Right now I am turning suspiciousness AWAY from them, after some 30+ years of high suspiciousness towards them. It is important to remember that a little more than one whole generation has passed since the POP.A new generation of people are involved, especially at the local levels.
I am lightening up on my suspicions, a few are still there, but not like a generation ago. I have reported this here for a couple of years here at GSC. It started 4 years ago when I noticed a difference in local leadership.
It really started longer ago with my dance hobby. I go to bars where good old music is played, often on Monday to Thursday nights. The trashy music is usually for weekends in order to appeal to the bulky the crowds, usually young people. But LOTS of good retired musicians just want a place to play loud, and I go there to dance to blues rock and Grateful Dead music. Allman Brothers and danceable Bob Dylan songs enter the mix often. These are Open Mic scenes for bands and musicians. It's a networking hub for them. There are a half dozen of these places here.
About 7 or 8 years ago, one of these great eclectic musicians said "HI Mike! Fancy meeting you here!"He was unrecognizable behind his long whiskers everywhere.
His voice was unmistakably that of an old TWI friend I hadn’t seen in 25 years, and who was still in TWI after all these years. I ran the A.V. for his first class in 1982. We had reluctantly parted ways around 1996-7 when Craig was in his saddest mode. I could immediately sense the melted ice in my friend. We started comparing notes intensely. It was a great reunion!
Since then I have watched him do his music and network with a hundred other musicians over the past 7 years or so. Around 4 years ago his occasional reports of twig activity got more and more interesting. I sensed a change in attitudes of leadership thru him. I wanted to see this firsthand so I went to ONE large local fellowship very far away from my home. There, I met the local twig leader, but his twig was still a little too far for me. But I sensed directly the change in attitudes from the previous TWI people I had encountered by phone or in person over the previous decades. I made plans to lightly attend the local fellowship, but then the Pandemic happened.
Now I've been to several meetings and had good times. Because I have the exact opposite attitude most of you folks have toward the baby and bathwater issue, they are not opposed to talking turkey at times, when no new people around.
I can tell these people love the Word and study it, so that is the main topic we all want to discuss. With some of them it can get very deep and beneficial. I remember that I am not perfect, and we all have our own flaws, and our own background twists in perspective. It is a happy scene, but not religiously frequent. I sometimes go dancing instead of an available fellowship.
I remember how Priscilla and Aquila were polite with Apollos, and I try to follow that example. It is called agape. In return I got ZERO PRESSURE from them to take the class.This was not incidental.They specifically would say they did not want to pressure me. It was my idea to take it, fully. There has been zero pressure for tithing. Not one word.
I’ve brought tithing up once or twice, but jokingly, and briefly. My plan is to not tithe, but at the same time I will not discourage anyone else from doing that. I have much better places for my giving than that, at the moment.
Besides, I have been a free publicity agent for their main product ever since I left circa 1988, in my PFAL promotion. That can count as a tithe. Plus, I am willing to donate my future services to them, as an outside consultant.
I enjoyed the new PFAL-T class, and I am compiling my thoughts and notes on it, first for TWI people, and then for you folks if you are interested.I don’t want to clutter my mind with discussions here on PFAL-T, until I finish my compilation and then write HQ about it.I have some detailed good points, and some easy suggestions for improvement, like simple announcements for the class co-ordinators handbook.
Nutshell for now:I liked it. It can be a good primer for young people, which is their goal.
Hilarious. Don't want to clutter your mind by discussing the new class here. Why not? You are happy to clutter all our minds with your trolling.
They are doing a great job love bombing you to bring you back into the fold. They may be doing this with others because they are desperate for numbers and money.
What they are not doing is pouring new wine into a new wineskin.
For someone like so-and-so here who usually talks so authoritatively about what God knows, intends, and what God can and cannot do– I like the chicken-$hit way he dodges around explaining his or wierwille’s concept of God that's some next level bull-$hit...impressed the hell out of me anyway
Yes the issue is the multi pages of off topic content obscure threads for those interested. And it is interjected everywhere not constrained to one topic.
It is accomplishing what TWI wants which is people not to read this site or track on topics and interact in a godly fashion.
