Yes. What's the advantage to dispensing with that common figure of speech or symbol for the entire sensory system of a human. This is not neuroscience so "5-senses" communicates just fine. Getting the number of senses accurate is not necessary. Do you realize that?
Yes. What's the advantage to dispensing with that common figure of speech or symbol for the entire sensory system of a human. This is not neuroscience so "5-senses" communicates just fine. Getting the number of senses accurate is not necessary. Do you realize that?
Yep.
The whole point is to deny a person the right to go with their gut or thoughts.
You can't trust you're own senses . . . you can't trust you're own thoughts . . . you can't trust your own conclusion . . . you can't use you're own intuition . . .
OMG! Dust bunnies under the FRIDGE??? DEBIL SPURTS!! . . . RUNNN!!!!
What I try to imagine, as a mental exercise, is how would we tell the friends and relatives of Uriah and Bathsheba that David was a good guy?
To perform this mental exercise, you must still have the ability to put VPW off to the side. Do you still have that mental skill, or has the habit of invoking the usual anti-idol convinced you that a closed mind is appropriate here.
Whenever I bring up the damage David caused here, the knee-jerk response is to shove that damage under the rug and to proclaim all anti-praise to the anti-idol. Thinking about this is threatening to the anti-idol that is so loved.
It is the damage from David that I think of, and how did some of them recover from that damage.
Do you think David repenting was very soothing to them? If you were one of them, what would convince you that David's repenting was genuine.
How does David's genuine repenting help the people who were damaged by David?
Nowadays WE know David's repenting was genuine, because it is written in God's Word that he repented. But I am asking HOW did any of those damaged people recognize it was genuine?
What I try to imagine as a mental exercise is to form an opinion that comes from outside of PFAL and it’s influences.
I mean even by your fodder in da verd THE apostle for our day and time he recognized that there are Christians outside the Way.
They use GASP materials that aren’t sold in TWI bookstore. They read “commentaries” oh how devilish. They watch other denominational teachings. Oh how horrible returning to other ideas after drinking the snowstorm KoolAid.
They need to be labeled real quick. Oh I know I can invent “anti idol” as a term not known since the first century. And talk about hate. See just like da fodder in da verd.
I know it’s hard to think outside that box. I know you can only concentrate for 10 sec at a time on anything not directly from the collaterals.
But hey great indirect apology for David, who God told directly he would not inherit the kingdom due to his acts. It makes the same great excuse for TWI 1,2,3 which are replete with that nonsense.
Well it sounds like you're walking on eggshells around Wayfers/HQ.
Why not flip them the bird and go do something more enjoyable?
Which "them" do you mean?
When was the last time you had coffee or a long phone call with a TWI-4 person?
You seem to be convinced that TWI-4 is the same as the previous administrations. Do you take it on faith, or old TWI-3 or TWI-2 memories, or reports from other people?
As for me, I check these things out myself and face-to-face. There were years with TWI-2 and -3 where this is impossible. They were behind closed doors for fear of the grads, whenever I tried to contact them, which was once every few years. But that started changing a few years ago.
When was the last time you had coffee or a long phone call with a TWI-4 person?
You seem to be convinced that TWI-4 is the same as the previous administrations. Do you take it on faith, or old TWI-3 or TWI-2 memories, or reports from other people?
As for me, I check these things out myself and face-to-face. There were years with TWI-2 and -3 where this is impossible. They were behind closed doors for fear of the grads, whenever I tried to contact them, which was once every few years. But that started changing a few years ago.
The last time anyone would have coffee with the group that shunned them is never.
Put that in your golden calf VPW statue and produce some incense. Even if it smells bad at least it’s doing something rather than sitting there.
When was the last time you had coffee or a long phone call with a TWI-4 person?
You seem to be convinced that TWI-4 is the same as the previous administrations. Do you take it on faith, or old TWI-3 or TWI-2 memories, or reports from other people?
As for me, I check these things out myself and face-to-face. There were years with TWI-2 and -3 where this is impossible. They were behind closed doors for fear of the grads, whenever I tried to contact them, which was once every few years. But that started changing a few years ago.
I have family involved and I know others involved as well.
