of posters here have moved on with their lives without twi. We consider those people "GSC SUCCESS STORIES." We're perfectly happy with 100% of twi survivors ALL moving on with their lives and twi becoming a historical footnote. We aren't getting PAID to oppose twi. It won't be too hard to find other ways to occupy our time.
We want twi to change, but we're realistic. All the posturing is just reorganizing the deck chairs at the most. "Partial solutions" are imaginary, and results will be as well. Feel free to spend all your free time on them, if you want.
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Nathan_Jr
Soooo….
It has been established (the 2nd time did it) Victor purchased a ThD in homiletics from an opportunistic, short-lived diploma mill called Pikes Peak Seminary.
Given.
Now, has anyone read his dissertation? I understand he “wrote” it on Peter. HOWEVER, Peter is not a topic for a dissertation. It would be much more focused and specific than just Peter. Anyone know?
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WordWolf
You are "a bit suspicious"??? That's business as usual at twi. That's BEEN business as usual for twi for more than a decade. And you want to pretend that people at the GSC don't know what's going on- but you know....
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waysider
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Nathan_Jr
Mmmph
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WordWolf
BWA-HA-HA! Your entire history here has been "making trouble." Either you did it intentionally, or you had no idea that you were making trouble the entire time- which calls your sanity into question.
Whenever any of us tried to engage in regular discussion, even recently, you went into another advertisement or refused to discuss. The only part you SEEM to want to change is you being corrected and refuted all the time.
Ok, so, we've understood what happened at twi, and moved on with our lives. You're trying to reconstruct twi hippie-era experiences, complete with cluelessness about the problems (like the deceptions, rapes...) And WE are "living in the past too much."
I think you seriously overestimate your credibility on both sides of the divide. Only, we will actually level with you face-to-face. twi will laugh behind your back.
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WordWolf
If your thinking really led you there, it was flawed. Refusal to even entertain the idea that you MIGHT have been wrong is not helping you. It's also not making your case stronger. The rest of us continue to learn things. You're proud of halting at 1998. You missed a LOT.
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