Yeah – I think you’re understanding it the way I do... ...of course we both could be wrong
But seriously I still have a long way to go in just processing what Packer said…Part of the issue goes way back to when I was in TWI and doubling down on wierwille’s keys to walking by the spirit. I wanted everything spelled out for me and I thought those “keys” would help. What I really wanted was something definitive – if not an audible voice – something that I knew was not me just imagining it. Passages like the following would fascinate me:
New International Version “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”Luke 22:42
Perhaps when Jesus Christ walked the earth, he was the only one who could accurately distinguish God’s will from his own human will – like here we read he is torn between a very human trait – the will to survive, and God’s will calling for self-sacrifice…one of the most captivating things to think about is something sublimely expressed in theGreek text of John 3:16- “the only begotten” in Greek is μονογενῆ(monogene - you can see we get one from mono and kind from gene) – it basically means one of a kind – unique – the dual nature of Jesus Christ – human and divine – Jesus Christ the hybrid.
Imagine if we could make a clear distinction when it came to something crucial – “okay, I know what I want to do – but I also know what God wants me to do…oy vey…decisions…decisions…decisions” I bet we’ve all experienced that dilemma at times…in TWI I used to blow that off – also what didn’t help was the typical TWI-regimented thought process. For example, after I first took PFAL I had that typical new grad enthusiasm and would witness to anyone about the class – and damn the torpedoes if I got into unchartered waters while talking to someone. At first, I used to brag to my Twig coordinator about spending an hour or two telling someone about how God is love and forgives. I could tell he was a little annoyed and in a roundabout way suggested I shouldn’t waste a lot of time with people who show little interest in taking the class. Another no-no he would get on me about was spending a lot of time teaching PFAL stuff to a person I signed up for the class – I guess he was afraid I’d screw things up.
I’ve come along way since I left TWI – trying to follow through on what comes naturally / supernaturally ? < that's me thinking I can dance
One company I worked for would have several managers make sure they talked with an applicant during their paid try out week, just to get feedback and see if our company was a good fit for them. I could tell this one lady – almost in tears – was distraught over the high demands in time and energy the assistant manager’s job would entail and the stress that might put on her marriage and family. I knew she was highly qualified and would probably be great at the job – but something else kept coming to mind. I remembered myself in TWI as a workaholic. I put the ministry first before my wife and kids – and my marriage and kids suffered because of that.
I didn’t want to tell her what to do and I wasn’t going to tell her about my other strange life in a cult. What I did do was encourage her to re-evaluate her priorities and if hubby and family still outweigh this job then it’s not a good fit for you…She decided to not take the job. Was it God? Was it just me being empathetic? Was it God reminding me to be considerate? I don’t know…It just feels a lot better doing things this way. No big whoop.
I can’t remember vp’s keys to walking by the spirit but that’s probably a good thing. When it comes to your twig coordinator, it seems that the need/desire to criticize and reprove others (i.e., lord over you) would put many people in a damned-if-I-do and damned-if-I-don’t situation. You are wrong either way.
Whether a thought is coming from God or our own mind, that can definitely be tricky. On the one hand, if a thought comes from scripture such as “do not lie" or "be kind to one another,” we know the thought is God’s will whether He placed it in our minds or if we recall it on our own. Like you say, no big whoop.
It's different when an idea comes to mind that is outside of what we find in Scripture. Deciding then if it came from God or from us personally can often come down to guesswork which is the opposite of having a definitive answer. In the OT, people were being told by God to do incredibly insane or frightening things, and what amazes me is that the Word doesn't even say if they had doubts about what they heard, they just went straight ahead and did it. Here I am questioning whether the idea to call a friend who I had a falling out with is from God or not. What's up with that ?
I have to go, but I'll be back later to discus this some more.
I can’t remember vp’s keys to walking by the spirit but that’s probably a good thing. When it comes to your twig coordinator, it seems that the need/desire to criticize and reprove others (i.e., lord over you) would put many people in a damned-if-I-do and damned-if-I-don’t situation. You are wrong either way.
Whether a thought is coming from God or our own mind, that can definitely be tricky. On the one hand, if a thought comes from scripture such as “do not lie" or "be kind to one another,” we know the thought is God’s will whether He placed it in our minds or if we recall it on our own. Like you say, no big whoop.
It's different when an idea comes to mind that is outside of what we find in Scripture. Deciding then if it came from God or from us personally can often come down to guesswork which is the opposite of having a definitive answer. In the OT, people were being told by God to do incredibly insane or frightening things, and what amazes me is that the Word doesn't even say if they had doubts about what they heard, they just went straight ahead and did it. Here I am questioning whether the idea to call a friend who I had a falling out with is from God or not. What's up with that ?
I have to go, but I'll be back later to discus this some more.
Check out Acts 9:10-15 (the Lord is Jesus Christ - not God - Jesus Christ is the head of the body and here he is talking to Ananias - not the great Apostle Ananias - Just lil ol' Ananias. See how he interacts with his Church, the members of his body?)
