Always with the cop outs and deflections. I'm talking about MY questions. My dead serious, relevant questions that go to the heart of the matter.
It's very telling that you always avoid my questions and comments. I'll let anyone reading decide for themselves what it's telling of. My questions and comments must make you uncomfortable. Perhaps, they should.
There are lots of things I am uncomfortable about with the whole TWI thing. I try to deal with them one-by-one and the ones I can understand best are done first.
I have heard approximately all your cutting questions, and some of them I generated for myself over the years. I just want to preserve the good, so I am careful, and sometimes slow.
If you could calm down a little, maybe we could communicate better.
Yes, that is right.
Because I was not in the Corps I am a lot less sure of some of these Corps matters, but from what I have seen on the field, my reaction is to call the Corps by the name "Wierwille's Folly." My mind is not totally set on this, but it need not be. Whenever, I meet someone who is Corps, I try to not hold it against them, and try to think the best of what they do with that training. I have met MANY very fine Way Corps members.
And do YOU realize that VPW was often on record about his dissatisfaction with the Corps, and how he'd easily terminate it long before the Wow program?
So, if Saint Vic was dissatisfied with it, why didn't he change it? Once again, the responsibility for what it is lies on his shrugging shoulders.
Yes, you do hold their Corp service against them. Witness how you respond to T-Bone and OldSkool.
I finally caught up with the backlog that started piling up last night and all day today, except a few of Nathan's questions.
Unless, anyone has a burning comment that can't wait, you all can have your William Branham: Seed of the Serpent discussion resume. I sure hope I don't see anything I need to respond to for a little bit.
There are lots of things I am uncomfortable about with the whole TWI thing. I try to deal with them one-by-one and the ones I can understand best are done first.
I have heard approximately all your cutting questions, and some of them I generated for myself over the years. I just want to preserve the good, so I am careful, and sometimes slow.
If you could calm down a little, maybe we could communicate better.
I'm perfectly calm. Just say so. Just say you need to think about it. I would that you gave my dead serious questions some thought and answer them directly with well-composed, intelligent sentences, than to attack, deflect and cop out.
I do not know if "spirit upon" is available in this administration. I would like to know this, but I have never even heard anyone voice it at all.
And here I thought you said WE were the ones who weren't paying attention. This was covered in the Advanced Class and again in one of the other classes, possibly Dealing With The Adversary.
To answer your question, however, Wierwille said it was possible for God to talk to us that way today, but would only do so as a last resort if we were too far out of fellowship to receive revelation. He also said phenomena, as well, was available to people in the OT, people in the NT and, yes, unbelievers. (Page 9 of the syllabus)
For starters, though, it's important to recognize that the concept of administrations is merely a man-made construct.
I'm perfectly calm. Just say so. Just say you need to think about it. I would that you gave my dead serious questions some thought and answer them directly with well-composed, intelligent sentences, than to attack, deflect and cop out.
Ok, I will try.
Your question/comment on the 1942 promise being uttered by a devil spirit was something I very seriously considered all through the 1070s. But it was from the large accumulation of FRUIT in my life that I knew I was finally on the right track. Like David and Solomon, I still deeply consider the possibility that many devils were trying to get to him and some may have been successful at times. I consider the possibility that Paul got a nostalgic spirit when he went to Jerusalem against God's orders.
And here I thought you said WE were the ones who weren't paying attention. This was covered in the Advanced Class and again in one of the other classes, possibly Dealing With The Adversary.
To answer your question, however, Wierwille said it was possible for God to talk to us that way today, but would only do so as a last resort if we were too far out of fellowship to receive revelation. He also said phenomena, as well, was available to people in the OT, people in the NT and, yes, unbelievers. (Page 9 of the syllabus)
For starters, though, it's important to recognize that the concept of administrations is merely a man-made construct.
Seriously, Waysider, your recall of all this never ceases to amaze me.
I'm perfectly calm. Just say so. Just say you need to think about it. I would that you gave my dead serious questions some thought and answer them directly with well-composed, intelligent sentences, than to attack, deflect and cop out.
Don't feel bad, Nate. Notice:
He's copping out about Saint Vic's responsibility for the Corps being what it is.
He's copping out about God being able to speak to Adam after Adam lost spirit.
I am not projecting when I wincingly see your anti-idol cult-religion grow to the point that you discolor all that is the Word of God when it comes off the pen of VPW.
Well jeepers , you must have special cyber-peepers…you sure know how to act like a creeper...well, at least you're good at something
1 hour ago, Mike said:
It is not VPW that I am concerned about; it's YOU and the damage you are doing to yourself and others.
Ahh so what you’re REALLY saying is you’re concerned about the damage to your little idol wierwille. Relax.
