a certain Grease Spotter would attempt to obstruct or redirect a thread by either defending wierwille or PFAL…Sometimes they’d simply promote wierwille or PFAL.
Attempt? Mike often succeeds/succeeded over the last 20 years to do so.
Why defend or promote Wierwille? For all of the Pharisees behind the scenes I think it boils down to sunk cost.
If you have held a certain high position in a cult for 20 years, a self preservation urge kicks in, and even subconsciously they will fight kicking and screaming to hold on to that caste system placement which has them living to a certain standard.
For Staff the huge distinction between a minimum wage follower and the top salaries positions are how they control keeping a one way conversation and flow of information exactly like all the dictator countries do.
The fear of facing disgrace, loss of position, possible loss of a job or demotion to a lesser job drive these Pharisees and keep them from looking beyond their little hamster cage they have built for themselves. This also keeps them from disbanding the Way giving back the money and starting anything new rather than becoming a worldwide old cult wineskin and whitewash society like they have.
The system of error backed by the doctrinal error of household versus body of Christ has had them setting up inner circles of Pharisees throughout the ministry’s history.
When people have others treating them like the suggestion of a leader is tantamount to an order the ego inflates to an out of control state and the leader becomes paranoid. Et tu Brute?
Then the next stage is the excommunication edicts which have not changed since Martin Luther faced them ages ago.
Indulgences, get your indulgences. For a mere 20 pounds you can drink all you want commit adultery and be forgiven. Then you can yell and scream about conspiracy theories and devil spirits and make examples of people.
Yes the Pharisees golden parachute is the largest reason for defending or promoting Wierwille. And yes a large part of the gold is the golden pedestal on which they live their life and interact with brainwashees.
Attempt? Mike often succeeds/succeeded over the last 20 years to do so.
I guess it depends on how one might define attempt and success.
I lean toward attempt – as a noun - an act of trying to achieve something, typically one that is unsuccessful or not certain to succeed.
As far as defining success – I look at the whole thread.
There could be parts of a discussion that one has succeeded at obstructing a productive discussion or redirecting it off-topic. I’m certainly guilty of that on many threads.
Take for examplethe 2nd wave of returning to PFAL has started. On that thread I have 61 posts compared to the thread starter’s 35. It appears the intent of the thread starter was to spin a yarn of 99% of the problems with PFAL reported on Grease Spot were due to us all not getting it right the first time. I took issue with that – and for most of my 61 posts I concentrated on exposing the critical errors in PFAL and challenging the poster as to why we ever needed PFAL.
To the best of my recollection , he only responded to one of my critical posts – quibbling over my comment where I said wierwille’s theory of the inspiration of Scriptures was either the dictationtheoryor the plenary verbal inspiration theory(and he might well have thought in terms of both being valid).
the difference between the two theories is small – wierwille saying God has a purpose for everything He says, where He says it, how He says it…etc. and the order of the words is perfect seems to lean on the dictation theory– whereas the plenary verbal inspiration theoryasserts that God’s inspiration extends to ALL of Scripture – WHICH INCLUDES when the writers recorded any historical events, physical sciences and life science details. “Verbal” refers to the WORDS of Scripture “Verbal inspiration” means God’s inspiration extends to THE VERY WORDS the writers chose – but it is not the same as the dictation theory. The writers could have chosen other words, and God often allowed them the freedom to express their own personalities as they wrote – but the idea behind the plenary verbal inspiration theoryis that Holy Spirit still guided the process so that the finished product faithfully conveyed God’s message – which means God was really responsible for the use of every word and every reference to the physical world, matters of science, history, geography, worldview, etc...what I don't like about that theory is that it looks like the Creator does not know how a lot of "the stuff" He created works.
Probably a little late for this – but I do apologize for obstructing and redirectingthe 2nd wave of returning to PFAL has startedthread.
Hi, my name is T-Bone, I am a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies ...I am sorry for the times I've fallen off the wagon and really appreciate the helpful feedback of all Grease Spotters...Thanks for putting up with me.
Edited by T-Bone editor's job: obstruct and redirect typos
I began my critical analysis of PFAL – setting aside the malfeasance of wierwille’s unabashed plagiarism momentarily – I exposed five faulty assumptions.
There is so much more at issue than just wierwille stealing other people’s work. It’s actually more complex than that.
There are at least 5 faulty assumptionsthat TWIONCE had the greatest (superior to all others in the world) teacher and teachings (there’s definitely more than 5 faulty assumptions – I’m just limiting myself here for the sake of brevity).
How does one go about identifying a faulty assumption?
