I can understand you your need for saying what you say about me to the others, about how anything I say is a waste of time to think about.
Think about this: why don't you start a thread on it?
You could go back to all the times you said it on past threads and consolidate all your thoughts about how thoughts on this line of reasoning is a waste.
How will I know your will, if I can't read your words? Simple math, baby. Take a break. Take a nap. Do it all while standing, of course. That way no one gets missed.
See? Fresh salad is always being served. Just a tremendous kernel!
Hey, I didn't write the book, so I know how you feel, and I can't do this alone.
Some call it parallel. Some call it balanced. I call it a kaiser blade. SIMPLE!
Hi Mike – perhaps someday you’ll understand how one’s perception of wierwille was shaped by how much of a composite image is formed from seeing his different sides.
It is not just his public persona but how he behaved in unguarded moments and further if one has had the unfortunate experience of being sexually molested by him.
I’ve learned in life we are initially known by our words, but over time our deeds either support our words - or they nullify our words and sabotage our efforts to influence others.
Just wanted to explain this to you over the times you go on and on how we’re all sinners - and I agree!
but you also talk about folks on Grease Spot being too harsh on wierwille- maybe without realizing there's a whole other side - a darker side of wierwille that you were not aware of.
I think you use absolute thinking – or black and white thinking. That myopic view does not take into account the biblical data that suggests some sins are worse than others and the consequences of some sins are more destructive than others.
That being said – since you have not been through the corps program you have never witnessed wierwille in unguarded moments – instances of wierwille doing and saying stuff that would indicate bad judgement on his part – stuff that, to the uninitiated would surely offend , horrify, or even shock them that the teacher of PFAL would behave this way .
For example, the pajama party with wierwille at Rome City showing a porn video to the corps under the pretext of preparing us to counsel anyone even those who work in the porn industry or are into watching porn...
...Or the time he was in the Rome City Coachman Suite, sexually molesting Kristen – as mentioned in her book…
These incidents present a different side of him that you have not witnessed or experienced. You can read about the horrifying stories of wierwille’s depraved behavior – but if you’ve never been there to experience them – it can seem like exaggerated or fabricated stories – because it doesn’t agree with how you’ve experienced the nice, warm and fuzzy prim and proper wierwille.
I don’t expect you to flat out believe the accounts of wierwille’s depravity shared on Grease Spot.
But I wish you would have some respect for what former corps have shared here – realizing that they may have a more complete picture of the real wierwille even though it disagrees with your romanticized and sanitized version that was presented to the general TWI public.
But that doesn’t let you off the hook.
I knowyou knowin your heart there’s some dark and ominous underpinnings to wierwille’s ministry. But love and admiration can blind someone to another’s faults.
People usually find what they’re looking for.
I know you’ve been around TWI from a long time ago. Surely in all that time – I can’t imagine you’ve never met a woman who had been sexually molested by wierwille and may have tried to relate to you something so horrible that happened to her - but she couldn't find the words or courage to make herself vulnerable ...people would attack her for starting rumors or attacking wierwille's ministry...wierwille would say stuff to cause people to doubt any negative words about him ---for instance I know you've heard him say about those who have criticized him or complain about some horrible thing he did , that's how the adversary always works to cause division - - they did it to Jesus, did it to Paul...or maybe you heard about that happening to someone you knew.
You should dust off those old memories and ignored red flags. Seek and you will find.
6 hours ago, Rocky said:
Then again, perhaps someday YOU will understand there's NFW you're going to get through Mike's impenetrable confirmation bias.
IF you want to address the imagined lurkers, you might consider a different strategy than just being tossed about with every wind of Mike's bull shonta.
6 hours ago, T-Bone said:
What makes you think my intent is to get through Mike’s impenetrable confirmation bias?
Oh, maybe you’re using the “to whom is it addressed?” nonsense of PFAL/Bullinger. I have my reasons for the way I say things – and I’m not really interested in hearing about your rules and preferences for my voice. If you’re the self-designated thread monitor, I hope you don’t get frustrated or feel insulted that I ignore your silly - - comments.
If you are a moderator, please do something official like cite the GSC rules I am violating or ban me, or do something that will appease your ire. I’m easy – I’ll move on – I've got better things to do than argue with someone over my voice. This isn’t the way corps program, and you are not my superior.
Perhaps what you imagine is different from what I think.
4 hours ago, Rocky said:
I am not a moderator. What makes you think my "ire" needs to be appeased?
