I've seen your (and others') piddly offerings, which are no more than suggestions that alt-vpw doctrines should be considered. These are simple contradictions of what we were taught in PFAL, and have NOTHING to offer, except to shelter vpw-phobes.
You basically have NOTHING solid offer, and think that the Ocean of Doubt is a nice place to be.
Comparatively speaking, what you all can offer may very well be a little better than whatever garbage held you into the crazy confines of TWI-2 and/or TWI-3, but no thanks. I spent too many years in that wandering menagerie before finding PFAL in my hippie days.
If you want specifics of the fruit in my life, you will need to become meek.
Not much chance of that, but otherwise you can't receive it from me. Let me know if that meekness thing ever happens again in your life. It certainly aint happening now. You can't hide your lust to find fresh Gotcha hooks in my testimony to hang your doubting denouncements on.
Why should I tell you, anyway? I don't need to mention the benefits of PFAL to the reading folks at home, because it they already enjoying them themselves, the readers that I target.
You claim there's fruit in your life. Once again you use the abstract (like all that supposed good Saint Vic was supposed to do). How about some specifics?
Considering you claim we have piddly replacements, I would assume you have oodles of examples of fruit in your life.
Another botched seduction.
Did you run out of Gotcha hooks also?
I'd rather discuss the doctrines that produced the fruit that fires me up.
Me discussing my life and fruit will not help you recover your mind for renewal. It will not help any readers.
What I do here is straighten out the errors that took you and others over the edge into darkness. Those that like the darkness need not participate, and should not be surprised if I don't participate in silly Gotcha Games.
I'd rather discuss the doctrines that produced the fruit that fires me up.
Me discussing my life and fruit will not help you recover your mind for renewal. It will not help any readers.
What I do here is straighten out the errors that took you and others over the edge into darkness. Those that like the darkness need not participate, and should not be surprised if I don't participate in silly Gotcha Games.
Save me the bull.
You're trying to tell me testimonies don't help anyone.
If you had fruit in your life you'd be bragging it up to the rafters.
If you had fruit in your life you'd be bragging it up to the rafters.
SINCE I have fruit in my life, I need not brag about it.
I have mentioned some of the benefits here before, but it was summarily rejected. You know in your heart how strongly you are poised to pounce on anything I would offer now. I know it; you know it; the readers know it. I am supposed to not cast my pearls before swine. It is a waste of time. You know you just want to roll in the mud with whatever I told you.
I'd rather discuss the doctrines that produced the fruit that fires me up.
Me discussing my life and fruit will not help you recover your mind for renewal. It will not help any readers.
What I do here is straighten out the errors that took you and others over the edge into darkness. Those that like the darkness need not participate, and should not be surprised if I don't participate in silly Gotcha Games.
What I do here is straighten out the humongous pile of bullshonta that appears after your attempts to “straighten out errors”.
Usually it’s some new abstract theory about the legitimacy of Plaffy that helps you regurgitate dead collaterals.
I am not “over the edge n darkness”. But that reminds me. Usually along with shoveling bullshonta from you I always need to refute some kind of unfounded accusation that involves an ad hominem attack on my and others characters.
The only gotcha involved here already sunk it’s hooks in you 30 plus years ago.
I've seen your (and others') piddly offerings, which are no more than suggestions that alt-vpw doctrines should be considered. These are simple contradictions of what we were taught in PFAL, and have NOTHING to offer, except to shelter vpw-phobes.
You basically have NOTHING solid offer, and think that the Ocean of Doubt is a nice place to be.
Comparatively speaking, what you all can offer may very well be a little better than whatever garbage held you into the crazy confines of TWI-2 and/or TWI-3, but no thanks. I spent too many years in that wandering menagerie before finding PFAL in my hippie days.
If you want specifics of the fruit in my life, you will need to become meek.
Not much chance of that, but otherwise you can't receive it from me. Let me know if that meekness thing ever happens again in your life. It certainly aint happening now. You can't hide your lust to find fresh Gotcha hooks in my testimony to hang your doubting denouncements on.
Why should I tell you, anyway? I don't need to mention the benefits of PFAL to the reading folks at home, because it they already enjoying them themselves, the readers that I target.
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life."
