T-Bone are you listening?
The GreaseSpot religion is not immune to abusive shaming to enforce conformity.
What an incredibly spiritually immature suggestion.
GSC is not a religion, like victor's contrived TWI. Here abuse is exposed to the shame of abusive perpetrators like victor and Loy. Conformity is not enforced here.
What an incredibly spiritually immature suggestion.
GSC is not a religion, like victor's contrived TWI. Here abuse is exposed to the shame of abusive perpetrators like victor and Loy. Conformity is not enforced here.
That depends on what you mean by "enforced."
Mocking and jeering and mis-representation can be STRONG enforcement tools.
I was under the impression that you were using them on me in hopes of getting me to line up or leave, JUST AS this video depicts. Did I read you wrong?
Is this really a pure operation, where everyone (but me) is of pure hearts and can do no wrong?
Does being an Expose Operation grant immunity to someone using the methods cults and religions use to dominate people and conversations? If so, I'd like to see your full explanation of it. You may call a friend.
This video from Kati Morton is very accurate and useful. I think I agree with more than 90 percent of it, on first listening.
I hope that shocks some here, because I know some don’t have a clue
where my heart is on many matters, due to the cloud of mocking engaged in.
The only thing I would disagree strongly with this video on is not the text, but the attitude I pick up from it. I could be wrong, but this is what I pick up.
That attitude is that it is impossible to get in the fast lane with God and operate like the right-on First Century believers did.
That attitude is that the Word should be only a mild influence in our lives, and not relied on to really support us in a strong, right-on spiritual adventure. Such reliance will lead to doom only is the message I pick up.
That attitude is that ALL attempts to do things like “all nine all the time” are doomed to abusive and wasteful counterfeits.
*/*/*/*
I say this because the strength of cult domination is a counterfeit of the family and adventures the First Century believers had and experienced. A cult is a counterfeit of something spiritually good and genuine, and that is why cults have strong spiritual powers to hurt God’s people.
A counterfeit implies a genuine.
What that means is the devil exploits strong natural human dynamics and mechanics with cults.
A cult (in that word’s most current usage) is a perversion of something good, pure, and strongly beneficial that God installed in our Biology.
The attitude I get from this video is that there is no “genuine” that the cult-religion is a counterfeit of.The phenomenon of cults just popped up all on its own, in this attitude and perspective.
Some genetics scientists are thinking that, instead of cults being the wrong side of a coin, that the cult-religion is a flaw in our DNA, or an anachronistic trait that should be evolved away from.(please pardon my amateur wording)
When the cult-thing first hit the news in the early 70s I watched intensely as the word “cult” evolved.
I actually met a troupe of the Children of God cult in 1971 living deep in the woods, just months before my first twig. They were in the news bigtime, so I was wary of them, after two discussions. Months later, in my first twig I was wary, as well. I watched for red flags.I had ALMOST joined the Gurdjieff cult a year before, and my roommate did join it, so I had some knowledge of what was going on.
As the 70s progressed I saw no red flags in TWI, so I stayed and I learned the Word. But when I went to HQ in the late 70s a few popped up. In the early 80s more popped up, and they were Corps related.
So my whole time in the Word I have watched the cult-thing grow and change some. The attitudes I described above in text form, and that I seemed to pick up in Kati Morton (or project on her), were loaded with obvious hints in their progression toward discrediting the genuine “cult” Jesus had going.
I am sure many more come out in the open in more recent years in discrediting, by cult association, God’s genuine family dynamic. I pay less attention to cult news these days.
But back then I was keenly interested in seeing how Jesus and his little "cult" of 12 Corps and 500 minions, would escape Modern Psychology’s cult detection skills, as those skills evolved over the decades.
MAYBE I am projecting onto Kati Morton, the attitudes of hundreds of authors of newspaper and internet articles on this topic I’ve read over the decades.They told me with text what their positions on things were, and I could detect the direction they were headed as I describe above. But it was more from Kati Morton’s voice that I was sensing this in video.I could be wrong about her, but I think am right about the other stuff.
*/*/*/*
I hope some here are confused or amazed that I would agree with most of this video and think it was informative. You should be flummoxed, some of you, because I know you don’t know me. I can tell by what you say my position is on tens of issues. You folks are too busy wit mocking and misrepresenting me to hear me well.
It might be fun seeing how far off your guesses are about what I agree with and don’t agree with.
Mocking and jeering and mis-representation can be STRONG enforcement tools?
No one mis-represents here. HOWEVER, If one does, one is swiftly corrected by others or oneself.
