“…it would be a violation of God’s sovereignty to suppose his creative power was limited by available means or in any way hostage to principles external to it.”Hugh J. McCann, The God Beyond Time, essay inPhilosophy of Religion An Anthology 7th Edition .
What comes to mind is wierwille’s marketing of the law of believing, also known as magical thinking and omnipotence of thought. wierwille was always critical of psychology and would belittle the work of Freud by saying things like “psychiatry was born in a séance”. However, in the academic world it’s been said of Sigmund Freud :
Freud’s psychoanalysis can contribute a great deal to the elucidation of religious phenomena…The omnipotence of thoughts, a mechanism particularly favored by obsessive-compulsives, was recruited inTotem and Taboo(1913) to explain animismand religion. The omnipotence of thoughts is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and that wishing can effect, independently of any action, changes in one’s environment. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage people ascribe omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transfer it to a deity and yet retain the idea that they can influence that deity through prayer and ritual according to their wishes.
to explain animismand religion. The omnipotence of thoughts is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and that wishing can effect, independently of any action, changes in one’s environment. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage people ascribe omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transfer it to a deity and yet retain the idea that they can influence that deity through prayer and ritual according to their wishes.
WOW!
Pretty sure Wierwille and Martindale taught (advanced class on PFLAP probably) animism. Sounds like ol' Vic was projecting.
22. in PFAL wierwille asserts the Bible interprets itself. And he is not consistent when he does use the interpretive keys that he plagiarized from Bullinger (as if Bullinger got it all right). He ignores context when it suites his twisted interpretation.
A. Disparages commentaries to elevatehisexplanations of Scripture
B. Uses proof texting to ignore immediate context, remote context, theological reasoning consistent with the whole Bible on a given subject.
C. wierwille assumes what he teaches is "The Word" and has the same authority as the Bible
A behind-the-scenes look at how Scripture interprets itself
125. espouses a misleading concept of rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Part 1taking another look at “rightly dividing”
Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail....Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reason # 125 of why PFAL sucks has a lot to do with how detrimental bad instructions can be to young and naive minds. If you’re reading this thread, I assume you’re a grad and very familiar with the term “rightly dividing”. Rather than deconstructing chapter 10, The Rightly-divided Word in the orangePFAL book, which is nothing more than a commercial for wierwille to sell his own plagiarized and emulsified version of Bullinger’s How to Enjoy the Bible- I intend to leave a few bread crumbs for those who are very disappointed with wierwille’s teachings.
~ ~ ~ ~
One of the great things about Grease Spot Cafe is all the eye-opening anecdotes, personal experiences, interesting books, and hyperlinks that Grease Spotters share here. It's helpful in so many ways and it often whets folks' appetite to explore these things for themselves.
Escaping the harmful and controlling mind gamesof The Way International should be driven by something from within you.
And probably the first of hurdles to overcome is to work on self-respect – a healthy pride and confidence in oneself – which has been deliberately whittled down by The Way International through various means with the end goal of you trusting what the ministry says over anything else – even your own cognitive skills and intuition…
...In the wake of the ministry-wide meltdown after the Patriarch Paper, all kinds of red flags, questions, and doubts popped up in my head! That propelled me to investigate and reevaluate just about everything I learned from the ministry…
It's probably the most difficult part of the journey – the beginning.
Because YOU have to THINK – not just absorb what someone at Grease Spot Café said.
YOU have to mull it over – examine the matter, analyze it and meditate on the possible actions as well as their outcomes – and then at some point YOU will have to CHOOSE what action to take – and of course deciding NOT to think about this stuff anymore but remain comfortable in your little TWI-world is YOUR CHOICEalso.
In the 1999 movie The Matrix the main character Neo is offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill by rebel leader Morpheus. There’s only two options and Morpheus explains the stark difference between the effects of each pill. The red pill will enable Neo to learn a potentially unsettling life-changing truth. The blue pill will permit Neo to remain in contented ignorance. The red pill represents an uncertain future…it would free Neo from an enslaving dreamlike control system and allow him to escape into the real world…Grease Spot Cafe is like the red pill
~ ~ ~ ~
PFAL is such a poor teaching model because it doesn’t encourage students to exercise their cognitive skills – instead “the teacher” (wierwille) through double-talk, Scripture twisting, and logical fallacies leads students down the path of trusting him and following his example. PFAL is a hyped up confidence trick .
In the PFAL book, page 119, wierwille zeros-in on the term “rightly dividing” of II Timothy 2:15, and says it’s the Greek word orthotomounta and states “It’s intricate nuance of meaning is that there is only one way to rightly cut The Word; all other ways are wrong cuttings”. First off, I wouldn’t trust wierwille to define words in the original biblical languages used in the Bible. The man lied about his academic accomplishments. He insisted everyone should refer to him as “Doctor Wierwille” a title he got from a degree mill, Pikes Peak Bible Seminary an unaccredited correspondence school in Manitou Springs, Colorado. The seminary was regarded as a diploma mill by the United States Office of Education. I find that contradictory and pretentious of a man who thumbed his nose at academia and yet wanted his followers to be impressed by pretending to have greater importance, qualifications, and achievements than he actually possessed.
~ ~ ~ ~
Let’s look at another translation of II Timothy 2:15 along with a few legitimate knowledgeable sources to get a better understanding of the term “rightly dividing”.
Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth…II Timothy 2:15 Amplified
10For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” 13 This saying is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good… Titus 1: 10 - 16 NIV
On page 2188 of NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible it says considering the fact that the letters to Timothy and Titus are addressing minister or leadership in the church we see that “truth” is a prominent concern in the pastoral epistles. More often Paul uses “truth” to refer to refer to the message about Christ that saves (1 Tim. 2:4; 3:9,15; 4:3,6; 2 Tim. 2:15,25) and leads to godliness ( Titus 1:1).
