You saw none of this dragging motion after the RNR folks posted up their confrontation and demands.
The shunning occurred fairly immediately.
Also if they decide they don't want someone on staff, or in the WC, any longer. They'll be out of there within hours, without the opportunity to see anyone or say goodbye.
How many "members" of TWI do you (rhetorical plural) hang out with and discuss things in a civil manner? Do you have ANY fellowship or civil discussions with TWI people? If it is zero, then WHY? Why not try the love way?
If it is zero, then my suggestions to you all are a new approach, an un-turned stone.
I have tried and was shunned and ignored because I no longer am way corps and no longer support/fellowship with TWI.
The proposal I have made to several TWI leaders (not all official leaders, but all long-standing and smart) is what all high tech companies use for handling changes in complicated, highly detailed products. I'm talking about ECNs, or Engineering Change Notices. I've been writting about this for so long now that I have learned to spell Schoenheit correctly!
Mike, I don't doubt that you have good ideas and ideas that are appropriate to the problem. The problem with talking to leadership is it will go nowhere at all, ever. Even if the leadership you are conversing with actually sends the suggestions up the way tree it will go nowhere at all...unless what they are doing is perceived as an effort to convert TWI people then there will be a swift mark and avoid decision, as in the case of RNR folks.
The way international puts out a false front that they are amenable to suggestions; except they aren't. The directors will continue to run TWI the same way they have for years now, especially after they have spent all that money to lawsuit proof themselves. I was way corps and on the presidents cabinet and can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not and will not take your suggestions. Why do I mention way corps? Because you, thankfully - for your own sake - (not being insulting here), were never corps. There's two faces with the way corps. The official one they present to the ministry and the real way corps that has a lot of delegated responsibility with very little actual authority. As a member of the cabinet I had very little actual authority besides what was delegated to keep my areas of responsibility functioninc smoothly. Think of it this way: There are leaders and there are managers. Managers work within a very limited framework to make others more effecient and successful in their jobs. Leaders have authority and responsibility and can make actual changes and steer everyone towards a common goal...perhaps oversimplified definitions but Im speaking about the way corps...most every way corps positions below the director/officer level is a management spot. The directors do not care for your feedback.
I don't hang out with any Wayfers, ex or otherwise. Not many near me, but there was a small bunch, led by a self-proclaimed Rev, no qualifications of any type, listened to nobody.
I'd known these people for some time. They didn't want to listen to a thing about what I said of TWI. Most still thought it a wonderful ministry that "taught them God's word" but had never visited Ohio or seen anything outside of their local area. They thought I was being mean and bitter, instead of being deeply hurt and injured. I needed to "move on." They could not believe a thing about the corruption and behind-the-scenes behaviour. One lad wanted to join Sowers. I took him aside and warned him what it was likely to be. He persisted. However, he didn't go because he couldn't get the visa. I think God was at work there, to protect him.
The self-proclaimed Rev fell out with me because I refused to support him "ordaining" his sister in law. She was a nice lass, but hadn't read more than the epistles and taken PFAL a couple of times. He "marked and avoided" me and sent a totally vile deranged email to everyone and every organisation, worldwide, in his e-address book (what might his bank and the local hardware, grocery, and similar shops thought?). He got sick, was placed in a hospice, discharged himself and went off to CFFM to pray for healing. Didn't tell his wife what he was doing. He died there. A memorial service was held later, which I attended. Last I saw of any of them.
They're not interested in me; I'm not interested in them. I only have so much time available and I'd rather spend it with people who have hearts open to the work of God, are willing to act, and who don't try to railroad me into TWI-way or no-way.
No. Any such policy needs to be available to any person involved at any level.
That means from twig (home fellowship, is it now?) level upwards. If someone is over-touchy at twig, who should that be reported to? Twig leader, initially, but if no response there - or if it is the twig leader?
If someone is on staff, there needs to be a clear path to whistle-blow on offenders. And that's a clear path to someone with appropriate authority to take serious action. Preferably someone external.
Yeah, right...!
I agree. The staff handbook only applies to paid staff. There are no protections in place for any volunteer position or field follower period. Nothing. Field way corps are harassed and pushed around all sorts of ways that never happen on staff anylonger. Keep in mind too that a harassment policy in their staff handbook is a system of redress that is designed to protect both employee and employer. They put that harassment policy in place to cover their own butts, otherwise as you noted, those efforts would have trickled out the field. There is no clear path to report anything besides your local leadership. If someone tries to send complaints up the way tree it will most likely not go much further than the limb leadership....field way corps know full well that if they report problems in their area that they will be blamed for those problems wheter they are culpable or not so there is a cover your foot culture embedded within leadership.