The sure way to identify a faulty assumption is when there is lack of evidence that supports it.
So anyway…here are 5 faulty assumptions that one might have to lean on, to justify defending or promoting PFAL:
Faulty assumption #1:
The material that wierwille copied from others was completely correct or valid. This does not refer to any particular passage of the Bible but rather to the ideas, principles, interpretations, doctrines and speculations that other authors would abstract from the Bible. (Bullinger’s teaching that there were 4 crucified with Jesus Christ and his ultra-dispensationalism come to mind). What I’ve noticed is that defenders/promoters of PFAL lack good cognitive skills. Instead, they rely on the content of PFAL to be a measuring rod when assessing the work of others.
~ ~ ~ ~
Faulty assumption #2:
wierwille was competent...or qualified to understand, analyze, fine tune, correct, clarify, or improve the material of others. This has been proven false many times over – please refer to
wierwille had help from God to synthesize and accurize the aggregate formed from the teachings of others. This has also been analyzed and proven false – please refer to:
TWI became a HARMFUL cult after deviating from the teachings of wierwille; a cult is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular person or object; a cult is considered HARMFUL ...DAMAGING...DETRIMENTAL ...ABUSIVE to others when what is venerated is a dishonest, delusional, narcissistic megalomaniac like wierwille. Please refer to the following links:
TWI was a genuine Christian ministry...a biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry and that through loss of wierwille’s leadership, negligence , erroneous judgments, bad decisions or whatever gave over control, possession or responsibility of TWI to the devil...to the contrary , there are actually much more plausible options than shifting blame to the devil - like basing a ministry on some lying, thieving, cheating, money grubbing sexual predator who lived like the devil - meaning wierwille with great speed, effort and intensity lived an amoral life.
~ ~ ~ ~
If you’re new to Grease Spot Café (then first off, welcome) or if this post reactivated some red flags of doubt and questions you’ve had about wierwille and his classes then you might want to check out
I’ve heard some folks make an appeal to Philippians 1 where Paul says but what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached.
A PFAL-“preacher”might argue that even if what I said about the 5 faulty assumptions is true, at least Christ is preached – regardless of his using plagiarized material, twisting Scripture and his overall incompetency and duplicity.
However, the PFAL-“preacher” is missing the forest for the trees. They fail to understand the larger problem because they are considering only a few parts of it. The larger problem is that Christ is not being preached...instead PFAL is promoted as "The Word"
Let’s take a look at Philippians 1:
12 Now I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that what has happened to me has actually served to advance the gospel. 13 As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. 14 And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident in the Lord and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Paul was saying that even though some were causing trouble for him, they are preaching Christ and advancing his cause. Maybe they’re motives were not right – but the content of their preaching was right – it was about Christ.
A strong argument can be made – and wierwille even admitted to this in PFAL – that “the Word” – i.e., wierwille’s interpretation of the Bible takes the place of the absent Christ. If you haven’t read through The absent Christthread, then you might want to do so to catch up to what’s really at stake here. In case you didn’t realize it – Jesus Christ is mentioned only at critical points in the PFAL class as more or less a bait-and-switch ruse. In the early sessions of PFAL Jesus Christ is presented as the key to a more materialistic life – even having more abundance…prosperity than unbelievers.
At another critical point he uses Jesus Christ’s teaching on the 2 great commandments to promotesituational ethics. He says along these lines as long as you love God and neighbor you can do as you full well please. I’ve never read THAT inMatthew 22 – have you?
This brings to mind a related issue that can happen in any Christian group, though I’ve seen it in TWI too :
The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So, when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.John 10:12
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers says of this verse concerning “the hired hand”:
The Greek word occurs again in the New Testament only in the next verse and in Mark 1:20. It implies a lower position than the household servant, and is more nearly what we should call the tramp-labourer. The thought follows from that of the good shepherd who in the time of danger will give his own life for the sheep. The hireling has no interest in the sheep, and cares for them only as far as to secure his own hire.Bible Hub: John 10:12 commentary
Ever get to know some leaders and over time you can tell it’s just a job for them. And I bring this up for another reason too. In the John 10:12 scenario, it’s like wierwille had a dual-role – of being the hired hand (as president and founder of TWIit was a way for him to make money) and likethe strange case of “doctor” Jekyll and Mister Hydewierwille unleashed the other person inside – the sexual predator – when the circumstances were right. You can read one person’s account inLosing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape.
If you have held a certain high position in a cult for 20 years, a self preservation urge kicks in, and even subconsciously they will fight kicking and screaming to hold on to that caste system placement which has them living to a certain standard.