There have been so many testimonies from posters of how their lives have improved spiritually, mentally, financially, etc. after leaving and recovering from twi. Either you are skipping over them because they make you feel too uncomfortable or you can't allow yourself to believe they're true - and maybe there are other unknown reasons for your doing so. The point is that although you may miss the impact of their testimonies, many others like myself, did not.
SINCE I have fruit in my life, I need not brag about it.
I have mentioned some of the benefits here before, but it was summarily rejected. You know in your heart how strongly you are poised to pounce on anything I would offer now. I know it; you know it; the readers know it.
Like I said, believing equals recieving.
5 minutes ago, Mike said:
I am supposed to not cast my pearls before swine. It is a waste of time. You know you just want to roll in the mud with whatever I told you.
As Saint Vic says in the class, I don't care to hear the details of the birth, show me the baby. I want to see the baby!
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life."
There have been so many testimonies from posters of how their lives have improved spiritually, mentally, financially, etc. after leaving and recovering from twi. Either you are skipping over them because they make you feel too uncomfortable or you can't allow yourself to believe they're true - and maybe there are other unknown reasons for your doing so. The point is that although you may miss the impact of their testimonies, many others like myself, did not.
Yes for sure. My life is way better off without TWI. I was pulled in as a youth without a fully developed mature brain, had two decades of my young life filled with having two jobs and no days off helping to advance Pharisees number charts, and got fed up and put my foot down.
Now I have a career, a home with a mortgage, peace in marriage, and a great family with kids doing well and not jumping in front of trains like others who stayed in. And hobbies with time for them. And rich community connections that span churches, denominations, and cultures.
I don’t have a title though. Funny how false titles no longer hold their appeal.
I don’t have any molten metal idols around me either.
It is a lot easier ignoring the ad hominem attacks of a window cleaner philosopher when you know what your life has with respect to positive godly fruit.
I've seen your (and others') piddly offerings, which are no more than suggestions that alt-vpw doctrines should be considered. These are simple contradictions of what we were taught in PFAL, and have NOTHING to offer, except to shelter vpw-phobes.
You basically have NOTHING solid offer, and think that the Ocean of Doubt is a nice place to be.
Comparatively speaking, what you all can offer may very well be a little better than whatever garbage held you into the crazy confines of TWI-2 and/or TWI-3, but no thanks. I spent too many years in that wandering menagerie before finding PFAL in my hippie days.
If you want specifics of the fruit in my life, you will need to become meek.
Not much chance of that, but otherwise you can't receive it from me. Let me know if that meekness thing ever happens again in your life. It certainly aint happening now. You can't hide your lust to find fresh Gotcha hooks in my testimony to hang your doubting denouncements on.
Why should I tell you, anyway? I don't need to mention the benefits of PFAL to the reading folks at home, because it they already enjoying them themselves, the readers that I target.
You shouldn’t tell us. You should go preach to the tree stumps in your back yard like your father in the Word supposedly did.
Not much chance of that, but otherwise you can't receive it from me. Let me know if that meekness thing ever happens again in your life. It certainly aint happening now. You can't hide your lust to find fresh Gotcha hooks in my testimony to hang your doubting denouncements on.
46 minutes ago, Mike said:
Another botched seduction.
Did you run out of Gotcha hooks also?
By the words Mike used above, I think he is believing that we have problems with a certain devil spirit. OldSkool mentioned something to this effect in a recent post of his.
I once stumbled across an old thread titled Are Grease Spotters "Possessed?" There were some pretty humorous comments I enjoyed reading.
By the words Mike used above, I think he is believing that we have problems with a certain devil spirit. OldSkool mentioned something to this effect in a recent post of his.
I once stumbled across an old thread titled Are Grease Spotters "Possessed?" There were some pretty humorous comments I enjoyed reading.
Yes. All of TWI Will pretty much interpret 1 Timothy 4:1 as proof that those of us here on GSC have fallen prey to “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils”.
They take the first part of the verse as proof we have departed from the “faith” by defining that usage of “faith” as “family faith” and equate that with being an active TWI follower.
The reality of the situation is that TWI has 3 fingers pointing back at themselves because the true “doctrine of devils” lies right within PFAL re defining family faith and the body of Christ as terms that are correlated to active involvement in “the ministry”. The ministry is the Word and the Word is the ministry doncha know.