Beginning on page 3 of the PFAL book wierwille explains his intentions. He says one verse changed his life:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly… John 10:10 KJV
wierwille goes on to say he looked at the lack of material abundance in the communities and other ministers where he served and compared it to the secular world of non-Christians and their obvious substantial wealth. wierwille reinterpreted the message of Christ as savior, that further leads to a life of godliness. He made it into a gospel of prosperity.
125. espouses a misleading concept of rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Part 2: it’s not amoral linguistics
Exploring further the Greek word orthotomounta, on pages 262 and 263 of New Testament Commentary:Exposition of Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews authorsWilliam Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker affirm the same points as NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible regarding “rightly handling the word of truth” of II Timothy 2:15, this word of truth is the testimony concerning our Lord II Timothy 1:8 . Orthotomounta is a composite verb – the primary meaning of the main element (the base) of the composite verb is “to cut” – with a prefix “straight” - however the meaning-emphasis may shift, until in the semantic process the literal sense of the base is lost. Thus straight-cutting begins to mean straight-handling or handling aright, faithfully, accurately. It is not so strange that, by an easy shift from the physical to the moral sphere, cutting a straight road or path over the course of time to the exclusively moral use of the term - The righteousness of the blameless makes their paths straightProverbs 11:5 NIV . The person who handles the word of truth properly does not change, pervert, mutilate or distort it.
On page 1170 of Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Abridged in One Volume, Geoffrey Bromiley says of orthotomounta occurs in the Greek Bible only at Proverbs 3:6, Proverbs 11:5 where it means make paths straight, to build a road, to lay down a way, and of course in II Timothy 2:15 . Bromiley says the real meaning seems to be that Timothy should speak the word of truth in his conduct – he will present the word legitimately – confirming it in his life.
The motifs of a journey, a path and of walking are quite common in the Bible and usually refer to the big picture of life – how we handle the mundane, careers, personal life, relationships…how we navigate through life…do we use a moral compass?
On page 627 of The IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament author Craig S. Keener says of II Timothy 2:15, to the images of soldier, athlete and farmer II Timothy 2: 3 - 6 , Paul also adds worker – perhaps thinking of his own background as a skilled artisan – his emphasis here is on an accurate representation of the gospel of Jesus Christ in contrast to the empty words of those who depart from the truth II Timothy 2:14 & ff
~ ~ ~ ~
You might think I’m splitting hairs and that it’s just a nuance of difference in the way that wierwille handled the Bible. Not really. In PFAL, wierwille makes it out to be merely an exercise in linguistics devoid of any moral implications.
And to add to the confusion wierwille was incompetent with the biblical languages. As I pointed out in Part 1, wierwille let envy of the non-Christian world tinge his interpretation of John 10:10. Read the context ofJohn 10 NIV it is the Good Shepherd – Jesus Christ talking about how he takes care of the flock. To think of Jesus Christ as your ticket to health and wealth is to change, pervert, mutilate, and distort his purpose in coming to Earth.
Maybe it’s time to reevaluate the teachings of PFAL.
On another thread Power For Abundant Living Today , I asked if the new class taught the same dubious stuffthat was in the old PFAL class of 1967:
4 crucified
The Bible interprets itself
To whom the Bible is written
The 7 administrations
The law of believing
The law of giving and receiving
does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother?
Receive, retain, release
“For this purpose, was I spared”
The day Jesus Christ died
Who is The Word in John 1:1
The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise
Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit
People can get born again of the wrong seed
The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions
As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please
Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king
Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations
To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things
you can’t go beyond what you’re taught
God can only speak to what He is which is spirit
God can only give what He is which is spirit
There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong
Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session?
Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from?
Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille?
Does the new class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm?
Does the class still cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues?
Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited?
Unless you’ve been through the way corps program – you have no idea of what utter despair, hopelessness and fear of expulsion can do to your psyche – even willing to compromise convictions and give up any freedoms in order to stay in good graces with top leadership and enjoy the comfort of the elite social system of the way corps.
Ain't that the truth!
Most of you here were under VPW's control.
I suffered under LCM. Now that really was hell. Walking on eggshells all the time and never sure when his outrage would burst out (mind you, he learned some of that from the master manipulator himself). I was wrecked when they kicked me out. Am still not "whole" now, just doing the best possible with my disjointed self.
Those poor fools that are still participating in the corps program - who think themselves spiritual elites, and that we who are no longer around are losers, grease spots, spat on by God - can't help but feel a bit sorry for them. They still have all the despair, hopelessness, fear, and compromise to come. Hey, here's the Cafe. We'll catch you if we can .
After one of those grueling 5AM to midnight days, the only thing on your mind was the chance of getting another 5 hrs. sleep.
And then, when you collapse from exhaustion or have a fit of the weepies, you get hauled in by the corps coord and asked if you're spiritually up to it, or are you too weak to hack God's work.
127. PFAL urges students to view a lot of the Bible as a blank check from God.
In the first session of PFAL, wierwille was very excited about the more abundant life Jesus Christ made available. And he portrayed it as mostly material abundance – for he speaks with envy of what he observed in non-Christians. At one point he teaches to receive anything from God, the first thing one must know is - what is available. He also makes a claim there are over 900 promises in the Bible– and asks the class how many do you know?And then states that’s how many promises you can claim.
Now consider the words of Jesus:
but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful…Mark 4:19
I've known many Christians (besides myself ) who have fallen into discouragement, disillusionment, and disappointment with God over unbiblical expectations...I think in part we may have been misguided about prayer, and we get caught up in thinking financial prosperity and owning lots of stuff are proofs of God’s approval and favor.
Grads of PFAL are often urged to think of certain passages of Scripture as a means to tap into God’s unlimited resources – like a blank check with the amount left for the payee (the believer) to fill in. How different from the modest life Jesus lived and promoted:
Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”
So He said to them, “When you pray, say:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come; your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.”
And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’?