Quite obviously since our opinions affect TWIs bottom line and expose how they use people to accomplish their aims, they consider all of us to be devil possessed here. As Mike said he thinks we are so used to fellowshipping with the adversary that there is a seed of serpent like wedge in our brains so that we can be possessed at any time.
I would conclude that there really is no honest interaction with Mike here and that he should either voluntarily go off with his wineskin folks and kick around PFAL for the next 30 yrs, or we should seek a ban for all the trolling.
He will not contribute even any honest details or answer logical questions about the new class. He buries detailed questions and doesn't answer but cherry picks things. And it's starting to stack up.
On your second point, I will be pressing them for a full airing on the history of the John Scheonheit paper on adultery. I have to go slower with them on this. With some of them I have already started that dialog.
There are a couple of them who know that if they don't write up a better than a white-washed history of TWI and VPW, then GreaseSpot will be the final writer of this history.
If they were honest about fixing the past and setting a new direction you would not need to press them at all on this. They would already be publishing that paper, correcting the teachings and practices.
Why does a group need to bring this to a leaders attention if they are genuine?
I heard they passed out something to Ac grads called “Just the way it was”. It's a huge secret but great whitewashing and excuses even in the title.
Grease spot is the writer of history on this because it is the only place you can avoid the lies and whitewash. They are not posting up just the way it was to challenge any of the accuracy of threads here.
William Branham introduced a mixture of the occult and Christian mysticism into his study and teaching of scripture.
VP and the PFAL class taught a variation of the occult with the seed of the serpent partial logic and the convoluted original sin. The rote manual soul less handling of gifts with manufactured practices to “excel” is erroneous doctrine.
Mix scripture and a little plagiarism and a little mysticism and a little of the occult, and what do you get?
Yes the issue is the multi pages of off topic content obscure threads for those interested. And it is interjected everywhere not constrained to one topic.
It is accomplishing what TWI wants which is people not to read this site or track on topics and interact in a godly fashion.
Quite obviously since our opinions affect TWIs bottom line and expose how they use people to accomplish their aims, they consider all of us to be devil possessed here. As Mike said he thinks we are so used to fellowshipping with the adversary that there is a seed of serpent like wedge in our brains so that we can be possessed at any time.
I would conclude that there really is no honest interaction with Mike here and that he should either voluntarily go off with his wineskin folks and kick around PFAL for the next 30 yrs, or we should seek a ban for all the trolling.
He will not contribute even any honest details or answer logical questions about the new class. He buries detailed questions and doesn't answer but cherry picks things. And it's starting to stack up.
Thoughts?
What do you guys think?
Mike will continue as long as we feed him the attention he so desires so he can acheive his goals. Im just as guilty of passing out troll food so I will do my part and stop. But, yes, I actually really would like to discuss the topic of this thread, that mike wants us not makes me want to get back on track that much more. Obviously, we are moving into a touchy area given the similarities of wierwille and Branham and obviously wierwille gleaned from him as well but never, afaik, mentioned him by name.
What I do about this is none of your business.
You should be ashamed for thinking you can see into my life.
You have no idea what you are talking about and exhibiting all the ugliness that TWI had at one time. You are preserving it by embodying it yourself. You are becoming what you look at most intensely: the mind-control goons. You are damaging yourself with your pompous "I have repented but YOU, Mike, are a lowly sinner!" When are you going to get it? I am not under your control. I am responsible to God, not to you, oh little one.
I would love to see you wilt in a big university setting with the Lefties who would shame you for being a willing beneficiary of all the evil from Columbus on down to the Conquistadors. This happens every Columbus day now on lots of campuses. Old white men are being shamed, sometimes physically threatened, if they do not hate and condemn Columbus. It is a little bit similar to your puny attempts to shame me for not hating and condemning VPW.
The difference, though is they are WAY BETTER at it than you! I have seen this with my own eyes. I have been on the receiving end of Columbus shaming. You are an amateur at it, even with your Corps disciplining flashbacks with me. So back off, buddy! I do not answer to pukes like you.
thank you for this incredible gift! I am wordless...more or less
I’ve brought tithing up once or twice, but jokingly, and briefly. My plan is to not tithe, but at the same time I will not discourage anyone else from doing that. I have much better places for my giving than that, at the moment.