Then GSC did a good job duplicating Waydale for posterity, and published the Schoenheit paper, and then discussed it for years and years.
Thats because under terms of the settlement with the @llen$ waydale had to close. So they did a document dump and washed their hands of being webmasters. GSC stepped in to continue that work --- work that wouldnt be necessary if TWI wasn't a deceptive, abusive cult.
Your phrase "teach to it" seems to capture the essence of my proposal, but I think it might be tweakable to make it even more efficacious. Right now, as is, it is pretty effective.
Yes, it's a great method IF its not the only action. TWI has no accountability and they refuse to be accountable. Mike - I saw the coverup and whitewash first hand for 8 years...its till going on today but for 8 years I saw it first hand and was supportive of it and involved. That's why I post here - I will not be included in their sins by my quiet support...and quiet support would be just what I would be giving them if I were to silently walk away.
That's why I post here - I will not be included in their sins by my quiet support...and quiet support would be just what I would be giving them if I were to silently walk away.
Also if they decide they don't want someone on staff, or in the WC, any longer. They'll be out of there within hours, without the opportunity to see anyone or say goodbye.
Ralph D, to name one, was given the "bums-rush" out- he was forbidden to interact with anyone, and was kicked off-grounds within a few hours. Yes, they had him guarded to make sure he didn't speak to anyone.
there's an assumption about the GSC that completely ignores why it's here. Your assumption is- unless we're interacting directly with people in twi, the GSC isn't getting anything done" is NOT borne out by the evidence.
The GSC has been very effective in reaching two groups of people, each in a different way.
A) The GSC has been there for ex-twi to learn about things hidden from them, and how life can continue WELL after twi, no matter what lcm said. Many posters have come forth attesting to how important the GSC has been in that department. (I don't remember giving it the credit before, but I'll say now that it helped me a lot post-twi.
B) The GSC has been there for current twi to read while still in twi. twi tells them that their lives are forfeit if they leave twi. Then they visit a website where ex-twi people prosper and lead happy lives, often leaving the website behind when it suits them. They also read all sorts of things twi has hidden from them, and learn the truth about many things. Many posters have come forth attesting to how important the GSC has been in that department.
The GSC has made a lasting difference in the lives of MANY people, and been a reason many left twi or never returned to twi.
If you want to have a chat with people in twi, and have them blow smoke and claim something will change in twi, well, that's your privilege. I'd rather actually make the difference by people leaving twi entirely- which has happened to plenty of people who were in twi, and then started reading around here.
BTW, it is still possible for people IN twi to post here. They can remain anonymous and just have us know them by their thoughts- based on what they post. We've even extended an invitation to do that to lcm if he ever wanted to join.
So far, neither they nor JAL ever excepted an invite. In the case of JAL, it was clearly the result of not wanting to communicate anywhere he could not control the microphone. I expect twi people have the same problem, lcm included.
Ralph D, to name one, was given the "bums-rush" out- he was forbidden to interact with anyone, and was kicked off-grounds within a few hours. Yes, they had him guarded to make sure he didn't speak to anyone.
I was thinking of Ralph's departure (preceded by being imprisoned in his trailer home) when I wrote that.
But also, when I was in rez, I witnessed the departure of several of my fellow in-rez WC. Once, I saw one male packing his stuff, and writing a mandatory letter of apology to LCM. He had a known physical disability and I don't know if that's why he was kicked out after a few weeks or months. He was a lovely lad with a big heart. I'm supposing it was his walking problem that caused his departure, because he was allowed to be in contact with us pending his leaving.
Others simply disappeared while the rest of the in-rez Corps were engaged in work activities or some such. They were there in the morning, and in the evening - gone. Next morning at breakfast there might be a character assassination for half an hour or so about the horrendous conduct that the departee was supposed to have done.
Other graduated WC were purged for various offences and then character assassinated in a WC meeting or at a "lunchtime sharing." Some of the allegations I know were untrue. These purged people included at least two whose close family members had recently died (it was their lack of believing, you know). And worse, everyone was forbidden to contact these bereaved people to offer comfort on pain of being purged themselves.
