You read me wrong. I am trying to wrap up my posts on this thread to leave for other projects. Stop responding to every nit and nat you don't like from me, and you will help me leave this thread.
I am ready to STOP responding on this thread, especially to every nit and nat against me personally. I think I have posted all the important things I wanted to on this topic. Please continue without me. Bye.
You read me wrong. I am trying to wrap up my posts on this thread to leave for other projects. Stop responding to every nit and nat you don't like from me, and you will help me leave this thread.
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Me distracting ?????
There is not a single post from me here that forces you to read it. You have a PgDn key on your keyboard for that.
Just ignore my posts if you find them distracting. Take some advice from Rocky.
You read me wrong. I am trying to wrap up my posts on this thread to leave for other projects. Stop responding to every nit and nat you don't like from me, and you will help me leave this thread.
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Me distracting ?????
There is not a single post from me here that forces you to read it. You have a PgDn key on your keyboard for that.
Just ignore my posts if you find them distracting. Take some advice from Rocky.
Read my reasons why in my long post to So_crates, above.
I am not stupid and they are not love bombing me. They listen to the issues I bring up, and sometimes disagree with me. Because we have many common goals and beliefs, we both respect each others' rights to differ.
Example: I would toss out phrases like "the ministry meltdown" referring to 1986, and I could see a few flinch and object to my impressions of what happened then. I respect this objection and ask them why they feel that way. I tell them why I feel it was a meltdown.
Then we continue our respectful conversation (not debate) and we both discover that my old "marble cake model" of the ministry applies here. Some areas did indeed melt down and some did not. Some were isolated from the mess, and continued to minister to new people. Many were not so isolated (like my area) and things went haywire. Now when I sparingly use the phrase "ministry meltdown" they understand and don't flinch or object. They understand my position, and I understand theirs.
As former Way Corps I also dealt with people returning to TWI. And listened to them b1tch about the leadership. And protected them from the next layers of overseers.
They are accommodating you to fulfill a goal. Part of that goal is to call people back to PFAL. And show increase in their reports.
oh they’re not like that. Sorry every evidence of the fruit of their decisions show them to be every bit as self preserving as their predecessors.
Please remember that people can change AND that there is a whole new generation taking over TWI.
People can be genuine, but with the huge pileup of issues they have to deal with, I am satisfied with going slow, and working on the easy topics first.
I am EXTREMELY interested in the "Just the way it was” item you mentioned, and is it a tape or a written document. I will ask around about it, and it would be great if anyone here comes across it. To whom was it passed out to? Clergy only, Corps only? Is that the exact title of the item or a paraphrase? I think getting a hold of that would help a lot with future communications.
I agreed with someone else yesterday, that an honest unvarnished history of TWI should be produced by them, but that is going to be difficult. Their lawyers may even forbid it for tort protection.
I am talking to a few non-leadership intellectuals in TWI about these things, and they agree a history with lots of love, but no whitewashing is needed.
I am thinking of something like the way Luke did Acts of the apostles was not a whitewash, but an honest, unvarnished history of the important issues.
We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it outside the ministry's official recognition, but with their discreet understanding and off the record approval and assistance. Then distribution would have to be privately handled.
I enjoyed the new PFAL-T class, and I am compiling my thoughts and notes on it, first for TWI people, and then for you folks if you are interested.I don’t want to clutter my mind with discussions here on PFAL-T, until I finish my compilation and then write HQ about it.I have some detailed good points, and some easy suggestions for improvement, like simple announcements for the class co-ordinators handbook.
Nutshell for now:I liked it. It can be a good primer for young people, which is their goal.
Mike it’s fine I can give you the time to collect thoughts and assemble them. If u want to post your letter to BOD it’s cool.
Make a new thread “My Experience Taking PFAL Today”. Either write it all up ahead of time and post it or if you want we will stay completely out of the thread. We can put comments on it in a different one.
I am not calling for your banning just let’s try and stay on topic and talk about things in an ordered fashion for the sake of the 2 people who care and read all this.