I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
“So, I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
Jesus was teaching his disciples principles of prayer. God is pictured as a loving, caring, and righteous Father to all of us. It also speaks to the brotherhood of man. Not to be so stubborn in getting our way but to submit to the sovereignty of God. Our prayer life should be immediate – we think and focus on our needs of the current day. We treat others like we would like to be treated – and we imitate our forgiving Heavenly Father when we forgive others. We ask God for moral guidance when the way is not clear, and we ask Him to rescue us from bad decisions and overwhelming circumstances. Jesus taught we must be persistent in prayer – often I give up too easy. Sometimes I’m blinded by my own worry and don’t see that God may have already answered my request in a different way than what I expected. Sometimes we doubt if God will come through for us - or give us the wrong thing.
I think James could be speaking to folks who are into the prosperity gospel. James warns, “You ask and receive not because you ask with wrong motives, so you can spend it on your pleasures” James 4:3
Having said that, as God’s children, we do have legitimate needs and in keeping with the whole of Scripture and what it teaches about prayer and the hindrances to prayer, etc., if we will ask according to God’s will, then we can know that as our Heavenly Father who knows and cares for our needs (our real need and not greed), He will answer according to His timing, purposes, and wisdom.
Sometime thoughtfully read Hebrews 11 NIV and take note of the heroes of faith inducted into the divine hall of fame. Some conquered kingdoms, some faced imprisonment and death, some destitute and persecuted. Yet they were all commended for their faith. God declares the world is not worthy of the righteous. The Hebrews 11 believers did not receive all that was promised to them. Yet they endured. They stayed faithful. How is our endurance?
I wonder how many prosperity-gospel-adherents would still be into Christianity if all that it offered was Jesus Christ.
What is a Christian view of materialism? Merriam-Webster defines materialism as "a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values." A preoccupation with anything that takes precedence over God and spiritual values is wrong for a Christian.
And here’s some relevant hyperlinks to view at your convenience:
The prosperity gospel is a hallmark of the dangerous Word of Faith Movement, of which vpw was an incredibly minor player, copying others. We were taught that if we wanted something, we could ask God Almighty and He'd give it to us.
127. PFAL urges students to view a lot of the Bible as a blank check from God.
In the first session of PFAL, wierwille was very excited about the more abundant life Jesus Christ made available. And he portrayed it as mostly material abundance – for he speaks with envy of what he observed in non-Christians. At one point he teaches to receive anything from God, the first thing one must know is - what is available. He also makes a claim there are over 900 promises in the Bible– and asks the class how many do you know?And then states that’s how many promises you can claim.
The prosperity gospel is a hallmark of the dangerous Word of Faith Movement, of which vpw was an incredibly minor player, copying others. We were taught that if we wanted something, we could ask God Almighty and He'd give it to us.
Therein the ultimate CON JOB just had, once again, the curtain go up so we could all see it for what it was nearly 50 years ago that pulled us in. The sense of belonging kept us there (for me, it did so for 12 years), but...
2 hours ago, T-Bone said:
to view a lot of the Bible as a blank check from God.
Having said that, as God’s children, we do have legitimate needs and in keeping with the whole of Scripture and what it teaches about prayer and the hindrances to prayer, etc., if we will ask according to God’s will, then we can know that as our Heavenly Father who knows and cares for our needs (our real need and not greed), He will answer according to His timing, purposes, and wisdom.
Our first need is to get to know God. We should be learning of His love from our parents, and grow up understanding what love is. Some of us don't have parents who could supply that model. And for those people the need to know God, as a God of loving kindness, is particularly imperative. Not that it is of lesser importance to those who already have a concept of what loving kindness is.
Because we've had more (or less) loving parents, we know what it is to have our daily needs supplied: shelter, warmth, food, clothing, companionship, and hopefully respect - that we're listened to.
We also know that our loving parents denied us some things and required us to do other things. No, it's not candies all day every day. Yes, you do have to develop the discipline to go to school every day. No, you can't have that very expensive pair of trainers/pants/the latest electronic toy. Yes, you can have decent shoes, clothes, and things to do. No, you can't have everything just for yourself. Yes, you do have to share that toy with your siblings/friends.
As growing teenagers there's a lot of peer pressure. But the true joy of friendship is that coming from supportive friends. We need to learn to appreciate that (and teach children to appreciate that).
And that, one hopes, will set the tone for what one learns to appreciate about God. His friendship, his support, his givingness. Not just his provision of material things.
Do these "prosperity" gospellers see their parents merely as providers of things they want? Of just being "money bags"? Do they value what their parents might have had to do, to provide those things?
Or do they value the support, the kindness, the intangibles, that their parents provided?
128. Once a cult-mindset is formed it can be extremely difficult to change.
There are many reasons why it can be very complicated to make “adjustments” – and probably a biggie is just becoming “familiar” with one’s own outlook. Not sure if this is the best way to describe it – but it’s like taking a detached look at yourself…almost like if you were God – what would you think of this person?
Charles F. Kettering , American inventor, engineer, businessman, and the holder of 186 patents, a founder of Delco, and was head of research at General Motors from 1920 to 1947. Many cite Kettering’s maxim that “A problem well-framed is a problem half-solved.” What I’m saying is first we must be aware there is a problem.
The PFAL class is an entry-level indoctrination process that requires little to no experience, education, or training. As a matter of fact, the less one knows about the Bible and/or lacks street-smarts, that’s all the better for what makes an ideal PFAL student.
[FYI Street-smarts = the experience and knowledge necessary to deal with the potential difficulties, scams, and dangers of life. ]
~ ~ ~ ~
Mindsets are necessary. To understand this item # 128 of Why PFAL sucks, one needs to grasp where a mindset comes from.
A mindset is a frame of mind. It’s the sum of beliefs, opinions, and thoughts that we've formed about the world and ourselves. It's the lens through which we observe our world.
Our education, religion, upbringing, and experience shape our beliefs and thoughts. Our mind is "set." It directly impacts how our perception and reactions.