So yes. TWI can act very fast when it wants to. But it has to want to.
But it prefers self-protective mode and will close ranks very fast when it wants to, to protect leaders and income stream.
Ralph D, to name one, was given the "bums-rush" out- he was forbidden to interact with anyone, and was kicked off-grounds within a few hours. Yes, they had him guarded to make sure he didn't speak to anyone.
Every single stupid generation of TWI presidents has more than one instance of this exact type of thing happening.
This is not coincidence. What does an especially frail ego go along with the office? Do they take a certain pill like in the Matrix that is a scorched earth @$$hole pill?
This is not a Christian minister that behaves in this fashion towards another Christian over a differing opinion. This is a conscience seared idiot with a huge and frail ego.
The Christian doing that study highlights how self serving people all fall into conflict. The reason for all of these horrible incidents we all have witnessed is self serving leadership who refuses to subjugate their ego and serve others. There will always be a breaking point with th me TWI leader that causes the scorched earth response.
It very much resembles the behavior of the petulant child Elon Musk in the business world. Huge ego, over inflated sense of importance, a lot of money power and prestige and uses everyone around to appease his tantrums. The only people still working at Twitter are those with no other options like H1B visas
I guess this is another reason you will never see a high level leader in TWI darken the doors of GSC.
So many potential lawsuits over admitting anything was wrong. How many scorched earth scenarios do you think these clowns are going to have to go through at the bema in front of our Lord Jesus Christ?
So, VP, Craig, RR, John Rupp, Vern, what happened in this replay we are watching here?
Do you think the shame of loss in the next life will affect them like it hasn’t in this one?
The new generation voted out the old generation then immediately feels not responsible for the sins of those they voted out.
So more whitewash, and another incremental numeral in front of the Way - 1,2,3,4
More lies and coverups. And the same trail of destruction in the lives of the people, some of whom hang around ashamed and broken begging for a scrap of attention.
This is why the Bible teaches that you can’t put new wine in and old wineskin. But that verse is ignored along with so many other teachings of Jesus due to the hyper focus on Paul and some Batdad charts. Not to mention the entitlement and self preservation.
But that verse is ignored along with so many other teachings of Jesus due to the hyper focus on Paul and some Batdad charts.
FOr whatever reason I never realized that VPW was likely disparaging the gospels in favor of other books due to his disdain for Jesus Christ...I mean he did make Jesus Christ absent to the way international. Jesus Christ is a name sake to that organization and other than that they want nothing to do with him.
FOr whatever reason I never realized that VPW was likely disparaging the gospels in favor of other books due to his disdain for Jesus Christ...I mean he did make Jesus Christ absent to the way international. Jesus Christ is a name sake to that organization and other than that they want nothing to do with him.
It took a while of piecing things together before I saw TWI as anti Christ.
I never even considered a fundamentalist Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry built around the study of scripture could actually be against Christs purposes.
But Christs purpose in the Bible is to have all His followers united together figuratively working together like the human body does.
And this is not possible with elitist fundamentalist cults. The elitist attitude and false doctrines practically prevent them from fellowshipping fully with other Christians or working with other Christians organizations.
Rather it leads to isolation like Twinkys former Way friends who died seeking healing in an offshoot.
never even considered a fundamentalist Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry built around the study of scripture could actually be against Christs purposes.
Same here...I think I was buffalo'd cause they drop his name so much..talk about his accomplished works and then excuse him from the party...actually they are excusing themselves from the party.
The FellowLaborers program was promoted as being built on the book of Acts. As part of the program, we were to read Ephesians every day. The Way shied away from the OT and treated the Gospels like they were too elementary for the truly enlightened. What's the commonality here? Here's a hint. It's not Jesus Christ or his teachings. Modern Christianity, for the most part, is not about Christ. Modern Christianity is built on the cornerstone of Paul's letters. It's not about what Jesus said, it's about what Paul said. When Jesus is mentioned, it's often as an addendum. What does all that mean? I'm not sure. It's food for thought.
The same people can also google "affairs are good for marriage". And find justification there.
The person low enough to use the compliment (not!) that "you're spiritually mature enough to meet the (sexual) needs of the man of God or of a leader" in order to assault or rape someone would be low enough to justify to themselves it was also "good for their marriage."