I am talking to a few non-leadership intellectuals in TWI about these things, and they agree a history with lots of love, but no whitewashing is needed
In other words:
More lovebombing plus more whitewashing equals more money, money, money
I am EXTREMELY interested in the "Just the way it was” item you mentioned, and is it a tape or a written document. I will ask around about it, and it would be great if anyone here comes across it. To whom was it passed out to? Clergy only, Corps only? Is that the exact title of the item or a paraphrase? I think getting a hold of that would help a lot with future communications.
I don’t know what it is. I heard about it in passing mention and the impression I got was that it was a handout at the Advanced Class in Gunnison.
The younger generation is always “spared the details” of negative things by the older generation. They restricted the Corps from reading Passing of a Patriarch in the Way T2 or T3 or whichever it is labeled chronologically.
I am ready to STOP responding on this thread, especially to every nit and nat against me personally. I think I have posted all the important things I wanted to on this topic. Please continue without me. Bye.
To be clear, it's not that you post or even what you post...it's your dishonest tactics you use to try and steer the conversation to you being right 100% of the time. You actually resort to your imagination and make up stuff to prove your point. Anywho...laters Mike.
Mike it’s fine I can give you the time to collect thoughts and assemble them. If u want to post your letter to BOD it’s cool.
Make a new thread “My Experience Taking PFAL Today”. Either write it all up ahead of time and post it or if you want we will stay completely out of the thread. We can put comments on it in a different one.
I am not calling for your banning just let’s try and stay on topic and talk about things in an ordered fashion for the sake of the 2 people who care and read all this.
Please remember that people can change AND that there is a whole new generation taking over TWI.
People can be genuine, but with the huge pileup of issues they have to deal with, I am satisfied with going slow, and working on the easy topics first.
I am thinking of something like the way Luke did Acts of the apostles was not a whitewash, but an honest, unvarnished history of the important issues.
We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it outside the ministry's official recognition, but with their discreet understanding and off the record approval and assistance. Then distribution would have to be privately handled.
Here are 3 quotes concerning the past. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it." and "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." It may be that the new leaders are aware of a least one of these quotes and say they do not wish to repeat twi's history.
However, I'd like to amend the middle quote to say, "Those who don't know history are destined to be duped." This is for all the new people who are getting involved in the "new" twi who have no knowledge of what happened in the old twi. God forbid they should ever be "swept up" by all the "promises" laid out on a green card or by the "love bombing" like so many people were during the 70's and 80's. This should never happen again and if the new twi isn't going to reveal it, then it's just another reason why GSC is so important.
"huge pileup of issues" - imo, "going slow and working on the easy topics first" is the last thing they should do. To prevent history from repeating itself, they need to move quickly to reveal past "sexual sins" first before they publicly declare what the word says about adultery and sex before marriage. They can use John Schoenheit's paper on adultery if they are still "unsure" about these matters. "Going slow" implies that they want to rake in as much money as soon as possible before any .
"important issues" - who decides what issues are important? Will what caused the traumas, suicides and "messed-up brains experienced by past "members" be at the top of their list of important issues? What would Luke from Acts have done today if he had to deal with what went on in twi? I hardly think he would continue to proudly show a picture of vp along with a glowing review of his life as the "founding father" on his website like twi does. https://www.theway.org/about-us/about-the-founder/
"We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it." Would that happen to include you Mike?
Why doesn't twi add a full and accurate teaching about cults on their website.This would be required viewing followed by an honest discussion involving the twig leader and all twig members, especially for new people before they take the pfal class.
If the newer version of twi,
a) truly is new and has nothing to hide,
b) wants to show it has learned from the past so as not to repeat it,
c) and believes cults are dangerous
then, it would be a caring and helpful thing to do, in my opinion. The key here would be the words "full, accurate and honest." Having said that, maybe they should let a qualified non-member who specializes in cults do the teaching and facilitate the discussion. .
if we’re still discussing seed of the serpent – just wanted to say I’ve been bugged for a long time about wierwille’s questionable connection of the unforgiveable sin with the seed of the serpent. To me, there’s many issues – for now, I’ll just mention two:
1.It is doubtful that the seed of the serpent – being born again of the wrong seed is actually a thing. Whether it is an actual spiritual seed (whatever that is) or some genetic mutation - there are no Scripture references to support it directly – there’s only allusions, like inJohn 8:44, Ye are of your father the devil.