Besides, I have been a free publicity agent for their main product ever since I left circa 1988, in my PFAL promotion. That can count as a tithe. Plus, I am willing to donate my future services to them, as an outside consultant.
I enjoyed the new PFAL-T class, and I am compiling my thoughts and notes on it, first for TWI people, and then for you folks if you are interested.I don’t want to clutter my mind with discussions here on PFAL-T, until I finish my compilation and then write HQ about it.I have some detailed good points, and some easy suggestions for improvement, like simple announcements for the class co-ordinators handbook.
Nutshell for now:I liked it. It can be a good primer for young people, which is their goal.
another incredible gift ! thank you ! once more I am more or less wordless to some indescribable speechless degree
When you're young, you have an unspoken feeling of importance, like being a bright light in a dark place, like the universe somehow revolves around you. And that's OK. A healthy dose of self confidence and self worth can push you through some of the toughest challenges life can throw at you. But then you get old. It happens fast, real fast. And you start to understand that you're more like a grain of sand on life's shoreline, surrounded by trillions and trillions of bits of similarly unremarkable grains of sand. And you know what? That's OK, too. A healthy dose of humility can help you put life in perspective and salvage some of the precious little time you have left.
Now, to bring it back to topic, here's the point I'm getting at. If the devil is the God of this world and has access to every beach, every shoreline, every desert, What does he need me for? To help spread evil in this world? I'm just one little grain of sand. No, there's no shortage of evil in this world. My contribution toward that goal would be insignificant, hardly worth any effort the devil would need to expend. We're all just little grains of sand on this giant beach. Together, though, we can soak up the warmth of the sun and make this beach just a tiny better place to visit for those who will someday travel their own paths. To think that some sinister, outside force would want to possess our souls is nothing more than an exercise in self importance.
Live life. Enjoy it. Be good to others. But just as importantly...be good to yourself.
Yes, that is right.
Because I was not in the Corps I am a lot less sure of some of these Corps matters, but from what I have seen on the field, my reaction is to call the Corps by the name "Wierwille's Folly." My mind is not totally set on this, but it need not be. Whenever, I meet someone who is Corps, I try to not hold it against them, and try to think the best of what they do with that training. I have met MANY very fine Way Corps members.
And do YOU realize that VPW was often on record about his dissatisfaction with the Corps, and how he'd easily terminate it long before the Wow program?
And here on this site it is the old guard Corps graduates who actually studied all the ministry material in depth and can call you out when you misquote it or get it wrong.
So yes I can certainly see where it would be easier to lump them all together with a label and ignore them.
It wasn’t Wierwille’s Folly when I went through it, the man was dead. It was his #1 protege and best student in charge then. The one that he placed a mantle upon publicly and transferred leadership to. Da forehead 4 days. We did the same things they always did except for when there were a few more people around who had a degree from an accredited institute they taught classes.
I think you misquoted VP there too. What he said was if it came down to it he would sacrifice the Corps program before he would sacrifice the WOW program. He was not dissatisfied with the Corps it was his baby. He dismissed the zero Corps. Was dissatisfied there.
This is not some great in depth spiritual truth. WOW ambassadors are a free proselytizing force. They produce immediate returns. The Corps is a 4 year program that filters people out. Only a small percentage of them over time produce returns and that is mostly holding things together not running thousands of classes for the millions of people in the public wanting to take the class. That doesn’t exist.
I would conclude that there really is no honest interaction with Mike here and that he should either voluntarily go off with his wineskin folks and kick around PFAL for the next 30 yrs, or we should seek a ban for all the trolling.
Honest interactions with me can be rare here because so many of the active posters want me to either conform to their anti-idol religion/cult and stop bringing up my opinions and the facts i have gathered, or be banned.
You preach the value of open minds, but then close them when you encounter stiff competition. THAT is the reason you cannot contain yourself and MUST post a storm against me.
