Gluckin did not leave voluntarily. He was kicked out. If he told you differently he is lying. Or you are lying about the story. I was there. I saw the impact on his family.
You see when I get into stories like this with you I reach points of inconsistency.
So basically I don’t trust your old stories to be true or accurate. You are fibbing and making things up like your idol VP.
Do you know the year he left?
I am always trying to get my grasp of the history right.
I have seen many times (both ministry and secular) the phenomenon of two differing views on employment terminations.
"I quit on my own" versus "No, we're firing you."
The sad emotions his family felt can match both scenarios.
But I think the "present truth" came later by a few years. How is your memory on that?
"Bycomparison, I took about 26 years to getfully committed to the writtenfinal product of VPW, where it looks like it took Charlene a couple of months tocommit her life to the man, VPW."
victor paul wierwille hoped it would only take 36 grueling hours for dupes to commit to him. That's all it took for Oldies poor friend.
Not a commitment to Christ, Truth, Love, but a commitment to vpw and his carnal product.
Meanwhile, people here think they can pull an "vpw-idol" away from from me. I admit there were vpw-idolators in TWI, but I had been prepped to avoid idols like that by being burned slightly by a couple of hippie idols in the years prior to me meeting VPW. I went slow with him, and didn't fully accept the collaterals until 1998
Nobody wantd to pull your Saint Vic idol away from you, we just wish you'd peddle it elsewhere.
As you balanced view excuse is as phony as a three dollar bill, you come here whining about free speech but your more than happy to clam up to The Way, you show just how full of bull you are.
You must lead an incredibly boring life as your always on the phone with someone.
I was very diligent to search out what went wrong with the ministry and what went right. Many long distance phone calls were very expensive for the first 10 years of my inquiring around.
"Bycomparison, I took about 26 years to getfully committed to the writtenfinal product of VPW, where it looks like it took Charlene a couple of months tocommit her life to the man, VPW."
victor paul wierwille hoped it would only take 36 grueling hours for dupes to commit to him. That's all it took for Oldies poor friend.
Not a commitment to Christ, Truth, Love, but a commitment to vpw and his carnal product.
You might have skipped this stage yourself, but the instructions at the end of the class were to spend all our reading time in the Epistles of Paul for the next 3 months.
I see Charlene got that part wrong in her book; twice possibly. She has him directing us to read the collaterals only for 3 months after the class.
I remember a few months fixing this error, in that her book seems to have RE-PROGRAMMED the memories of what we were to study those first 3 months.
I was very diligent to search out what went wrong with the ministry and what went right. Many long distance phone calls were very expensive for the first 10 years of my inquiring around.
And so naturally you want to do it all over again.
What's wrong with The Way is what's wrong with PLAF. If you teach people they can get away with anything, then don't be surprised when they try. The problem is systemic.
Then you have Saint Vic, the leader that set what kind of example?
Whatever. Epistles. Collaterals. You miss the point.
The class is the hook. That's the hope. That's the bet with Harry's money. Get them committed after only 36 grueling hours so they will only read what vpw tells them to read - and nothing else... for three months!
The tithing starts at the very next meeting. That's the goal.
You might have skipped this stage yourself, but the instructions at the end of the class were to spend all our reading time in the Epistles of Paul for the next 3 months.
I see Charlene got that part wrong in her book; twice possibly. She has him directing us to read the collaterals only for 3 months after the class.
I remember a few months fixing this error, in that her book seems to have RE-PROGRAMMED the memories of what we were to study those first 3 months.
You are hyper-focusing on details to distract from the big picture.
I was very diligent to search out what went wrong with the ministry and what went right. Many long distance phone calls were very expensive for the first 10 years of my inquiring around.
So you spent all that time and money trying to find out what went wrong. Thirty years later, what became of all that effort?
You're standing around talking about writing ECNs.
Whatever. Epistles. Collaterals. You miss the point.
The class is the hook. That's the hope. That's the bet with Harry's money. Get them committed after only 36 hours so they will only read what vpw tells them to read - and nothing else... for three months!
10 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Epistles, the bible, the collaterals...I don't recall the exact wording. The essence is the same. But, suppose for a minute that he said to read the epistles for 3 months. Why, then, is there now such a push to get back to the collaterals?
11 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:
The tithing starts at the very next meeting. That's the goal.
The answer is I keep bringing things back to PFAL and what we were all very slow learners of, and some want deeply to keep their understanding of PFAL at its current low (less than mastery) levels.
You have the wrong audience, which I attribute to PFLAP causing a comprehensional effect that loops into hyper-determinalisasm. Serious about the wrong audience because many here mastered pflap and all things wierwille long ago, realised most of it isn't Biblically accurate, is quite remedial, and is in no way Biblical research...its stolen goods...