Theologians as far back as Augustine have interpreted John 8:44 figuratively – that Jesus’ enemies were children of the devilby imitation. A similar figurative interpretation is held by many modern theologians like Albert Barnes, Matthew Poole, F.L. Godet, H.A. Ironside, William Kelly, R.C.H. Lenski, Arthur W. Pink, J.C. Ryle, R.V.G. Tasker, and W.E. Vine ( see also the free online resource Bible Hub commentaries of John 8:44 for some other helpful commentaries ).
2. Biblical specificity of how to commit the sinare somewhat vague:Matthew 12 NIV (biblehub.com), Mark 3 NIV (biblehub.com), Luke 12 NIV (biblehub.com). Usually when Scripture forbids an action there is little room for doubt on what the specific rules are- You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.You shall not bow down to them or worship them;Exodus 20: 4, 5
In the orange book PFAL, chapter 21, The Unforgiveable Sin, after explaining there are two seeds mentioned inGenesis 3:15,wierwille says on page 319:
…let us take a hypothetical John Doe. He is born of body and soul, a natural man. He has no spiritual seed in him. When this man of body and soul confesses with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believes that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10: 9, 10), he is born again with God’s seed (Christ) in him, John Doe is body, soul and spirit with the love of God and eternal life.
However, there is another possibility for John. Rather than confessing Jesus as Lord, he believes the Devil is the true god. Then John Doe, a man of body and soul, is born again of the seed of the serpent. He is born of seed, and seed cannot be removed. Because this seed cannot be removed, it is an unforgivable sin.
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
(Shameless plug: speaking of body, soul, and spirit, I started a thread back in October > Human nature and the Falland I’m always interested in the viewpoints of others – come on – it’ll be fun!!!!)
Some of the material I have looked at describe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as a defiant irreverence and there are numerous interpretations on what that means and if it can still be committed since the days when Jesus Christ walked the earth:
In my opinion the subject of the unforgiveable sin is debatable in many respects. I have a few Christian counseling books on the shelf and the one observation I’ve found in several is that if a Christian worries that they may have committed the unforgiveable sin that concern is probably a good indication that they haven’t.
~ ~ ~ ~
The framework of wierwille’s fundamentalism / spiritualism / Gnosticism supported the assumption that in certain situations there was aLITERAL CONNECTIONbetween the spiritual world to the physical world – “certain situations” would always be contingent upon wierwille’s signature intuition – in other words, if he felt it was convenient to support his idea.
This is evident in how he explained the new birth. I Peter 1:23 says “For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.” wierwille said this referred to a LITERALimperishable seed. However, to me it seems Peter’s image hearkens back to the parable of the sower in Mark 4 , Jesus said in verse 14 the seed is The Word. This parable is a metaphorrepresenting the various reactions to The Word of God. In this allegory The Word is like a potent vessel of nature – holding the entire intelligent blueprint for life.
Seeds can lie dormant for ages before the conditions are ripe for them to burst into life. The conditions are ripe in Mark 4:20 where the seed is sown on good soil, a person hears the word, accepts it, and produces a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown…The new birth of I Peter 1:23 is NOTbrought about by a LITERALseed – that is, the new birth is NOT produced in the same way as a physical birth. The Word of God lives and abides forever and the life it introduces believers to is eternal also. The seed is a symbol for the Word of God.
~ ~ ~ ~
For someone like wierwillewho boasted of the great accuracy and integrity of the Bible and his in-depth analysis of it as well as his supposedly great experience in discerning of spirits and in casting out devil spirits – he offered very little details on exactly how one would commit the unforgiveable sin and get born again of the wrong seed.