Consider Saul/Paul. We understand him to be a really high-up Pharisee. Educated at the best places, absolutely steeped in tradition, with the greatest respect due to him due to his position. For way more than 20 years, he sat in judgment on others. He ordered the deaths (not just M&A'ing) of Christians. Hard to imagine even the start of his intellectual journey to the polar opposite in his thinking. He took several years out so as to evaluate all he knew.
Likely that involved much study of scriptures: as Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39) - though the gospel of John may not then have been written, it's likely it had become oral tradition - so, search the scriptures to understand both the prophesies for Jesus's coming, and "the heart behind them." But what scriptures would Jesus have meant people to study? The OT scrolls!
Likely also there were extensive discussions with people already involved with the new way of thinking, examining, evaluating and perhaps picking holes in that thinking (that was the tradition of teaching, and what Saul would have done at the feet of Gamaliel); trying out what people had told him to see if it "worked" both in practicalities of life, and in conjunction with the whole of what he knew. Later, perhaps, he made discreet attempts to contact some of his former colleagues on the Sanhedrin to run ideas by them and, who knows, perhaps even convert them to the new thinking (no record this worked).
A lot of introspection for Saul too: where and how did he get it so wrong? What had he been badly taught? What foundational principles (or to use Mike's own language, what "postulates") were wrong? Saul knew he was absolutely and unquestionably "right" - and now he was finding he was dead wrong. A wise man wants to know where things went awry so as to avoid falling into the same hole again later.
Many of us here have started on that journey or examination and re-evaluation; we're at different places in that journey. Some have even turned their backs on Christianity, on organised religion, on matters spiritual.
Mike in particular is a huge proponent of PFAL and associated written material. Absolutely steeped in PFAL materials and traditions. I have no doubt that he is sincere in what he says and believes. Unfortunately for him, his sincerity is badly misplaced. And deeply regrettably, he does not search the OT scriptures to see what testifies of Jesus; he searches material collated millennia later, which purports to testify of Jesus, but rarely does; rarely references any OT material in this respect.
How good would it be if Mike could have a "Damascus moment" that caused him to re-evaluate all he knows of PFAL! He could become such a skilled debunker that he would put T-Bone and WordWolf in the rear view mirror.
Instead of hanging on to "postulates" that he cherishes, he could examine those to see if, where, they are awry. Stop building on sand, and build on a rock.
Instead of "teaching" people here, he could reach out to all those PFAL grads whom he purports to know, and really show them the light.
He could reach out to all those Pharisees still in TWI whom he purports to be in touch with, and show them what the scriptures really say.
He could promote the Lord Jesus Christ and his accomplishments to the world and truly become the Ambassador for Christ that he is supposed to be.
Consider Saul/Paul. We understand him to be a really high-up Pharisee. Educated at the best places, absolutely steeped in tradition, with the greatest respect due to him due to his position. For way more than 20 years, he sat in judgment on others. He ordered the deaths (not just M&A'ing) of Christians. Hard to imagine even the start of his intellectual journey to the polar opposite in his thinking. He took several years out so as to evaluate all he knew.
Likely that involved much study of scriptures: as Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39) - though the gospel of John may not then have been written, it's likely it had become oral tradition - so, search the scriptures to understand both the prophesies for Jesus's coming, and "the heart behind them." But what scriptures would Jesus have meant people to study? The OT scrolls!
Likely also there were extensive discussions with people already involved with the new way of thinking, examining, evaluating and perhaps picking holes in that thinking (that was the tradition of teaching, and what Saul would have done at the feet of Gamaliel); trying out what people had told him to see if it "worked" both in practicalities of life, and in conjunction with the whole of what he knew. Later, perhaps, he made discreet attempts to contact some of his former colleagues on the Sanhedrin to run ideas by them and, who knows, perhaps even convert them to the new thinking (no record this worked).
A lot of introspection for Saul too: where and how did he get it so wrong? What had he been badly taught? What foundational principles (or to use Mike's own language, what "postulates") were wrong? Saul knew he was absolutely and unquestionably "right" - and now he was finding he was dead wrong. A wise man wants to know where things went awry so as to avoid falling into the same hole again later.
Many of us here have started on that journey or examination and re-evaluation; we're at different places in that journey. Some have even turned their backs on Christianity, on organised religion, on matters spiritual.
Mike in particular is a huge proponent of PFAL and associated written material. Absolutely steeped in PFAL materials and traditions. I have no doubt that he is sincere in what he says and believes. Unfortunately for him, his sincerity is badly misplaced. And deeply regrettably, he does not search the OT scriptures to see what testifies of Jesus; he searches material collated millennia later, which purports to testify of Jesus, but rarely does; rarely references any OT material in this respect.