So you spent all that time and money trying to find out what went wrong. Thirty years later, what became of all that effort?
His conclusions can be found up thread (and elsewhere) in a rather unlettered, rambling, unintentionally revealing post to T-Bone.
Mike's conclusions: The film class is trash, riddled with errors - oodles, and oodles of errors. (What kind of trash is the film class, you ask? Steven Seagal movie trash, that's what kind.) The written PFAL book and written collaterals are not trash.
We can be thankful for his lifetime of service to this conclusion.
You might have skipped this stage yourself, but the instructions at the end of the class were to spend all our reading time in the Epistles of Paul for the next 3 months.
I see Charlene got that part wrong in her book; twice possibly. She has him directing us to read the collaterals only for 3 months after the class.
I remember a few months fixing this error, in that her book seems to have RE-PROGRAMMED the memories of what we were to study those first 3 months.
Actually the advice was different depending on when you took the class. VP said to read the epistles for 3 months. I’ll get back to that.
Class coordinators had you read the collaterals. For example, there were exams on Adv class entry from collaterals at one time. Prove you knew the collateral material to be able to take Adv class.
Now back to VP. So the instructions to only read epistles definitely are directing the new graduate away from any teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. You see evidence of an elitist attitude developing by followers obeying this instruction.
Ultra dispensationalism would take this approach hyper focusing on only one time period of scripture.
Step by step instructions to build fundamentalist elitist a holes who witness to their friends to get them to “take the class”.
You were almost onto something with your button bet.
On the Determinism thread was this loose end:
The answer is I keep bringing things back to PFAL and what we were all very slow learners of, and some want deeply to keep their understanding of PFAL at its current low (less than mastery) levels.
People here think they understand what they are devoted to criticizing, but I am often showing them what they missed. For those here with an advanced case of anti-idolatry cooking resent it the most. I'm reminded of silversmith in Acts who was having his idol business ruined by the Christians. Lot of buttons get pushed when a person's idol is fallen.
Meanwhile, people here think they can pull an "vpw-idol" away from from me. I admit there were vpw-idolators in TWI, but I had been prepped to avoid idols like that by being burned slightly by a couple of hippie idols in the years prior to me meeting VPW. I went slow with him, and didn't fully accept the collaterals until 1998.
By comparison, I took about 26 years to get fully committed to the written final product of VPW, where it looks like it took Charlene a couple of months to commit her life to the man, VPW.
Why the difference? I was protecting my buttons and not letting anybody push them. I have to do that all the time here. I listen intellectually here, but I don't let my emotional buttons get exposed easily.
Ummm no. “We” were not slow learners of PFAL. That’s you. By your own testimony.
And amazingly I can look at it objectively now too. Unlike you.
You have gone from fundamentalist elitist a hole to inventing your own whole new reality. With new words like anti-idol.
You did a great job of abstracting your idol into a concept. Instead of “VPW the man” it’s “The Teachers Revelation”.
I mean who really cares whether a person idolizes President Nelson of the Mormon cult or idolize his doctrine where your skin color affects the priesthood.
...So the instructions to only read epistles definitely are directing the new graduate away from any teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. ...
No. Just the opposite.
The 4 Gospels teach us about the PAST ministry of Jesus, here on earth, addressed to the children of Israel.
The 7 Church Epistles teach us about the PRESENT ministry of Jesus, seated at the right hand of God, and addressed to us.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Those who point new Christian babes to the 4 Gospels first to are misdirecting them AWAY from the ONLY mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
97
75
128
134
Popular Days
Dec 19
128
Dec 22
99
Dec 17
99
Dec 21
94
Top Posters In This Topic
Mike 97 posts
chockfull 75 posts
OldSkool 128 posts
Nathan_Jr 134 posts
Popular Days
Dec 19 2022
128 posts
Dec 22 2022
99 posts
Dec 17 2022
99 posts
Dec 21 2022
94 posts
Popular Posts
Twinky
Mike. Get this clear. I hate no-one. I hate ABUSE. Agape thinks no evil? Right. Agape calls evil out!! And I'm calling out the abuse that occurred and likely still occurs. That's not hate
chockfull
Okay reading thru this I find it hard to believe the lack of empathy. Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The w
OldSkool
Correct! But a Christian organization that is all about material abundance is not a Christian orginazation at all because that's not what Christianity is about and its shameful to even attach Christ n
So_crates
You must lead an incredibly boring life as your always on the phone with someone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Do you know the year he left?
I am always trying to get my grasp of the history right.
I have seen many times (both ministry and secular) the phenomenon of two differing views on employment terminations.
"I quit on my own" versus "No, we're firing you."
The sad emotions his family felt can match both scenarios.
But I think the "present truth" came later by a few years. How is your memory on that?