Your activity around me REEKS of Way Corps nasty attitudes and actions. You jumped out of one vpw-idol cult (Corps) only to work hard on an anti-idol cult forming here. I am a fly in your cult ointment here.
I voluntarily leave most threads alone. I have tried to back off this one for 2 days now, but people like YOU keep trying to get another round of boxing going. You are SO reeking of Way Corps tactics!!! Take a look in the mirror sometime, you, who cannot be corrupted.
So, now you want to seek a ban on me! Just another cult tactic of eliminating any doctrinal opposition.
You should ban yourself from responding to me but your emotions prevent it. There is NOTHING you can say to me that you and/or many others have already said. Get some new material to criticize me with, or get a life!
You should take some wise advice from Gamaliel towards me.
Even Rush Limbaugh had something pertinent to say on this. He used to say, somewhat jokingly (but with a strong serious streak) that if he were King, he'd ban all the Liberal professors from publicly funded Universities, EXCEPT for one or two in each location. He made that exception, because he thought they should be kept in sight, so that their musings could be monitored and effectively challenged.
So let me ask the troll the one question that could allow him to contribute to this thread.
Mike, do they teach the unforgivable sin in PLAFT ?
What do they teach about Adam and Eve and original sin?
There are 2 opportunities they would have had to correct glaring issues and false doctrines.
I mentioned in my very long to Socrates several hours ago to So_crates that I will answer all those questions after I write up a report that is readable by HQ people.
Hilarious. Don't want to clutter your mind by discussing the new class here. Why not? You are happy to clutter all our minds with your trolling.
They are doing a great job love bombing you to bring you back into the fold. They may be doing this with others because they are desperate for numbers and money.
Read my reasons why in my long post to So_crates, above.
I am not stupid and they are not love bombing me. They listen to the issues I bring up, and sometimes disagree with me. Because we have many common goals and beliefs, we both respect each others' rights to differ.
Example: I would toss out phrases like "the ministry meltdown" referring to 1986, and I could see a few flinch and object to my impressions of what happened then. I respect this objection and ask them why they feel that way. I tell them why I feel it was a meltdown.
Then we continue our respectful conversation (not debate) and we both discover that my old "marble cake model" of the ministry applies here. Some areas did indeed melt down and some did not. Some were isolated from the mess, and continued to minister to new people. Many were not so isolated (like my area) and things went haywire. Now when I sparingly use the phrase "ministry meltdown" they understand and don't flinch or object. They understand my position, and I understand theirs.
Right now I am turning suspiciousness AWAY from them, after some 30+ years of high suspiciousness towards them. It is important to remember that a little more than one whole generation has passed since the POP.A new generation of people are involved, especially at the local levels.
I am lightening up on my suspicions, a few are still there, but not like a generation ago. I have reported this here for a couple of years here at GSC. It started 4 years ago when I noticed a difference in local leadership.
It really started longer ago with my dance hobby. I go to bars where good old music is played, often on Monday to Thursday nights. The trashy music is usually for weekends in order to appeal to the bulky the crowds, usually young people. But LOTS of good retired musicians just want a place to play loud, and I go there to dance to blues rock and Grateful Dead music. Allman Brothers and danceable Bob Dylan songs enter the mix often. These are Open Mic scenes for bands and musicians. It's a networking hub for them. There are a half dozen of these places here.
About 7 or 8 years ago, one of these great eclectic musicians said "HI Mike! Fancy meeting you here!"He was unrecognizable behind his long whiskers everywhere.
His voice was unmistakably that of an old TWI friend I hadn’t seen in 25 years, and who was still in TWI after all these years. I ran the A.V. for his first class in 1982. We had reluctantly parted ways around 1996-7 when Craig was in his saddest mode. I could immediately sense the melted ice in my friend. We started comparing notes intensely. It was a great reunion!
Since then I have watched him do his music and network with a hundred other musicians over the past 7 years or so. Around 4 years ago his occasional reports of twig activity got more and more interesting. I sensed a change in attitudes of leadership thru him. I wanted to see this firsthand so I went to ONE large local fellowship very far away from my home. There, I met the local twig leader, but his twig was still a little too far for me. But I sensed directly the change in attitudes from the previous TWI people I had encountered by phone or in person over the previous decades. I made plans to lightly attend the local fellowship, but then the Pandemic happened.
