Sorry, johniam, for any derailing my rumbling locomotive may have inflicted on your train tracks here, and as usual, the entourage I drag with me. I'll try to make it up to by retro-quoting you in your first post here.
On 12/14/2022 at 8:06 AM, johniam said:
... I saw a link called 'one bad decision away from homelessness'. ... This guy claimed he was in TWI and posted on GSC. He had some scathing things to say about both of them. His pet peeve about GSC was what he called lack of forgiveness. He said he was banned from here for life. Just because you won't forgive someone for something doesn't mean your whole life and walk with God are totally flawed. There are things from my past I still hate when I think about them. I don't let myself get too distracted, but this is just human pathos. ... ..
Oh cool! Does that mean you forgive me for my derailing?
But seriously, please allow me to do a little fine tuning on just one sentence. This one:
Just because you won't forgive someone for something doesn't mean your whole life and walk with God are totally flawed.
Please tell me what you think of a few tiny changes:
Just because you won't forgive someone for some things,
doesn't mean their whole life and walk with God are totally flawed.
... I saw a link called 'one bad decision away from homelessness'. ... He had some scathing things to say about both of them. His pet peeve about GSC was what he called lack of forgiveness. He said he was banned from here for life. Just because you won't forgive someone for something doesn't mean your whole life and walk with God are totally flawed. There are things from my past I still hate when I think about them. I don't let myself get too distracted, but this is just human pathos.
I read that long article and the scathing review! Yikes! I thought, that guy is ASKING to be banned, LoL
And then I was struck with an Ah Oh! moment. I hope nobody thinks this guy is ME !?! I have to admit, I walked on eggshells for a little bit that day.
Honest. I did not like him, even though I vaguely remember see an almost good point here and there.
Forgiveness has no bearing on the objective truth about a charlatan huckster like victor paul wierwille. His crippled, slithering walk with his anti-god is unchanged, whether he is forgiven for some things or all things. His complete, total "spiritual walk" is flawed, if every lover of God he ever destroyed forgives him or not.
Forgiveness has no bearing on the objective truth about a charlatan huckster like victor paul wierwille. His crippled, slithering walk with his anti-god is unchanged, whether he is forgiven for some things or all things. His complete, total "spiritual walk" is flawed, if every lover of God he ever destroyed forgives him or not.
Gee !!
THANKS for the sneak preview of the judge's pronouncements when he Returns.
Gee !!
THANKS for the sneak preview of the judge's pronouncements when he Returns.
How'd you do that?
You talking about the absent bastard Jew Christ? I'd hate to be anyone on THAT day that referred to him in that way.
It's objectively observed. It's a description. It's not a judgement. It can be seen spiritually AND through horse sense eyes. It's an empirical observation.
Forgiving victor doesn't change the objective, observable fact of victor. It can only change the forgiver.
...It's objectively observed. It's a description. It's not a judgement. It can be seen spiritually AND through horse sense eyes. It's an empirical observation. ... Forgiving victor doesn't change the objective, observable fact of victor. It can only change the forgiver.
We'll have to allow an exception for God the Forgiver.
He don't change.
How much court experience do you have now?
...I mean as a prosecutor?
Here we have Mike using the forgiveness/unforgiveness schtick that TWI and the offshoots use...(Cool name for a band...introducing TWI and The Offshoots!) TWI uses it to silence dissent where the offshoots use it to protect their golden calf because you cant sell wierwille to an unforgiving crowd ya know. I wonder if God is being unforgiving to record and openly talk about David's sins with Bathseheeba in scripture cause ya know David REPENTED and got it right with God so how dare God bring up his past. Ya....St Vic never owned his trips to the motorcoach, plagaraisism, alcoholism, etc, etc. Hid all that stuff till his dying breath but we are being unforgiving for bringing it up.....double standard of complete cultlike manipulative bullshonta.
2 hours ago, Mike said:
You may get some extra rewards for saving Jesus the time.
He'll be pretty busy then.
2 hours ago, Mike said:
We'll have to allow an exception for God the Forgiver.
He don't change.
How much court experience do you have now?
...I mean as a prosecutor?
2 hours ago, Mike said:
Gee !!
THANKS for the sneak preview of the judge's pronouncements when he Returns.
quote: One of the things "they did to him" was give him money to live on. Reportedly, at some point, about $60k/yr.