When was the last time you had coffee or a long phone call with a TWI-4 person?
You seem to be convinced that TWI-4 is the same as the previous administrations. Do you take it on faith, or old TWI-3 or TWI-2 memories, or reports from other people?
I guess you must have either been asleep, missed, or ignored all of the discussion between the RNR group, the mark and avoid by TWI 4 leadership.
Or you have an agenda to cover up those facts and proselytize.
The whole point is to deny a person the right to go with their gut or thoughts.
You can't trust you're own senses . . . you can't trust you're own thoughts . . . you can't trust your own conclusion . . . you can't use you're own intuition . . .
No, you just never got the full memo on trusting senses versus not trusting the senses. Either that or you forgot it.
We were taught that the 5-senses, the mind, sincerity, and 5-senses are not to be trusted when formulating doctrine, and rightly dividing the word.
That is foundational and for babes in the Word. But in the Advanced Class we were given 16 Keys for Walking in the Spirit.
I call Key #4 the key leaders like least. Many totally forget it's there in the AC.
What I am referring to is the qualifier that everyone forgets.
Key #4a is less forgotten. It is "Study the Word Much."
It's Key #4b that gets systematically lost in the shuffle.
Key #4b is:
"What you can know by your 5-senses God expects you to know."
All this talk about us being denied sincerity and feelings is baloney. It is only in doctrine discovery that they are in appropriate.
Also in the AC we were taught that sometimes God tells us thing that are just like natural 5-senses. Sometimes it is a smell sensation that God uses to give revelation, sometimes sight or sound. This was in the AC teaching that with Christ in us spirit comes Christ's eyes behind our eyes, Christ's ears behind our ears.... and so on.
Did you forget all those teachings on the usefulness of the 5-senses?
No, you just never got the full memo on trusting senses versus not trusting the senses. Either that or you forgot it.
We were taught that the 5-senses, the mind, sincerity, and 5-senses are not to be trusted when formulating doctrine, and rightly dividing the word.
That is foundational and for babes in the Word. But in the Advanced Class we were given 16 Keys for Walking in the Spirit.
I call Key #4 the key leaders like least. Many totally forget it's there in the AC.
What I am referring to is the qualifier that everyone forgets.
Key #4a is less forgotten. It is "Study the Word Much."
It's Key #4b that gets systematically lost in the shuffle.
Key #4b is:
"What you can know by your 5-senses God expects you to know."
All this talk about us being denied sincerity and feelings is baloney. It is only in doctrine discovery that they are in appropriate.
Also in the AC we were taught that sometimes God tells us thing that are just like natural 5-senses. Sometimes it is a smell sensation that God uses to give revelation, sometimes sight or sound. This was in the AC teaching that with Christ in us spirit comes Christ's eyes behind our eyes, Christ's ears behind our ears.... and so on.
Did you forget all those teachings on the usefulness of the 5-senses?
I have family involved and I know others involved as well.
I receive calls from others as well.
Please do let us know as the new TWI-4 filters up to them. I know this is going slower in some areas of the USA than in others. I also know some of the countries around the world are getting the news to lighten up later than us. There is a non-posting reader of GAS who contacted me about one country that seems to be years behind. I am looking for ways to intercede there. Is there still an International Outreach office at HQ.
It would really help me if I had names and extensions of some people there and how the departments are organized these days. Is that info pubic anywhere?
Yes. What's the advantage to dispensing with that common figure of speech or symbol for the entire sensory system of a human. This is not neuroscience so "5-senses" communicates just fine. Getting the number of senses accurate is not necessary. Do you realize that?
Not really..because the way international attaches spiritual significance to the number 5 and there "only" being five senses when in fact there are way more. Just another glaring contradiction in your wier-oligy.
Mike: TWI-4 is close to doing what you suggest, except the show the film class under very restricted conditions.
Nate: WITAFdoesthismean?!?!
Mike:
=======
Mike: Ihave all kinds of suggestions for them on this. One is that they sell a nice boxed set of the PFAL on dvd format. They could include a nice hard-bound transcript and sell the whole thing for $200.
I'll bet all the many grads with crumby VHS copies would be happy to get a high quality version of whatthey already have.
Nate: Wait. WTF?