Now I've been to several meetings and had good times. Because I have the exact opposite attitude most of you folks have toward the baby and bathwater issue, they are not opposed to talking turkey at times, when no new people around.
I can tell these people love the Word and study it, so that is the main topic we all want to discuss. With some of them it can get very deep and beneficial. I remember that I am not perfect, and we all have our own flaws, and our own background twists in perspective. It is a happy scene, but not religiously frequent. I sometimes go dancing instead of an available fellowship.
I remember how Priscilla and Aquila were polite with Apollos, and I try to follow that example. It is called agape. In return I got ZERO PRESSURE from them to take the class.This was not incidental.They specifically would say they did not want to pressure me. It was my idea to take it, fully. There has been zero pressure for tithing. Not one word.
I’ve brought tithing up once or twice, but jokingly, and briefly. My plan is to not tithe, but at the same time I will not discourage anyone else from doing that. I have much better places for my giving than that, at the moment.
Besides, I have been a free publicity agent for their main product ever since I left circa 1988, in my PFAL promotion. That can count as a tithe. Plus, I am willing to donate my future services to them, as an outside consultant.
I enjoyed the new PFAL-T class, and I am compiling my thoughts and notes on it, first for TWI people, and then for you folks if you are interested.I don’t want to clutter my mind with discussions here on PFAL-T, until I finish my compilation and then write HQ about it.I have some detailed good points, and some easy suggestions for improvement, like simple announcements for the class co-ordinators handbook.
Nutshell for now:I liked it. It can be a good primer for young people, which is their goal.
Remember what I said about the length of the post being directly correlated with someone's efforts to con you? Here is a case in point. Rather than a direct response, Mike takes us around the block and starts pointing out trees. This word salad is designed to cover up and confuse.
I've done that, he's said. Sure you have. That's why I ask you to be specific about the good Saint Vic has done and all I get is your Ralph Kramden impression, hominy, hominy, hominy...
Read my reasons why in my long post to So_crates, above.
I am not stupid and they are not love bombing me. They listen to the issues I bring up, and sometimes disagree with me. Because we have many common goals and beliefs, we both respect each others' rights to differ.
Example: I would toss out phrases like "the ministry meltdown" referring to 1986, and I could see a few flinch and object to my impressions of what happened then. I respect this objection and ask them why they feel that way. I tell them why I feel it was a meltdown.
Then we continue our respectful conversation (not debate) and we both discover that my old "marble cake model" of the ministry applies here. Some areas did indeed melt down and some did not. Some were isolated from the mess, and continued to minister to new people. Many were not so isolated (like my area) and things went haywire. Now when I sparingly use the phrase "ministry meltdown" they understand and don't flinch or object. They understand my position, and I understand theirs.
You mean they agree to you joining them in their whitewashing efforts. That's what your marble cake boils down to.
What I do about this is none of your business.
You should be ashamed for thinking you can see into my life.
Just as what we do about it is none of your business. If we choose to go on a public forum and broadcast Saint Vic's evils, that's our business, not yours. So stay in your own lane.
If they were honest about fixing the past and setting a new direction you would not need to press them at all on this. They would already be publishing that paper, correcting the teachings and practices.
Why does a group need to bring this to a leaders attention if they are genuine?
I heard they passed out something to Ac grads called “Just the way it was”. It's a huge secret but great whitewashing and excuses even in the title.
Grease spot is the writer of history on this because it is the only place you can avoid the lies and whitewash. They are not posting up just the way it was to challenge any of the accuracy of threads here.
Please remember that people can change AND that there is a whole new generation taking over TWI.
People can be genuine, but with the huge pileup of issues they have to deal with, I am satisfied with going slow, and working on the easy topics first.
I am EXTREMELY interested in the "Just the way it was” item you mentioned, and is it a tape or a written document. I will ask around about it, and it would be great if anyone here comes across it. To whom was it passed out to? Clergy only, Corps only? Is that the exact title of the item or a paraphrase? I think getting a hold of that would help a lot with future communications.