The Stanford University psychologist Carol Dweck (2006) popularized the idea of mindsets by contrasting different beliefs about where our abilities come from. If we have a fixed mindset and think that our ability is innate, then a failure can be unsettling because it makes us doubt how good we are. In contrast, if we have a growth mindset, then we expect that we can improve our ability—and a failure, therefore, shows us what we need to work on.
One of our greatest assets is the freedom to choose our response in any situation.
When we were kids we often exercised that freedom as much as we could - - which occasionally pushed our parents / or parent to the brink of dropping us off at the fire station under the cover of night and then joining the peace corps.
As we got older and learned more about how life works, we learned to make better choices, play well with others and appreciate the love letters that we receive at the fire station from our guilt-ridden parents/parent on a peace corps mission somewhere in the world…
...Maybe when we get to adulthood, we forget how flexible, adventurous, and often fearless we were to change our minds.
He says in his book that his focus is on changes of the mind that occur CONSCIOUSLY as a result of forces that can be IDENTIFIED - in the book he notes 7 factors for changing minds .
Gardner does NOT list faith as one of the factors… But it is interesting what Gardner says about faith on pages 186 and 187 which I will list here:
"Perhaps the most famous change of mind of all times was that undergone by Rabbi Saul of Tarsus during the first century A.D. Having been a persecutor of Christianity and, indeed having embarked on a journey to Damascus to suppress this new and troublesome sect, Saul was temporarily blinded. He heard a voice that thundered, "Why persecutist thou me?"
On his arrival in Damascus, Saul [now Paul] regained his sight and became a convert to Christianity. He studied the life of Christ and became a leader – an apostle – of Christianity…Paul had seen the errors of his ways, undergone a dramatic conversion, and was able to use his personal experiences as a basis on which to communicate to others who might be persuaded to change their religious allegiance.
In our terms, we could say that a real event in Paul's world triggered this dramatic change in his own mind – a change that resonated with him and would eventually resonate with millions of others. Changes in faith are intensely personal."
In the context of my involvement in The Way International, there were a series of real events that led to me changing my mind about what I thought of TWI. They were not as dramatic as Paul’s conversion - but real events were a catalyst just the same! It took years - the buildup of ignored red flags, mental and emotional scar tissues, disappointments, disillusionment, frustrations, questions, doubts all pushed me to a tipping point when the power struggles and propaganda was ramped up in 1986.
~ ~ ~ ~
So, our mindset is simply beliefs, opinions and thoughts that we hold near and dear:
"...Beliefs as energy-saving shortcuts in modeling and predicting the environment. Beliefs are our brain’s way of making sense of and navigating our complex world. They are mental representations of the ways our brains expect things in our environment to behave, and how things should be related to each other—the patterns our brain expects the world to conform to. Beliefs are templates for efficient learning and are often essential for survival...
...These shortcuts to interpreting and predicting our world often involve connecting dots and filling in gaps, making extrapolations and assumptions based on incomplete information and based on similarity to previously recognized patterns. In jumping to conclusions, our brains have a preference for familiar conclusions over unfamiliar ones. Thus, our brains are prone to error, sometimes seeing patterns where there are none. This may or may not be subsequently identified and corrected by error-detection mechanisms. It’s a trade-off between efficiency and accuracy...
...In its need for economy and efficiency of energy consumption, the default tendency of the brain is to fit new information into its existing framework for understanding the world, rather than repeatedly reconstructing that framework from scratch...
...Radically restructuring our belief system and creating a new worldview engages parts of the brain involved in higher reasoning processes and computation, and is consequently more effortful, time- and energy-consuming. The brain often cannot afford such an investment. This would explain why, when we experience cognitive dissonance, it is easier to resolve this discomfort by doubling down on our existing belief system—ignoring or explaining away the challenging, contradictory information....
...Science values the changing of minds through disproving previously held beliefs and challenging received authority with new evidence. This is in sharp contrast to faith (not just religious faith). Faith is far more natural and intuitive to the human brain than is science. Science requires training. It is a disciplined method that tries to systematically overcome or bypass our intuitions and cognitive biases and follow the evidence regardless of our prior beliefs, expectations, preferences or personal investment.
...The increasing application of the scientific method in the last four centuries ushered in unprecedented, accelerating progress in humanity’s quest to understand the nature of reality and vast improvements in quality of life. Discovering just how mistaken we collectively were about so many things has been the key to sensational societal progress...
...Faith is based on belief without evidence, whereas science is based on evidence without belief. "
In PFAL wierwille emphatically states there is a way to describe two groups that are different from each other –
“all without exception” and “all without distinction”.
That’s enough to make a thinking person go “huh?”
Countless “Huh?” moments like this arose for me. However, I learned early on not to inquire into the logical fallacies, absurd claims, linguistic stupidities and blatant errors. There are only so many exasperated, condescending sighs a “student” can take.
This is why I put “teach” in quotes. Victor and his acolytes don’t know what it means to teach.
The embarrassed avoidance of questions and the further confusion caused by the gaslighting, condescending answers, along with the brutal schedule and duration of “the class,” are all designed to wear the “student” down to a dull edge of compliance.
27. victor teaches the LEAST a Christian should be expected to do is tithe - before ANYTHING, tithe. The implication is you are not a Christian if you don't tithe. The tithe is victor's sine qua non of Christian identity.
Guilt trips and gas lighting all the way down.
Closed-door meeting with a delinquent cheerful giver:
I’m sorry guys, but I’ve had it with this money-grubbing penny-pinching two-bit ministry.
How the hell do you get Old Testament tithing laws and a few New Testament accounts of collections taken up for the needy to mean in this day and time and hour I’m supposed to send fifteen percent of my income to some fat-cats in New Knoxville?
Yeah…I remember it now…just like it was yesterday…when I signed up for PFAL, it said on the back of the green card the class increases prosperity.
