It gives them a cop out. “I never said that? Where did you get THAT?”
My fellowship commander used this cop out all the time. He is more absorbed in the collaterals than even you know who.
Right on! Definately does and he likely learned this little tactic from way international leadership methods. The information control efforts in the way international is beyond belief to outsiders. So much confidentiality; I guess they hate sunshine.
Every now and again, someone still claims that pfal and twi were special. Their reason for this is the claim that vpw was special. Their reason for this is the 1942 promise. vpw claimed he received a promise from God Almighty in 1942, and he used this claim to justify thinking of "his" books and classes to akin to the Bible itself.
The supposition that pfal was of significant long-term benefit hangs primarily on the alleged "1942 promise." That promise, as stated by vpw, was that God spoke audibly to vpw, and promised that God Almighty would teach vpw God's Word ;like it hadn't been known since the first century (AD) if vpw would teach it to others. vpw supposedly asked God to confirm this by a miraculous snowstorm.
Word Wolf posted this on April 29, 2020
All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed? We've done it lots of times before, this is mostly compilation.
A) The miraculous snowstorm never happened.
There was NO report of actual snow anywhere near where this allegedly happened. When it supposedly happened, he didn't even tell his own wife it happened. Come on, that would have been the first words out of any spouse's mouth that evening. ("Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me today...") He never claimed it until decades later. He couldn't keep the details of the miraculous event straight, even. When he first began making this claim, he said the sky looked BLACK with all the heavy snow. This, BTW, isn't what it looks like for even the heaviest snow. Later-probably because he learned that doesn't happen- he switched to saying the sky was WHITE with snow. I'm sure details can get lost over time, but if a miraculous event that turns the sky all one color, you'd at least remember the color.
Finally, this wasn't the only time vpw claimed a miraculous snowstorm. In fact, he did it whenever it was convenient. When he added special significance to the minister's conference where he met Stiles, vpw claimed that the entire city was snowed in completely. He was unable to get out because planes, trains and buses were all stopped due to heavy snow conditions, a blizzard. This was a rather big lie, and one that was checkable. When someone spoke to him about it, he didn't say "I was there and saw the snow and walked in it, check again", he immediately switched his story to prevent trying to contradict the weather report. He immediately began claiming the snow was an angelic apparition- angels made him see snow that wasn't there, and when he phoned transit places, angels answered the phone and lied to him. (He would rather have us think angels lied than that he lied.) In reality, not even a single FLAKE fell from the sky in that city that day, and the temperature didn't reach freezing. This wasn't the last time vpw made up a convenient snowstorm, even. A poster here once noted that vpw was supposed to visit their area. Instead, he phoned and said that he WANTED to fly there, but he was located at a bad snowstorm and he was told it was unsafe. The poster checked the weather in vpw's area at the time, and there was neither snow nor storms predicted.
So, the entire snow part was a lie. Without that, there's no 1942 promise. However, even if it was possible for there to have been a snowstorm (it's not possible), the other problems with his story would be enough to discredit it.
There WAS no 1942 promise. vpw was NEVER some great one. pfal was NEVER some great class nor great study materials. It was all built up as a con-and not the most secure con, either. It needed lots of outside help to prop it up.
Right on! Definately does and he likely learned this little tactic from way international leadership methods. The information control efforts in the way international is beyond belief to outsiders. So much confidentiality; I guess they hate sunshine.
Well, after all, he was in victor’s Corps.
I can’t begin to describe how astonishingly familiar all the talk is here.
Every now and again, someone still claims that pfal and twi were special. Their reason for this is the claim that vpw was special. Their reason for this is the 1942 promise. vpw claimed he received a promise from God Almighty in 1942, and he used this claim to justify thinking of "his" books and classes to akin to the Bible itself.
The supposition that pfal was of significant long-term benefit hangs primarily on the alleged "1942 promise." That promise, as stated by vpw, was that God spoke audibly to vpw, and promised that God Almighty would teach vpw God's Word ;like it hadn't been known since the first century (AD) if vpw would teach it to others. vpw supposedly asked God to confirm this by a miraculous snowstorm.
Word Wolf posted this on April 29, 2020
All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed? We've done it lots of times before, this is mostly compilation.
A) The miraculous snowstorm never happened.
There was NO report of actual snow anywhere near where this allegedly happened. When it supposedly happened, he didn't even tell his own wife it happened. Come on, that would have been the first words out of any spouse's mouth that evening. ("Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me today...") He never claimed it until decades later. He couldn't keep the details of the miraculous event straight, even. When he first began making this claim, he said the sky looked BLACK with all the heavy snow. This, BTW, isn't what it looks like for even the heaviest snow. Later-probably because he learned that doesn't happen- he switched to saying the sky was WHITE with snow. I'm sure details can get lost over time, but if a miraculous event that turns the sky all one color, you'd at least remember the color.