I agreed with someone else yesterday, that an honest unvarnished history of TWI should be produced by them, but that is going to be difficult. Their lawyers may even forbid it for tort protection.
I am talking to a few non-leadership intellectuals in TWI about these things, and they agree a history with lots of love, but no whitewashing is needed.
I am thinking of something like the way Luke did Acts of the apostles was not a whitewash, but an honest, unvarnished history of the important issues.
We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it outside the ministry's official recognition, but with their discreet understanding and off the record approval and assistance. Then distribution would have to be privately handled.
Please remember that people can change AND that there is a whole new generation taking over TWI.
People can be genuine, but with the huge pileup of issues they have to deal with, I am satisfied with going slow, and working on the easy topics first.
I am EXTREMELY interested in the "Just the way it was” item you mentioned, and is it a tape or a written document. I will ask around about it, and it would be great if anyone here comes across it. To whom was it passed out to? Clergy only, Corps only? Is that the exact title of the item or a paraphrase? I think getting a hold of that would help a lot with future communications.
I agreed with someone else yesterday, that an honest unvarnished history of TWI should be produced by them, but that is going to be difficult. Their lawyers may even forbid it for tort protection.
I am talking to a few non-leadership intellectuals in TWI about these things, and they agree a history with lots of love, but no whitewashing is needed.
I am thinking of something like the way Luke did Acts of the apostles was not a whitewash, but an honest, unvarnished history of the important issues.
We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it outside the ministry's official recognition, but with their discreet understanding and off the record approval and assistance. Then distribution would have to be privately handled.
You do believe the bible don't you.
Seems I recall something about a leopard and spots.
Also, how much have you changed in 20 years? Still derailing threads, still running interference for Saint Vic, still trying to get people to pay for a class they already took...
I actually really would like to discuss the topic of this thread, that mike wants us not makes me want to get back on track that much more.
You read me wrong. I am trying to wrap up my posts on this thread to leave for other projects. Stop responding to every nit and nat you don't like from me, and you will help me leave this thread.
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So_crates
Remember what I said about the length of the post directly correlated with the effort to con someone. And like you don't have an agenda? So shall we stop reading your post too? No
chockfull
Just out of curiosity Mike have you had a chance to read penworks book yet? You have a lot of speculation going on about a time period and people that are very well documented in her book. She was t
So_crates
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chockfull
Hilarious. Don't want to clutter your mind by discussing the new class here. Why not? You are happy to clutter all our minds with your trolling.
They are doing a great job love bombing you to bring you back into the fold. They may be doing this with others because they are desperate for numbers and money.
What they are not doing is pouring new wine into a new wineskin.
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chockfull
Yes the issue is the multi pages of off topic content obscure threads for those interested. And it is interjected everywhere not constrained to one topic.
It is accomplishing what TWI wants which is people not to read this site or track on topics and interact in a godly fashion.
Quite obviously since our opinions affect TWIs bottom line and expose how they use people to accomplish their aims, they consider all of us to be devil possessed here. As Mike said he thinks we are so used to fellowshipping with the adversary that there is a seed of serpent like wedge in our brains so that we can be possessed at any time.
I would conclude that there really is no honest interaction with Mike here and that he should either voluntarily go off with his wineskin folks and kick around PFAL for the next 30 yrs, or we should seek a ban for all the trolling.
He will not contribute even any honest details or answer logical questions about the new class. He buries detailed questions and doesn't answer but cherry picks things. And it's starting to stack up.
Thoughts?
What do you guys think?
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chockfull
If they were honest about fixing the past and setting a new direction you would not need to press them at all on this. They would already be publishing that paper, correcting the teachings and practices.
Why does a group need to bring this to a leaders attention if they are genuine?
I heard they passed out something to Ac grads called “Just the way it was”. It's a huge secret but great whitewashing and excuses even in the title.
Grease spot is the writer of history on this because it is the only place you can avoid the lies and whitewash. They are not posting up just the way it was to challenge any of the accuracy of threads here.
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chockfull
William Branham introduced a mixture of the occult and Christian mysticism into his study and teaching of scripture.