After admitting to oodles and oodles of errors in the class, you are recommending repackaging this error laden class and selling it to unsuspecting dupes? With a transcript sothey can pull all their hair out sorting the allegedwheatfrom the obvious chaff? For $200!!!
Please do let us know as the new TWI-4 filters up to them. I know this is going slower in some areas of the USA than in others. I also know some of the countries around the world are getting the news to lighten up later than us. There is a non-posting reader of GAS who contacted me about one country that seems to be years behind. I am looking for ways to intercede there. Is there still an International Outreach office at HQ.
It would really help me if I had names and extensions of some people there and how the departments are organized these days. Is that info pubic anywhere?
Umm he already has let all of us know that family is some of the greatest source of trauma he has experienced.
If TWI 4 is as great as you say why isn’t that information public?
Why couldn’t you just call HQ directly to get it?
Maybe because TWI 4 has a different view of you than you do of them?
Please do let us know as the new TWI-4 filters up to them. I know this is going slower in some areas of the USA than in others. I also know some of the countries around the world are getting the news to lighten up later than us. There is a non-posting reader of GAS who contacted me about one country that seems to be years behind. I am looking for ways to intercede there. Is there still an International Outreach office at HQ.
It would really help me if I had names and extensions of some people there and how the departments are organized these days. Is that info pubic anywhere?
Ah, yes. Keys to walking by the spirit. Another bunch of useless mumbo jumbo. But, hey, look them over and cherry pick the ones that you seem to think make sense. You're free to choose.
Please do let us know as the new TWI-4 filters up to them. I know this is going slower in some areas of the USA than in others. I also know some of the countries around the world are getting the news to lighten up later than us. There is a non-posting reader of GAS who contacted me about one country that seems to be years behind. I am looking for ways to intercede there. Is there still an International Outreach office at HQ.
It would really help me if I had names and extensions of some people there and how the departments are organized these days. Is that info pubic anywhere?
I guess you must have either been asleep, missed, or ignored all of the discussion between the RNR group, the mark and avoid by TWI 4 leadership.
Or you have an agenda to cover up those facts and proselytize.
Neither is my agenda.
I did hear some of the RNR, but i did not know any of their names except Bob M. My impression is that the RNR thing happened in TWI-3.
TWI-3 was very secretive and insular. It was impossible to get info from them. That has changed with TWI-4. The behavior of local field people changed VERY radically, from all the contacts I have had with local field people from 1988 through 2018 approximately.
*/*/*/*/*
I am just now remembering more. I was at a Pentecost Limb meeting while Rosalee was still in. I remember distinctly the frustration on a leader's face as we discussed her. Then it was months lateror maybe a year that I hear Rosalee was out.
Can you give me an exact date for the beginning of TWI-4?
I want to find the exact date of that Pentecost meeting from my e-mail records, just to get a feel for the timeline here.
I tried reaching out to an old friend on facebook. He said if I had anything negative to say a "Dr." Wierwille he want nothing to do with me.
Any current TWI member I have run into won’t talk to me. They know I used to be Way Corps and now don’t stand with “the ministry” so any conversation is cursory at best while they mentally take notes to go back and recite how they stood against the adversary talking to a “cop out”.
I am blackballed and prevented from discussing anything with average TWI members. And the leadership are way too ch1ck3n sh1t to either contact me directly or engage on this platform.
Game over.
It is a hierarchy of Pharisees just like described in the book “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse”
Pharisees construct inner circles and only communicate within them so they don’t have the stress of dealing with non Pharisees. That’s your Way leadership.
And we can stop right there: imagination isn't appropriate in this case, though wierwille sure taught us to do just that.
The only legitimate comparison with David and wierwille is they both committed egregious sins with other men's wives and David repented and got right with God and wierwille didn't...he hid his sins...David didn't. wierwilles life is reproved by David's life because David truly was a man after God's own heart and wierwille wasn't.