3 hours ago, T-Bone said:
oh, I don't know...maybe the fact that I can count on you to express your displeasure over my posts that speak to Mike's nonsense.
10 minutes ago, Rocky said:
Freedom of speech, dude.
5 minutes ago, Rocky said:
It's not (ever) about you. It's about ideas. Always.
How will I know your will, if I can't read your words? Simple math, baby. Take a break. Take a nap. Do it all while standing, of course. That way no one gets missed.
See? Fresh salad is always being served. Just a tremendous kernel!
Hey, I didn't write the book, so I know how you feel, and I can't do this alone.
Some call it parallel. Some call it balanced. I call it a kaiser blade. SIMPLE!
I think you went way over passed prophecy and into distilling of spirits
How would you know? My daddy owns this bar. Be I decide what my daddy says. He has cookies. Hold on… I know they are around here somewhere…
I have it on pretty good authority…well…actually according to the Great Principal (the person with the highest authority and most important position – who is also in charge of the bathroom on the bus )Drambuie is a spirit , which leeches off the brain cells in you, which is now your problem and your problem becomes Manischewitz on the top shelf as you…uhm... what was the question again?
I have it on pretty good authority…well…actually according to the Great Principal (the person with the highest authority and most important position – who is also in charge of the bathroom on the bus )Drambuie is a spirit , which leeches off the brain cells in you, which is now your problem and your problem becomes Manischewitz on the top shelf as you…uhm... what was the question again?
TRANSITIVE PROPERTY!!!
(Not really a question. Sorry for yelling. Wasn’t sure if you could hear me.)
Meanwhile, can you or anyone else here, reasonably expect me to throw away the baby (the fruit in my life) with the bathwater (VPW's old-man nature) ????
What piddly replacement could you offer? Nothing
You claim there's fruit in your life. Once again you use the abstract (like all that supposed good Saint Vic was supposed to do). How about some specifics?
Considering you claim we have piddly replacements, I would assume you have oodles of examples of fruit in your life.
It is MYTH, not fact. Mike is exercising his imagination. I don't criticize him doing so. But it's important for readers to put it in a reasonable perspective.
On 4/17/2023 at 4:11 PM, Rocky said:
I'm not sure you can factually perceive any reason Mike "will never get it."
Yes, Mike is dealing in myth. But it appears to me Mike expands wierwille's mythology by extrapolating verses he's now focused on with his (Mike's) imaginative interpretation of something he has no way of knowing except by way of his own imagination.
On 4/17/2023 at 4:44 PM, Rocky said:
You certainly can have an opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's. Nevertheless, should your opinion put him in a box he might never decide to climb out of?
On 4/17/2023 at 4:46 PM, Rocky said:
I clearly recall Dale Carnegie teaching we do better at winning friends and influencing people when we give them a reputation to live up to.
On 4/18/2023 at 12:49 AM, Rocky said:
On 4/17/2023 at 10:17 PM, Rocky said:
Parsing some semantics, I suppose. Indeed, only God knows, if anyone, at this point. However, the point I was making has to do with Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. After all, our species is fundamentally social. But most certainly wouldn't argue that he put himself in the box. And whether he ever climbs out is quite definitely up to him.
However, I also seem to recall NT scriptures about not placing stumbling blocks in front of our brothers or sisters.
Hi Rocky,
You recently wrote the following about Mike in your post to T-Bone
Then again, perhaps someday YOU will understand there's NFW you're going to get through Mike's impenetrable confirmation bias.
IF you want to address the imagined lurkers, you might consider a different strategy than just being tossed about with every wind of Mike's bull shonta
You and I once traded some posts about how you claimed OldSkool was putting Mike in a box by saying he "will never get it." You shared with me about Dale Carnegie's teaching that we should give people a reputation to live up to. You also sent me the post where you wrote about not placing stumbling blocks in front of our brothers and sisters. After reading these two suggestions, I later apologized to Mike about once again putting him in a box.
Seeing your support of Mike in the quotes above, I'm wondering why you replied to T-Bone's post to Mike as quoted in blue above?
Meanwhile, can you or anyone else here, reasonably expect me to throw away the baby (the fruit in my life) with the bathwater (VPW's old-man nature) ????
What piddly replacement could you offer? Nothing
You claim there's fruit in your life. Once again you use the abstract (like all that supposed good Saint Vic was supposed to do). How about some specifics?
Considering you claim we have piddly replacements, I would assume you have oodles of examples of fruit in your life.