Finally, this wasn't the only time vpw claimed a miraculous snowstorm. In fact, he did it whenever it was convenient. When he added special significance to the minister's conference where he met Stiles, vpw claimed that the entire city was snowed in completely. He was unable to get out because planes, trains and buses were all stopped due to heavy snow conditions, a blizzard. This was a rather big lie, and one that was checkable. When someone spoke to him about it, he didn't say "I was there and saw the snow and walked in it, check again", he immediately switched his story to prevent trying to contradict the weather report. He immediately began claiming the snow was an angelic apparition- angels made him see snow that wasn't there, and when he phoned transit places, angels answered the phone and lied to him. (He would rather have us think angels lied than that he lied.) In reality, not even a single FLAKE fell from the sky in that city that day, and the temperature didn't reach freezing. This wasn't the last time vpw made up a convenient snowstorm, even. A poster here once noted that vpw was supposed to visit their area. Instead, he phoned and said that he WANTED to fly there, but he was located at a bad snowstorm and he was told it was unsafe. The poster checked the weather in vpw's area at the time, and there was neither snow nor storms predicted.
So, the entire snow part was a lie. Without that, there's no 1942 promise. However, even if it was possible for there to have been a snowstorm (it's not possible), the other problems with his story would be enough to discredit it.
There WAS no 1942 promise. vpw was NEVER some great one. pfal was NEVER some great class nor great study materials. It was all built up as a con-and not the most secure con, either. It needed lots of outside help to prop it up.
Lies often fall apart due to discrepancies in details.
And I will say that for alcoholics accurate memories can be a huge problem, as we all know Im am a recovering alcoholic. Drunkenness not only incapacitates it wrecks a person's memory where details are fuzzy. So his drinking may have been a contributing factor.
And I will say that for alcoholics accurate memories can be a huge problem, as we all know Im am a recovering alcoholic. Drunkenness not only incapacitates it wrecks a person's memory where details are fuzzy. So his drinking may have been a contributing factor.
Giving him the benefit of a doubt seems mighty generous on your part.
Giving him the benefit of a doubt seems mighty generous on your part.
In spite of being accused of being a hatefilled individual who only concentrates on victor paul wierwille's sin nature, I am as honest as possible in what I post and will readily admit error. I give him the benefit of the doubt only because I can't say for certain but have very high suspicions from my own personal experiences. BTW - the humor is not lost on me and my post is not really aimed at you waysider...were on the same page...
You expend none of the effort you do defending VP on defending Paul of the Bible.
You are accurately describing my time here at GSC.
But that is because Paul is not under attack here at GSC.
In Churchianity Paul is often systematically minimized.
New Age religions that like Jesus are almost always anti-Paul.
Modern secular Academia hate Paul.
You have no idea how I proportion my time elsewhere, do you!
Maybe you think I only have time for GSC?
For one thing, it is never VPW that I talk about with others, except rarely with a few grads. A decade or two I did more VPW talk with grads, but far less nowadays.
All through the 1970s I witnessed the green card to Christians outside TWI. This includes trinitarians, as I have reported here. I would go to neighboring churches and meet people and had extensive Bible conversations. They often called me a Paul idolator, or a more polite term for the same idea.
No I am accurate on the “real man” part. If you notice unlike your account it remains the same always but doesn’t waver back and forth like yours does.
The reason yours does waver like that is because of “ostriches”. These are birds who bury their head in the sand whenever controversy arises so they don’t have to look at any controversial “negatives” but only look at the positives. You have done this for more than 20 years and have been called out on it here at GSC for 15 of those years.
The problem with an “ostrich” point of view or alternatively a “Pollyanna” point of view is that it doesn’t resolve the very real negatives, it just pushes them downstream. Even downstream into the subconscious. This causes them to build up and many times can lead to extreme types of breaks like nervous breakdowns, or in another case here from a lawsuit results in healthy young people walking in front of trains t commit suicide. It is very detrimental and very dangerous.
I am 100 percent accurate calling you a VP idolator. You expend none of the effort you do defending VP on defending Paul of the Bible.
Other Christians observing TWI absolutely do NOT notice any great emphasis on Paul they notice cult-like behavior and doctrine. I’ve amply shared concrete examples of this. Look at the “Cults S3” thread here and watch the first video example for an accurate sample of other Christian views. But you won’t as you censor all potential negatives.