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Twinky
Mike. Get this clear. I hate no-one. I hate ABUSE. Agape thinks no evil? Right. Agape calls evil out!! And I'm calling out the abuse that occurred and likely still occurs. That's not hate
chockfull
Okay reading thru this I find it hard to believe the lack of empathy. Mike is always looking to run down anyone who went thru the Corps as a problem. Actually, I don't find it hard t believe. The w
OldSkool
Correct! But a Christian organization that is all about material abundance is not a Christian orginazation at all because that's not what Christianity is about and its shameful to even attach Christ n
Bolshevik
Well it sounds like you're walking on eggshells around Wayfers/HQ.
Why not flip them the bird and go do something more enjoyable?
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Mike
Yes. What's the advantage to dispensing with that common figure of speech or symbol for the entire sensory system of a human. This is not neuroscience so "5-senses" communicates just fine. Getting the number of senses accurate is not necessary. Do you realize that?
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Bolshevik
Yep.
The whole point is to deny a person the right to go with their gut or thoughts.
You can't trust you're own senses . . . you can't trust you're own thoughts . . . you can't trust your own conclusion . . . you can't use you're own intuition . . .
OMG! Dust bunnies under the FRIDGE??? DEBIL SPURTS!! . . . RUNNN!!!!
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chockfull
What I try to imagine as a mental exercise is to form an opinion that comes from outside of PFAL and it’s influences.
I mean even by your fodder in da verd THE apostle for our day and time he recognized that there are Christians outside the Way.
They use GASP materials that aren’t sold in TWI bookstore. They read “commentaries” oh how devilish. They watch other denominational teachings. Oh how horrible returning to other ideas after drinking the snowstorm KoolAid.
They need to be labeled real quick. Oh I know I can invent “anti idol” as a term not known since the first century. And talk about hate. See just like da fodder in da verd.
I know it’s hard to think outside that box. I know you can only concentrate for 10 sec at a time on anything not directly from the collaterals.
But hey great indirect apology for David, who God told directly he would not inherit the kingdom due to his acts. It makes the same great excuse for TWI 1,2,3 which are replete with that nonsense.
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Mike
Which "them" do you mean?
When was the last time you had coffee or a long phone call with a TWI-4 person?
You seem to be convinced that TWI-4 is the same as the previous administrations. Do you take it on faith, or old TWI-3 or TWI-2 memories, or reports from other people?
As for me, I check these things out myself and face-to-face. There were years with TWI-2 and -3 where this is impossible. They were behind closed doors for fear of the grads, whenever I tried to contact them, which was once every few years. But that started changing a few years ago.
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chockfull
The last time anyone would have coffee with the group that shunned them is never.
Put that in your golden calf VPW statue and produce some incense. Even if it smells bad at least it’s doing something rather than sitting there.
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Bolshevik
I have family involved and I know others involved as well.
I receive calls from others as well.
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chockfull
I guess you must have either been asleep, missed, or ignored all of the discussion between the RNR group, the mark and avoid by TWI 4 leadership.
Or you have an agenda to cover up those facts and proselytize.
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Bolshevik
Everyone basically knows everyone . . . you could guess.
Maybe I'll start asking, "Hey . . . You know Mike?"
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Mike
No, you just never got the full memo on trusting senses versus not trusting the senses. Either that or you forgot it.
We were taught that the 5-senses, the mind, sincerity, and 5-senses are not to be trusted when formulating doctrine, and rightly dividing the word.
That is foundational and for babes in the Word. But in the Advanced Class we were given 16 Keys for Walking in the Spirit.
I call Key #4 the key leaders like least. Many totally forget it's there in the AC.
What I am referring to is the qualifier that everyone forgets.
Key #4a is less forgotten. It is "Study the Word Much."
It's Key #4b that gets systematically lost in the shuffle.
Key #4b is:
"What you can know by your 5-senses God expects you to know."
All this talk about us being denied sincerity and feelings is baloney. It is only in doctrine discovery that they are in appropriate.
Also in the AC we were taught that sometimes God tells us thing that are just like natural 5-senses. Sometimes it is a smell sensation that God uses to give revelation, sometimes sight or sound. This was in the AC teaching that with Christ in us spirit comes Christ's eyes behind our eyes, Christ's ears behind our ears.... and so on.
Did you forget all those teachings on the usefulness of the 5-senses?
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chockfull
Sorry cultists no matter which Batdad chart is truth in your mind
My Lord and Savior is and never will be a lifeless iron man suit constructed to pass along smells.