I thought it meantmyprosperity – not the ministry’s.
Closed-door meeting with a delinquent cheerful giver:
I’m sorry guys, but I’ve had it with this money-grubbing penny-pinching two-bit ministry.
How the hell do you get Old Testament tithing laws and a few New Testament accounts of collections taken up for the needy to mean in this day and time and hour I’m supposed to send fifteen percent of my income to some fat-cats in New Knoxville?
Yeah…I remember it now…just like it was yesterday…when I signed up for PFAL, it said on the back of the green card the class increases prosperity.
I thought it meantmyprosperity – not the ministry’s.
Yep. This photo is an accurate illustration of how I felt at every fellowship.
If the commander said to me, “Hey! I really need some help with xyz, could you provide financial support?” I likely would have happily given. But instead, he said, “God loves a cheerful giver - Hey! I didn’t write the book.”
The implication is you will not be loved by God unless you give me money - and you better be happy about being manipulated!
This is abject wickedness. And a lie in the name of God.
These days, I still aim to give away around 10% of my income.
I cheerfully donate to the work of my church, which is big in outreach, especially to underprivileged families. I also choose various international charities, and a couple of local charities working to support and uplift very vulnerable and street homeless people.
I do this because I have a thankful heart that acknowledges how very much I have myself, in healthcare, clean safe water, food, education, housing, etc; and how very little some people elsewhere have.
All of these charities I'm satisfied meet real needs. Yes, some of the money goes in administration and staffing costs. But the bulk really does go to supporting the people in need.
Whereas, money given to TWI goes into coffers to pay for - what, exactly? Sure, some salaries (but then, don't people live on a need basis? LoL) and buildings do need upkeep (but usually the labour costs are free, it's just the materials that need to be paid for). I am aware of a "scholarship" that was given to a trainee in my WC to a male from a poorer African country - but again, the "costs" of training in the WC are negligible, and I'm sure there'd be an ulterior motive - send him back where he came from, to recruit new people (and gain thus their minimal income).
PFAL sucks because it doesn't teach giving from love and a thankful heart, it teaches giving from fear and obligation.
And it's absolutely nobody else's business what any individual chooses to give, in the quiet of their own heart, whether that be the smallest or the largest amount.
These days, I still aim to give away around 10% of my income.
I cheerfully donate to the work of my church, which is big in outreach, especially to underprivileged families. I also choose various international charities, and a couple of local charities working to support and uplift very vulnerable and street homeless people.
I do this because I have a thankful heart that acknowledges how very much I have myself, in healthcare, clean safe water, food, education, housing, etc; and how very little some people elsewhere have.
All of these charities I'm satisfied meet real needs. Yes, some of the money goes in administration and staffing costs. But the bulk really does go to supporting the people in need.
Whereas, money given to TWI goes into coffers to pay for - what, exactly? Sure, some salaries (but then, don't people live on a need basis? LoL) and buildings do need upkeep (but usually the labour costs are free, it's just the materials that need to be paid for). I am aware of a "scholarship" that was given to a trainee in my WC to a male from a poorer African country - but again, the "costs" of training in the WC are negligible, and I'm sure there'd be an ulterior motive - send him back where he came from, to recruit new people (and gain thus their minimal income).
PFAL sucks because it doesn't teach giving from love and a thankful heart, it teaches giving from fear and obligation.
And it's absolutely nobody else's business what any individual chooses to give, in the quiet of their own heart, whether that be the smallest or the largest amount.
Really cool, Twinky and that’s a big difference from the TWI model!
What comes to mind is Galatians:
All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along...Galatians 2:10
As an organization – supposedly a ministry – a ‘church’ – one of the most important attributes is being charitable – and TWI does not have that!
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
120
259
157
205
Popular Days
Nov 2
154
Oct 30
111
Nov 3
106
Nov 4
104
Top Posters In This Topic
Mike 120 posts
T-Bone 259 posts
OldSkool 157 posts
Nathan_Jr 205 posts
Popular Days
Nov 2 2022
154 posts
Oct 30 2022
111 posts
Nov 3 2022
106 posts
Nov 4 2022
104 posts
Popular Posts
penworks
VPW's statement that the Bible interprets itself is nonsense. The act of interpretation of any text is done by the reader of the text. People interpret what they read. They are the ones who give it me
waysider
And in doing so, he was violating his own "To Whom it is Written" rule.
Charity
What I see in what you wrote Chockfull is that we were meant to have a relationship with the class - you know the one that replaced our relationship with Christ. It was our lord in that it had power,
Posted Images
T-Bone
124. wierwille challenges the authority of God
“…it would be a violation of God’s sovereignty to suppose his creative power was limited by available means or in any way hostage to principles external to it.” Hugh J. McCann, The God Beyond Time, essay in Philosophy of Religion An Anthology 7th Edition .
What comes to mind is wierwille’s marketing of the law of believing, also known as magical thinking and omnipotence of thought. wierwille was always critical of psychology and would belittle the work of Freud by saying things like “psychiatry was born in a séance”. However, in the academic world it’s been said of Sigmund Freud :
Freud’s psychoanalysis can contribute a great deal to the elucidation of religious phenomena…The omnipotence of thoughts, a mechanism particularly favored by obsessive-compulsives, was recruited in Totem and Taboo (1913) to explain animism and religion. The omnipotence of thoughts is the unconscious presupposition that the wish is equivalent to the deed and that wishing can effect, independently of any action, changes in one’s environment. Freud believed that in the animistic-magical stage people ascribe omnipotence to themselves, while in the religious stage they transfer it to a deity and yet retain the idea that they can influence that deity through prayer and ritual according to their wishes.
From Sigmund Freud article by Edwin Ruthven Wallace IV , psychiatrist, neuropsychiatrist, and psychotherapist, pages 474, 475 of Baker Encyclopedia of Psychology and Counseling, editors David Benner & Peter Hill
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
WOW!