In my opinion this is one of the most questionable and treacherous doctrines of wierwille. The session on the unforgivable sin was already pulled from the PFAL class proper by the time I first took PFAL in 1974 - and was only available for viewing sometime later – after a new student “successfully” completed the PFAL class (i.e. it was observed the grad followed the instructions to speak in tongues) and has been reviewing all the class material and attending Twig Fellowships for a while...
We can only speculate why wierwille yanked it from the class proper – my guess is that it was a doctrine fraught with ambiguity and could cause psychological stress and have some unintended consequences...maybe he was aware of some folks having issues with thinking they might have committed the unforgivable sin... I remember reading on Grease SpotCafé someone shared of a PFAL grad they knew who was convinced they committed the unforgivable sin – so they committed suicide... ...how awful !!!! such tragedy and destruction wrought by wierwille's twisted doctrines!
And though the session on the unforgiveable sin and being born again of the wrong seed was not technically part of the foundational class on PFAL – it practically takes center stage in the Advanced Class on PFAL.
My wife and I took the Advanced Class in 1978. Men and women were divided up and put in smaller Twig-size groupsreflecting The Way Tree hierarchy organizational structure – so my wife was in a small Twig-size group of all women – and I was in a Twig of all men.
One day my wife got in an argument with the Twig coordinator of her group who insisted that in order to commit the unforgivable sin and be born again of the devil’s seed you had to kneel at a Satanic altar and do something along the lines of pledging your allegiance to Satan. My wife stood her ground and argued that wierwille never mentioned any such specific details . This is a perfect example of followers parroting wierwille and in some instances adding more confusion to an already dubious doctrineas it is passed down through the ranks of TWI.
The argument between my wife and the coordinator didn’t stop at that Twig-level. It went up the Way Tree – all the way to the top – wierwille. This disagreement happened to coincide with three 8th corps guys who had “gone rogue” (LCM’s words) on their research papers – apparently, they had ventured off TWI’s bedrock of theology which is PFAL and in effect challenged the very core of wierwille's thought process. The trickle-down-high-volume-reprimand that rained down on all of us later that evening was an attempt to kill two challenges with one group scolding – wierwille’s and LCM’s tirade can be summed up in four words- do not question leadership…a few more details about this are mentioned on another threadhereandhere…In retrospect – this was probably a huge red flag I should have paid attention to – The Way Tree is a culture of dogmatism.
~ ~ ~ ~
Comparing apples to oranges- I think there’s probably more scriptural basis to diagnose levels of demonic influence than there is to assert there’s such a thing as being born again of the seed of the serpent…I got into this on another thread in February of this year – my post was a comprehensive perspective endeavoring to integrate the biblical data with modern psychology – with some wiggle room– see my post >here
~ ~ ~ ~
here's a few other links for thought – I leave it up to your cognitive skills – FYI some of these are really out-there in my opinion:
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So_crates
Remember what I said about the length of the post directly correlated with the effort to con someone. And like you don't have an agenda? So shall we stop reading your post too? No
chockfull
Just out of curiosity Mike have you had a chance to read penworks book yet? You have a lot of speculation going on about a time period and people that are very well documented in her book. She was t
So_crates
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OldSkool
I'm not responsible for your actions.
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Mike
I am ready to STOP responding on this thread, especially to every nit and nat against me personally. I think I have posted all the important things I wanted to on this topic. Please continue without me.
Bye.
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chockfull
Sure but that leaves you an open forum to talk about yourself on every thread. Distracting the readers and making it about you.
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So_crates
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
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So_crates
Perhaps you should take your own advice:
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chockfull
As former Way Corps I also dealt with people returning to TWI. And listened to them b1tch about the leadership. And protected them from the next layers of overseers.
They are accommodating you to fulfill a goal. Part of that goal is to call people back to PFAL. And show increase in their reports.
oh they’re not like that. Sorry every evidence of the fruit of their decisions show them to be every bit as self preserving as their predecessors.
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T-Bone
Outstanding!
more revelations!
thank you!
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chockfull
Mike it’s fine I can give you the time to collect thoughts and assemble them. If u want to post your letter to BOD it’s cool.