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--- Jesus Christ is sending him on assignment to heal the guy who has been murdering Christians. I would say thats a pretty outside the box request that would have no scriptural basis for Ananias. So he asks Jesus Christ if he really knows what he's talking about (....and Jesus condemns him for being a dumbass...no---Jesus Christ is not Wierwille...mmm...catchy title for a book j/k...) and the Lord explains to Ananias what is going on, he gives him the comfort and exhortation he needs to go heal Saul. It's an amazing record. You can see this man's awesome faith by his obedient works, and we have Paul's works to this very day. Like I said earlier...God/Jesus Christ are prefectly capable to get your attention and make sure you know what you need to know. Can you see the relational nature though? Ananias and Jesus Christ are literally communicating. Yes - Ananias is having a vision but he answered the vision by talking to the Lord and the Lord answered in turn. Rest in faith...theres nothing to worry about. If nothing else have unshakeable trust in God's ability provide what you need. Still your mind on that truth. God is able. God knows we arent always able so he makes us able...it just requires our trust in him....that's faith.
This is all the faith you need....just a mustard seed will do.
I can’t remember vp’s keys to walking by the spirit but that’s probably a good thing. When it comes to your twig coordinator, it seems that the need/desire to criticize and reprove others (i.e., lord over you) would put many people in a damned-if-I-do and damned-if-I-don’t situation. You are wrong either way.
Whether a thought is coming from God or our own mind, that can definitely be tricky. On the one hand, if a thought comes from scripture such as “do not lie" or "be kind to one another,” we know the thought is God’s will whether He placed it in our minds or if we recall it on our own. Like you say, no big whoop.
It's different when an idea comes to mind that is outside of what we find in Scripture. Deciding then if it came from God or from us personally can often come down to guesswork which is the opposite of having a definitive answer. In the OT, people were being told by God to do incredibly insane or frightening things, and what amazes me is that the Word doesn't even say if they had doubts about what they heard, they just went straight ahead and did it. Here I am questioning whether the idea to call a friend who I had a falling out with is from God or not. What's up with that ?
I have to go, but I'll be back later to discus this some more.
How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason.
The opposite of that is an agitated loud voice. So many mental illnesses and disorders manifest themselves in agitation. Whether it is spectrum related items, depression, PTSD, ADHD , OCD or anything else in the mental health field, calming one’s self and getting to a non agitated state where you can think clearly is paramount to hearing anything from God. In agitation you hear your own thought buzzing around like a bumblebee. The new psychological manual the DSM V talks about things related to a spectrum not a disorder. So it is managing things on a scale.
Meditation, reading scripture, praying, self care all help to calm my mind and get it into a non agitated state where I can more easily distinguish the still small voice of God amongst the noise of the world.
In the Way being on a never ending hamster wheel to run a class witness to this guy solve this problem that never happened so they just wanted unqualified unquestioned compliance.
Self care.
There is a unique and new vocabulary word for Waybrains. No it doesn’t mean work yourself into a frenzy while SIT for the BOD and your lift list.
How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason.
The opposite of that is an agitated loud voice. So many mental illnesses and disorders manifest themselves in agitation. Whether it is spectrum related items, depression, PTSD, ADHD , OCD or anything else in the mental health field, calming one’s self and getting to a non agitated state where you can think clearly is paramount to hearing anything from God. In agitation you hear your own thought buzzing around like a bumblebee. The new psychological manual the DSM V talks about things related to a spectrum not a disorder. So it is managing things on a scale.
Meditation, reading scripture, praying, self care all help to calm my mind and get it into a non agitated state where I can more easily distinguish the still small voice of God amongst the noise of the world.
In the Way being on a never ending hamster wheel to run a class witness to this guy solve this problem that never happened so they just wanted unqualified unquestioned compliance.
Self care.
There is a unique and new vocabulary word for Waybrains. No it doesn’t mean work yourself into a frenzy while SIT for the BOD and your lift list.
Really salient points. As someone who underwent counselling for 16 weeks I can speak about the validity of understanding the psychological state an abusive cult can leave behind on an ex-leader. Not everyone has these types of problems post twi but some do... I certainly did and there's no shame in seeking help, even though it took me 10 years after TWI to admit I had serious issues post twi. Charity...don't read into what I'm saying...it's not directed at you or anyone really...Just sharing my life.
Really salient points. As someone who underwent counselling for 16 weeks I can speak about the validity of understanding the psychological state an abusive cult can leave behind on an ex-leader. Not everyone has these types of problems post twi but some do... I certainly did and there's no shame in seeking help, even though it took me 10 years after TWI to admit I had serious issues post twi. Charity...don't read into what I'm saying...it's not directed at you or anyone really...Just sharing my life.
There is a stigma attached to any mental health issues. It is one that needs to be overcome. There is no shame in any of these variances in a spectrum behavior or the need to seek help for mental things in life.
I have migrated to looking at it like my annual physical. Check up the body. Check up the mind.
For very specific things I seek out targeted counseling. This usually runs in a 8 week cycle mostly because of insurance. I also did a therapy cycle leaving TWI.
Over time I have learned about myself (not a diagnosis from MD) that I have a showing on the autism spectrum a little but not extreme. I have been depressed but am not clinically. I am on ADHD spectrum as well but no diagnosis or meds. That’s mostly it. So the spectrum showings for me are lower not extreme. I control them by becoming aware of my trigger points to avoid agitation and self care.