I will say that what you are trying to promote here is the same Pollyanna whitewash the Way does about Paul.
Paul didn’t steal a class from multiple people and label it his own. He just wrote letters. A lot from jail. He had zero ability to amass a self seeking cult that enriched him like VP was enriched by properties, planes, motor coaches, motorcycles, campuses and adulating followers.
Just like on my American Idol example the picture of Kelly Clarkson most have is not reality. She married her agent who found her success, who is Reba McIntire’s son. Bought a large ranch with him. Divorced. Took 2 years to kick him off her property. He had changed careers during that time and wanted to be a rancher. She denied that. Much much different image than the talk show host and singer persona that appears to America.
Just like that you and TWI promote a fake image of Victor Paul Wierwille that is supported by literal images in molten medal called “Timothy statues”. This promoted the false identity and f public image Wierwille rather than the real image which was known by those closest to him.
Hi Chockfull,
Two things: I was pretty sure vp told the snow story in pfal when he talked about taking all his books to the dump but apparently I was wrong. Also, the "Timothy statues." I'm pretty sure you're referring to the statues of vp but why have they been given that name?
In Churchianity Paul is often systematically minimized.
New Age religions that like Jesus are almost always anti-Paul.
Modern secular Academia hate Paul.
My experience has been mostly contrary to this. Emphasis seems to lean heavily on the side of examining the epistles, rather than the gospels..
Two things: I was pretty sure vp told the snow story in pfal when he talked about taking all his books to the dump but apparently I was wrong. Also, the "Timothy statues." I'm pretty sure you're referring to the statues of vp but why have they been given that name?
Why was the idol called the Timothy statue? Asking for me and Charity.
I dunno...im waiting to know as well....I mean didn't Paul make a bronze statue of Timothy back in Ephesus? I seem to remember seeing a picture in the original text....
Two things: I was pretty sure vp told the snow story in pfal when he talked about taking all his books to the dump but apparently I was wrong. Also, the "Timothy statues." I'm pretty sure you're referring to the statues of vp but why have they been given that name?
There are 2 categories of idols here.
1) the statue OS posted the photo of. This is given to clergy along with a Way Corps seal when they get ordained. All TWI clergy have that bronze of VPW sitting in a prominent position in their offices so all who come in can see it and take note of the great spiritual presence of the person who has it.
2) There were 2 life size bronze statues of “the teacher” made to place in the TWI teaching centers in New Knoxville and ? (Gunnison)? to signify the connection between Timothy taking charge of the scrolls from Paul and preserving it for his generation. Likewise VPW took PFAL and preserved it for his generation - these statues are commonly referred to as the “Timothy statues”.
The intent of both of these fictional art pieces was and is to preserve the whitewashed memory of Victor Paul Wierwille who they call their “father in the Word” to all succeeding generations. To preserve an idol image as opposed to the truth.
I actually have my own snowstorm story. You wanna hear it?
When I was an active Corps grad we had Corps nights every Wednesday night. We had to dress up in a suit and tie and drive and hour each way to participate in a phone hookup for Corps that was mandatory attendance. In those meetings there was ranting over people that left, libel and slander raking people over the coals who had somehow fallen outside Way guidelines, and very twisted teachings from zealots perspectives.
Many nights I remember snow and even blizzard conditions. But we were Corps so missing it was out of the question. So we drove and I affixed my vision to the dotted line a couple feet in front of my car and we prayed.
1) the statue OS posted the photo of. This is given to clergy along with a Way Corps seal when they get ordained. All TWI clergy have that bronze of VPW sitting in a prominent position in their offices so all who come in can see it and take note of the great spiritual presence of the person who has it.
2) There were 2 life size bronze statues of “the teacher” made to place in the TWI teaching centers in New Knoxville and ? (Gunnison)? to signify the connection between Timothy taking charge of the scrolls from Paul and preserving it for his generation. Likewise VPW took PFAL and preserved it for his generation - these statues are commonly referred to as the “Timothy statues”.
The intent of both of these fictional art pieces was and is to preserve the whitewashed memory of Victor Paul Wierwille who they call their “father in the Word” to all succeeding generations. To preserve an idol image as opposed to the truth.
Thanks Chockfull, from the picture in the website OldSkool posted, I can't make out his face very well except that the jerk is smiling. IMO, anyone that holds onto one of these might as well slap vp's victims across the face. It's disgusting.