Make a new thread “My Experience Taking PFAL Today”. Either write it all up ahead of time and post it or if you want we will stay completely out of the thread. We can put comments on it in a different one.
I am not calling for your banning just let’s try and stay on topic and talk about things in an ordered fashion for the sake of the 2 people who care and read all this.
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So_crates
In other words:
More lovebombing plus more whitewashing equals more money, money, money
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chockfull
I don’t know what it is. I heard about it in passing mention and the impression I got was that it was a handout at the Advanced Class in Gunnison.
The younger generation is always “spared the details” of negative things by the older generation. They restricted the Corps from reading Passing of a Patriarch in the Way T2 or T3 or whichever it is labeled chronologically.
Whitewash is as whitewash does.
Forrest Gump 1:1
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OldSkool
To be clear, it's not that you post or even what you post...it's your dishonest tactics you use to try and steer the conversation to you being right 100% of the time. You actually resort to your imagination and make up stuff to prove your point. Anywho...laters Mike.
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chockfull
Sure makes perfect sense. We have already defined the research / re-search tenet of Batdad Bible College.
No whitewash just history with luv.
Has potential as a new Corps class.
Batdad’s History of Da Way - just what you need to know, when you need to know it, from the only true loving perspective really available, the BOD.
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Mike
Ok. I will consider that. :)
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So_crates
I thought you were leaving to do other projects.
The truth is more like other posters were challenging your closed mind and you had to hit the eject button.
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T-Bone
Edited by T-Bonethe name is editor...double O editor with a license to kill typos
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T-Bone
wait ! where are you going?
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OldSkool
I could never have an eject button...pretty sure I would eject my wife or son at some point and regret it later...
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waysider
Nah, you'd probably regret it right away.
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OldSkool
Yah...you have a point...
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Charity
Here are 3 quotes concerning the past. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." "Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it." and "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." It may be that the new leaders are aware of a least one of these quotes and say they do not wish to repeat twi's history.
However, I'd like to amend the middle quote to say, "Those who don't know history are destined to be duped." This is for all the new people who are getting involved in the "new" twi who have no knowledge of what happened in the old twi. God forbid they should ever be "swept up" by all the "promises" laid out on a green card or by the "love bombing" like so many people were during the 70's and 80's. This should never happen again and if the new twi isn't going to reveal it, then it's just another reason why GSC is so important.
"huge pileup of issues" - imo, "going slow and working on the easy topics first" is the last thing they should do. To prevent history from repeating itself, they need to move quickly to reveal past "sexual sins" first before they publicly declare what the word says about adultery and sex before marriage. They can use John Schoenheit's paper on adultery if they are still "unsure" about these matters. "Going slow" implies that they want to rake in as much money as soon as possible before any
.
"important issues" - who decides what issues are important? Will what caused the traumas, suicides and "messed-up brains experienced by past "members" be at the top of their list of important issues? What would Luke from Acts have done today if he had to deal with what went on in twi? I hardly think he would continue to proudly show a picture of vp along with a glowing review of his life as the "founding father" on his website like twi does. https://www.theway.org/about-us/about-the-founder/
"We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it." Would that happen to include you Mike?
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Charity
Here's a posible idea:
Why doesn't twi add a full and accurate teaching about cults on their website. This would be required viewing followed by an honest discussion involving the twig leader and all twig members, especially for new people before they take the pfal class.
If the newer version of twi,a) truly is new and has nothing to hide,
b) wants to show it has learned from the past so as not to repeat it,
c) and believes cults are dangerous
then, it would be a caring and helpful thing to do, in my opinion. The key here would be the words "full, accurate and honest." Having said that, maybe they should let a qualified non-member who specializes in cults do the teaching and facilitate the discussion. .