Maybe that is also God telling me to use a little common sense and not to be too huge of a mystic. Or me figuring that out or whatever.
It's different when an idea comes to mind that is outside of what we find in Scripture. Deciding then if it came from God or from us personally can often come down to guesswork which is the opposite of having a definitive answer. In the OT, people were being told by God to do incredibly insane or frightening things, and what amazes me is that the Word doesn't even say if they had doubts about what they heard, they just went straight ahead and did it. Here I am questioning whether the idea to call a friend who I had a falling out with is from God or not. What's up with that ?
You might enjoy thinking and looking outside of Scripture – you’re free to develop your own curriculum. The last few years I’ve pursued the philosophy of religion rather than just theology... I’m speaking as a layman – so this is just my 2 cents - theologians are usually bound by the tenets of their particular faith, and that puts limits on what they can argue, what they look into and what conclusions they can reach. They will accept certain concepts and principles on the basis of faith alone – but me, I guess being part technician and part renegade - I like to think outside the theological box and explore the heck out of something as much as I can with what little I know of theology and standard philosophical/analytic methods.
Something related to this topic that I got into thinking about a while back was 3 concepts: inspiration, illumination, and revelation. I pursued it from a few different angles – look for a biblical definition, look for a scholarly definition, look for a common person’s understanding. Find illustrations of each in the Bible and/or in your own life. This is just an example of making up one’s own study program.
~ ~ ~ ~
If I were you, I’d call your old friend – especially if it ended unpleasantly…
I was the one who soured true friendships when I got in TWI – because of where I drew the line - if they weren’t interested in “The Word”, then I was no longer interested in them.
Maybe due to a lot of pride, shame or what - I don’t know – I never made an effort to make amends for being an aloof Bible fanatic.
then a couple of years ago one of my old friends contacted me!
We reminisced a bunch. He still keeps in touch with most of our old circle of friends. He got me caught up on himself and others. I decided to do the same – starting off with apologizing for being snobbish after joining TWI – moved around for them, got tired of being exploited and left – played catch up career-wise, yada yada, yada I’ve got a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, own our home. When we wrapped up our conversation, I told him to say hello to the old gang and that I’m done with my religious cult phase - sorry I was such an a$$-hole and I still think about everyone once in a while.
I'm not assuming your falling out is similar...but just going on the fact that you've thought about contacting them - seems like a good idea - whether it's from God or your own heart - it doesn't matter. The only thing I assume is that you have good intentions - unless you're planning to get one last insult in
You might enjoy thinking and looking outside of Scripture – you’re free to develop your own curriculum. The last few years I’ve pursued the philosophy of religion rather than just theology... I’m speaking as a layman – so this is just my 2 cents - theologians are usually bound by the tenets of their particular faith, and that puts limits on what they can argue, what they look into and what conclusions they can reach. They will accept certain concepts and principles on the basis of faith alone – but me, I guess being part technician and part renegade - I like to think outside the theological box and explore the heck out of something as much as I can with what little I know of theology and standard philosophical/analytic methods.
Something related to this topic that I got into thinking about a while back was 3 concepts: inspiration, illumination, and revelation. I pursued it from a few different angles – look for a biblical definition, look for a scholarly definition, look for a common person’s understanding. Find illustrations of each in the Bible and/or in your own life. This is just an example of making up one’s own study program.
~ ~ ~ ~
If I were you, I’d call your old friend – especially if it ended unpleasantly…
I was the one who soured true friendships when I got in TWI – because of where I drew the line - if they weren’t interested in “The Word”, then I was no longer interested in them.
Maybe due to a lot of pride, shame or what - I don’t know – I never made an effort to make amends for being an aloof Bible fanatic.
then a couple of years ago one of my old friends contacted me!
We reminisced a bunch. He still keeps in touch with most of our old circle of friends. He got me caught up on himself and others. I decided to do the same – starting off with apologizing for being snobbish after joining TWI – moved around for them, got tired of being exploited and left – played catch up career-wise, yada yada, yada I’ve got a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, own our home. When we wrapped up our conversation, I told him to say hello to the old gang and that I’m done with my religious cult phase - sorry I was such an a$$-hole and I still think about everyone once in a while.
I'm not assuming your falling out is similar...but just going on the fact that you've thought about contacting them - seems like a good idea - whether it's from God or your own heart - it doesn't matter. The only thing I assume is that you have good intentions - unless you're planning to get one last insult in
Thanks for the chuckle at the end. Reading about your outside-the-box life compared to what you had inside the box (twi), is like night and day. It's the cult's "give me all your resources" dogma that made them so much money during their heyday.
Excuse me for getting off topic, but I have one observation and one question.
Observation: I'm realizing just today how many more people read this site other than the Grease Spotters I've come to know (some with good intentions - others with not so good).
Question: With all the horrible things that have happened in the corps over the years, I'm wondering how a few people who were close to my heart and went into the corps are doing. Is there a way I can ask on GSC if anyone knows what's happened to them? It would be inappropriate to ask on publicly-viewed threads like these.