Another thing "they" did was divorce him.
But if you like what he has to say, then enjoy.
An update. This morning I listened to part of another teaching. It is called 'discerning of spirits 2' and it's 2 hours 10 minutes long. I listened for just under 1 hour. The first teaching I listened to he one time called himself an athlete of the spirit and that was it. This time he spent many minutes talking about it.
There are many activities that could be compared to walking by the spirit, but none of them are emphasized in the bible. The three that come to mind are athlete, soldier, and farmer. Yes, 'we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spirit powers, etc.' IS an athletic reference. The word DOES also refer to soldiers of the Lord (to be a soldier). Both Paul and Jesus equated their walks with God to husbandry. What those three activities have in common is they are ongoing. If you make your living doing any of those, it's non stop. Farmers get up pre dawn and work their butts off. Athletes are constantly training, even in their off season. Soldiers must get more intense training than anybody, but most military activity is preventative. Athletics is routine, but it's entertainment. No matter how big a fan of any sport you are, you can always push the pause button as needed. Farming is the most routine of the three. Everybody has to eat. More people would connect to farmers of the spirit than the other two., but "Farmers of the Spirit" just doesn't have the 'made for TV' veneer that AOS did...I guess.
I agree that it is significant that soldiers kill their opponents but athletes only compete with them, even though soldiers do a lot more than killing. There are perfectly good ways that athletics can be compared to a believer's walk, but LCM just went too far with it. Even real athletes need time off, breaks, etc. They're not in competition 24/7. Athletes of the spirit in TWI WERE! After football and hockey games the players shake hands with and even hug opposing players. The whole analogy is not air tight. Making it 24/7 is what caused the cheerfulness drain, as Mike put it, and the openly judgmental behavior that cropped up in twigs. I was just as guilty of that as anyone; that's what the ministry had become.
LCM still buys into it; loins, heart, and feet - the whole song and dance. He really is easier to be entreated than he was 25 years ago, but I'll probably listen to one more teaching and be done with it.
I actually wanted to say thx for the summary. I was curious about the direction he was taking but couldn't stomach sitting thru all of it.
I wonder how much issue the average TWI member has with ABS going to support the silenced Prez. I'm sure they don't know about it any more than they do about the settlement $$$. They stopped publishing their books, although most non profits do.
It sounds like the men in tights focus has him digging into allegories.
I do think Bullingers Figures of Speech has some value if you adjust out the spectrum OCD he has. It's way too much.
I think the first step for us 'oldies' to get back in wanting to fellowship again in TWI is for them first to walk in love, admit past horrors and mistakes, repent of all the hurts that harmed lives and careers, and ask for forgiveness. If they did that I believe they would receive forgiveness from many. As I recall we've discussed this before here on the spot it's nothing new. But that kind of thing never happens with these large corporations right? It's not only TWI, its most if not all the large churches, all of these large church bodies. Yes and even the RC churches that we all know have had their share of horrific activities. You literally have to sue them to get any relief.
This is pretty accurate. No action outside of a 2x4 between the eyes for the mule.
Corporations don't change because of morality. They change through pain. Right now that pain is the Pharisee exclusive inner circle structure doesn't really support a large crowd. So they need to put out the “go run classes “ message. Not themselves of course, but their underlings with VP titles will ensure that the average believer is out witnessing.
The latest documented “push” was 2018. Now with the stock market down turn the $65 million cash cow isn't making as much interest. So every down turn look for the witnessing push.
This is the “why” of all the come home talk. What you think a new group of leaders is going to have a sudden morality change and reset the whole structure behind how the ministry works?
Okay. Prove it. Rescind worldwide all your shunning orders you made privately. Announce it from the stage. Should only take a 15 min BOD meeting to approve it. We will wait here.
wonder how much issue the average TWI member has with ABS going to support the silenced Prez. I'm sure they don't know about it any more than they do about the settlement $$$
Well, thanks, Twinky. I appreciate it and would love to be able to build on it. I'll go look at the rest of the post could be re-worked to communicate more.
I think you both have a point about the "extremely blessed” thing. I was thinking of time-wise extreme, as in frequency or numbers.