How good would it be if Mike could have a "Damascus moment" that caused him to re-evaluate all he knows of PFAL! He could become such a skilled debunker that he would put T-Bone and WordWolf in the rear view mirror.
Instead of hanging on to "postulates" that he cherishes, he could examine those to see if, where, they are awry. Stop building on sand, and build on a rock.
Instead of "teaching" people here, he could reach out to all those PFAL grads whom he purports to know, and really show them the light.
He could reach out to all those Pharisees still in TWI whom he purports to be in touch with, and show them what the scriptures really say.
He could promote the Lord Jesus Christ and his accomplishments to the world and truly become the Ambassador for Christ that he is supposed to be.
Wow...your post is absolutely heartfelt and powerful!! Thanks!
Waysider’s post on another thread- here- very much relates to this thread as well - I thought I’d repost it here:
Waysider Friday October 28th, 2022, approximately 7 AM:
At the most fundamental level, Wierwille sought to establish a loyal base of followers who would willingly supply financial support with consistent frequency. It was no mistake that "Christians Should Be Prosperous" was one of the first reading requirements. The foundational class on Power For Abundant Living (PFAL) was only the bait that lured people into the organization, with promises of newly found freedom and deliverance. The Intermediate and Advanced Classes, along with other classes, such as Dealing With The Adversary and Renewed Mind, were what set the hook and reeled us in.
There was always an unofficial, undercurrent of teaching that flowed freely through the organization. Looking back, I believe it may have been done this way to distance the official organization from culpability. One of the concepts that seemed to gain a foothold quickly was the idea that, once you had heard "the truth", the devil would put a target on your back to keep you from spreading "the word". Bad things could happen to you if you ever left the hedge of protection that fellowshipping with likeminded believers provided. You could never go back to your old way of life. There were plenty of anecdotes being spread to fortify this thinking. One such example came straight from VPW when he brutally chastised the Way Corp, and one individual in particular, for the death of a Way Corp member who died in a car crash when he disobeyed the Man of God and left the HQ grounds, in violation of a directive not to do so. Supposedly, the believer's death was the result of defying revelation and walking out of fellowship... Well, you have to be En Garde! at all times, now, don't you?
In the course of only a few short weeks or months, a new believer went from a feeling of exhilaration and liberation to a feeling of paranoia, always having to mentally sneak a peek over the shoulder to make sure the devil was still at bay. You could never contemplate leaving. You were trapped. When the subsequent classes failed to provide answers of how to deal with this, a feeling of hopelessness eventually replaced the original excitement.
Being a promoter of PFAL is like being a drug dealer who gifts someone their first hit of heroin. The user goes from a euphoric rush to abject desolation. Staying addicted in hope of avoiding the inevitable is a painful act of futility.
The further into twi you got, the more powerful "the adversary" became, and the less-powerful God Almighty's protection became. A single thought and "the adversary" could get you, but for God to protect you, you needed to tithe, and do increasingly-longer lists of things, and skipping any one of them would negate His protection. So, the more you gave to twi to get the same coverage against :"the adversary". Consider it "adversary insurance", or consider it "protection money" if you wish.
Imagine if TWI was an insurance company. They would need a clever advertising slogan, something like, "Come on home. We don't suck quite as much as we used to". Or maybe a crazy mascot like Tic (VPW's dog) dressed up in a Halloween-style devil costume, complete with a doggy sized pitchfork. I think they're already in good shape for a jingle. They could use that "Renewed Mind Is The Key" mess.
Imagine if TWI was an insurance company. They would need a clever advertising slogan, something like, "Come on home. We don't suck quite as much as we used to". Or maybe a crazy mascot like Tic (VPW's dog) dressed up in a Halloween-style devil costume, complete with a doggy sized pitchfork. I think they're already in good shape for a jingle. They could use that "Renewed Mind Is The Key" mess.
Say…you’ve got something there…I thought of another slogan for their insurance company
It’s like going broke – only better
Someday the windows of heaven will rain on your parade if it hasn’t already
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Also, mentioning protection money in your post - I’m reminded of the protection racket run by gangsters
Harry broke into a sweat as his Twig coordinator - Gimme DaLute - pointed a loaded cornucopia at him while going through Harry’s wallet
The further into twi you got, the more powerful "the adversary" became, and the less-powerful God Almighty's protection became. A single thought and "the adversary" could get you, but for God to protect you, you needed to tithe, and do increasingly-longer lists of things, and skipping any one of them would negate His protection. So, the more you gave to twi to get the same coverage against :"the adversary". Consider it "adversary insurance", or consider it "protection money" if you wish.