Excuse me for getting off topic, but I have one observation and one question.
Observation: I'm realizing just today how many more people read this site other than the Grease Spotters I've come to know (some with good intentions - others with not so good).
Question: With all the horrible things that have happened in the corps over the years, I'm wondering how a few people who were close to my heart and went into the corps are doing. Is there a way I can ask on GSC if anyone knows what's happened to them? It would be inappropriate to ask on publicly-viewed threads like these.
Check out Acts 9:10-15 (the Lord is Jesus Christ - not God - Jesus Christ is the head of the body and here he is talking to Ananias - not the great Apostle Ananias - Just lil ol' Ananias. See how he interacts with his Church, the members of his body?)
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--- Jesus Christ is sending him on assignment to heal the guy who has been murdering Christians. I would say thats a pretty outside the box request that would have no scriptural basis for Ananias. So he asks Jesus Christ if he really knows what he's talking about (....and Jesus condemns him for being a dumbass...no---Jesus Christ is not Wierwille...mmm...catchy title for a book j/k...) and the Lord explains to Ananias what is going on, he gives him the comfort and exhortation he needs to go heal Saul. It's an amazing record. You can see this man's awesome faith by his obedient works, and we have Paul's works to this very day. Like I said earlier...God/Jesus Christ are prefectly capable to get your attention and make sure you know what you need to know. Can you see the relational nature though? Ananias and Jesus Christ are literally communicating. Yes - Ananias is having a vision but he answered the vision by talking to the Lord and the Lord answered in turn. Rest in faith...theres nothing to worry about. If nothing else have unshakeable trust in God's ability provide what you need. Still your mind on that truth. God is able. God knows we arent always able so he makes us able...it just requires our trust in him....that's faith.
This is all the faith you need....just a mustard seed will do.
Reading your last paragraph brought tears to my eyes and warmth to my heart. It so fits in with how God and Jesus Christ work in us. Thank you (I don't drink but I love chocolate so here's to you and I having a chocolate shake together.
Reading your last paragraph brought tears to my eyes and warmth to my heart. It so fits in with how God and Jesus Christ work in us. Thank you (I don't drink but I love chocolate so here's to you and I having a chocolate shake together.
Cool! Im really thankful, bit emotional too....very happy though.
How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason.
The opposite of that is an agitated loud voice. So many mental illnesses and disorders manifest themselves in agitation. Whether it is spectrum related items, depression, PTSD, ADHD , OCD or anything else in the mental health field, calming one’s self and getting to a non agitated state where you can think clearly is paramount to hearing anything from God. In agitation you hear your own thought buzzing around like a bumblebee. The new psychological manual the DSM V talks about things related to a spectrum not a disorder. So it is managing things on a scale.
Meditation, reading scripture, praying, self care all help to calm my mind and get it into a non agitated state where I can more easily distinguish the still small voice of God amongst the noise of the world.
In the Way being on a never ending hamster wheel to run a class witness to this guy solve this problem that never happened so they just wanted unqualified unquestioned compliance.
Self care.
There is a unique and new vocabulary word for Waybrains. No it doesn’t mean work yourself into a frenzy while SIT for the BOD and your lift list.
"How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason."
Inspiring point you shared. When I recently read 1 Samuel, it was like an action film where God's leaders such as David and Johnathon were making all these life-or-death decisions immediately after hearing from God. Now I can see how OT people who heard God tell them to do some "wild and crazy" thing (like how Joshua was to break down the walls of Jericho) must have first experienced some kind of still small voice from God. They probably also talked with God about their doubts like Ananias did with Jesus as OldSkool's wrote about in his post.
As a teacher, it was the regular tidal bore in my brain caused by the overwhelming high expectations I placed on myself that triggered episodes of acute anxiety followed by depression. I really needed to hear that still small voice of God at those times.
Love God, love your fellow human beings. And yourself. Do nice things for people. Be kind. Remember with a thankful heart what God has done for you. Simples!
As a teacher, it was the regular tidal bore in my brain caused by the overwhelming high expectations I placed on myself that triggered episodes of acute anxiety followed by depression. I really needed to hear that still small voice of God at those times.
Teaching in the modern school system is crazy. Way too much going on in schools. Probably most teachers feel anxiety and depression for more than one reason. Pay, mass shooters, pandemic, gender related items, lack of budget and staffing, classroom management, mental issues in class and it goes on. Plus the observations by leaders. I don’t know if that environment is 100 % you but if so give yourself a break and thank you for your service to our community!
Love God, love your fellow human beings. And yourself. Do nice things for people. Be kind. Remember with a thankful heart what God has done for you. Simples!
Simple sounds good - an unburdened way of life - but this time around having a personal spiritual relationship with God and Christ while doing it. I do feel close to them when I'm reading the Bible, but I have to be careful not to quickly detour off into some in-depth word study. I think it's a habit left over from twi days.
Teaching in the modern school system is crazy. Way too much going on in schools. Probably most teachers feel anxiety and depression for more than one reason. Pay, mass shooters, pandemic, gender related items, lack of budget and staffing, classroom management, mental issues in class and it goes on. Plus the observations by leaders. I don’t know if that environment is 100 % you but if so give yourself a break and thank you for your service to our community!