Sometimes mocking and jeering are are done for their own sake. Sometimes the mocking and jeering are invited, and that invitation is then obliged.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
I was under the impression that you were using them on me in hopes of getting me to line up or leave, JUST AS this video depicts.
Nope. That's not why I mock and jeer. If you go back and read one of my very first posts, I expressed how important your voice is here, especially as an interlocutor, a foil. I accept your position as contrary to the truth exposed here. I accept that you are in denial of the truth with a closed mind. I accept that you are not a free thinker. This sort of willful ignorance begs to be mocked and jeered.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Did I read you wrong?
As ever. As always.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Is this really a pure operation, where that everyone but me is of pure hearts and can do no wrong?
Nope.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Does being an Expose Operation grant immunity to someone using the methods cults and religions use to dominate people and conversations?
Nope. No one here uses cult tactics, such as those developed and championed by vpw. This is not an evangelizing nor proselytizing endeavor. There is no outreach. It's an open forum for survivors of the cult of TWI. It reveals the truth of the abuse and error of victor paul wierwille and the freak of nature religious corporate cult he built.
No one is dominated here. It's a hot kitchen, but everyone found their own way here. No one is forced to be here. Most are anonymous. No one's lives or livelihoods are in any way contingent on participation here. This could be my last post ever, and no one would care. Same goes for you. We were not invited or love bombed to be here. No one cares if we stay or go.
If you want to start a message board for lovers of vpw and TWI, you are free to do so. It should be obvious to anyone reading these threads, apologists for vpw and his cult, though welcome, will not be received with a bouquet and a red carpet.
using them on me in hopes of getting me to line up or leave
There is SOOOOOOOOO much more to the situation than you claiming to be a victim.
You're not a victim. You come here knowing your viewpoint is grossly at cross purposes to the stated mission of GSC.
IF you were to get honest about it, the story would go more like this: I, Mike harass and abuse posters here because I can. I've been given permission to do so. If I were to accept this reality, I might be more inclined to take John Pavlovitz's guidance, which is on sweatshirts the pastor sells with the title of his most recent book clearly displayed on the front. https://pavlovitzdesign.com/products/if-god-is-love-hooded-sweatshirt
There is SOOOOOOOOO much more to the situation than you claiming to be a victim.
You're not a victim. You come here knowing your viewpoint is grossly at cross purposes to the stated mission of GSC.
Actually, you are incorrect. The purpose of GSC when I came here was "to give the other side," or something like that.
When I first started posting, and for years, the software displayed little sayings next to our icons, and mine read something to the effect that I came her "to give the OTHER other side."
You too are acting like this is a religion, you know the pure other side, and my other side is to ex-communicate me over. You are proving my point, and unaware of it because you fit into the mold of the "true believer" in a religion, and you want to purge the false believers. Free speech has no place when it comes to purifying the religion.
So might we call your religion here The True Other Side ?
I hope people read your posts above very carefully, Nathan_Jr.
It is almost comical how hypocritical you are.
You are attempting to gaslight me.
And you have no idea how transparent you are.
I wouldn't be surprised if, upon sleeping on it all, you heavily edit them tomorrow.
I kinda hope they read them carefully, too, Mike.
If I'm being hypocritical, I hope, even expect, to be called out here. (Edit: Will someone please show me my hypocrisy? I do strive for humble self awareness, but sometimes I miss that mark.)
I am not at all attempting to gaslight you. But that accusation is gaslighting. I'm not taking that rotten bait. Always the accuser, Mike.
I hope I am transparent. I try to be. I am not a deceiver or a huckster.
Actually, you are incorrect. The purpose of GSC when I came here was "to give the other side."
Just as GSC is here to give the other side. But obviously, like the video above, that always triggers you. What's up? Afraid of the truth?
52 minutes ago, Mike said:
when I first started posting, and for years, the software displayed little sayings next to our icons, and mine read something to the effect that I came her "to give the OTHER other side,"
So what? We're here to give the other side too
52 minutes ago, Mike said:
You too are acting like this is a religion, you know the pure other side, and my other side is to ex-communicate me over. You are proving my point, and unaware of it because you fit into the mold of the "true believer" in a religion, and you want to purge the false believers. Free speech has no place when it comes to purifying the religion.
Just as you act like a true believer in a religion and must purge ever mention of your bromance Saint Vic.
Just as you have a right to free speech, so do we. So stay in your lane.
52 minutes ago, Mike said:
So might we call your religion here The True Other Side ?
So might we call your religion the Whited Sepulchure Side?