Very true. Then to boot, you have all those BS devil spirit categories from the advanced class that they use to devour one another. Instead of casting out the spirits, they ostracize and cast out people because they supposedly have spirits. What could go wrong there?
Very true. Then to boot, you have all those BS devil spirit categories from the advanced class that they use to devour one another. Instead of casting out the spirits, they ostracize and cast out people because they supposedly have spirits. What could go wrong there?
Then certain vagabond way corps, exorcists, took upon themselves to mark and avoid them which had ordered online from The Evil Spirits Catalog: Fog Years Edition, saying “we adjure you by the name of bossy-pants wierwille whom The Brow preacheth.” *
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Rocky
Attempt? Mike often succeeds/succeeded over the last 20 years to do so.
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chockfull
Why defend or promote Wierwille? For all of the Pharisees behind the scenes I think it boils down to sunk cost.
If you have held a certain high position in a cult for 20 years, a self preservation urge kicks in, and even subconsciously they will fight kicking and screaming to hold on to that caste system placement which has them living to a certain standard.
For Staff the huge distinction between a minimum wage follower and the top salaries positions are how they control keeping a one way conversation and flow of information exactly like all the dictator countries do.
The fear of facing disgrace, loss of position, possible loss of a job or demotion to a lesser job drive these Pharisees and keep them from looking beyond their little hamster cage they have built for themselves. This also keeps them from disbanding the Way giving back the money and starting anything new rather than becoming a worldwide old cult wineskin and whitewash society like they have.
The system of error backed by the doctrinal error of household versus body of Christ has had them setting up inner circles of Pharisees throughout the ministry’s history.
When people have others treating them like the suggestion of a leader is tantamount to an order the ego inflates to an out of control state and the leader becomes paranoid. Et tu Brute?
Then the next stage is the excommunication edicts which have not changed since Martin Luther faced them ages ago.
Indulgences, get your indulgences. For a mere 20 pounds you can drink all you want commit adultery and be forgiven. Then you can yell and scream about conspiracy theories and devil spirits and make examples of people.
Yes the Pharisees golden parachute is the largest reason for defending or promoting Wierwille. And yes a large part of the gold is the golden pedestal on which they live their life and interact with brainwashees.
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T-Bone
I guess it depends on how one might define attempt and success.
I lean toward attempt – as a noun - an act of trying to achieve something, typically one that is unsuccessful or not certain to succeed.
As far as defining success – I look at the whole thread.
There could be parts of a discussion that one has succeeded at obstructing a productive discussion or redirecting it off-topic. I’m certainly guilty of that on many threads.
Take for example the 2nd wave of returning to PFAL has started . On that thread I have 61 posts compared to the thread starter’s 35. It appears the intent of the thread starter was to spin a yarn of 99% of the problems with PFAL reported on Grease Spot were due to us all not getting it right the first time. I took issue with that – and for most of my 61 posts I concentrated on exposing the critical errors in PFAL and challenging the poster as to why we ever needed PFAL.
To the best of my recollection , he only responded to one of my critical posts – quibbling over my comment where I said wierwille’s theory of the inspiration of Scriptures was either the dictation theory or the plenary verbal inspiration theory (and he might well have thought in terms of both being valid).
the difference between the two theories is small – wierwille saying God has a purpose for everything He says, where He says it, how He says it…etc. and the order of the words is perfect seems to lean on the dictation theory – whereas the plenary verbal inspiration theory asserts that God’s inspiration extends to ALL of Scripture – WHICH INCLUDES when the writers recorded any historical events, physical sciences and life science details. “Verbal” refers to the WORDS of Scripture “Verbal inspiration” means God’s inspiration extends to THE VERY WORDS the writers chose – but it is not the same as the dictation theory. The writers could have chosen other words, and God often allowed them the freedom to express their own personalities as they wrote – but the idea behind the plenary verbal inspiration theory is that Holy Spirit still guided the process so that the finished product faithfully conveyed God’s message – which means God was really responsible for the use of every word and every reference to the physical world, matters of science, history, geography, worldview, etc...what I don't like about that theory is that it looks like the Creator does not know how a lot of "the stuff" He created works.
Probably a little late for this – but I do apologize for obstructing and redirecting the 2nd wave of returning to PFAL has started thread.
Hi, my name is T-Bone, I am a recovering a$$-hole with smart-a$$ tendencies ...I am sorry for the times I've fallen off the wagon and really appreciate the helpful feedback of all Grease Spotters...Thanks for putting up with me.