It doesn’t REALLY make a difference to your faith.
I mean, you forked over $100 to take the new PFAL Today…so don’t worry your little icon of toxic waste appears to be doing just fine…bless all those little old idolatrous hearts.
Your question/comment on the 1942 promise being uttered by a devil spirit was something I very seriously considered all through the 1070s. But it was from the large accumulation of FRUIT in my life that I knew I was finally on the right track. Like David and Solomon, I still deeply consider the possibility that many devils were trying to get to him and some may have been successful at times. I consider the possibility that Paul got a nostalgic spirit when he went to Jerusalem against God's orders.
Now, on to the first and most important question: What is your and victor's concept of God?
And here I thought you said WE were the ones who weren't paying attention. This was covered in the Advanced Class and again in one of the other classes, possibly Dealing With The Adversary.
. Not all the ACs were the same, but I may have not been paying attention also. It happens. My great awakening to pay BIG attention didn't happen until 1998, and I was out of the ministry for 10 years. My Dealing with the adversary was in the early 70s, and attention was not the best then.
To answer your question, however, Wierwille said it was possible for God to talk to us that way today, but would only do so as a last resort if we were too far out of fellowship to receive revelation. He also said phenomena, as well, was available to people in the OT, people in the NT and, yes, unbelievers. (Page 9 of the syllabus)
You may have that a little off... possibly.
I know for sure that in Living Victoriously in Peace he says that if we born again believers are out of fellowship, then it would be phenomena if God got a revelation through.
My question is about spirit being UPON some natural man in the Grace Administration. I know in the OT both phenomena and spirit upon were available
4 minutes ago, waysider said:
For starters, though, it's important to recognize that the concept of administrations is merely a man-made construct.
It seems solid for some Administrations, and implied for others.
The bigger question is are "administrations" a rightly-divided, useful man-made construct? Remember that chapters and verses are man-made, but useful, and usually rightly divided.
I know for sure that in Living Victoriously in Peace he says that if we born again believers are out of fellowship, then it would be phenomena if God got a revelation through.
Except for Saint Vic of course, who was more out of fellowship then in, and yet, according to you...
That is way too big a question, and that is why I answered it the way I did.
I'd have to almost teach you the class to fully answer that.
Here is how I answer that for “new” people I am witnessing to:
I quote Jesus and say that "God is spirit," and then that we hardly know anything about spirit. But do we need to?
Do we need to know WHAT God is like the way we know what a human being is? A human has a body and a brain. Is THAT what you want to know about God? If you got the definitive answer, what would you do with it? Is it idle curiosity?
When you get to know a human, after getting past the body and brain, what do you focus on? More of their body and brain, or do you want to know what they SAY and DO?A person’s words and actions will tell you a lot more about them than their relatively trivial body and brain. The important stuff we know about people are NOT about their body and brain, but about their HEART, which can be seen in their actions and words.
So, lets jump past the impossible task of getting to know God’s “body and brain” (whatever THAT means) and just focus on His words and actions. THEN we can get some useful knowledge.
When Christ returns we can ask for more of what God IS, and if it is useful, He will tell us. Until then lets focus on what He already has told us and get the benefits He wants us to have now.
All you can really "know" about his fellowship is what some devilish rumor mill teaches you for years and decades. I don't trust such teaching at all.
Just as all you can "know" of him is what a group that has the ulterior motive of relieving you of as much of your cash as they can tells you. I choose not to believe them or you.
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So_crates
Remember what I said about the length of the post directly correlated with the effort to con someone. And like you don't have an agenda? So shall we stop reading your post too? No
chockfull
Just out of curiosity Mike have you had a chance to read penworks book yet? You have a lot of speculation going on about a time period and people that are very well documented in her book. She was t
So_crates
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Mike
There are lots of things I am uncomfortable about with the whole TWI thing. I try to deal with them one-by-one and the ones I can understand best are done first.
I have heard approximately all your cutting questions, and some of them I generated for myself over the years. I just want to preserve the good, so I am careful, and sometimes slow.
If you could calm down a little, maybe we could communicate better.
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So_crates
So, if Saint Vic was dissatisfied with it, why didn't he change it? Once again, the responsibility for what it is lies on his shrugging shoulders.
Yes, you do hold their Corp service against them. Witness how you respond to T-Bone and OldSkool.
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Mike
I finally caught up with the backlog that started piling up last night and all day today, except a few of Nathan's questions.
Unless, anyone has a burning comment that can't wait, you all can have your William Branham: Seed of the Serpent discussion resume. I sure hope I don't see anything I need to respond to for a little bit.
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Nathan_Jr
I'm perfectly calm. Just say so. Just say you need to think about it. I would that you gave my dead serious questions some thought and answer them directly with well-composed, intelligent sentences, than to attack, deflect and cop out.