If you ask me - it looks like wierwille has gone to his happy place - looking at his porn video catalog collection in one hand (hmmm symbolic?) and with a dirty old man grin on face raising his mug of Drambuie in toast to the dirty deities of depravity.
mug of Drambuie sold separately - call now - operators of all 9 demons all the time are being held in abeyance waiting on your order…or rather your submission
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OldSkool
I do want to address this Mike. You constantly come at me like I have forgotten, or have been talked out of the truth of wierwille, or that I just don't understand where you are coming from. Personall
waysider
This right here. If you're unable to define and regulate your control factors and variables, your research is worthless. The best you could hope for would be an observational analysis of your collecte
Charity
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life." There have
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OldSkool
Right on! Definately does and he likely learned this little tactic from way international leadership methods. The information control efforts in the way international is beyond belief to outsiders. So much confidentiality; I guess they hate sunshine.
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waysider
Posted April 29, 2020 by WordWolf
Every now and again, someone still claims that pfal and twi were special. Their reason for this is the claim that vpw was special. Their reason for this is the 1942 promise. vpw claimed he received a promise from God Almighty in 1942, and he used this claim to justify thinking of "his" books and classes to akin to the Bible itself.
The supposition that pfal was of significant long-term benefit hangs primarily on the alleged "1942 promise." That promise, as stated by vpw, was that God spoke audibly to vpw, and promised that God Almighty would teach vpw God's Word ;like it hadn't been known since the first century (AD) if vpw would teach it to others. vpw supposedly asked God to confirm this by a miraculous snowstorm.
Word Wolf posted this on April 29, 2020
All right, how many ways can we show this 1942 promise failed? We've done it lots of times before, this is mostly compilation.
A) The miraculous snowstorm never happened.
There was NO report of actual snow anywhere near where this allegedly happened. When it supposedly happened, he didn't even tell his own wife it happened. Come on, that would have been the first words out of any spouse's mouth that evening. ("Honey, you'll never believe what happened to me today...") He never claimed it until decades later. He couldn't keep the details of the miraculous event straight, even. When he first began making this claim, he said the sky looked BLACK with all the heavy snow. This, BTW, isn't what it looks like for even the heaviest snow. Later-probably because he learned that doesn't happen- he switched to saying the sky was WHITE with snow. I'm sure details can get lost over time, but if a miraculous event that turns the sky all one color, you'd at least remember the color.
Finally, this wasn't the only time vpw claimed a miraculous snowstorm. In fact, he did it whenever it was convenient. When he added special significance to the minister's conference where he met Stiles, vpw claimed that the entire city was snowed in completely. He was unable to get out because planes, trains and buses were all stopped due to heavy snow conditions, a blizzard. This was a rather big lie, and one that was checkable. When someone spoke to him about it, he didn't say "I was there and saw the snow and walked in it, check again", he immediately switched his story to prevent trying to contradict the weather report. He immediately began claiming the snow was an angelic apparition- angels made him see snow that wasn't there, and when he phoned transit places, angels answered the phone and lied to him. (He would rather have us think angels lied than that he lied.) In reality, not even a single FLAKE fell from the sky in that city that day, and the temperature didn't reach freezing. This wasn't the last time vpw made up a convenient snowstorm, even. A poster here once noted that vpw was supposed to visit their area. Instead, he phoned and said that he WANTED to fly there, but he was located at a bad snowstorm and he was told it was unsafe. The poster checked the weather in vpw's area at the time, and there was neither snow nor storms predicted.
So, the entire snow part was a lie. Without that, there's no 1942 promise. However, even if it was possible for there to have been a snowstorm (it's not possible), the other problems with his story would be enough to discredit it.
There WAS no 1942 promise. vpw was NEVER some great one. pfal was NEVER some great class nor great study materials. It was all built up as a con-and not the most secure con, either. It needed lots of outside help to prop it up.
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Nathan_Jr
There are varies degrees of intensity for any form of precipitation. We were on the mountain. It was complete white out. We were in a milk bottle.
Vertigo is extremely unsettling. It’s like sea sickness — it doesn’t stop until you get off the boat.
Not every snow storm is as I describe.
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Nathan_Jr
Well, after all, he was in victor’s Corps.
I can’t begin to describe how astonishingly familiar all the talk is here.
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waysider
Lies often fall apart due to discrepancies in details.
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OldSkool
thanks for looking this up waysider!
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OldSkool
And I will say that for alcoholics accurate memories can be a huge problem, as we all know Im am a recovering alcoholic. Drunkenness not only incapacitates it wrecks a person's memory where details are fuzzy. So his drinking may have been a contributing factor.
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waysider
I think it may have been Garth (may he R.I.P.) who gave account of personal involvement in the cancelled visit to his area.
I'm not certain, but that seems to be what I recall.