VP and the PFAL class taught a variation of the occult with the seed of the serpent partial logic and the convoluted original sin. The rote manual soul less handling of gifts with manufactured practices to “excel” is erroneous doctrine.
Mix scripture and a little plagiarism and a little mysticism and a little of the occult, and what do you get?
PFAL in any day and time
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OldSkool
Mike will continue as long as we feed him the attention he so desires so he can acheive his goals. Im just as guilty of passing out troll food so I will do my part and stop. But, yes, I actually really would like to discuss the topic of this thread, that mike wants us not makes me want to get back on track that much more. Obviously, we are moving into a touchy area given the similarities of wierwille and Branham and obviously wierwille gleaned from him as well but never, afaik, mentioned him by name.
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T-Bone
thank you for this incredible gift! I am wordless...more or less
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T-Bone
another incredible gift ! thank you ! once more I am more or less wordless to some indescribable speechless degree
Edited by T-BoneSupermassive edit
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waysider
When you're young, you have an unspoken feeling of importance, like being a bright light in a dark place, like the universe somehow revolves around you. And that's OK. A healthy dose of self confidence and self worth can push you through some of the toughest challenges life can throw at you. But then you get old. It happens fast, real fast. And you start to understand that you're more like a grain of sand on life's shoreline, surrounded by trillions and trillions of bits of similarly unremarkable grains of sand. And you know what? That's OK, too. A healthy dose of humility can help you put life in perspective and salvage some of the precious little time you have left.
Now, to bring it back to topic, here's the point I'm getting at. If the devil is the God of this world and has access to every beach, every shoreline, every desert, What does he need me for? To help spread evil in this world? I'm just one little grain of sand. No, there's no shortage of evil in this world. My contribution toward that goal would be insignificant, hardly worth any effort the devil would need to expend. We're all just little grains of sand on this giant beach. Together, though, we can soak up the warmth of the sun and make this beach just a tiny better place to visit for those who will someday travel their own paths. To think that some sinister, outside force would want to possess our souls is nothing more than an exercise in self importance.
Live life. Enjoy it. Be good to others. But just as importantly...be good to yourself.
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chockfull
And here on this site it is the old guard Corps graduates who actually studied all the ministry material in depth and can call you out when you misquote it or get it wrong.
So yes I can certainly see where it would be easier to lump them all together with a label and ignore them.
It wasn’t Wierwille’s Folly when I went through it, the man was dead. It was his #1 protege and best student in charge then. The one that he placed a mantle upon publicly and transferred leadership to. Da forehead 4 days. We did the same things they always did except for when there were a few more people around who had a degree from an accredited institute they taught classes.
I think you misquoted VP there too. What he said was if it came down to it he would sacrifice the Corps program before he would sacrifice the WOW program. He was not dissatisfied with the Corps it was his baby. He dismissed the zero Corps. Was dissatisfied there.
This is not some great in depth spiritual truth. WOW ambassadors are a free proselytizing force. They produce immediate returns. The Corps is a 4 year program that filters people out. Only a small percentage of them over time produce returns and that is mostly holding things together not running thousands of classes for the millions of people in the public wanting to take the class. That doesn’t exist.
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Mike
What I post here about my private life and actions is public. I have the right to not reveal anything about it, and keep it private.
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Mike
Me distracting ?????
There is not a single post from me here that forces you to read it. You have a PgDn key on your keyboard for that.
Just ignore my posts if you find them distracting. Take some advice from Rocky.
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OldSkool
Please do.
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OldSkool
I love it that Mike's teeth finally started showing....knew they were just under the surface...continues to prove his bullshonta trollshonta ways.
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Mike
Honest interactions with me can be rare here because so many of the active posters want me to either conform to their anti-idol religion/cult and stop bringing up my opinions and the facts i have gathered, or be banned.
You preach the value of open minds, but then close them when you encounter stiff competition. THAT is the reason you cannot contain yourself and MUST post a storm against me.
Your activity around me REEKS of Way Corps nasty attitudes and actions. You jumped out of one vpw-idol cult (Corps) only to work hard on an anti-idol cult forming here. I am a fly in your cult ointment here.