Edited by T-Boneeditor's job: obstruct and redirect typos
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waysider
This right here.
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Rocky
Okay then. Makes sense.
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Rocky
40 or 50 years of one's life in many cases.
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T-Bone
and that's truly sad
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T-Bone
As promised - why defend or promote PFAL?
Or
Part 1: what is so great about PFAL?
In response to that question, I will honestly say I cannot think of a valid reason to defend or promote PFAL.
In my second post, I made reference to the thread The 2nd Wave of returning to PFAL has started. on page 4, in my June 6, 2021st post here
I began my critical analysis of PFAL – setting aside the malfeasance of wierwille’s unabashed plagiarism momentarily – I exposed five faulty assumptions.
There is so much more at issue than just wierwille stealing other people’s work. It’s actually more complex than that.
There are at least 5 faulty assumptions that TWI ONCE had the greatest (superior to all others in the world) teacher and teachings (there’s definitely more than 5 faulty assumptions – I’m just limiting myself here for the sake of brevity ).
How does one go about identifying a faulty assumption?
The sure way to identify a faulty assumption is when there is lack of evidence that supports it.
So anyway…here are 5 faulty assumptions that one might have to lean on, to justify defending or promoting PFAL:
Faulty assumption #1:
The material that wierwille copied from others was completely correct or valid. This does not refer to any particular passage of the Bible but rather to the ideas, principles, interpretations, doctrines and speculations that other authors would abstract from the Bible. (Bullinger’s teaching that there were 4 crucified with Jesus Christ and his ultra-dispensationalism come to mind). What I’ve noticed is that defenders/promoters of PFAL lack good cognitive skills. Instead, they rely on the content of PFAL to be a measuring rod when assessing the work of others.
~ ~ ~ ~
Faulty assumption #2:
wierwille was competent...or qualified to understand, analyze, fine tune, correct, clarify, or improve the material of others. This has been proven false many times over – please refer to
Actual errors in PFAL
More Blatant errors in PFAL,
PFAL errors – even deeper do-do
and of course my other posts following the page 4 post of June 6, 2021st 2nd wave of returning to PFAL
~ ~ ~ ~
Faulty assumption #3:
wierwille had help from God to synthesize and accurize the aggregate formed from the teachings of others. This has also been analyzed and proven false – please refer to:
A vpw historical timeline
Concerning the failure of the 1942 promise
~ ~ ~ ~
Faulty assumption #4:
TWI became a HARMFUL cult after deviating from the teachings of wierwille; a cult is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular person or object; a cult is considered HARMFUL ...DAMAGING...DETRIMENTAL ...ABUSIVE to others when what is venerated is a dishonest, delusional, narcissistic megalomaniac like wierwille. Please refer to the following links:
the Advanced Class thread started June 23, 2021
TWI servitude
vp was essential to a follower’s belief system
Psychology Today: Dangerous Cult Leaders - Clues to what makes for a pathological cult leader
~ ~ ~ ~
Faulty assumption #5:
TWI was a genuine Christian ministry...a biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry and that through loss of wierwille’s leadership, negligence , erroneous judgments, bad decisions or whatever gave over control, possession or responsibility of TWI to the devil...to the contrary , there are actually much more plausible options than shifting blame to the devil - like basing a ministry on some lying, thieving, cheating, money grubbing sexual predator who lived like the devil - meaning wierwille with great speed, effort and intensity lived an amoral life.
~ ~ ~ ~
If you’re new to Grease Spot Café (then first off, welcome
) or if this post reactivated some red flags of doubt and questions you’ve had about wierwille and his classes then you might want to check out
Why PFAL sucks
Why the Intermediate and Advanced Classes suck
well...That’s all for now...
stay tuned for Part 2: Is preaching PFAL preaching Christ?
Edited by T-Bonethere were 5 - count 'em - 5 really bad typos in this post
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T-Bone
Part 2: Is preaching PFAL preaching Christ?
I’ve heard some folks make an appeal to Philippians 1 where Paul says but what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached.
A PFAL-“preacher” might argue that even if what I said about the 5 faulty assumptions is true, at least Christ is preached – regardless of his using plagiarized material, twisting Scripture and his overall incompetency and duplicity.
However, the PFAL-“preacher” is missing the forest for the trees. They fail to understand the larger problem because they are considering only a few parts of it. The larger problem is that Christ is not being preached...instead PFAL is promoted as "The Word"
Let’s take a look at Philippians 1:
12 Now I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that what has happened to me has actually served to advance the gospel. 13 As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. 14 And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident in the Lord and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Philippians 1: 12-18
Paul was saying that even though some were causing trouble for him, they are preaching Christ and advancing his cause. Maybe they’re motives were not right – but the content of their preaching was right – it was about Christ.