Just as GSC is here to give the other side. But obviously, like the video above, that always triggers you. What's up? Afraid of the truth?
What's up is that this TWI thing is a lot more complicated than most know, and there are many nuances to the various "sides" here. You think there is only ONE other side to what all happened. TWI has the wrong side, and you have the pure truth right side, and there is ONLY ONE true other side in this religion that has been actively forming here over the years.
I came here to say there are more things to consider in formulating the BEST other side to what happened at TWI.
What's up is that this TWI thing is a lot more complicated than most know, and there are many nuances to the various "sides" here. You think there is only ONE other side to what all happened.
Hate to break it to you, but you're the one talking sides. So take your own advice.
4 minutes ago, Mike said:
TWI has the wrong side, and you have the pure truth right side, and there is ONLY ONE true other side in this religion that has been actively forming here over the years.
No, there is only one truth to the kind of man Saint Vic was. You keep saying he did a lot of good. I keep asking you to get specific. And you keep rabbiting. So tell me, what good did Saint Vic do?
4 minutes ago, Mike said:
I came here to say there are more things to consider in formulating the BEST other side to what happened at TWI.
No you came here to give a lot of broad generalizations that in the grand scheme of things don't amount to squat. Give me some specifics.
Rocky do you have any idea how I originally arrived posting here at GreaseSpot?
Get ready for a big victim claim.
Are you sitting down? Don't be walking around reading this on a phone.
I came to GreaseSpot against my will, in a very strong sense.
Before I ever posted my first post, there were people mocking and misrepresenting me.
Sounds like a ridiculous lie, doesn't it?
Not just a bent perspective, but a total lie?
I can prove it. I have the evidence of who, when, and how.
Dare you call me a liar?
There is no such thing as coming on a forum against your will.
Dude, I go on an opposing political parties forum. Do you think they mock and misrepresent me? Do I care? No.
Regardless of what you do, somebody will always mock or misrepresent you, so you shrug your shoulders, continue living your life, and show everyone they were wrong.
What you don't do is what you're doing, expecting a pity party
What's up is that this TWI thing is a lot more complicated than most know, and there are many nuances
This has been illustrated with bravely honest, detailed testimony by many here. No one is painting a one-dimensional picture. Well, maybe some are, but the most compelling pictures have a lot of texture, color, nuance. Rendering such a complicated picture requires rigorous, honest self-examination. There's quite a bit of that going on here.
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Nathan_Jr
What an incredibly spiritually immature suggestion. GSC is not a religion, like victor's contrived TWI. Here abuse is exposed to the shame of abusive perpetrators like victor and Loy. Conformity
So_crates
There is no such thing as coming on a forum against your will. Dude, I go on an opposing political parties forum. Do you think they mock and misrepresent me? Do I care? No. Regardless of wha
cman
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Mike
T-Bone are you listening?
The GreaseSpot religion is not immune to abusive shaming to enforce conformity.
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Nathan_Jr
What an incredibly spiritually immature suggestion.
GSC is not a religion, like victor's contrived TWI. Here abuse is exposed to the shame of abusive perpetrators like victor and Loy. Conformity is not enforced here.
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Mike
That depends on what you mean by "enforced."
Mocking and jeering and mis-representation can be STRONG enforcement tools.
I was under the impression that you were using them on me in hopes of getting me to line up or leave, JUST AS this video depicts. Did I read you wrong?
Is this really a pure operation, where everyone (but me) is of pure hearts and can do no wrong?
Does being an Expose Operation grant immunity to someone using the methods cults and religions use to dominate people and conversations? If so, I'd like to see your full explanation of it. You may call a friend.
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Mike
This video from Kati Morton is very accurate and useful. I think I agree with more than 90 percent of it, on first listening.
I hope that shocks some here, because I know some don’t have a clue
where my heart is on many matters, due to the cloud of mocking engaged in.
The only thing I would disagree strongly with this video on is not the text, but the attitude I pick up from it. I could be wrong, but this is what I pick up.
That attitude is that it is impossible to get in the fast lane with God and operate like the right-on First Century believers did.
That attitude is that the Word should be only a mild influence in our lives, and not relied on to really support us in a strong, right-on spiritual adventure. Such reliance will lead to doom only is the message I pick up.
That attitude is that ALL attempts to do things like “all nine all the time” are doomed to abusive and wasteful counterfeits.
*/*/*/*
I say this because the strength of cult domination is a counterfeit of the family and adventures the First Century believers had and experienced. A cult is a counterfeit of something spiritually good and genuine, and that is why cults have strong spiritual powers to hurt God’s people.