Intense emotional bliss is something I regard as a "pink flag." But being a life long veteran of window cleaning, I never want to rain on anyone's parade. I am not going to question them about it. But super happy people seem to be broadcasting, in addition to enjoying their being happy, seem to be thinking that if they act it out it will last longer.I was extremely blessed my first six or eight months in the ministry, so blessed my smile muscles hurt, but it wore off, as to be expected.
I saw this in the 1970s TWI-1 quite often. The Jesus Freaks of the Sixties were way up there, but I think a lot of that was phony. People burn out on bliss.
I'm noticing some patterns in those most embittered by finding out VPW was no RC saint. I suspect the bitterness is the flip side of being extremely emotionally happy with VPW in their early days.
I saw this swooning for VPW, even from men, in the early days, and the commitment that ensued. At first, I was actually jealous of their commitment to go WoW and to join the Corps. At first, I thought it was a deficiency in me that I was so cautious.
I had been somewhat duped by Timothy Leary, then Cleve Backster, the plant conscious man, but my first reactions to their pitch was swallow it all with commitment. So, when I got to VPW it was "stand back" and observe.
I just recently noticed an analog to what is happening with me now and associating with TWI-4.
In the 1970s there was, for me, a relatively fast progression towards trusting local leadership (none were Corps), but a wait-and-see attitude towards HQ. I could not seeHQ operate, like I did the locals. It wasn't until working a year at HQ that I really got a sense that the whole ministry was right-on. I could see how most workers there really cared for the people we were serving on the field.
I just still had to continue my slow unemotional progression in commitment, even after working at HQ. It was 10 years of getting blessed by PFAL before I decided to go out Wow. How people could do that or the Corps after one or two years of PFAL under their belt I could never get. Now, looking back reckless.
I get this feeling of reckless rush to judgement from Charlene as I read her book. I saw lots of people with that quick, early commitment she had, but not quite as extreme as her account. Even before taking the class she was witnessing and very emotionally committed to joining the Corps, sight-unseen. I see her as an extreme case of the "extremely blessed" with my new, fresh definition of that phrase.
Maybe I should have waited on that to post after I finish the book, and after I find an appropriate thread in which do it. In addition to me not wanting to "pollute" her thread announcing the book, I kinda doubt if she would want to lower her standards down to me. She is obviously channeling her disappointment energy in ways other than food-fights with ASCII text.
*/*/*/*/*
I had so many things happen in my life that prepared me for these years, that I have a sense of duty, but not religious duty, where I must pay the church organization with my loyalty and man-hours and dollars. It is a sense that God blessed me via TWI-1 and that I want to thank God by giving to His people and see them blessed like I was by PFAL.
In addition to my lucky break of being a far less emotional science geek (which I hated at the time), and with less letdown when VPW's reputation fell, there are other patterns here that I somehow differed from.
This next pattern was scarce 20 years ago here, but it has steadily built in becoming visible.
I think it is pretty safe to say that a lot of the frequent and more vociferous members here were at one time going ape over the ministry and VPW for the first 10 or 20 years.
I’m less sure of this, but a newly emerging pattern I'm seeing is that many here had some of the most devastating of life's calamitous tragedies happen as they were in high commitment mode and deep into ministry life.
I see a pattern that most of the disappointment with the law of believing stems from not being able to get answers to really intense prayers. Failing to see the power "when it is needed most "is a theme of disappointment that I first heard VPW predict, and then later saw people experience.
My odd life went different. While others around me were getting the normal big blessing of early adulthood, I was the one not getting answers to prayers. A close friend of mine was actually trying to understand my life, and why I was still so gung-ho on PFAL, when I lacked so much that normal people had.He had a great life compared to mine and he marveled at my thankfulness for PFAL.
Then finally his first big challenge arrived and clobbered him.He was suddenly very pi$$ed at God and even said so.“But I was believing !!??!!” was his cry.I was thinking, but said not, well if that was real believing, then why did it stop with the clobbering?Real believing is fearless of defeat, even when it happens.Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednego had cultivated genuine believing that flinched not at disaster, like execution by fire.Real believing hangs in there, no matter what.
Many jeer here when I mention genuine believing. There is total rejection of the law of believing, yet whenever I ask about Jesus being wrong about it, all I hear is silence. I never hear “mental ascent” here voluntarily offered by posters with bitter comments on believing.