Edited by So_crates
To answer Mike's questions -
1. I don't think anyone expects anything of you. Reason wasn't involved when you fixed your beleeef in victor paul wierwille, reason won't get you out of it. This seems obvious, self-evident.
2. I'm not sure anyone is offering a replacement beleeef. I don't see any evangelizing or proselytizing here. I see a tremendously diverse bunch with at least one thing in common.
You recently wrote the following about Mike in your post to T-Bone
Then again, perhaps someday YOU will understand there's NFW you're going to get through Mike's impenetrable confirmation bias.
IF you want to address the imagined lurkers, you might consider a different strategy than just being tossed about with every wind of Mike's bull shonta
You and I once traded some posts about how you claimed OldSkool was putting Mike in a box by saying he "will never get it." You shared with me about Dale Carnegie's teaching that we should give people a reputation to live up to. You also sent me the post where you wrote about not placing stumbling blocks in front of our brothers and sisters. After reading these two suggestions, I later apologized to Mike about once again putting him in a box.
Seeing your support of Mike in the quotes above, I'm wondering why you replied to T-Bone's post to Mike as quoted in blue above?
I didn't factually claim Mike will never get it. Nevertheless, I believe Mike will never get it. I certainly would be happy if someday Mike gets it and proves me wrong. Recognizing Mike's confirmation bias, however, is not something I or anyone could necessarily prove about anyone...
It's important (for me) to recognize and accept that I'm not always right, nor will I always be right. It won't disappoint me or cause a wound to my ego when I learn that something I believe or believed ends up being wrong.
This is in stark contrast to the mindset and beliefs I developed during my 12 years in twi.
I didn't factually claim Mike will never get it. Nevertheless, I believe Mike will never get it. I certainly would be happy if someday Mike gets it and proves me wrong. Recognizing Mike's confirmation bias, however, is not something I or anyone could necessarily prove about anyone...
It's important (for me) to recognize and accept that I'm not always right, nor will I always be right. It won't disappoint me or cause a wound to my ego when I learn that something I believe or believed ends up being wrong.
This is in stark contrast to the mindset and beliefs I developed during my 12 years in twi.
I have had different mindsets when I've replied to Mike since being on GSC. It's like a pendulum where I swing back and forth between extremes and sometimes I'm more in the middle. At times I know my posts are pure emotional reactions to what he had written and other times, I'm a lot more contemplative in my word choice. There's also the spiritual side where Christ might have been guiding me as to what to say.
Because I have these metal balls banging back and forth in my brain and because this is an open forum, I think it's fair to let posters relate to Mike in whatever way they choose, within rules of course . In Mike's case, years of striking at a rock has produced little to nothing, but who knows, maybe one day Christ will cause water to flow out of it (I've been reading Exodus 17 ).
I'm not moralizing here, I just like there to be peace and quiet like in "What about Bob?"
Dr. Leo Marvin: I want some peace and quiet!Bob Wiley: Well, I'll be quiet. Siggy: I'll be peace!
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OldSkool
I do want to address this Mike. You constantly come at me like I have forgotten, or have been talked out of the truth of wierwille, or that I just don't understand where you are coming from. Personall
waysider
This right here. If you're unable to define and regulate your control factors and variables, your research is worthless. The best you could hope for would be an observational analysis of your collecte
Charity
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life." There have
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Nathan_Jr
Though that is objectively true, that's not what he's saying. Not REALLY.
It's a more nuanced point. It's not about YOU. Not REALLY.
That you won't or can't even understand what I'm saying, and that I am even attempting to explain it, well, that's REALLY what it's about.
*Here's a a recent TIP for your cookie jar: To/for parallel to the ablative case vertically aligned to the vocative case.
BOOM!
No one gets missed.
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waysider
"You just stand, Baby! Don't budge."
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T-Bone
I have lost the will to post
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Rocky
Freedom of speech, dude.
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Rocky
No thanks.
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T-Bone
great way to smooth things over
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Rocky
It's not (ever) about you. It's about ideas. Always.
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Nathan_Jr
How will I know your will, if I can't read your words? Simple math, baby. Take a break. Take a nap. Do it all while standing, of course. That way no one gets missed.
See? Fresh salad is always being served. Just a tremendous kernel!
Hey, I didn't write the book, so I know how you feel, and I can't do this alone.
Some call it parallel. Some call it balanced. I call it a kaiser blade. SIMPLE!