Thanks, I loved my job and the age group I was teaching (6-8 year olds).
I have to be careful not to quickly detour off into some in-depth word study. I think it's a habit left over from twi days.
Very easy to do! And yes, a bad habit ingrained by TWI. Write your question or interesting word down ("Any questions will be answered after session 12") but remember, you can always go back and have a go at answering your own question, or considering why that word was used in that passage, to what effect? Or was it just - a word?
You may find it helpful to read a completely different version of the Bible, with fewer trigger words, perhaps. I went straight from AV/KJV to reading The Message (I read something different now). The change shocks you out of TWI-brain and makes you pay attention to the passage you're reading.
Love God, love your fellow human beings. And yourself. Do nice things for people. Be kind. Remember with a thankful heart what God has done for you. Simples!
On my walk today, I was talking to Christ about what he wants me to do as a member of his body. After a few ideas went through my mind, I felt I knew what his answer was. It was to simply begin to love my fellow human beings.
I have always been shy and preferred to be as invisible around people as possible. I often tell certain people that I would be happy living as a hermit. Other than my children, I have had little to no contact with my brothers and their families. I have had no desire to make or be with friends.
So this is how I believe Christ wants to work with me. Just to begin acknowledging people when I'm out and about, to smile, and at times even talk with them. I know I can do this by being in fellowship with Christ and I want to do this because he's put it on my heart.
On my walk today, I was talking to Christ about what he wants me to do as a member of his body. After a few ideas went through my mind, I felt I knew what his answer was. It was to simply begin to love my fellow human beings.
I have always been shy and preferred to be as invisible around people as possible. I often tell certain people that I would be happy living as a hermit. Other than my children, I have had little to no contact with my brothers and their families. I have had no desire to make or be with friends.
So this is how I believe Christ wants to work with me. Just to begin acknowledging people when I'm out and about, to smile, and at times even talk with them. I know I can do this by being in fellowship with Christ and I want to do this because he's put it on my heart.
Cool! For me it was the same type of question...what jelled up in my heart was to take care of and love those in my family, and also people I interface with throughout the day. So, I am doing just that. I have some really cool conversations with folks just by being respectful and light hearted. Ditto on being as invisible as possible. Im dang near a recluse anymore, serious homebody.
As for witnessing...there is no such thing to me. I talk scripture with a lot of people, and it's not always quotes from the KJV. I feel no pressure to undershepherd anyone, because my job is to bring them to Christ. Obviously, at times there are needs that come up where I pray for people or get specific and personal. But the cool thing is Im taking them to Christ and not TWI. No pressure, just service to our Lord. No name tag, none of that junk. It's not needed.
Cool! For me it was the same type of question...what jelled up in my heart was to take care of and love those in my family, and also people I interface with throughout the day. So, I am doing just that. I have some really cool conversations with folks just by being respectful and light hearted. Ditto on being as invisible as possible. Im dang near a recluse anymore, serious homebody.
As for witnessing...there is no such thing to me. I talk scripture with a lot of people, and it's not always quotes from the KJV. I feel no pressure to undershepherd anyone, because my job is to bring them to Christ. Obviously, at times there are needs that come up where I pray for people or get specific and personal. But the cool thing is Im taking them to Christ and not TWI. No pressure, just service to our Lord. No name tag, none of that junk. It's not needed.
OldSkool, you're a great champion for newbies like me on GSC. My first couple of thoughts were heavier ones like witnessing and going to a church. I feel Christ wants me to begin with the ordinary, typical person so I can learn not to be a respecter of persons and to just be myself around people. I'm sure he'll lead me into more as we go along. It'll be interesting to do so without all the way baggage you mentioned above.
Do have the 4 seasons where you live? Are there places you like to go for a walk?
OldSkool, you're a great champion for newbies like me on GSC. My first couple of thoughts were heavier ones like witnessing and going to a church. I feel Christ wants me to begin with the ordinary, typical person so I can learn not to be a respecter of persons and to just be myself around people. I'm sure he'll lead me into more as we go along. It'll be interesting to do so without all the way baggage you mentioned above.
Do have the 4 seasons where you live? Are there places you like to go for a walk?
4 seasons - yes - live in Cincinnati. Dont really get out and walk much anymore...kinda lame I know...lol...
Ordinary and typical is where life happens. The way international adds the word "spiritual" as a modifier and makes their own subculture to support the modified concepts. Its the word of life it just fits everyday life. Consider the Lords prayer in this case:
Quote
Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, As it is in heaven.
We bring God's will to earth as we abide in the Word of Life. It all happens right here in front of us...
4 seasons - yes - live in Cincinnati. Dont really get out and walk much anymore...kinda lame I know...lol...
Ordinary and typical is where life happens. The way international adds the word "spiritual" as a modifier and makes their own subculture to support the modified concepts. Its the word of life it just fits everyday life. Consider the Lords prayer in this case:
We bring God's will to earth as we abide in the Word of Life. It all happens right here in front of us...
"Ordinary and typical is where life happens." I it!