Pretty sure Wierwille and Martindale taught (advanced class on PFLAP probably) animism. Sounds like ol' Vic was projecting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
A behind-the-scenes look at how Scripture interprets itself
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
125. espouses a misleading concept of rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Part 1 taking another look at “rightly dividing”
Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.... Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reason # 125 of why PFAL sucks has a lot to do with how detrimental bad instructions can be to young and naive minds. If you’re reading this thread, I assume you’re a grad and very familiar with the term “rightly dividing”. Rather than deconstructing chapter 10, The Rightly-divided Word in the orange PFAL book, which is nothing more than a commercial for wierwille to sell his own plagiarized and emulsified version of Bullinger’s How to Enjoy the Bible - I intend to leave a few bread crumbs for those who are very disappointed with wierwille’s teachings.
~ ~ ~ ~
One of the great things about Grease Spot Cafe is all the eye-opening anecdotes, personal experiences, interesting books, and hyperlinks that Grease Spotters share here. It's helpful in so many ways and it often whets folks' appetite to explore these things for themselves.
Escaping the harmful and controlling mind games of The Way International should be driven by something from within you.
And probably the first of hurdles to overcome is to work on self-respect – a healthy pride and confidence in oneself – which has been deliberately whittled down by The Way International through various means with the end goal of you trusting what the ministry says over anything else – even your own cognitive skills and intuition…
...In the wake of the ministry-wide meltdown after the Patriarch Paper, all kinds of red flags, questions, and doubts popped up in my head! That propelled me to investigate and reevaluate just about everything I learned from the ministry…
It's probably the most difficult part of the journey – the beginning.
Because YOU have to THINK – not just absorb what someone at Grease Spot Café said.
YOU have to mull it over – examine the matter, analyze it and meditate on the possible actions as well as their outcomes – and then at some point YOU will have to CHOOSE what action to take – and of course deciding NOT to think about this stuff anymore but remain comfortable in your little TWI-world is YOUR CHOICE also.
In the 1999 movie The Matrix the main character Neo is offered the choice between a red pill and a blue pill by rebel leader Morpheus. There’s only two options and Morpheus explains the stark difference between the effects of each pill. The red pill will enable Neo to learn a potentially unsettling life-changing truth. The blue pill will permit Neo to remain in contented ignorance. The red pill represents an uncertain future…it would free Neo from an enslaving dreamlike control system and allow him to escape into the real world…Grease Spot Cafe is like the red pill
~ ~ ~ ~
PFAL is such a poor teaching model because it doesn’t encourage students to exercise their cognitive skills – instead “the teacher” (wierwille) through double-talk, Scripture twisting, and logical fallacies leads students down the path of trusting him and following his example. PFAL is a hyped up confidence trick .
In the PFAL book, page 119, wierwille zeros-in on the term “rightly dividing” of II Timothy 2:15, and says it’s the Greek word orthotomounta and states “It’s intricate nuance of meaning is that there is only one way to rightly cut The Word; all other ways are wrong cuttings”. First off, I wouldn’t trust wierwille to define words in the original biblical languages used in the Bible. The man lied about his academic accomplishments. He insisted everyone should refer to him as “Doctor Wierwille” a title he got from a degree mill, Pikes Peak Bible Seminary an unaccredited correspondence school in Manitou Springs, Colorado. The seminary was regarded as a diploma mill by the United States Office of Education. I find that contradictory and pretentious of a man who thumbed his nose at academia and yet wanted his followers to be impressed by pretending to have greater importance, qualifications, and achievements than he actually possessed.
~ ~ ~ ~
Let’s look at another translation of II Timothy 2:15 along with a few legitimate knowledgeable sources to get a better understanding of the term “rightly dividing”.
Study and do your best to present yourself to God approved, a workman [tested by trial] who has no reason to be ashamed, accurately handling and skillfully teaching the word of truth… II Timothy 2:15 Amplified
The NIV translates the Greek word ὀρθοτομοῦντα ( transliteration = orthotomounta see 2 Timothy 2:15 Greek Text Analysis on Bible Hub website ) as “correctly handles” – and on page 2181 of NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible explaining it as interpreting Scripture in a straightforward manner, NOT in a way that is deceitful and references another pastoral letter:
10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” 13 This saying is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good… Titus 1: 10 - 16 NIV
On page 2188 of NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible it says considering the fact that the letters to Timothy and Titus are addressing minister or leadership in the church we see that “truth” is a prominent concern in the pastoral epistles. More often Paul uses “truth” to refer to refer to the message about Christ that saves (1 Tim. 2:4; 3:9,15; 4:3,6; 2 Tim. 2:15,25) and leads to godliness ( Titus 1:1).
Beginning on page 3 of the PFAL book wierwille explains his intentions. He says one verse changed his life:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly… John 10:10 KJV
wierwille goes on to say he looked at the lack of material abundance in the communities and other ministers where he served and compared it to the secular world of non-Christians and their obvious substantial wealth. wierwille reinterpreted the message of Christ as savior, that further leads to a life of godliness. He made it into a gospel of prosperity.
End of Part 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
125. espouses a misleading concept of rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
Part 2: it’s not amoral linguistics
Exploring further the Greek word orthotomounta, on pages 262 and 263 of New Testament Commentary:Exposition of Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews authors William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker affirm the same points as NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible regarding “rightly handling the word of truth” of II Timothy 2:15, this word of truth is the testimony concerning our Lord II Timothy 1:8 . Orthotomounta is a composite verb – the primary meaning of the main element (the base) of the composite verb is “to cut” – with a prefix “straight” - however the meaning-emphasis may shift, until in the semantic process the literal sense of the base is lost. Thus straight-cutting begins to mean straight-handling or handling aright, faithfully, accurately. It is not so strange that, by an easy shift from the physical to the moral sphere, cutting a straight road or path over the course of time to the exclusively moral use of the term - The righteousness of the blameless makes their paths straight Proverbs 11:5 NIV . The person who handles the word of truth properly does not change, pervert, mutilate or distort it.