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T-Bone
obviously...it's about your ideas
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T-Bone
I think you went way over passed prophecy and into distilling of spirits
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Nathan_Jr
How (H-O-W) will the bartender know what to serve you unless you call the spirit by its name?
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T-Bone
I beleeeeeve this is one of those dive bars....owner has a tight budget and the double doors are in disrepair.
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Nathan_Jr
How would you know? My daddy owns this bar. I decide what my daddy says. He has cookies. Hold on… I know they are around here somewhere…
Edited by Nathan_JrLink to comment
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T-Bone
I have it on pretty good authority…well…actually according to the Great Principal (the person with the highest authority and most important position – who is also in charge of the bathroom on the bus ) Drambuie is a spirit , which leeches off the brain cells in you, which is now your problem and your problem becomes Manischewitz on the top shelf as you…uhm... what was the question again?
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Nathan_Jr
TRANSITIVE PROPERTY!!!
(Not really a question. Sorry for yelling. Wasn’t sure if you could hear me.)
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T-Bone
Transitive Property my ask!
To the best of my recollection, it’s yellin’ in the front and brownin’ in the back for those unaware of underwear orientation
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So_crates
You claim there's fruit in your life. Once again you use the abstract (like all that supposed good Saint Vic was supposed to do). How about some specifics?
Considering you claim we have piddly replacements, I would assume you have oodles of examples of fruit in your life.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
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Charity
Hi Rocky,
You recently wrote the following about Mike in your post to T-Bone
Then again, perhaps someday YOU will understand there's NFW you're going to get through Mike's impenetrable confirmation bias.
IF you want to address the imagined lurkers, you might consider a different strategy than just being tossed about with every wind of Mike's bull shonta
You and I once traded some posts about how you claimed OldSkool was putting Mike in a box by saying he "will never get it." You shared with me about Dale Carnegie's teaching that we should give people a reputation to live up to. You also sent me the post where you wrote about not placing stumbling blocks in front of our brothers and sisters. After reading these two suggestions, I later apologized to Mike about once again putting him in a box.
Seeing your support of Mike in the quotes above, I'm wondering why you replied to T-Bone's post to Mike as quoted in blue above?
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Nathan_Jr
l
To answer Mike's questions -
1. I don't think anyone expects anything of you. Reason wasn't involved when you fixed your beleeef in victor paul wierwille, reason won't get you out of it. This seems obvious, self-evident.
2. I'm not sure anyone is offering a replacement beleeef. I don't see any evangelizing or proselytizing here. I see a tremendously diverse bunch with at least one thing in common.
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Rocky
Well, of course. Why would you expect my posts to NOT be about my ideas?
Does that offend you?
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T-Bone
nope
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Rocky
On the subject of free will, this professor, Agustin Fuentes, has written about why we believe. And on why we believe WHAT we believe.
There's an old adage that we are what we eat (Thy words were found and I did eat them?). Prof Fuentes (who professes at Princeton University these days), says, in this video entitled Why belief is the most powerful disruptor, that we are WHO we MEET.
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Rocky
I didn't factually claim Mike will never get it. Nevertheless, I believe Mike will never get it. I certainly would be happy if someday Mike gets it and proves me wrong. Recognizing Mike's confirmation bias, however, is not something I or anyone could necessarily prove about anyone...
It's important (for me) to recognize and accept that I'm not always right, nor will I always be right. It won't disappoint me or cause a wound to my ego when I learn that something I believe or believed ends up being wrong.
This is in stark contrast to the mindset and beliefs I developed during my 12 years in twi.
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Charity
I have had different mindsets when I've replied to Mike since being on GSC. It's like a pendulum where I swing back and forth between extremes and sometimes I'm more in the middle. At times I know my posts are pure emotional reactions to what he had written and other times, I'm a lot more contemplative in my word choice. There's also the spiritual side where Christ might have been guiding me as to what to say.
Because I have these metal balls banging back and forth in my brain and because this is an open forum, I think it's fair to let posters relate to Mike in whatever way they choose, within rules of course
. In Mike's case, years of striking at a rock has produced little to nothing, but who knows, maybe one day Christ will cause water to flow out of it (I've been reading Exodus 17 
).
I'm not moralizing here, I just like there to be peace and quiet like in "What about Bob?"
Dr. Leo Marvin: I want some peace and quiet! Bob Wiley: Well, I'll be quiet. Siggy: I'll be peace!
A lot of wisdom in that movie
.
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