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waysider
Giving him the benefit of a doubt seems mighty generous on your part.
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OldSkool
In spite of being accused of being a hatefilled individual who only concentrates on victor paul wierwille's sin nature, I am as honest as possible in what I post and will readily admit error. I give him the benefit of the doubt only because I can't say for certain but have very high suspicions from my own personal experiences. BTW - the humor is not lost on me and my post is not really aimed at you waysider...were on the same page...
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Nathan_Jr
I’m remembering that vertigo experience in Crested Butte and thinking about this snowstorm motif.
Snowstorms, blizzards, are NOT symbolic of clear vision, clear perception. Snowstorms are blinding. Vertigo is confusing, disorienting, unstable.
The unintended symbolism in victor’s snowstorm motif is telling.
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Mike
You are accurately describing my time here at GSC.
But that is because Paul is not under attack here at GSC.
In Churchianity Paul is often systematically minimized.
New Age religions that like Jesus are almost always anti-Paul.
Modern secular Academia hate Paul.
You have no idea how I proportion my time elsewhere, do you!
Maybe you think I only have time for GSC?
For one thing, it is never VPW that I talk about with others, except rarely with a few grads. A decade or two I did more VPW talk with grads, but far less nowadays.
All through the 1970s I witnessed the green card to Christians outside TWI. This includes trinitarians, as I have reported here. I would go to neighboring churches and meet people and had extensive Bible conversations. They often called me a Paul idolator, or a more polite term for the same idea.
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OldSkool
Lets you know he really didnt think the implication of his lies through all the way...snow job 101.
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Charity
Hi Chockfull,
Two things: I was pretty sure vp told the snow story in pfal when he talked about taking all his books to the dump but apparently I was wrong. Also, the "Timothy statues." I'm pretty sure you're referring to the statues of vp but why have they been given that name?
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waysider
My experience has been mostly contrary to this. Emphasis seems to lean heavily on the side of examining the epistles, rather than the gospels..
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OldSkool
One of these nifty little idols?
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Charity
Thanks OldSkool. What is written on the plaque at the bottom? Is it a verse from Timothy?
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OldSkool
The Teacher
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/original-1991-dr-victor-paul-1985873592
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Nathan_Jr
OMG!! Hilarious!
"The Teacher." Holy shonta, that's funny.
Why was the idol called the Timothy statue? Asking for me and Charity.
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OldSkool
I dunno...im waiting to know as well....I mean didn't Paul make a bronze statue of Timothy back in Ephesus? I seem to remember seeing a picture in the original text....
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chockfull
There are 2 categories of idols here.
1) the statue OS posted the photo of. This is given to clergy along with a Way Corps seal when they get ordained. All TWI clergy have that bronze of VPW sitting in a prominent position in their offices so all who come in can see it and take note of the great spiritual presence of the person who has it.
2) There were 2 life size bronze statues of “the teacher” made to place in the TWI teaching centers in New Knoxville and ? (Gunnison)? to signify the connection between Timothy taking charge of the scrolls from Paul and preserving it for his generation. Likewise VPW took PFAL and preserved it for his generation - these statues are commonly referred to as the “Timothy statues”.
The intent of both of these fictional art pieces was and is to preserve the whitewashed memory of Victor Paul Wierwille who they call their “father in the Word” to all succeeding generations. To preserve an idol image as opposed to the truth.
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chockfull
I actually have my own snowstorm story. You wanna hear it?
When I was an active Corps grad we had Corps nights every Wednesday night. We had to dress up in a suit and tie and drive and hour each way to participate in a phone hookup for Corps that was mandatory attendance. In those meetings there was ranting over people that left, libel and slander raking people over the coals who had somehow fallen outside Way guidelines, and very twisted teachings from zealots perspectives.
Many nights I remember snow and even blizzard conditions. But we were Corps so missing it was out of the question. So we drove and I affixed my vision to the dotted line a couple feet in front of my car and we prayed.
We didn’t die thankfully.
End of story.
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Charity
Thanks Chockfull, from the picture in the website OldSkool posted, I can't make out his face very well except that the jerk is smiling. IMO, anyone that holds onto one of these might as well slap vp's victims across the face. It's disgusting.
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T-Bone
If you ask me - it looks like wierwille has gone to his happy place - looking at his porn video catalog collection in one hand (hmmm symbolic?) and with a dirty old man grin on face raising his mug of Drambuie in toast to the dirty deities of depravity.
mug of Drambuie sold separately - call now - operators of all 9 demons all the time are being held in abeyance waiting on your order…or rather your submission
Edited by T-BoneCall now
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