On page 1170 of Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Abridged in One Volume, Geoffrey Bromiley says of orthotomounta occurs in the Greek Bible only at Proverbs 3:6 , Proverbs 11:5 where it means make paths straight, to build a road, to lay down a way, and of course in II Timothy 2:15 . Bromiley says the real meaning seems to be that Timothy should speak the word of truth in his conduct – he will present the word legitimately – confirming it in his life.
The motifs of a journey, a path and of walking are quite common in the Bible and usually refer to the big picture of life – how we handle the mundane, careers, personal life, relationships…how we navigate through life…do we use a moral compass?
On page 627 of The IVP Bible Background Commentary: New Testament author Craig S. Keener says of II Timothy 2:15, to the images of soldier, athlete and farmer II Timothy 2: 3 - 6 , Paul also adds worker – perhaps thinking of his own background as a skilled artisan – his emphasis here is on an accurate representation of the gospel of Jesus Christ in contrast to the empty words of those who depart from the truth II Timothy 2:14 & ff
~ ~ ~ ~
You might think I’m splitting hairs and that it’s just a nuance of difference in the way that wierwille handled the Bible. Not really. In PFAL, wierwille makes it out to be merely an exercise in linguistics devoid of any moral implications.
And to add to the confusion wierwille was incompetent with the biblical languages. As I pointed out in Part 1, wierwille let envy of the non-Christian world tinge his interpretation of John 10:10. Read the context of John 10 NIV it is the Good Shepherd – Jesus Christ talking about how he takes care of the flock. To think of Jesus Christ as your ticket to health and wealth is to change, pervert, mutilate, and distort his purpose in coming to Earth.
Maybe it’s time to reevaluate the teachings of PFAL.
On another thread Power For Abundant Living Today , I asked if the new class taught the same dubious stuff that was in the old PFAL class of 1967:
4 crucified
The Bible interprets itself
To whom the Bible is written
The 7 administrations
The law of believing
The law of giving and receiving
does that little boy still get killed by the fear in the heart of his mother?
Receive, retain, release
“For this purpose, was I spared”
The day Jesus Christ died
Who is The Word in John 1:1
The Bible is mathematically exact and scientifically precise
Humankind were originally body, soul, and spirit
People can get born again of the wrong seed
The way to get back to the original God-breathed Word is by comparing translations and versions
As long as one loves God and neighbor they can do as they full well please
Technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king
Each believer can operate all 9 manifestations
To receive anything from God you must know the 5 things
you can’t go beyond what you’re taught
God can only speak to what He is which is spirit
God can only give what He is which is spirit
There’s only one way to rightly divide the Word - all other ways are wrong
Do you still have to hold all questions until the last session?
Do they specifically mention - by name - where wierwille got most of his material from?
Does the new class refer to the 1942 promise made to wierwille?
Does the new class mention wierwille’s trip to India and healing a local man’s arm?
Does the class still cover the mechanics of speech to teach how to speak in tongues?
Does the class still claim speaking in tongues can’t be counterfeited?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Ain't that the truth!
Most of you here were under VPW's control.
I suffered under LCM. Now that really was hell. Walking on eggshells all the time and never sure when his outrage would burst out (mind you, he learned some of that from the master manipulator himself). I was wrecked when they kicked me out. Am still not "whole" now, just doing the best possible with my disjointed self.
Those poor fools that are still participating in the corps program - who think themselves spiritual elites, and that we who are no longer around are losers, grease spots, spat on by God - can't help but feel a bit sorry for them. They still have all the despair, hopelessness, fear, and compromise to come. Hey, here's the Cafe. We'll catch you if we can
.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
And then, when you collapse from exhaustion or have a fit of the weepies, you get hauled in by the corps coord and asked if you're spiritually up to it, or are you too weak to hack God's work.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
126. It cultivates excessive admiration for the PFAL class…
...some grads have been known to put it on par with the Bible.
Edited by T-Bonethe editor has left the building
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
The Way International Headquarters:
The pomp and circumstance that goes into shipping the PFAL class out to areas of concern, interest and need.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Meanwhile, at the desk of The Way International’s CFO:
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
127. PFAL urges students to view a lot of the Bible as a blank check from God.
In the first session of PFAL, wierwille was very excited about the more abundant life Jesus Christ made available. And he portrayed it as mostly material abundance – for he speaks with envy of what he observed in non-Christians. At one point he teaches to receive anything from God, the first thing one must know is - what is available. He also makes a claim there are over 900 promises in the Bible – and asks the class how many do you know? And then states that’s how many promises you can claim.
Now consider the words of Jesus:
but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful…Mark 4:19
I've known many Christians (besides myself
) who have fallen into discouragement, disillusionment, and disappointment with God over unbiblical expectations...I think in part we may have been misguided about prayer, and we get caught up in thinking financial prosperity and owning lots of stuff are proofs of God’s approval and favor.
Grads of PFAL are often urged to think of certain passages of Scripture as a means to tap into God’s unlimited resources – like a blank check with the amount left for the payee (the believer) to fill in. How different from the modest life Jesus lived and promoted:
Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”
So He said to them, “When you pray, say:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come; your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.”
And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’?
I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
“So, I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”
Luke 11 NKJV
~ ~ ~ ~
Jesus was teaching his disciples principles of prayer. God is pictured as a loving, caring, and righteous Father to all of us. It also speaks to the brotherhood of man. Not to be so stubborn in getting our way but to submit to the sovereignty of God. Our prayer life should be immediate – we think and focus on our needs of the current day. We treat others like we would like to be treated – and we imitate our forgiving Heavenly Father when we forgive others. We ask God for moral guidance when the way is not clear, and we ask Him to rescue us from bad decisions and overwhelming circumstances. Jesus taught we must be persistent in prayer – often I give up too easy. Sometimes I’m blinded by my own worry and don’t see that God may have already answered my request in a different way than what I expected. Sometimes we doubt if God will come through for us - or give us the wrong thing.