PFAL is rife with doctrines of devils.
#145 - I’m going to start numbering every time I refute an ad hominem attack with truth and logic.
The reality of the situation is that TWI has 3 fingers pointing back at themselves because the true “doctrine of devils” lies right within PFAL re defining family faith and the body of Christ as terms that are correlated to active involvement in “the ministry”. The ministry is the Word and the Word is the ministry doncha know.
That is why when I am accusing others I do it Magneto style. All fingers pointing outward in the direction of my target – less chance of self-inflicted wounds
That is why when I am accusing others I do it Magneto style. All fingers pointing outward in the direction of my target – less chance of self-inflicted wounds
I don’t think that metaphor works for anyone here. No one is swimming in an ocean of doubt.
The ocean is, perhaps, a better metaphor for Truth. Have you ever swam in the ocean? Ever swam out far enough from the beach that it gets a little spooky? Ever been out far enough on a fishing boat where shore is no longer visible, all alone?
What did you find? Or, what found you? Fear? Peace? Awe? Wonder? Humility? Power? Grace? All of the above? None of the above?
How immeasurably immense the ocean is! How indescribably immense!
If I walk into the surf, scoop some water with my cupped hands, is that the ocean in my hands? Obviously not!
Is Truth something to be possessed? Does it fit in a glove?
SINCE I have fruit in my life, I need not brag about it.
I have mentioned some of the benefits here before, but it was summarily rejected. You know in your heart how strongly you are poised to pounce on anything I would offer now. I know it; you know it; the readers know it. I am supposed to not cast my pearls before swine. It is a waste of time. You know you just want to roll in the mud with whatever I told you.
Isn't the truth rather that you don't know how to tell a coherent story?
I don’t think that metaphor works for anyone here. No one is swimming in an ocean of doubt.
The ocean is, perhaps, a better metaphor for Truth. Have you ever swam in the ocean? Ever swam out far enough from the beach that it gets a little spooky? Ever been out far enough on a fishing boat where shore is no longer visible, all alone?
What did you find? Or, what found you? Fear? Peace? Awe? Wonder? Humility? Power? Grace? All of the above? None of the above?
How immeasurably immense the ocean is! How indescribably immense!
If I walk into the surf, scoop some water with my cupped hands, is that the ocean in my hands? Obviously not!
Is Truth something to be possessed? Does it fit in a glove?
I really like how you spoke about the ocean. Being in or nearby any body of water has been a soothing place for me. Your connecting it to what truth is was notable. And that's why I find it a problem being too focused on just one thing like a Bible class (pfal) or what one person says about the Bible (collaterals) or in looking at scriptures through the lens of what one man taught (vp) - it is so confining when one truly wants to understand how immense God is.
Mike is his own case study on how one can expect people from the way international to respond when they are faced with civil disagreement. I remember well what it was like to be so dang convinced that I am absolutely 100% correct on most things to do with the Bible, and by golly, the way international provided air tight "research"...yeah...they call it proven ministry research indicating that the topics are above question. Proven ministry research is considered absolute truth.
Such an arrogant position.
So typically, and we see it with mike, when one debates with someone blinded by wierwille-ism they almost always resort to bullying tactic, (ad-hominem attacks, passive agressive insults, even loud and boisterous yelling and screaming like a spoiled child, etc) if they can't dominate the conversation and browbeat those they debate with into submission. So when confronted with the illogic and gaping holes in wierwille's materials they come to a crossroads: give in to the cognitive dissonance caused by wierwille's doctrines and what the Bible actually teaches and run like h377 back to wierwille's doctrines or they can actually turn aside and consider other's points of view. Should this honest route be chosen then they would do as the Bereans and search the scriptures daily whether these things are so. Mike, et al., typically choose the run to wierwille route and resort to all sorts of slanderous insults, playing the victim, etc. Why the animosity? Because they are caught in an us verses them mentality that the way international builds into their adherants. Without the us verses them schtik the wierwille's entire story falls apart on yet another front....I mean it's allready falllen apart on so many angles, I guess another set of stress fractures won't hurt anything.