The person low enough to use the compliment (not!) that "you're spiritually mature enough to meet the (sexual) needs of the man of God or of a leader" in order to assault or rape someone would be low enough to justify to themselves it was also "good for their marriage."
"Spiritual" is one of the ubiquitous overused terms that meant whatever it needed to in order to distort one's reality.
FOr whatever reason I never realized that VPW was likely disparaging the gospels in favor of other books due to his disdain for Jesus Christ...I mean he did make Jesus Christ absent to the way international. Jesus Christ is a name sake to that organization and other than that they want nothing to do with him.
I kinda lost sight of Jesus Christ while in TWI. Got "God-focused" but lost "Jesus-focus." Even now, I'm not very sure, not as Jesus-focused as those around me. Am I missing something? Or someone?
"Jesus" is some kind of talisman name in TWI. And Wayfers can have amazing discussions about whether wording should be "Jesus Christ" or "Christ Jesus," the difference between these two styles of address, and other such nonsense, without ever seriously studying the books about the Man's life and actions. Wayfers might read a bit here or there, even have a bash at a "harmony of the gospels" - but in depth looking at the Man's lifestyle, his prayers, his words generally? Nah, that's for someone else, y'know, the people in the churches and denominations.
If Jesus is the fulfilment of the law for righteousness, what laws did he fulfil? How? What Wayfers look at that? What Wayfers consider the OT? And the OT's relevance to us now? Because that does still have relevance to what we do now. And (Wayfers! here's news!) Jesus has relevance to our lives now, too!
I reject the sledghammer approach favored here. Hate gets us nowhere, and it makes the hater become what is focused on as a hate object.
You you want any solutions, or would a solution to this problem disrupt the hate religion, the anti-idol worship, that is so loved by many here? Hate blinds people, it's time to open eyes here and try some better methods.
I have to strongly disagree with you using words like "sledgehammer, hate, rumor mills and loving anti-idol worship" (not sure what it is but it sounds bad). Posters on GSC are not dealing with rainbows and cupcakes. They are dealing with some pretty dark and nasty sh* t which people have experienced because of their involvement with twi. Why won't you try, Mike, to walk in the shoes of those who post on GSC (many of whom are former corps members) or the shoes of Charlene Edge and Kristen Skedgell? If you did, you would better understand what people say on GSC. Disagreeing with them by saying things like "well, it wasn't so bad where I was" or "I never saw any of those things happen" just doesn't cut it. Sticking one's head in the sand is not a viable excuse for pleading ignorance about twi's behavior when the facts are readily available in Charlene and Kristen's books.
If you don't want to understand and accept where we are coming from on GSC, at least do not call it hate. In my opinion, what you are seeing here is righteous anger, concern and pain - not hate.
- Righteous anger not only because we know from experience what ungodly things happened in twi (especially those who were in the corps), but also because these things that oppose God continue to be covered up, whitewashed and denied by people who are still promoting twi.
- Concern for twi people who have left or are still involved who are struggling with fear, grief, confusion, anger, self-doubt, suicidal thoughts...the list goes on and on. They are fighting for these believers who seriously need the validation, help and support that GSC gives.
- Pain can be frustrating and upsetting when the hurt we feel in our own lives or in the lives of others should never have happened in the first place if the leaders had loved as Jesus loved.
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Charity
I have to strongly disagree with you using words like "sledgehammer, hate, rumor mills and loving anti-idol worship" (not sure what it is but it sounds bad). Posters on GSC are not dealing with rainbo
chockfull
What I want to know is if I order my normal wedge salad that I prefer with a steak, and it never touches the microwave at all, am I still possessed?
WordWolf
"Rumor mill" is actually a pretty good description of twi, and it has been for almost its entire history. vpw himself started that off- he listened in to the Liberty Lobby and John Birch Society and p
Twinky
Also if they decide they don't want someone on staff, or in the WC, any longer. They'll be out of there within hours, without the opportunity to see anyone or say goodbye.
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OldSkool
I have tried and was shunned and ignored because I no longer am way corps and no longer support/fellowship with TWI.
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OldSkool
Mike, I don't doubt that you have good ideas and ideas that are appropriate to the problem. The problem with talking to leadership is it will go nowhere at all, ever. Even if the leadership you are conversing with actually sends the suggestions up the way tree it will go nowhere at all...unless what they are doing is perceived as an effort to convert TWI people then there will be a swift mark and avoid decision, as in the case of RNR folks.