Edited by MikeLink to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
"By comparison, I took about 26 years to get fully committed to the written final product of VPW, where it looks like it took Charlene a couple of months to commit her life to the man, VPW."
victor paul wierwille hoped it would only take 36 grueling hours for dupes to commit to him. That's all it took for Oldies poor friend.
Not a commitment to Christ, Truth, Love, but a commitment to vpw and his carnal product.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Nobody wantd to pull your Saint Vic idol away from you, we just wish you'd peddle it elsewhere.
As you balanced view excuse is as phony as a three dollar bill, you come here whining about free speech but your more than happy to clam up to The Way, you show just how full of bull you are.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
I was very diligent to search out what went wrong with the ministry and what went right. Many long distance phone calls were very expensive for the first 10 years of my inquiring around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
You might have skipped this stage yourself, but the instructions at the end of the class were to spend all our reading time in the Epistles of Paul for the next 3 months.
I see Charlene got that part wrong in her book; twice possibly. She has him directing us to read the collaterals only for 3 months after the class.
I remember a few months fixing this error, in that her book seems to have RE-PROGRAMMED the memories of what we were to study those first 3 months.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
And so naturally you want to do it all over again.
What's wrong with The Way is what's wrong with PLAF. If you teach people they can get away with anything, then don't be surprised when they try. The problem is systemic.
Then you have Saint Vic, the leader that set what kind of example?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Whatever. Epistles. Collaterals. You miss the point.
The class is the hook. That's the hope. That's the bet with Harry's money. Get them committed after only 36 grueling hours so they will only read what vpw tells them to read - and nothing else... for three months!
The tithing starts at the very next meeting. That's the goal.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves and snow
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
You are hyper-focusing on details to distract from the big picture.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
So you spent all that time and money trying to find out what went wrong. Thirty years later, what became of all that effort?
You're standing around talking about writing ECNs.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Epistles, the bible, the collaterals...I don't recall the exact wording. The essence is the same. But, suppose for a minute that he said to read the epistles for 3 months. Why, then, is there now such a push to get back to the collaterals?
Bingo! We have a winner.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
You have the wrong audience, which I attribute to PFLAP causing a comprehensional effect that loops into hyper-determinalisasm. Serious about the wrong audience because many here mastered pflap and all things wierwille long ago, realised most of it isn't Biblically accurate, is quite remedial, and is in no way Biblical research...its stolen goods...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
check your pm....I doubt the present truth had much to do with it.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
His conclusions can be found up thread (and elsewhere) in a rather unlettered, rambling, unintentionally revealing post to T-Bone.
Mike's conclusions: The film class is trash, riddled with errors - oodles, and oodles of errors. (What kind of trash is the film class, you ask? Steven Seagal movie trash, that's what kind.) The written PFAL book and written collaterals are not trash.
We can be thankful for his lifetime of service to this conclusion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
You helped me see that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
His family said differently.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Actually the advice was different depending on when you took the class. VP said to read the epistles for 3 months. I’ll get back to that.
Class coordinators had you read the collaterals. For example, there were exams on Adv class entry from collaterals at one time. Prove you knew the collateral material to be able to take Adv class.
Now back to VP. So the instructions to only read epistles definitely are directing the new graduate away from any teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. You see evidence of an elitist attitude developing by followers obeying this instruction.
Ultra dispensationalism would take this approach hyper focusing on only one time period of scripture.
Step by step instructions to build fundamentalist elitist a holes who witness to their friends to get them to “take the class”.
The Idol Makers
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Ummm no. “We” were not slow learners of PFAL. That’s you. By your own testimony.
And amazingly I can look at it objectively now too. Unlike you.
You have gone from fundamentalist elitist a hole to inventing your own whole new reality. With new words like anti-idol.
You did a great job of abstracting your idol into a concept. Instead of “VPW the man” it’s “The Teachers Revelation”.
I mean who really cares whether a person idolizes President Nelson of the Mormon cult or idolize his doctrine where your skin color affects the priesthood.
Idiot guy with idiot ideas.
That’s a cult.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I am feeling right now about PFAL the exact same description an exmo gave about the Book of Mormon.
”it is a steaming pile of plagiarized whitewashed dogsh1t”.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
I always thought this guy was sneaking a fart based on his body language. But maybe he's a doer of the Turd, and not a hearer only?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
What’s wrong with his left hand? Was that imaginary Hindu he healed contagious?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
He doesn't believe in Jesus.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Turns out it doesn’t matter. Jesus is absent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
No. Just the opposite.
The 4 Gospels teach us about the PAST ministry of Jesus, here on earth, addressed to the children of Israel.
The 7 Church Epistles teach us about the PRESENT ministry of Jesus, seated at the right hand of God, and addressed to us.
*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Those who point new Christian babes to the 4 Gospels first to are misdirecting them AWAY from the ONLY mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.