When I was a cosmic consciousness pursuing hippie, it was a QUEST to achieve believing, even thoughwe did not use that word. It was assumed that genuine believing was hard to achieve. When I hear someone say “I was believing and it didn’t work” they seem to have forgotten all about mental ascent being a GOOD counterfeit of believing.That means it’s easy to mentally ascent and hard to really believe.
I was a loser, in that my mental assent (Yeah I can discipline my mind and get good grades.) did not work.Normal people who used mental ascent got the normal goods of life anyway, while I was always wondering how they did it.Once in the ministry, I figured I must be mentally assenting and the other grads were doing real believing.But then, years later when calamity hit, I could plainly see that their mental ascent was a good counterfeit.
Then in recent months I have seen a lot of the personal stories of people here and really feel for the tragedies they experienced deep into ministry life. The old curse in my life, not making it with mental ascent, turned out to be a blessing, in that I understand the law of believing as Jesus taught it pretty well. I have always known that Jesus’ standard was “believe in the heart with no doubt.”I had to dare to believe to take action and come here.
Okay reading thru this I find it hard to believe the lack of empathy. Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The window washer philosopher is most likely on autism spectrum but without the idiot savante angle.
He has this delusional view that the creator and initiator of the Corps program somehow was not involved in every aspect of it as are current leaders.
No sitting around stuffing your head with PFAL collateral material which amounts to sermon notes by Rhoda for 10 years does not produce anything different in believing than stuffing your head with them for 1 year.
You also are judging penworks every single chapter. I know you don't want to accept TWI has had sketchy research since the start. Maybe you're really just struggling with yourself here not intending to be a complete a hole.
The thing about the corps is that Wierwille most likely got he original concept after observing E.S. Jones's Ashrams. Remember Eli Stanley Jones? The "Billy Graham of India"? He's the guy who has been quoted as stating, "Fear is sand in the machinery of life." and "Abundant living means abundant giving.". Jones brought the Hindu Ashram concept to America after WWII and gave it a Christian twist.. Like everything Wierwille did, he had to give it his own personalized spin. . Summer school became zero corps, zero corps dissolved and made way for the 1st corps and on and on and on. It went through extreme evolutionary changes until the original concept was little more than a faded memory. Studying at the master's feet eventually became an exercise in disciplined communal living, with Wierwille as the self-declared master and purveyor of "wisdom".
The thing about the corps is that Wierwille most likely got he original concept after observing E.S. Jones's Ashrams. Remember Eli Stanley Jones? The "Billy Graham of India"? He's the guy who has been quoted as stating, "Fear is sand in the machinery of life." and "Abundant living means abundant giving.". Jones brought the Hindu Ashram concept to America after WWII and gave it a Christian twist.. Like everything Wierwille did, he had to give it his own personalized spin. . Summer school became zero corps, zero corps dissolved and made way for the 1st corps and on and on and on. It went through extreme evolutionary changes until the original concept was little more than a faded memory. Studying at the master's feet eventually became an exercise in disciplined communal living, with Wierwille as the self-declared master and purveyor of "wisdom".
IMO the evolutionary nature that aspects of this cult have shown means that it will by no means be easy to unravel even if all parties were motivated to do so which they are not.
All the years of policy decisions and changes have left them looking inside to their collective years of wisdom as opposed to anything outside their closed loop for help. That train will continue to run on the rails that got it to its destination for another generation.
We mostly have to jump train and leave the VPW idolators on board toward their destination.
IMO the evolutionary nature that aspects of this cult have shown means that it will by no means be easy to unravel even if all parties were motivated to do so which they are not.
All the years of policy decisions and changes have left them looking inside to their collective years of wisdom as opposed to anything outside their closed loop for help. That train will continue to run on the rails that got it to its destination for another generation.
We mostly have to jump train and leave the VPW idolators on board toward their destination.
I wouldn't mind swinging by a local fellowship if they had one around here. It'd be interesting to say the least, and would try to pick their brain to see what's changed if anything. One thing I won't do is send any $$$$ to headquarters, if that's the way they still do it.
I wouldn't mind swinging by a local fellowship if they had one around here. It'd be interesting to say the least, and would try to pick their brain to see what's changed if anything. One thing I won't do is send any $$$$ to headquarters, if that's the way they still do it.