The way international puts out a false front that they are amenable to suggestions; except they aren't. The directors will continue to run TWI the same way they have for years now, especially after they have spent all that money to lawsuit proof themselves. I was way corps and on the presidents cabinet and can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not and will not take your suggestions. Why do I mention way corps? Because you, thankfully - for your own sake - (not being insulting here), were never corps. There's two faces with the way corps. The official one they present to the ministry and the real way corps that has a lot of delegated responsibility with very little actual authority. As a member of the cabinet I had very little actual authority besides what was delegated to keep my areas of responsibility functioninc smoothly. Think of it this way: There are leaders and there are managers. Managers work within a very limited framework to make others more effecient and successful in their jobs. Leaders have authority and responsibility and can make actual changes and steer everyone towards a common goal...perhaps oversimplified definitions but Im speaking about the way corps...most every way corps positions below the director/officer level is a management spot. The directors do not care for your feedback.
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Twinky
I don't hang out with any Wayfers, ex or otherwise. Not many near me, but there was a small bunch, led by a self-proclaimed Rev, no qualifications of any type, listened to nobody.
I'd known these people for some time. They didn't want to listen to a thing about what I said of TWI. Most still thought it a wonderful ministry that "taught them God's word" but had never visited Ohio or seen anything outside of their local area. They thought I was being mean and bitter, instead of being deeply hurt and injured. I needed to "move on." They could not believe a thing about the corruption and behind-the-scenes behaviour. One lad wanted to join Sowers. I took him aside and warned him what it was likely to be. He persisted. However, he didn't go because he couldn't get the visa. I think God was at work there, to protect him.
The self-proclaimed Rev fell out with me because I refused to support him "ordaining" his sister in law. She was a nice lass, but hadn't read more than the epistles and taken PFAL a couple of times. He "marked and avoided" me and sent a totally vile deranged email to everyone and every organisation, worldwide, in his e-address book (what might his bank and the local hardware, grocery, and similar shops thought?). He got sick, was placed in a hospice, discharged himself and went off to CFFM to pray for healing. Didn't tell his wife what he was doing. He died there. A memorial service was held later, which I attended. Last I saw of any of them.
They're not interested in me; I'm not interested in them. I only have so much time available and I'd rather spend it with people who have hearts open to the work of God, are willing to act, and who don't try to railroad me into TWI-way or no-way.
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OldSkool
I agree. The staff handbook only applies to paid staff. There are no protections in place for any volunteer position or field follower period. Nothing. Field way corps are harassed and pushed around all sorts of ways that never happen on staff anylonger. Keep in mind too that a harassment policy in their staff handbook is a system of redress that is designed to protect both employee and employer. They put that harassment policy in place to cover their own butts, otherwise as you noted, those efforts would have trickled out the field. There is no clear path to report anything besides your local leadership. If someone tries to send complaints up the way tree it will most likely not go much further than the limb leadership....field way corps know full well that if they report problems in their area that they will be blamed for those problems wheter they are culpable or not so there is a cover your foot culture embedded within leadership.
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OldSkool
Thats because under terms of the settlement with the @llen$ waydale had to close. So they did a document dump and washed their hands of being webmasters. GSC stepped in to continue that work --- work that wouldnt be necessary if TWI wasn't a deceptive, abusive cult.
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OldSkool
Yes, it's a great method IF its not the only action. TWI has no accountability and they refuse to be accountable. Mike - I saw the coverup and whitewash first hand for 8 years...its till going on today but for 8 years I saw it first hand and was supportive of it and involved. That's why I post here - I will not be included in their sins by my quiet support...and quiet support would be just what I would be giving them if I were to silently walk away.
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Twinky
Bravo, OldSkool.
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OldSkool
Thanks!!
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WordWolf
Ralph D, to name one, was given the "bums-rush" out- he was forbidden to interact with anyone, and was kicked off-grounds within a few hours. Yes, they had him guarded to make sure he didn't speak to anyone.
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WordWolf
Mike,
there's an assumption about the GSC that completely ignores why it's here. Your assumption is- unless we're interacting directly with people in twi, the GSC isn't getting anything done" is NOT borne out by the evidence.
The GSC has been very effective in reaching two groups of people, each in a different way.