What did Jesus do? Walked about, interacted with the people around him. Noticed folk (or they noticed him). Smiled and said Salaam (or hello), perhaps, to them. Observed what they were doing. Got involved, but not in an oppressive way, just interested.
Early on in my Way life, I remember chatting to an E-Corpsman or perhaps he could have been WC but a Brit, a nice chap, can't remember his name now. We were up in Gartmore, sleeping on camp beds in the gym - so early on in that purchase. And I remember "Chappie's" words: "If you want to help people, you've got to really love them." (Whoever he was, I hope he has escaped TWI and has his brain still intact.)
That love and care will come out in our actions. Each person you talk to, smile at, is special. Remember too: Jesus died for that person. How special is that?
As City Pastors in the city in which I live, our role includes going out on the streets and interacting with whoever we find. The first part of our patrol is often having a chat with people begging in the streets. Yes, we look at them. We talk to them. We see them as human beings, and don't let our eyes slide over them like a heap of rubbish in the corner. Sometimes, we offer a hot drink and a cereal bar, or warm hats and other clothing. But the main thing with this group of people is: we notice them.
If you see a beggar in the street, stop and have a chat. You're perfectly safe; they won't attack you. If they're willing to talk, you might be surprised at their life story and what has made them become street-homeless (there might be a bit of "embroidery" in their story, but maybe not too much). You don't have to give them money, but they might appreciate a sandwich, a coffee or a chocolate bar.
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Twinky
I sing with a church music group. This year, I've asked if a group of us can go into a nearby care home (where I have an old friend) and sing carols for a little while. So that's what I'm doing on 2
OldSkool
I agree that working scripture is a good thing to do, hands down. However, TWI placed study on a pedestal that doesn't fit. That we have a bible is cool, never been easier to study and we should do so
Twinky
These days, I'm a s/emp gardener. I just love being in gardens and helping plants "be their best." I learn so much about God, and about living, from tending plants. Plant something in the rig
Charity
I can’t remember vp’s keys to walking by the spirit but that’s probably a good thing. When it comes to your twig coordinator, it seems that the need/desire to criticize and reprove others (i.e., lord over you) would put many people in a damned-if-I-do and damned-if-I-don’t situation. You are wrong either way.
Whether a thought is coming from God or our own mind, that can definitely be tricky. On the one hand, if a thought comes from scripture such as “do not lie" or "be kind to one another,” we know the thought is God’s will whether He placed it in our minds or if we recall it on our own. Like you say, no big whoop.
It's different when an idea comes to mind that is outside of what we find in Scripture. Deciding then if it came from God or from us personally can often come down to guesswork which is the opposite of having a definitive answer. In the OT, people were being told by God to do incredibly insane or frightening things, and what amazes me is that the Word doesn't even say if they had doubts about what they heard, they just went straight ahead and did it. Here I am questioning whether the idea to call a friend who I had a falling out with is from God or not. What's up with that
?
I have to go, but I'll be back later to discus this some more.
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OldSkool
Check out Acts 9:10-15 (the Lord is Jesus Christ - not God - Jesus Christ is the head of the body and here he is talking to Ananias - not the great Apostle Ananias - Just lil ol' Ananias. See how he interacts with his Church, the members of his body?)
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
--- Jesus Christ is sending him on assignment to heal the guy who has been murdering Christians. I would say thats a pretty outside the box request that would have no scriptural basis for Ananias. So he asks Jesus Christ if he really knows what he's talking about (....and Jesus condemns him for being a dumbass...no---Jesus Christ is not Wierwille...mmm...catchy title for a book j/k...) and the Lord explains to Ananias what is going on, he gives him the comfort and exhortation he needs to go heal Saul. It's an amazing record. You can see this man's awesome faith by his obedient works, and we have Paul's works to this very day. Like I said earlier...God/Jesus Christ are prefectly capable to get your attention and make sure you know what you need to know. Can you see the relational nature though? Ananias and Jesus Christ are literally communicating. Yes - Ananias is having a vision but he answered the vision by talking to the Lord and the Lord answered in turn. Rest in faith...theres nothing to worry about. If nothing else have unshakeable trust in God's ability provide what you need. Still your mind on that truth. God is able. God knows we arent always able so he makes us able...it just requires our trust in him....that's faith.
This is all the faith you need....just a mustard seed will do.
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chockfull
How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason.
The opposite of that is an agitated loud voice. So many mental illnesses and disorders manifest themselves in agitation. Whether it is spectrum related items, depression, PTSD, ADHD , OCD or anything else in the mental health field, calming one’s self and getting to a non agitated state where you can think clearly is paramount to hearing anything from God. In agitation you hear your own thought buzzing around like a bumblebee. The new psychological manual the DSM V talks about things related to a spectrum not a disorder. So it is managing things on a scale.
Meditation, reading scripture, praying, self care all help to calm my mind and get it into a non agitated state where I can more easily distinguish the still small voice of God amongst the noise of the world.
In the Way being on a never ending hamster wheel to run a class witness to this guy solve this problem that never happened so they just wanted unqualified unquestioned compliance.
Self care.