I do not believe as former Way Corps I would be permitted without special exclusive permission from leadership. If I was I do not believe anything I observed would actually represent accurate info because the dynamic of me being there would change what they shared. Also most of what I talk about is invisible at the twig level. It’s hidden in leadership Pharisee inner circles.
Of course the ABS hasn’t changed in decades take all the money fill the blue form pay yourself for the money order. Send to HQ. Then watch USA office deny a $50 rental fee on a room for a branch meeting. I guess they need the money to pay Craig’s mortgage or rent or whatever.
I do not believe as former Way Corps I would be permitted without special exclusive permission from leadership. If I was I do not believe anything I observed would actually represent accurate info because the dynamic of me being there would change what they shared. Also most of what I talk about is invisible at the twig level. It’s hidden in leadership Pharisee inner circles.
Of course the ABS hasn’t changed in decades take all the money fill the blue form pay yourself for the money order. Send to HQ. Then watch USA office deny a $50 rental fee on a room for a branch meeting.
Don't know what their current policy is, but I always thought that only those who were put on the 'mark and avoid' list were debarred from attendance.
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Twinky
Mike. Get this clear. I hate no-one. I hate ABUSE. Agape thinks no evil? Right. Agape calls evil out!! And I'm calling out the abuse that occurred and likely still occurs. That's not hate
chockfull
Okay reading thru this I find it hard to believe the lack of empathy. Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The w
OldSkool
Correct! But a Christian organization that is all about material abundance is not a Christian orginazation at all because that's not what Christianity is about and its shameful to even attach Christ n
Nathan_Jr
Is it in tongues? Is it danceable?
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Bolshevik
Bananas don't grow on trees.
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Nathan_Jr
Right. Technically, a banana tree is not REALLY a tree.
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Mike
Sorry, johniam, for any derailing my rumbling locomotive may have inflicted on your train tracks here, and as usual, the entourage I drag with me. I'll try to make it up to by retro-quoting you in your first post here.
Oh cool! Does that mean you forgive me for my derailing?
But seriously, please allow me to do a little fine tuning on just one sentence. This one:
Just because you won't forgive someone for something doesn't mean your whole life and walk with God are totally flawed.
Please tell me what you think of a few tiny changes:
Just because you won't forgive someone for some things,
doesn't mean their whole life and walk with God are totally flawed.
What do you think of that?
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Mike
I read that long article and the scathing review! Yikes! I thought, that guy is ASKING to be banned, LoL
And then I was struck with an Ah Oh! moment. I hope nobody thinks this guy is ME !?! I have to admit, I walked on eggshells for a little bit that day.
Honest. I did not like him, even though I vaguely remember see an almost good point here and there.
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Nathan_Jr
Forgiveness has no bearing on the objective truth about a charlatan huckster like victor paul wierwille. His crippled, slithering walk with his anti-god is unchanged, whether he is forgiven for some things or all things. His complete, total "spiritual walk" is flawed, if every lover of God he ever destroyed forgives him or not.
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Mike
Gee !!
THANKS for the sneak preview of the judge's pronouncements when he Returns.
How'd you do that?
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Nathan_Jr
You talking about the absent bastard Jew Christ? I'd hate to be anyone on THAT day that referred to him in that way.
It's objectively observed. It's a description. It's not a judgement. It can be seen spiritually AND through horse sense eyes. It's an empirical observation.
Forgiving victor doesn't change the objective, observable fact of victor. It can only change the forgiver.
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Mike
We'll have to allow an exception for God the Forgiver.
He don't change.
How much court experience do you have now?
Edited by Mike...I mean as a prosecutor?
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Mike
You may get some extra rewards for saving Jesus the time.
He'll be pretty busy then.
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Nathan_Jr
According to victor, God changes all the time.
I’m not prosecuting. I’m not judging. I’m observing, describing.
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OldSkool
Yes!! Thx!
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OldSkool
Yes and yes...it specifically written for that robot gumby dance from renewed mind is the key...
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OldSkool
I was raised on a pickle farm. Tending pickle trees is tiring work.
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OldSkool
Here we have Mike using the forgiveness/unforgiveness schtick that TWI and the offshoots use...(Cool name for a band...introducing TWI and The Offshoots!) TWI uses it to silence dissent where the offshoots use it to protect their golden calf because you cant sell wierwille to an unforgiving crowd ya know. I wonder if God is being unforgiving to record and openly talk about David's sins with Bathseheeba in scripture cause ya know David REPENTED and got it right with God so how dare God bring up his past. Ya....St Vic never owned his trips to the motorcoach, plagaraisism, alcoholism, etc, etc. Hid all that stuff till his dying breath but we are being unforgiving for bringing it up.....double standard of complete cultlike manipulative bullshonta.