A) The GSC has been there for ex-twi to learn about things hidden from them, and how life can continue WELL after twi, no matter what lcm said. Many posters have come forth attesting to how important the GSC has been in that department. (I don't remember giving it the credit before, but I'll say now that it helped me a lot post-twi.
B) The GSC has been there for current twi to read while still in twi. twi tells them that their lives are forfeit if they leave twi. Then they visit a website where ex-twi people prosper and lead happy lives, often leaving the website behind when it suits them. They also read all sorts of things twi has hidden from them, and learn the truth about many things. Many posters have come forth attesting to how important the GSC has been in that department.
The GSC has made a lasting difference in the lives of MANY people, and been a reason many left twi or never returned to twi.
If you want to have a chat with people in twi, and have them blow smoke and claim something will change in twi, well, that's your privilege. I'd rather actually make the difference by people leaving twi entirely- which has happened to plenty of people who were in twi, and then started reading around here.
BTW, it is still possible for people IN twi to post here. They can remain anonymous and just have us know them by their thoughts- based on what they post. We've even extended an invitation to do that to lcm if he ever wanted to join.
So far, neither they nor JAL ever excepted an invite. In the case of JAL, it was clearly the result of not wanting to communicate anywhere he could not control the microphone. I expect twi people have the same problem, lcm included.
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Twinky
I was thinking of Ralph's departure (preceded by being imprisoned in his trailer home) when I wrote that.
But also, when I was in rez, I witnessed the departure of several of my fellow in-rez WC. Once, I saw one male packing his stuff, and writing a mandatory letter of apology to LCM. He had a known physical disability and I don't know if that's why he was kicked out after a few weeks or months. He was a lovely lad with a big heart. I'm supposing it was his walking problem that caused his departure, because he was allowed to be in contact with us pending his leaving.
Others simply disappeared while the rest of the in-rez Corps were engaged in work activities or some such. They were there in the morning, and in the evening - gone. Next morning at breakfast there might be a character assassination for half an hour or so about the horrendous conduct that the departee was supposed to have done.
Other graduated WC were purged for various offences and then character assassinated in a WC meeting or at a "lunchtime sharing." Some of the allegations I know were untrue. These purged people included at least two whose close family members had recently died (it was their lack of believing, you know). And worse, everyone was forbidden to contact these bereaved people to offer comfort on pain of being purged themselves.
So yes. TWI can act very fast when it wants to. But it has to want to.
But it prefers self-protective mode and will close ranks very fast when it wants to, to protect leaders and income stream.
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chockfull
Every single stupid generation of TWI presidents has more than one instance of this exact type of thing happening.
This is not coincidence. What does an especially frail ego go along with the office? Do they take a certain pill like in the Matrix that is a scorched earth @$$hole pill?
This is not a Christian minister that behaves in this fashion towards another Christian over a differing opinion. This is a conscience seared idiot with a huge and frail ego.
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chockfull
This study on Galatians 5:15 talks about the fallacies of frail egos like this.
https://www.bibleref.com/Galatians/5/Galatians-5-15.html
The Christian doing that study highlights how self serving people all fall into conflict. The reason for all of these horrible incidents we all have witnessed is self serving leadership who refuses to subjugate their ego and serve others. There will always be a breaking point with th me TWI leader that causes the scorched earth response.
It very much resembles the behavior of the petulant child Elon Musk in the business world. Huge ego, over inflated sense of importance, a lot of money power and prestige and uses everyone around to appease his tantrums. The only people still working at Twitter are those with no other options like H1B visas
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chockfull
I guess this is another reason you will never see a high level leader in TWI darken the doors of GSC.
So many potential lawsuits over admitting anything was wrong. How many scorched earth scenarios do you think these clowns are going to have to go through at the bema in front of our Lord Jesus Christ?
So, VP, Craig, RR, John Rupp, Vern, what happened in this replay we are watching here?
Do you think the shame of loss in the next life will affect them like it hasn’t in this one?
The new generation voted out the old generation then immediately feels not responsible for the sins of those they voted out.
So more whitewash, and another incremental numeral in front of the Way - 1,2,3,4
More lies and coverups. And the same trail of destruction in the lives of the people, some of whom hang around ashamed and broken begging for a scrap of attention.
This is why the Bible teaches that you can’t put new wine in and old wineskin. But that verse is ignored along with so many other teachings of Jesus due to the hyper focus on Paul and some Batdad charts. Not to mention the entitlement and self preservation.