There is a unique and new vocabulary word for Waybrains. No it doesn’t mean work yourself into a frenzy while SIT for the BOD and your lift list.
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OldSkool
Really salient points. As someone who underwent counselling for 16 weeks I can speak about the validity of understanding the psychological state an abusive cult can leave behind on an ex-leader. Not everyone has these types of problems post twi but some do... I certainly did and there's no shame in seeking help, even though it took me 10 years after TWI to admit I had serious issues post twi. Charity...don't read into what I'm saying...it's not directed at you or anyone really...Just sharing my life.
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chockfull
There is a stigma attached to any mental health issues. It is one that needs to be overcome. There is no shame in any of these variances in a spectrum behavior or the need to seek help for mental things in life.
I have migrated to looking at it like my annual physical. Check up the body. Check up the mind.
For very specific things I seek out targeted counseling. This usually runs in a 8 week cycle mostly because of insurance. I also did a therapy cycle leaving TWI.
Over time I have learned about myself (not a diagnosis from MD) that I have a showing on the autism spectrum a little but not extreme. I have been depressed but am not clinically. I am on ADHD spectrum as well but no diagnosis or meds. That’s mostly it. So the spectrum showings for me are lower not extreme. I control them by becoming aware of my trigger points to avoid agitation and self care.
Maybe that is also God telling me to use a little common sense and not to be too huge of a mystic. Or me figuring that out or whatever.
Practical advice about living scripture.
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T-Bone
You might enjoy thinking and looking outside of Scripture – you’re free to develop your own curriculum. The last few years I’ve pursued the philosophy of religion rather than just theology... I’m speaking as a layman – so this is just my 2 cents - theologians are usually bound by the tenets of their particular faith, and that puts limits on what they can argue, what they look into and what conclusions they can reach. They will accept certain concepts and principles on the basis of faith alone – but me, I guess being part technician and part renegade - I like to think outside the theological box and explore the heck out of something as much as I can with what little I know of theology and standard philosophical/analytic methods.
Something related to this topic that I got into thinking about a while back was 3 concepts: inspiration, illumination, and revelation. I pursued it from a few different angles – look for a biblical definition, look for a scholarly definition, look for a common person’s understanding. Find illustrations of each in the Bible and/or in your own life. This is just an example of making up one’s own study program.
~ ~ ~ ~
If I were you, I’d call your old friend – especially if it ended unpleasantly…
I was the one who soured true friendships when I got in TWI – because of where I drew the line - if they weren’t interested in “The Word”, then I was no longer interested in them.
Maybe due to a lot of pride, shame or what - I don’t know – I never made an effort to make amends for being an aloof Bible fanatic.
then a couple of years ago one of my old friends contacted me!
We reminisced a bunch. He still keeps in touch with most of our old circle of friends. He got me caught up on himself and others. I decided to do the same – starting off with apologizing for being snobbish after joining TWI – moved around for them, got tired of being exploited and left – played catch up career-wise, yada yada, yada I’ve got a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, 1 cat, own our home. When we wrapped up our conversation, I told him to say hello to the old gang and that I’m done with my religious cult phase - sorry I was such an a$$-hole and I still think about everyone once in a while.
I'm not assuming your falling out is similar...but just going on the fact that you've thought about contacting them - seems like a good idea - whether it's from God or your own heart - it doesn't matter. The only thing I assume is that you have good intentions - unless you're planning to get one last insult in
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Charity
Thanks for the chuckle at the end. Reading about your outside-the-box life compared to what you had inside the box (twi), is like night and day. It's the cult's "give me all your resources" dogma that made them so much money during their heyday.
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Charity
Excuse me for getting off topic, but I have one observation and one question.
Observation: I'm realizing just today how many more people read this site other than the Grease Spotters I've come to know (some with good intentions - others with not so good).
Question: With all the horrible things that have happened in the corps over the years, I'm wondering how a few people who were close to my heart and went into the corps are doing. Is there a way I can ask on GSC if anyone knows what's happened to them? It would be inappropriate to ask on publicly-viewed threads like these.
Thanks
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WordWolf
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/forum/17-friend-tracker/
You can specify in the thread for people to send you private messages in reply.
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Charity
Reading your last paragraph brought tears to my eyes and warmth to my heart. It so fits in with how God and Jesus Christ work in us. Thank you
(I don't drink but I love chocolate so here's to you and I having a chocolate shake together.
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OldSkool
Cool! Im really thankful, bit emotional too....very happy though.
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Charity
"How I personally feel about this is that the still small voice mentioned to teach Samuel about revelation is described that way for a reason."
Inspiring point you shared. When I recently read 1 Samuel, it was like an action film where God's leaders such as David and Johnathon were making all these life-or-death decisions immediately after hearing from God. Now I can see how OT people who heard God tell them to do some "wild and crazy" thing (like how Joshua was to break down the walls of Jericho) must have first experienced some kind of still small voice from God. They probably also talked with God about their doubts like Ananias did with Jesus as OldSkool's wrote about in his post.
As a teacher, it was the regular tidal bore in my brain caused by the overwhelming high expectations I placed on myself that triggered episodes of acute anxiety followed by depression. I really needed to hear that still small voice of God at those times.