A counterfeit implies a genuine.
What that means is the devil exploits strong natural human dynamics and mechanics with cults.
A cult (in that word’s most current usage) is a perversion of something good, pure, and strongly beneficial that God installed in our Biology.
The attitude I get from this video is that there is no “genuine” that the cult-religion is a counterfeit of. The phenomenon of cults just popped up all on its own, in this attitude and perspective.
Some genetics scientists are thinking that, instead of cults being the wrong side of a coin, that the cult-religion is a flaw in our DNA, or an anachronistic trait that should be evolved away from. (please pardon my amateur wording)
When the cult-thing first hit the news in the early 70s I watched intensely as the word “cult” evolved.
I actually met a troupe of the Children of God cult in 1971 living deep in the woods, just months before my first twig. They were in the news bigtime, so I was wary of them, after two discussions. Months later, in my first twig I was wary, as well. I watched for red flags. I had ALMOST joined the Gurdjieff cult a year before, and my roommate did join it, so I had some knowledge of what was going on.
As the 70s progressed I saw no red flags in TWI, so I stayed and I learned the Word. But when I went to HQ in the late 70s a few popped up. In the early 80s more popped up, and they were Corps related.
So my whole time in the Word I have watched the cult-thing grow and change some. The attitudes I described above in text form, and that I seemed to pick up in Kati Morton (or project on her), were loaded with obvious hints in their progression toward discrediting the genuine “cult” Jesus had going.
I am sure many more come out in the open in more recent years in discrediting, by cult association, God’s genuine family dynamic. I pay less attention to cult news these days.
But back then I was keenly interested in seeing how Jesus and his little "cult" of 12 Corps and 500 minions, would escape Modern Psychology’s cult detection skills, as those skills evolved over the decades.
MAYBE I am projecting onto Kati Morton, the attitudes of hundreds of authors of newspaper and internet articles on this topic I’ve read over the decades. They told me with text what their positions on things were, and I could detect the direction they were headed as I describe above. But it was more from Kati Morton’s voice that I was sensing this in video. I could be wrong about her, but I think am right about the other stuff.
*/*/*/*
I hope some here are confused or amazed that I would agree with most of this video and think it was informative. You should be flummoxed, some of you, because I know you don’t know me. I can tell by what you say my position is on tens of issues. You folks are too busy wit mocking and misrepresenting me to hear me well.
It might be fun seeing how far off your guesses are about what I agree with and don’t agree with.
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Nathan_Jr
In the conventional sense: to compel compliance.
No one mis-represents here. HOWEVER, If one does, one is swiftly corrected by others or oneself.
Sometimes mocking and jeering are are done for their own sake. Sometimes the mocking and jeering are invited, and that invitation is then obliged.
Nope. That's not why I mock and jeer. If you go back and read one of my very first posts, I expressed how important your voice is here, especially as an interlocutor, a foil. I accept your position as contrary to the truth exposed here. I accept that you are in denial of the truth with a closed mind. I accept that you are not a free thinker. This sort of willful ignorance begs to be mocked and jeered.
As ever. As always.
Nope.
Nope. No one here uses cult tactics, such as those developed and championed by vpw. This is not an evangelizing nor proselytizing endeavor. There is no outreach. It's an open forum for survivors of the cult of TWI. It reveals the truth of the abuse and error of victor paul wierwille and the freak of nature religious corporate cult he built.
No one is dominated here. It's a hot kitchen, but everyone found their own way here. No one is forced to be here. Most are anonymous. No one's lives or livelihoods are in any way contingent on participation here. This could be my last post ever, and no one would care. Same goes for you. We were not invited or love bombed to be here. No one cares if we stay or go.
If you want to start a message board for lovers of vpw and TWI, you are free to do so. It should be obvious to anyone reading these threads, apologists for vpw and his cult, though welcome, will not be received with a bouquet and a red carpet.
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Mike
So, the GreaseSpot religion is a pure religion, because you said so.
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Mike
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Nathan_Jr
No one ever, except you, said GSC is a religion of any kind. GSC is not a religion in any sense of the word religion.
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Mike
So it's not even culty?
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Mike
I hope people read your posts above very carefully, Nathan_Jr.
It is almost comical how hypocritical you are.
You are attempting to gaslight me.
And you have no idea how transparent you are.
I wouldn't be surprised if, upon sleeping on it all, you heavily edit them tomorrow.
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Nathan_Jr
Not even.
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Mike
Other than that, Nathan_Jr, what did you think of my video analysis, and cult history analysis?