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waysider
And here I thought you said WE were the ones who weren't paying attention. This was covered in the Advanced Class and again in one of the other classes, possibly Dealing With The Adversary.
To answer your question, however, Wierwille said it was possible for God to talk to us that way today, but would only do so as a last resort if we were too far out of fellowship to receive revelation. He also said phenomena, as well, was available to people in the OT, people in the NT and, yes, unbelievers. (Page 9 of the syllabus)
For starters, though, it's important to recognize that the concept of administrations is merely a man-made construct.
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Mike
Ok, I will try.
Your question/comment on the 1942 promise being uttered by a devil spirit was something I very seriously considered all through the 1070s. But it was from the large accumulation of FRUIT in my life that I knew I was finally on the right track. Like David and Solomon, I still deeply consider the possibility that many devils were trying to get to him and some may have been successful at times. I consider the possibility that Paul got a nostalgic spirit when he went to Jerusalem against God's orders.
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Nathan_Jr
Seriously, Waysider, your recall of all this never ceases to amaze me.
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So_crates
Don't feel bad, Nate. Notice:
He's copping out about Saint Vic's responsibility for the Corps being what it is.
He's copping out about God being able to speak to Adam after Adam lost spirit.
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Nathan_Jr
Oh, I don't feel bad at all.
And he's copping out about God speaking audibly in the carnal universe to a carnal, natural, five senses old man who had lost all faith and believing.
God can only community with what he his, spirit, except when he's speaking audibly so that your five senses ears can hear him.
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T-Bone
Well jeepers , you must have special cyber-peepers…you sure know how to act like a creeper...well, at least you're good at something
Ahh so what you’re REALLY saying is you’re concerned about the damage to your little idol wierwille. Relax.
It doesn’t REALLY make a difference to your faith.
I mean, you forked over $100 to take the new PFAL Today…so don’t worry your little icon of toxic waste appears to be doing just fine…bless all those little old idolatrous hearts.
Edited by T-Bonerevisio marvelisimo
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Nathan_Jr
Now, on to the first and most important question: What is your and victor's concept of God?
Focus. Avoid distractions. Compose thoughtful sentences.
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Mike
It seems solid for some Administrations, and implied for others.
The bigger question is are "administrations" a rightly-divided, useful man-made construct? Remember that chapters and verses are man-made, but useful, and usually rightly divided.
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So_crates
And just how is T-Bone damaging himself and others? Or don't you believe the truth will set you free?
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So_crates
Except for Saint Vic of course, who was more out of fellowship then in, and yet, according to you...
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Nathan_Jr
Open question for anyone willing to answer. (I don't think Mike is able to handle it.)
What is victor's concept of God? What does victor mean when he says God? What/who is God, according to victor?
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So_crates
If I was to go by the witness of Saint Vic's life, I'd say God to Saint Vic was money and sex.
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Mike
That is way too big a question, and that is why I answered it the way I did.
I'd have to almost teach you the class to fully answer that.
Here is how I answer that for “new” people I am witnessing to:
I quote Jesus and say that "God is spirit," and then that we hardly know anything about spirit. But do we need to?
Do we need to know WHAT God is like the way we know what a human being is? A human has a body and a brain. Is THAT what you want to know about God? If you got the definitive answer, what would you do with it? Is it idle curiosity?
When you get to know a human, after getting past the body and brain, what do you focus on? More of their body and brain, or do you want to know what they SAY and DO? A person’s words and actions will tell you a lot more about them than their relatively trivial body and brain. The important stuff we know about people are NOT about their body and brain, but about their HEART, which can be seen in their actions and words.
So, lets jump past the impossible task of getting to know God’s “body and brain” (whatever THAT means) and just focus on His words and actions. THEN we can get some useful knowledge.
When Christ returns we can ask for more of what God IS, and if it is useful, He will tell us. Until then lets focus on what He already has told us and get the benefits He wants us to have now.
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Mike
All you can really "know" about his fellowship is what some devilish rumor mill teaches you for years and decades. I don't trust such teaching at all.
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So_crates
Like Saint Vic's words and actions...
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waysider
Yeah, possibly...but I don't think so. It's on page 9 and was covered more extensively in the accompanying live teaching.
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Mike
Put yourself in my shoes and see if you can answer that first question all by yourself.
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So_crates
Just as all you can "know" of him is what a group that has the ulterior motive of relieving you of as much of your cash as they can tells you. I choose not to believe them or you.
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Mike
I did not see many of his actions. Did you? I heard a lot of his good words, and a few controlled temper tantrums while on staff.
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So_crates
Go through the archives here, they're full of actions witnessed by others.
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