A strong argument can be made – and wierwille even admitted to this in PFAL – that “the Word” – i.e., wierwille’s interpretation of the Bible takes the place of the absent Christ. If you haven’t read through The absent Christ thread, then you might want to do so to catch up to what’s really at stake here. In case you didn’t realize it – Jesus Christ is mentioned only at critical points in the PFAL class as more or less a bait-and-switch ruse. In the early sessions of PFAL Jesus Christ is presented as the key to a more materialistic life – even having more abundance…prosperity than unbelievers.
At another critical point he uses Jesus Christ’s teaching on the 2 great commandments to promote situational ethics . He says along these lines as long as you love God and neighbor you can do as you full well please. I’ve never read THAT in Matthew 22 – have you?
This brings to mind a related issue that can happen in any Christian group, though I’ve seen it in TWI too :
The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So, when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. John 10:12
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers says of this verse concerning “the hired hand”:
The Greek word occurs again in the New Testament only in the next verse and in Mark 1:20. It implies a lower position than the household servant, and is more nearly what we should call the tramp-labourer. The thought follows from that of the good shepherd who in the time of danger will give his own life for the sheep. The hireling has no interest in the sheep, and cares for them only as far as to secure his own hire. Bible Hub: John 10:12 commentary
Ever get to know some leaders and over time you can tell it’s just a job for them. And I bring this up for another reason too. In the John 10:12 scenario, it’s like wierwille had a dual-role – of being the hired hand (as president and founder of TWI it was a way for him to make money) and like the strange case of “doctor” Jekyll and Mister Hyde wierwille unleashed the other person inside – the sexual predator – when the circumstances were right. You can read one person’s account in Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape .
So, is preaching PFAL preaching Christ?
No. Preaching PFAL is preaching wierwille.
Edited by T-BoneTypos
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Twinky
Consider Saul/Paul. We understand him to be a really high-up Pharisee. Educated at the best places, absolutely steeped in tradition, with the greatest respect due to him due to his position. For way more than 20 years, he sat in judgment on others. He ordered the deaths (not just M&A'ing) of Christians. Hard to imagine even the start of his intellectual journey to the polar opposite in his thinking. He took several years out so as to evaluate all he knew.
Likely that involved much study of scriptures: as Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39) - though the gospel of John may not then have been written, it's likely it had become oral tradition - so, search the scriptures to understand both the prophesies for Jesus's coming, and "the heart behind them." But what scriptures would Jesus have meant people to study? The OT scrolls!
Likely also there were extensive discussions with people already involved with the new way of thinking, examining, evaluating and perhaps picking holes in that thinking (that was the tradition of teaching, and what Saul would have done at the feet of Gamaliel); trying out what people had told him to see if it "worked" both in practicalities of life, and in conjunction with the whole of what he knew. Later, perhaps, he made discreet attempts to contact some of his former colleagues on the Sanhedrin to run ideas by them and, who knows, perhaps even convert them to the new thinking (no record this worked).
A lot of introspection for Saul too: where and how did he get it so wrong? What had he been badly taught? What foundational principles (or to use Mike's own language, what "postulates") were wrong? Saul knew he was absolutely and unquestionably "right" - and now he was finding he was dead wrong. A wise man wants to know where things went awry so as to avoid falling into the same hole again later.
Many of us here have started on that journey or examination and re-evaluation; we're at different places in that journey. Some have even turned their backs on Christianity, on organised religion, on matters spiritual.
Mike in particular is a huge proponent of PFAL and associated written material. Absolutely steeped in PFAL materials and traditions. I have no doubt that he is sincere in what he says and believes. Unfortunately for him, his sincerity is badly misplaced. And deeply regrettably, he does not search the OT scriptures to see what testifies of Jesus; he searches material collated millennia later, which purports to testify of Jesus, but rarely does; rarely references any OT material in this respect.
How good would it be if Mike could have a "Damascus moment" that caused him to re-evaluate all he knows of PFAL! He could become such a skilled debunker that he would put T-Bone and WordWolf in the rear view mirror.
Edited by TwinkyInstead of hanging on to "postulates" that he cherishes, he could examine those to see if, where, they are awry. Stop building on sand, and build on a rock.
Instead of "teaching" people here, he could reach out to all those PFAL grads whom he purports to know, and really show them the light.
He could reach out to all those Pharisees still in TWI whom he purports to be in touch with, and show them what the scriptures really say.