Was I projecting my impressions of others onto her?
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Rocky
There is SOOOOOOOOO much more to the situation than you claiming to be a victim.
You're not a victim. You come here knowing your viewpoint is grossly at cross purposes to the stated mission of GSC.
IF you were to get honest about it, the story would go more like this: I, Mike harass and abuse posters here because I can. I've been given permission to do so. If I were to accept this reality, I might be more inclined to take John Pavlovitz's guidance, which is on sweatshirts the pastor sells with the title of his most recent book clearly displayed on the front. https://pavlovitzdesign.com/products/if-god-is-love-hooded-sweatshirt
and this on a tote bag sold by Pavlovitz Designs.
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Rocky
Pretty much.
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Mike
Actually, you are incorrect. The purpose of GSC when I came here was "to give the other side," or something like that.
When I first started posting, and for years, the software displayed little sayings next to our icons, and mine read something to the effect that I came her "to give the OTHER other side."
You too are acting like this is a religion, you know the pure other side, and my other side is to ex-communicate me over. You are proving my point, and unaware of it because you fit into the mold of the "true believer" in a religion, and you want to purge the false believers. Free speech has no place when it comes to purifying the religion.
So might we call your religion here The True Other Side ?
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So_crates
Really?!
And what do you call someone who believes Christ will come back carrying a PLAF book?
Or someone that claims God can lie?
Or someone who believe that a drunken rake was given the revelation to replace the bible?
No. none of that isn't corrupting the good.
As Saint Vic would say you're blaming your opponents of the very thing you're doing.
Kettle meet pot.
Again you accuse us of the very thing you're doing.
Will you?
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Nathan_Jr
I kinda hope they read them carefully, too, Mike.
If I'm being hypocritical, I hope, even expect, to be called out here. (Edit: Will someone please show me my hypocrisy? I do strive for humble self awareness, but sometimes I miss that mark.)
I am not at all attempting to gaslight you. But that accusation is gaslighting. I'm not taking that rotten bait. Always the accuser, Mike.
I hope I am transparent. I try to be. I am not a deceiver or a huckster.
Get ready to be surprised.
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So_crates
Just as GSC is here to give the other side. But obviously, like the video above, that always triggers you. What's up? Afraid of the truth?
So what? We're here to give the other side too
Just as you act like a true believer in a religion and must purge ever mention of your bromance Saint Vic.
Just as you have a right to free speech, so do we. So stay in your lane.
So might we call your religion the Whited Sepulchure Side?
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Mike
Rocky do you have any idea how I originally arrived posting here at GreaseSpot?
Get ready for a big victim claim.
Are you sitting down? Don't be walking around reading this on a phone.
I came to GreaseSpot against my will, in a very strong sense.
Before I ever posted my first post, there were people mocking and misrepresenting me.
Sounds like a ridiculous lie, doesn't it?
Not just a bent perspective, but a total lie?
I can prove it. I have the evidence of who, when, and how.
Dare you call me a liar?
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Mike
What's up is that this TWI thing is a lot more complicated than most know, and there are many nuances to the various "sides" here. You think there is only ONE other side to what all happened. TWI has the wrong side, and you have the pure truth right side, and there is ONLY ONE true other side in this religion that has been actively forming here over the years.
I came here to say there are more things to consider in formulating the BEST other side to what happened at TWI.
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Nathan_Jr
So, you were causally determined to be here?
There were? Please explain.
Not really.
Please do. Sounds interesting. Potentially quite entertaining.
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So_crates
Hate to break it to you, but you're the one talking sides. So take your own advice.
No, there is only one truth to the kind of man Saint Vic was. You keep saying he did a lot of good. I keep asking you to get specific. And you keep rabbiting. So tell me, what good did Saint Vic do?
No you came here to give a lot of broad generalizations that in the grand scheme of things don't amount to squat. Give me some specifics.
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So_crates
There is no such thing as coming on a forum against your will.
Dude, I go on an opposing political parties forum. Do you think they mock and misrepresent me? Do I care? No.
Regardless of what you do, somebody will always mock or misrepresent you, so you shrug your shoulders, continue living your life, and show everyone they were wrong.
What you don't do is what you're doing, expecting a pity party
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Nathan_Jr
This has been illustrated with bravely honest, detailed testimony by many here. No one is painting a one-dimensional picture. Well, maybe some are, but the most compelling pictures have a lot of texture, color, nuance. Rendering such a complicated picture requires rigorous, honest self-examination. There's quite a bit of that going on here.
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