Mike's word choices and several posts he put up today absolutely reek with an attitude of superiority and it's obvious he thinks everone who posts here is posessed, living in outer darkness, or whatever imagined scary scenario exists outside of the way international. Cult mentality, then they have their own jargon and way speak that makes little sense outside of a home fellowship where most people throw way speak around to each other as if actually makes any sense to begin with.
Thank the Lord Jesus Christ that he has delivered me from the way international and their toxic doctrines that hide Christ and elevate a drunken, narcissistic, idol that they choose instead of Christ.
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OldSkool
I do want to address this Mike. You constantly come at me like I have forgotten, or have been talked out of the truth of wierwille, or that I just don't understand where you are coming from. Personall
waysider
This right here. If you're unable to define and regulate your control factors and variables, your research is worthless. The best you could hope for would be an observational analysis of your collecte
Charity
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life." There have
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So_crates
In other words, you got nothing.
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Mike
Another botched seduction.
Did you run out of Gotcha hooks also?
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Mike
The truths in PFAL are true no matter how rotten VPW's old man nature was.
The fruit from PFAL in my life is true no matter what your rotten old-man nature thinks of it.
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So_crates
Here's wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life.
Oh, wait, I'm already doing that.
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So_crates
Believing equals recieving, Mike.
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Mike
....I got nothing I want to offer to you.
I'd rather discuss the doctrines that produced the fruit that fires me up.
Me discussing my life and fruit will not help you recover your mind for renewal. It will not help any readers.
What I do here is straighten out the errors that took you and others over the edge into darkness. Those that like the darkness need not participate, and should not be surprised if I don't participate in silly Gotcha Games.
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So_crates
Save me the bull.
You're trying to tell me testimonies don't help anyone.
If you had fruit in your life you'd be bragging it up to the rafters.
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Mike
Got Gotcha hunger pangs, I see.
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Mike
SINCE I have fruit in my life, I need not brag about it.
I have mentioned some of the benefits here before, but it was summarily rejected. You know in your heart how strongly you are poised to pounce on anything I would offer now. I know it; you know it; the readers know it. I am supposed to not cast my pearls before swine. It is a waste of time. You know you just want to roll in the mud with whatever I told you.
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chockfull
What I do here is straighten out the humongous pile of bullshonta that appears after your attempts to “straighten out errors”.
Usually it’s some new abstract theory about the legitimacy of Plaffy that helps you regurgitate dead collaterals.
I am not “over the edge n darkness”. But that reminds me. Usually along with shoveling bullshonta from you I always need to refute some kind of unfounded accusation that involves an ad hominem attack on my and others characters.
The only gotcha involved here already sunk it’s hooks in you 30 plus years ago.
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Charity
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life."
There have been so many testimonies from posters of how their lives have improved spiritually, mentally, financially, etc. after leaving and recovering from twi. Either you are skipping over them because they make you feel too uncomfortable or you can't allow yourself to believe they're true - and maybe there are other unknown reasons for your doing so. The point is that although you may miss the impact of their testimonies, many others like myself, did not.
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So_crates
No, just wondering why you even bother preaching if you don't want to give a testimonial.
Your gotcha excuse not only shows your believing, but shows how dumb you think your audience is.
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So_crates
Like I said, believing equals recieving.
As Saint Vic says in the class, I don't care to hear the details of the birth, show me the baby. I want to see the baby!
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chockfull
Yes for sure. My life is way better off without TWI. I was pulled in as a youth without a fully developed mature brain, had two decades of my young life filled with having two jobs and no days off helping to advance Pharisees number charts, and got fed up and put my foot down.
Now I have a career, a home with a mortgage, peace in marriage, and a great family with kids doing well and not jumping in front of trains like others who stayed in. And hobbies with time for them. And rich community connections that span churches, denominations, and cultures.
I don’t have a title though. Funny how false titles no longer hold their appeal.
I don’t have any molten metal idols around me either.
It is a lot easier ignoring the ad hominem attacks of a window cleaner philosopher when you know what your life has with respect to positive godly fruit.
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chockfull
You shouldn’t tell us. You should go preach to the tree stumps in your back yard like your father in the Word supposedly did.
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Charity
By the words Mike used above, I think he is believing that we have problems with a certain devil spirit. OldSkool mentioned something to this effect in a recent post of his.