He could promote the Lord Jesus Christ and his accomplishments to the world and truly become the Ambassador for Christ that he is supposed to be.
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Rocky
AKA, a significant emotional event. That would be wonderful.
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OldSkool
Wow...your post is absolutely heartfelt and powerful!! Thanks!
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T-Bone
Waysider’s post on another thread - here - very much relates to this thread as well - I thought I’d repost it here:
Waysider Friday October 28th, 2022, approximately 7 AM:
At the most fundamental level, Wierwille sought to establish a loyal base of followers who would willingly supply financial support with consistent frequency. It was no mistake that "Christians Should Be Prosperous" was one of the first reading requirements. The foundational class on Power For Abundant Living (PFAL) was only the bait that lured people into the organization, with promises of newly found freedom and deliverance. The Intermediate and Advanced Classes, along with other classes, such as Dealing With The Adversary and Renewed Mind, were what set the hook and reeled us in.
There was always an unofficial, undercurrent of teaching that flowed freely through the organization. Looking back, I believe it may have been done this way to distance the official organization from culpability. One of the concepts that seemed to gain a foothold quickly was the idea that, once you had heard "the truth", the devil would put a target on your back to keep you from spreading "the word". Bad things could happen to you if you ever left the hedge of protection that fellowshipping with likeminded believers provided. You could never go back to your old way of life. There were plenty of anecdotes being spread to fortify this thinking. One such example came straight from VPW when he brutally chastised the Way Corp, and one individual in particular, for the death of a Way Corp member who died in a car crash when he disobeyed the Man of God and left the HQ grounds, in violation of a directive not to do so. Supposedly, the believer's death was the result of defying revelation and walking out of fellowship... Well, you have to be En Garde! at all times, now, don't you?
In the course of only a few short weeks or months, a new believer went from a feeling of exhilaration and liberation to a feeling of paranoia, always having to mentally sneak a peek over the shoulder to make sure the devil was still at bay. You could never contemplate leaving. You were trapped. When the subsequent classes failed to provide answers of how to deal with this, a feeling of hopelessness eventually replaced the original excitement.
Being a promoter of PFAL is like being a drug dealer who gifts someone their first hit of heroin. The user goes from a euphoric rush to abject desolation. Staying addicted in hope of avoiding the inevitable is a painful act of futility.
Edited 3 hours ago by waysider
= = == =
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WordWolf
The further into twi you got, the more powerful "the adversary" became, and the less-powerful God Almighty's protection became. A single thought and "the adversary" could get you, but for God to protect you, you needed to tithe, and do increasingly-longer lists of things, and skipping any one of them would negate His protection. So, the more you gave to twi to get the same coverage against :"the adversary". Consider it "adversary insurance", or consider it "protection money" if you wish.
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waysider
Imagine if TWI was an insurance company. They would need a clever advertising slogan, something like, "Come on home. We don't suck quite as much as we used to". Or maybe a crazy mascot like Tic (VPW's dog) dressed up in a Halloween-style devil costume, complete with a doggy sized pitchfork. I think they're already in good shape for a jingle. They could use that "Renewed Mind Is The Key" mess.
Edited by waysidermissed a word
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T-Bone
Say…you’ve got something there…I thought of another slogan for their insurance company
It’s like going broke – only better
Someday the windows of heaven will rain on your parade if it hasn’t already
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Also, mentioning protection money in your post - I’m reminded of the protection racket run by gangsters
Harry broke into a sweat as his Twig coordinator - Gimme DaLute - pointed a loaded cornucopia at him while going through Harry’s wallet
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OldSkool
Very true. Then to boot, you have all those BS devil spirit categories from the advanced class that they use to devour one another. Instead of casting out the spirits, they ostracize and cast out people because they supposedly have spirits. What could go wrong there?
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T-Bone
Then certain vagabond way corps, exorcists, took upon themselves to mark and avoid them which had ordered online from The Evil Spirits Catalog: Fog Years Edition, saying “we adjure you by the name of bossy-pants wierwille whom The Brow preacheth.” *
* Acts 19:13 Alternate Expanded Translation That Was Literally Abused Beyond Belief (AETTWLABB)
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Twinky
Good post, T-Bone.
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Rocky
You dirty rat!
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T-Bone
funny...so if I understand him correctly - he never said "mmmmmm you dirty rat" he said "come on out you dirty yellow-bellied rat"
I've been quoting him wrong all these years
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Rocky
I'm confident it doesn't matter.
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T-Bone
sometimes it may be best to defend someone who has the potential to really hurt you
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