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Twinky
@ Charity:
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T-Bone
Hey all,
if we’re still discussing seed of the serpent – just wanted to say I’ve been bugged for a long time about wierwille’s questionable connection of the unforgiveable sin with the seed of the serpent. To me, there’s many issues – for now, I’ll just mention two:
1. It is doubtful that the seed of the serpent – being born again of the wrong seed is actually a thing. Whether it is an actual spiritual seed (whatever that is) or some genetic mutation - there are no Scripture references to support it directly – there’s only allusions, like in John 8:44 , Ye are of your father the devil.
Theologians as far back as Augustine have interpreted John 8:44 figuratively – that Jesus’ enemies were children of the devil by imitation. A similar figurative interpretation is held by many modern theologians like Albert Barnes, Matthew Poole, F.L. Godet, H.A. Ironside, William Kelly, R.C.H. Lenski, Arthur W. Pink, J.C. Ryle, R.V.G. Tasker, and W.E. Vine ( see also the free online resource Bible Hub commentaries of John 8:44 for some other helpful commentaries ).
2. Biblical specificity of how to commit the sin are somewhat vague: Matthew 12 NIV (biblehub.com), Mark 3 NIV (biblehub.com), Luke 12 NIV (biblehub.com). Usually when Scripture forbids an action there is little room for doubt on what the specific rules are - You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; Exodus 20: 4, 5
In the orange book PFAL, chapter 21, The Unforgiveable Sin, after explaining there are two seeds mentioned in Genesis 3:15 ,wierwille says on page 319:
…let us take a hypothetical John Doe. He is born of body and soul, a natural man. He has no spiritual seed in him. When this man of body and soul confesses with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believes that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10: 9, 10), he is born again with God’s seed (Christ) in him, John Doe is body, soul and spirit with the love of God and eternal life.
However, there is another possibility for John. Rather than confessing Jesus as Lord, he believes the Devil is the true god. Then John Doe, a man of body and soul, is born again of the seed of the serpent. He is born of seed, and seed cannot be removed. Because this seed cannot be removed, it is an unforgivable sin.
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
(Shameless plug: speaking of body, soul, and spirit, I started a thread back in October > Human nature and the Fall and I’m always interested in the viewpoints of others – come on – it’ll be fun !!!!
)
Some of the material I have looked at describe blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as a defiant irreverence and there are numerous interpretations on what that means and if it can still be committed since the days when Jesus Christ walked the earth:
What is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? | GotQuestions.org
Blasphemy - Wikipedia
What is Blasphemy? Unforgivable Sin Against the Holy Spirit (biblestudytools.com)
What Is the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and the Unforgivable Sin? (christianity.com)
11 Bible verses about Blasphemy, Against The Holy Spirit (knowing-jesus.com)
What every Catholic should know: The Six Sins against the Holy Spirit - Catholic For Life
Can a Christian Blaspheme the Holy Spirit? | Desiring God
~ ~ ~ ~
In my opinion the subject of the unforgiveable sin is debatable in many respects. I have a few Christian counseling books on the shelf and the one observation I’ve found in several is that if a Christian worries that they may have committed the unforgiveable sin that concern is probably a good indication that they haven’t.
~ ~ ~ ~
The framework of wierwille’s fundamentalism / spiritualism / Gnosticism supported the assumption that in certain situations there was a LITERAL CONNECTION between the spiritual world to the physical world – “certain situations” would always be contingent upon wierwille’s signature intuition – in other words, if he felt it was convenient to support his idea.
This is evident in how he explained the new birth. I Peter 1:23 says “For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.” wierwille said this referred to a LITERAL imperishable seed. However, to me it seems Peter’s image hearkens back to the parable of the sower in Mark 4 , Jesus said in verse 14 the seed is The Word. This parable is a metaphor representing the various reactions to The Word of God. In this allegory The Word is like a potent vessel of nature – holding the entire intelligent blueprint for life.
Seeds can lie dormant for ages before the conditions are ripe for them to burst into life. The conditions are ripe in Mark 4:20 where the seed is sown on good soil, a person hears the word, accepts it, and produces a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown…The new birth of I Peter 1:23 is NOT brought about by a LITERAL seed – that is, the new birth is NOT produced in the same way as a physical birth. The Word of God lives and abides forever and the life it introduces believers to is eternal also. The seed is a symbol for the Word of God.