I voluntarily leave most threads alone. I have tried to back off this one for 2 days now, but people like YOU keep trying to get another round of boxing going. You are SO reeking of Way Corps tactics!!! Take a look in the mirror sometime, you, who cannot be corrupted.
So, now you want to seek a ban on me! Just another cult tactic of eliminating any doctrinal opposition.
You should ban yourself from responding to me but your emotions prevent it. There is NOTHING you can say to me that you and/or many others have already said. Get some new material to criticize me with, or get a life!
You should take some wise advice from Gamaliel towards me.
Even Rush Limbaugh had something pertinent to say on this. He used to say, somewhat jokingly (but with a strong serious streak) that if he were King, he'd ban all the Liberal professors from publicly funded Universities, EXCEPT for one or two in each location. He made that exception, because he thought they should be kept in sight, so that their musings could be monitored and effectively challenged.
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Mike
I mentioned in my very long to Socrates several hours ago to So_crates that I will answer all those questions after I write up a report that is readable by HQ people.
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Mike
Read my reasons why in my long post to So_crates, above.
I am not stupid and they are not love bombing me. They listen to the issues I bring up, and sometimes disagree with me. Because we have many common goals and beliefs, we both respect each others' rights to differ.
Example: I would toss out phrases like "the ministry meltdown" referring to 1986, and I could see a few flinch and object to my impressions of what happened then. I respect this objection and ask them why they feel that way. I tell them why I feel it was a meltdown.
Then we continue our respectful conversation (not debate) and we both discover that my old "marble cake model" of the ministry applies here. Some areas did indeed melt down and some did not. Some were isolated from the mess, and continued to minister to new people. Many were not so isolated (like my area) and things went haywire. Now when I sparingly use the phrase "ministry meltdown" they understand and don't flinch or object. They understand my position, and I understand theirs.
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So_crates
Remember what I said about the length of the post being directly correlated with someone's efforts to con you? Here is a case in point. Rather than a direct response, Mike takes us around the block and starts pointing out trees. This word salad is designed to cover up and confuse.
I've done that, he's said. Sure you have. That's why I ask you to be specific about the good Saint Vic has done and all I get is your Ralph Kramden impression, hominy, hominy, hominy...
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So_crates
You mean they agree to you joining them in their whitewashing efforts. That's what your marble cake boils down to.
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waysider
I've never sought a ban on anyone.
You could have just stopped there if your goal was to make us laugh.
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So_crates
Just as what we do about it is none of your business. If we choose to go on a public forum and broadcast Saint Vic's evils, that's our business, not yours. So stay in your own lane.
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Mike
Please remember that people can change AND that there is a whole new generation taking over TWI.
People can be genuine, but with the huge pileup of issues they have to deal with, I am satisfied with going slow, and working on the easy topics first.
I am EXTREMELY interested in the "Just the way it was” item you mentioned, and is it a tape or a written document. I will ask around about it, and it would be great if anyone here comes across it. To whom was it passed out to? Clergy only, Corps only? Is that the exact title of the item or a paraphrase? I think getting a hold of that would help a lot with future communications.
I agreed with someone else yesterday, that an honest unvarnished history of TWI should be produced by them, but that is going to be difficult. Their lawyers may even forbid it for tort protection.
I am talking to a few non-leadership intellectuals in TWI about these things, and they agree a history with lots of love, but no whitewashing is needed.
I am thinking of something like the way Luke did Acts of the apostles was not a whitewash, but an honest, unvarnished history of the important issues.
We are thinking that non-official, non-payrolled TWI "members" will have to do it outside the ministry's official recognition, but with their discreet understanding and off the record approval and assistance. Then distribution would have to be privately handled.
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So_crates
You do believe the bible don't you.
Seems I recall something about a leopard and spots.
Also, how much have you changed in 20 years? Still derailing threads, still running interference for Saint Vic, still trying to get people to pay for a class they already took...
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Mike
You read me wrong. I am trying to wrap up my posts on this thread to leave for other projects. Stop responding to every nit and nat you don't like from me, and you will help me leave this thread.
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Mike
I show my teeth AFTER you show yours. Look in a mirror sometime.
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