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Charity
That's even better for this time of year. Cheers!
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Twinky
How does God work in us, Charity?
Love God, love your fellow human beings. And yourself. Do nice things for people. Be kind. Remember with a thankful heart what God has done for you. Simples!
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chockfull
Teaching in the modern school system is crazy. Way too much going on in schools. Probably most teachers feel anxiety and depression for more than one reason. Pay, mass shooters, pandemic, gender related items, lack of budget and staffing, classroom management, mental issues in class and it goes on. Plus the observations by leaders. I don’t know if that environment is 100 % you but if so give yourself a break and thank you for your service to our community!
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Charity
Simple sounds good - an unburdened way of life - but this time around having a personal spiritual relationship with God and Christ while doing it. I do feel close to them when I'm reading the Bible, but I have to be careful not to quickly detour off into some in-depth word study. I think it's a habit left over from twi days.
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Charity
Thanks, I loved my job and the age group I was teaching (6-8 year olds).
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Twinky
Very easy to do! And yes, a bad habit ingrained by TWI. Write your question or interesting word down ("Any questions will be answered after session 12") but remember, you can always go back and have a go at answering your own question, or considering why that word was used in that passage, to what effect? Or was it just - a word?
You may find it helpful to read a completely different version of the Bible, with fewer trigger words, perhaps. I went straight from AV/KJV to reading The Message (I read something different now). The change shocks you out of TWI-brain and makes you pay attention to the passage you're reading.
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Charity
On my walk today, I was talking to Christ about what he wants me to do as a member of his body. After a few ideas went through my mind, I felt I knew what his answer was. It was to simply begin to love my fellow human beings.
I have always been shy and preferred to be as invisible around people as possible. I often tell certain people that I would be happy living as a hermit. Other than my children, I have had little to no contact with my brothers and their families. I have had no desire to make or be with friends.
So this is how I believe Christ wants to work with me. Just to begin acknowledging people when I'm out and about, to smile, and at times even talk with them. I know I can do this by being in fellowship with Christ and I want to do this because he's put it on my heart.
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OldSkool
Cool! For me it was the same type of question...what jelled up in my heart was to take care of and love those in my family, and also people I interface with throughout the day. So, I am doing just that. I have some really cool conversations with folks just by being respectful and light hearted. Ditto on being as invisible as possible. Im dang near a recluse anymore, serious homebody.
As for witnessing...there is no such thing to me. I talk scripture with a lot of people, and it's not always quotes from the KJV. I feel no pressure to undershepherd anyone, because my job is to bring them to Christ. Obviously, at times there are needs that come up where I pray for people or get specific and personal. But the cool thing is Im taking them to Christ and not TWI. No pressure, just service to our Lord. No name tag, none of that junk. It's not needed.
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Charity
OldSkool, you're a great champion
for newbies like me on GSC. My first couple of thoughts were heavier ones like witnessing and going to a church. I feel Christ wants me to begin with the ordinary, typical person so I can learn not to be a respecter of persons and to just be myself around people. I'm sure he'll lead me into more as we go along. It'll be interesting to do so without all the way baggage you mentioned above.
Do have the 4 seasons where you live? Are there places you like to go for a walk?
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OldSkool
4 seasons - yes - live in Cincinnati. Dont really get out and walk much anymore...kinda lame I know...lol...
Ordinary and typical is where life happens. The way international adds the word "spiritual" as a modifier and makes their own subculture to support the modified concepts. Its the word of life it just fits everyday life. Consider the Lords prayer in this case:
We bring God's will to earth as we abide in the Word of Life. It all happens right here in front of us...
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Charity
"Ordinary and typical is where life happens." I
it!
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Twinky
What did Jesus do? Walked about, interacted with the people around him. Noticed folk (or they noticed him). Smiled and said Salaam (or hello), perhaps, to them. Observed what they were doing. Got involved, but not in an oppressive way, just interested.
Early on in my Way life, I remember chatting to an E-Corpsman or perhaps he could have been WC but a Brit, a nice chap, can't remember his name now. We were up in Gartmore, sleeping on camp beds in the gym - so early on in that purchase. And I remember "Chappie's" words: "If you want to help people, you've got to really love them." (Whoever he was, I hope he has escaped TWI and has his brain still intact.)
That love and care will come out in our actions. Each person you talk to, smile at, is special. Remember too: Jesus died for that person. How special is that?
As City Pastors in the city in which I live, our role includes going out on the streets and interacting with whoever we find. The first part of our patrol is often having a chat with people begging in the streets. Yes, we look at them. We talk to them. We see them as human beings, and don't let our eyes slide over them like a heap of rubbish in the corner. Sometimes, we offer a hot drink and a cereal bar, or warm hats and other clothing. But the main thing with this group of people is: we notice them.
If you see a beggar in the street, stop and have a chat. You're perfectly safe; they won't attack you. If they're willing to talk, you might be surprised at their life story and what has made them become street-homeless (there might be a bit of "embroidery" in their story, but maybe not too much). You don't have to give them money, but they might appreciate a sandwich, a coffee or a chocolate bar.
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