I once stumbled across an old thread titled Are Grease Spotters "Possessed?" There were some pretty humorous comments I enjoyed reading.
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chockfull
Yes. All of TWI Will pretty much interpret 1 Timothy 4:1 as proof that those of us here on GSC have fallen prey to “seducing spirits and doctrines of devils”.
They take the first part of the verse as proof we have departed from the “faith” by defining that usage of “faith” as “family faith” and equate that with being an active TWI follower.
The reality of the situation is that TWI has 3 fingers pointing back at themselves because the true “doctrine of devils” lies right within PFAL re defining family faith and the body of Christ as terms that are correlated to active involvement in “the ministry”. The ministry is the Word and the Word is the ministry doncha know.
PFAL is rife with doctrines of devils.
#145 - I’m going to start numbering every time I refute an ad hominem attack with truth and logic.
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T-Bone
That is why when I am accusing others I do it Magneto style. All fingers pointing outward in the direction of my target – less chance of self-inflicted wounds
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chockfull
T Bone is way funnier than me lol.
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Nathan_Jr
“An ocean of doubt.”
I don’t think that metaphor works for anyone here. No one is swimming in an ocean of doubt.
The ocean is, perhaps, a better metaphor for Truth. Have you ever swam in the ocean? Ever swam out far enough from the beach that it gets a little spooky? Ever been out far enough on a fishing boat where shore is no longer visible, all alone?
What did you find? Or, what found you? Fear? Peace? Awe? Wonder? Humility? Power? Grace? All of the above? None of the above?
How immeasurably immense the ocean is! How indescribably immense!
If I walk into the surf, scoop some water with my cupped hands, is that the ocean in my hands? Obviously not!
Is Truth something to be possessed? Does it fit in a glove?
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
Isn't the truth rather that you don't know how to tell a coherent story?
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Nathan_Jr
H.
O.
W.
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Charity
I really like how you spoke about the ocean. Being in or nearby any body of water has been a soothing place for me. Your connecting it to what truth is was notable. And that's why I find it a problem being too focused on just one thing like a Bible class (pfal) or what one person says about the Bible (collaterals) or in looking at scriptures through the lens of what one man taught (vp) - it is so confining when one truly wants to understand how immense God is.
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OldSkool
Mike is his own case study on how one can expect people from the way international to respond when they are faced with civil disagreement. I remember well what it was like to be so dang convinced that I am absolutely 100% correct on most things to do with the Bible, and by golly, the way international provided air tight "research"...yeah...they call it proven ministry research indicating that the topics are above question. Proven ministry research is considered absolute truth.
Such an arrogant position.
So typically, and we see it with mike, when one debates with someone blinded by wierwille-ism they almost always resort to bullying tactic, (ad-hominem attacks, passive agressive insults, even loud and boisterous yelling and screaming like a spoiled child, etc) if they can't dominate the conversation and browbeat those they debate with into submission. So when confronted with the illogic and gaping holes in wierwille's materials they come to a crossroads: give in to the cognitive dissonance caused by wierwille's doctrines and what the Bible actually teaches and run like h377 back to wierwille's doctrines or they can actually turn aside and consider other's points of view. Should this honest route be chosen then they would do as the Bereans and search the scriptures daily whether these things are so. Mike, et al., typically choose the run to wierwille route and resort to all sorts of slanderous insults, playing the victim, etc. Why the animosity? Because they are caught in an us verses them mentality that the way international builds into their adherants. Without the us verses them schtik the wierwille's entire story falls apart on yet another front....I mean it's allready falllen apart on so many angles, I guess another set of stress fractures won't hurt anything.
Mike's word choices and several posts he put up today absolutely reek with an attitude of superiority and it's obvious he thinks everone who posts here is posessed, living in outer darkness, or whatever imagined scary scenario exists outside of the way international. Cult mentality, then they have their own jargon and way speak that makes little sense outside of a home fellowship where most people throw way speak around to each other as if actually makes any sense to begin with.
Thank the Lord Jesus Christ that he has delivered me from the way international and their toxic doctrines that hide Christ and elevate a drunken, narcissistic, idol that they choose instead of Christ.
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