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Twinky
Nice, Chocky.
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OldSkool
FOr whatever reason I never realized that VPW was likely disparaging the gospels in favor of other books due to his disdain for Jesus Christ...I mean he did make Jesus Christ absent to the way international. Jesus Christ is a name sake to that organization and other than that they want nothing to do with him.
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chockfull
It took a while of piecing things together before I saw TWI as anti Christ.
I never even considered a fundamentalist Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry built around the study of scripture could actually be against Christs purposes.
But Christs purpose in the Bible is to have all His followers united together figuratively working together like the human body does.
And this is not possible with elitist fundamentalist cults. The elitist attitude and false doctrines practically prevent them from fellowshipping fully with other Christians or working with other Christians organizations.
Rather it leads to isolation like Twinkys former Way friends who died seeking healing in an offshoot.
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OldSkool
Same here...I think I was buffalo'd cause they drop his name so much..talk about his accomplished works and then excuse him from the party...actually they are excusing themselves from the party.
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waysider
The FellowLaborers program was promoted as being built on the book of Acts. As part of the program, we were to read Ephesians every day. The Way shied away from the OT and treated the Gospels like they were too elementary for the truly enlightened. What's the commonality here? Here's a hint. It's not Jesus Christ or his teachings. Modern Christianity, for the most part, is not about Christ. Modern Christianity is built on the cornerstone of Paul's letters. It's not about what Jesus said, it's about what Paul said. When Jesus is mentioned, it's often as an addendum. What does all that mean? I'm not sure. It's food for thought.
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Charity
The person low enough to use the compliment (not!) that "you're spiritually mature enough to meet the (sexual) needs of the man of God or of a leader" in order to assault or rape someone would be low enough to justify to themselves it was also "good for their marriage."
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Bolshevik
"Spiritual" is one of the ubiquitous overused terms that meant whatever it needed to in order to distort one's reality.
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Twinky
I kinda lost sight of Jesus Christ while in TWI. Got "God-focused" but lost "Jesus-focus." Even now, I'm not very sure, not as Jesus-focused as those around me. Am I missing something? Or someone?
"Jesus" is some kind of talisman name in TWI. And Wayfers can have amazing discussions about whether wording should be "Jesus Christ" or "Christ Jesus," the difference between these two styles of address, and other such nonsense, without ever seriously studying the books about the Man's life and actions. Wayfers might read a bit here or there, even have a bash at a "harmony of the gospels" - but in depth looking at the Man's lifestyle, his prayers, his words generally? Nah, that's for someone else, y'know, the people in the churches and denominations.
If Jesus is the fulfilment of the law for righteousness, what laws did he fulfil? How? What Wayfers look at that? What Wayfers consider the OT? And the OT's relevance to us now? Because that does still have relevance to what we do now. And (Wayfers! here's news!) Jesus has relevance to our lives now, too!
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Charity
I have to strongly disagree with you using words like "sledgehammer, hate, rumor mills and loving anti-idol worship" (not sure what it is but it sounds bad). Posters on GSC are not dealing with rainbows and cupcakes. They are dealing with some pretty dark and nasty sh* t which people have experienced because of their involvement with twi. Why won't you try, Mike, to walk in the shoes of those who post on GSC (many of whom are former corps members) or the shoes of Charlene Edge and Kristen Skedgell? If you did, you would better understand what people say on GSC. Disagreeing with them by saying things like "well, it wasn't so bad where I was" or "I never saw any of those things happen" just doesn't cut it. Sticking one's head in the sand is not a viable excuse for pleading ignorance about twi's behavior when the facts are readily available in Charlene and Kristen's books.
If you don't want to understand and accept where we are coming from on GSC, at least do not call it hate. In my opinion, what you are seeing here is righteous anger, concern and pain - not hate.
- Righteous anger not only because we know from experience what ungodly things happened in twi (especially those who were in the corps), but also because these things that oppose God continue to be covered up, whitewashed and denied by people who are still promoting twi.
- Concern for twi people who have left or are still involved who are struggling with fear, grief, confusion, anger, self-doubt, suicidal thoughts...the list goes on and on. They are fighting for these believers who seriously need the validation, help and support that GSC gives.
- Pain can be frustrating and upsetting when the hurt we feel in our own lives or in the lives of others should never have happened in the first place if the leaders had loved as Jesus loved.
Edited by CharityTo add "In my opinion"
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