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chockfull
I actually wanted to say thx for the summary. I was curious about the direction he was taking but couldn't stomach sitting thru all of it.
I wonder how much issue the average TWI member has with ABS going to support the silenced Prez. I'm sure they don't know about it any more than they do about the settlement $$$. They stopped publishing their books, although most non profits do.
It sounds like the men in tights focus has him digging into allegories.
I do think Bullingers Figures of Speech has some value if you adjust out the spectrum OCD he has. It's way too much.
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chockfull
This is pretty accurate. No action outside of a 2x4 between the eyes for the mule.
Corporations don't change because of morality. They change through pain. Right now that pain is the Pharisee exclusive inner circle structure doesn't really support a large crowd. So they need to put out the “go run classes “ message. Not themselves of course, but their underlings with VP titles will ensure that the average believer is out witnessing.
The latest documented “push” was 2018. Now with the stock market down turn the $65 million cash cow isn't making as much interest. So every down turn look for the witnessing push.
This is the “why” of all the come home talk. What you think a new group of leaders is going to have a sudden morality change and reset the whole structure behind how the ministry works?
Okay. Prove it. Rescind worldwide all your shunning orders you made privately. Announce it from the stage. Should only take a 15 min BOD meeting to approve it. We will wait here.
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OldSkool
Hardly anyone knows.
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chockfull
Okay reading thru this I find it hard to believe the lack of empathy. Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The window washer philosopher is most likely on autism spectrum but without the idiot savante angle.
He has this delusional view that the creator and initiator of the Corps program somehow was not involved in every aspect of it as are current leaders.
No sitting around stuffing your head with PFAL collateral material which amounts to sermon notes by Rhoda for 10 years does not produce anything different in believing than stuffing your head with them for 1 year.
You also are judging penworks every single chapter. I know you don't want to accept TWI has had sketchy research since the start. Maybe you're really just struggling with yourself here not intending to be a complete a hole.
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waysider
The thing about the corps is that Wierwille most likely got he original concept after observing E.S. Jones's Ashrams. Remember Eli Stanley Jones? The "Billy Graham of India"? He's the guy who has been quoted as stating, "Fear is sand in the machinery of life." and "Abundant living means abundant giving.". Jones brought the Hindu Ashram concept to America after WWII and gave it a Christian twist.. Like everything Wierwille did, he had to give it his own personalized spin. . Summer school became zero corps, zero corps dissolved and made way for the 1st corps and on and on and on. It went through extreme evolutionary changes until the original concept was little more than a faded memory. Studying at the master's feet eventually became an exercise in disciplined communal living, with Wierwille as the self-declared master and purveyor of "wisdom".
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chockfull
IMO the evolutionary nature that aspects of this cult have shown means that it will by no means be easy to unravel even if all parties were motivated to do so which they are not.
All the years of policy decisions and changes have left them looking inside to their collective years of wisdom as opposed to anything outside their closed loop for help. That train will continue to run on the rails that got it to its destination for another generation.
We mostly have to jump train and leave the VPW idolators on board toward their destination.
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oldiesman
I wouldn't mind swinging by a local fellowship if they had one around here. It'd be interesting to say the least, and would try to pick their brain to see what's changed if anything. One thing I won't do is send any $$$$ to headquarters, if that's the way they still do it.
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chockfull
I do not believe as former Way Corps I would be permitted without special exclusive permission from leadership. If I was I do not believe anything I observed would actually represent accurate info because the dynamic of me being there would change what they shared. Also most of what I talk about is invisible at the twig level. It’s hidden in leadership Pharisee inner circles.
Of course the ABS hasn’t changed in decades take all the money fill the blue form pay yourself for the money order. Send to HQ. Then watch USA office deny a $50 rental fee on a room for a branch meeting. I guess they need the money to pay Craig’s mortgage or rent or whatever.
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oldiesman
Don't know what their current policy is, but I always thought that only those who were put on the 'mark and avoid' list were debarred from attendance.
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