~ ~ ~ ~
For someone like wierwille who boasted of the great accuracy and integrity of the Bible and his in-depth analysis of it as well as his supposedly great experience in discerning of spirits and in casting out devil spirits – he offered very little details on exactly how one would commit the unforgiveable sin and get born again of the wrong seed.
In my opinion this is one of the most questionable and treacherous doctrines of wierwille. The session on the unforgivable sin was already pulled from the PFAL class proper by the time I first took PFAL in 1974 - and was only available for viewing sometime later – after a new student “successfully” completed the PFAL class (i.e. it was observed the grad followed the instructions to speak in tongues) and has been reviewing all the class material and attending Twig Fellowships for a while...
We can only speculate why wierwille yanked it from the class proper – my guess is that it was a doctrine fraught with ambiguity and could cause psychological stress and have some unintended consequences...maybe he was aware of some folks having issues with thinking they might have committed the unforgivable sin... I remember reading on Grease Spot Café someone shared of a PFAL grad they knew who was convinced they committed the unforgivable sin – so they committed suicide... ...how awful !!!! such tragedy and destruction wrought by wierwille's twisted doctrines!
And though the session on the unforgiveable sin and being born again of the wrong seed was not technically part of the foundational class on PFAL – it practically takes center stage in the Advanced Class on PFAL.
My wife and I took the Advanced Class in 1978. Men and women were divided up and put in smaller Twig-size groups reflecting The Way Tree hierarchy organizational structure – so my wife was in a small Twig-size group of all women – and I was in a Twig of all men.
One day my wife got in an argument with the Twig coordinator of her group who insisted that in order to commit the unforgivable sin and be born again of the devil’s seed you had to kneel at a Satanic altar and do something along the lines of pledging your allegiance to Satan. My wife stood her ground and argued that wierwille never mentioned any such specific details . This is a perfect example of followers parroting wierwille and in some instances adding more confusion to an already dubious doctrine as it is passed down through the ranks of TWI.
The argument between my wife and the coordinator didn’t stop at that Twig-level. It went up the Way Tree – all the way to the top – wierwille. This disagreement happened to coincide with three 8th corps guys who had “gone rogue” (LCM’s words) on their research papers – apparently, they had ventured off TWI’s bedrock of theology which is PFAL and in effect challenged the very core of wierwille's thought process. The trickle-down-high-volume-reprimand that rained down on all of us later that evening was an attempt to kill two challenges with one group scolding – wierwille’s and LCM’s tirade can be summed up in four words - do not question leadership…a few more details about this are mentioned on another thread here and here …In retrospect – this was probably a huge red flag I should have paid attention to – The Way Tree is a culture of dogmatism.
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Comparing apples to oranges
- I think there’s probably more scriptural basis to diagnose levels of demonic influence than there is to assert there’s such a thing as being born again of the seed of the serpent…I got into this on another thread in February of this year – my post was a comprehensive perspective endeavoring to integrate the biblical data with modern psychology – with some wiggle room 
– see my post > here
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here's a few other links for thought – I leave it up to your cognitive skills – FYI some of these are really out-there in my opinion:
What is the Serpent Seed doctrine? | GotQuestions.org
Serpent seed - Wikipedia
What Is Serpent DNA? QAnon Illuminati Theory Allegedly Influenced CA Dad To Kill Children | YourTango
The Seed of the Serpent: New Briefing – Dr. Chuck Missler – Koinonia House (khouse.org)
referent identification - Who is the serpent's seed in Genesis 3:15? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
Bible Q | Who is the seed of the serpent in Genesis 3:15?
The Seed of the Serpent Today - The Pharisees - The Serapeum
37. THE SERPENT SEED DOCTRINE (scripturetruthministries.com)
Edited by T-Boneupdate what's update
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chockfull
Nice write up T Bone.
One of the outstanding questions for the VPW idolators is
Was the teaching on seed of the serpent part of the KoolAid snowstorm, knowing the Word since it hasn’t been since the first century, or not?
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