Cult doctrine smells bad without the suit.
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Bolshevik
RANDOM LINK
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Mike
Please do let us know as the new TWI-4 filters up to them. I know this is going slower in some areas of the USA than in others. I also know some of the countries around the world are getting the news to lighten up later than us. There is a non-posting reader of GAS who contacted me about one country that seems to be years behind. I am looking for ways to intercede there. Is there still an International Outreach office at HQ.
It would really help me if I had names and extensions of some people there and how the departments are organized these days. Is that info pubic anywhere?
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OldSkool
Not really..because the way international attaches spiritual significance to the number 5 and there "only" being five senses when in fact there are way more. Just another glaring contradiction in your wier-oligy.
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Nathan_Jr
Mike: TWI-4 is close to doing what you suggest, except the show the film class under very restricted conditions.
Nate: WITAF does this mean?!?!
Mike:
=======
Mike: I have all kinds of suggestions for them on this. One is that they sell a nice boxed set of the PFAL on dvd format. They could include a nice hard-bound transcript and sell the whole thing for $200.
I'll bet all the many grads with crumby VHS copies would be happy to get a high quality version of what they already have.
Nate: Wait. WTF?
After admitting to oodles and oodles of errors in the class, you are recommending repackaging this error laden class and selling it to unsuspecting dupes? With a transcript so they can pull all their hair out sorting the alleged wheat from the obvious chaff? For $200!!!
This is the deceiver's game
Mike:
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waysider
I tried reaching out to an old friend on facebook. He said if I had anything negative to say a "Dr." Wierwille he wants nothing to do with me.
Edited by waysiderspelling
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chockfull
Umm he already has let all of us know that family is some of the greatest source of trauma he has experienced.
If TWI 4 is as great as you say why isn’t that information public?
Why couldn’t you just call HQ directly to get it?
Maybe because TWI 4 has a different view of you than you do of them?
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Bolshevik
I thought you were involved?
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waysider
Ah, yes. Keys to walking by the spirit. Another bunch of useless mumbo jumbo. But, hey, look them over and cherry pick the ones that you seem to think make sense. You're free to choose.
La Maka See Yay.
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Bolshevik
Seriously WTF . . .
Is Mike a verified human?
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Mike
Neither is my agenda.
I did hear some of the RNR, but i did not know any of their names except Bob M. My impression is that the RNR thing happened in TWI-3.
TWI-3 was very secretive and insular. It was impossible to get info from them. That has changed with TWI-4. The behavior of local field people changed VERY radically, from all the contacts I have had with local field people from 1988 through 2018 approximately.
*/*/*/*/*
I am just now remembering more. I was at a Pentecost Limb meeting while Rosalee was still in. I remember distinctly the frustration on a leader's face as we discussed her. Then it was months lateror maybe a year that I hear Rosalee was out.
Can you give me an exact date for the beginning of TWI-4?
I want to find the exact date of that Pentecost meeting from my e-mail records, just to get a feel for the timeline here.
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chockfull
Any current TWI member I have run into won’t talk to me. They know I used to be Way Corps and now don’t stand with “the ministry” so any conversation is cursory at best while they mentally take notes to go back and recite how they stood against the adversary talking to a “cop out”.
I am blackballed and prevented from discussing anything with average TWI members. And the leadership are way too ch1ck3n sh1t to either contact me directly or engage on this platform.
Game over.
It is a hierarchy of Pharisees just like described in the book “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse”
Pharisees construct inner circles and only communicate within them so they don’t have the stress of dealing with non Pharisees. That’s your Way leadership.
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chockfull
No. Possibly an alt account of an inner leader. But that will get you 20 pages of protest suggesting it.
At times he seems too dense to be a real person. Comes off like an alter ego of a person with other motivation.
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OldSkool
And we can stop right there: imagination isn't appropriate in this case, though wierwille sure taught us to do just that.
The only legitimate comparison with David and wierwille is they both committed egregious sins with other men's wives and David repented and got right with God and wierwille didn't...he hid his sins...David didn't. wierwilles life is reproved by David's life because David truly was a man after God's own heart and wierwille wasn't.
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