I think James could be speaking to folks who are into the prosperity gospel. James warns, “You ask and receive not because you ask with wrong motives, so you can spend it on your pleasures” James 4:3
Having said that, as God’s children, we do have legitimate needs and in keeping with the whole of Scripture and what it teaches about prayer and the hindrances to prayer, etc., if we will ask according to God’s will, then we can know that as our Heavenly Father who knows and cares for our needs (our real need and not greed), He will answer according to His timing, purposes, and wisdom.
Sometime thoughtfully read Hebrews 11 NIV and take note of the heroes of faith inducted into the divine hall of fame. Some conquered kingdoms, some faced imprisonment and death, some destitute and persecuted. Yet they were all commended for their faith. God declares the world is not worthy of the righteous. The Hebrews 11 believers did not receive all that was promised to them. Yet they endured. They stayed faithful. How is our endurance?
I wonder how many prosperity-gospel-adherents would still be into Christianity if all that it offered was Jesus Christ.
What is a Christian view of materialism? Merriam-Webster defines materialism as "a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values." A preoccupation with anything that takes precedence over God and spiritual values is wrong for a Christian.
And here’s some relevant hyperlinks to view at your convenience:
What is a Christian view of materialism? (compellingtruth.org)
Materialism and Christianity - Wikipedia
Prosperity theology - Wikipedia
Prosperity gospel | Definition, Origins, History, Theology, Criticism, & Facts | Britannica
How American Life Is Impacted By The Prosperity Gospel : Throughline : NPR
What Is the Prosperity Gospel? (tifwe.org)
Prosperity Gospel | Topics | Christianity Today
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
The prosperity gospel is a hallmark of the dangerous Word of Faith Movement, of which vpw was an incredibly minor player, copying others. We were taught that if we wanted something, we could ask God Almighty and He'd give it to us.
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/25436-the-dangerous-word-of-faith-movement-and-how-it-harmed-christians-in-twi/
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
True that!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
Therein the ultimate CON JOB just had, once again, the curtain go up so we could all see it for what it was nearly 50 years ago that pulled us in. The sense of belonging kept us there (for me, it did so for 12 years), but...
was the hook, from the start.
Edited by RockyLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Our first need is to get to know God. We should be learning of His love from our parents, and grow up understanding what love is. Some of us don't have parents who could supply that model. And for those people the need to know God, as a God of loving kindness, is particularly imperative. Not that it is of lesser importance to those who already have a concept of what loving kindness is.
Because we've had more (or less) loving parents, we know what it is to have our daily needs supplied: shelter, warmth, food, clothing, companionship, and hopefully respect - that we're listened to.
We also know that our loving parents denied us some things and required us to do other things. No, it's not candies all day every day. Yes, you do have to develop the discipline to go to school every day. No, you can't have that very expensive pair of trainers/pants/the latest electronic toy. Yes, you can have decent shoes, clothes, and things to do. No, you can't have everything just for yourself. Yes, you do have to share that toy with your siblings/friends.
As growing teenagers there's a lot of peer pressure. But the true joy of friendship is that coming from supportive friends. We need to learn to appreciate that (and teach children to appreciate that).
And that, one hopes, will set the tone for what one learns to appreciate about God. His friendship, his support, his givingness. Not just his provision of material things.
Do these "prosperity" gospellers see their parents merely as providers of things they want? Of just being "money bags"? Do they value what their parents might have had to do, to provide those things?
Or do they value the support, the kindness, the intangibles, that their parents provided?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Needs and wants parallel?
Huh, in Wayland it was Greed and wants parallel.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
128. Once a cult-mindset is formed it can be extremely difficult to change.
There are many reasons why it can be very complicated to make “adjustments” – and probably a biggie is just becoming “familiar” with one’s own outlook. Not sure if this is the best way to describe it – but it’s like taking a detached look at yourself…almost like if you were God – what would you think of this person?
Charles F. Kettering , American inventor, engineer, businessman, and the holder of 186 patents, a founder of Delco, and was head of research at General Motors from 1920 to 1947. Many cite Kettering’s maxim that “A problem well-framed is a problem half-solved.” What I’m saying is first we must be aware there is a problem.
Self-awareness is the experience of one's own personality or individuality. It is not to be confused with consciousness - - being aware of one's environment, body and lifestyle; self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness. Self-awareness is how an individual experiences and understands their own character, feelings, motives, and desires.
Here's some helpful hyperlinks:
How to Increase Your Self-Awareness and Peace of Mind | Psychology Today
What Is Self-Awareness, and How Do You Get It? | Psychology Today
Increasing Your Self-Awareness | Psychology Today
Self-Awareness: Development, Types, and How to Improve (verywellmind.com)
~ ~ ~ ~
The PFAL class is an entry-level indoctrination process that requires little to no experience, education, or training. As a matter of fact, the less one knows about the Bible and/or lacks street-smarts, that’s all the better for what makes an ideal PFAL student.
[FYI Street-smarts = the experience and knowledge necessary to deal with the potential difficulties, scams, and dangers of life. ]
~ ~ ~ ~
Mindsets are necessary. To understand this item # 128 of Why PFAL sucks, one needs to grasp where a mindset comes from.
A mindset is a frame of mind. It’s the sum of beliefs, opinions, and thoughts that we've formed about the world and ourselves. It's the lens through which we observe our world.
Our education, religion, upbringing, and experience shape our beliefs and thoughts. Our mind is "set." It directly impacts how our perception and reactions.
From: How to Upgrade Your Mindset to Succeed in Life | Psychology Today
~ ~ ~ ~
The Stanford University psychologist Carol Dweck (2006) popularized the idea of mindsets by contrasting different beliefs about where our abilities come from. If we have a fixed mindset and think that our ability is innate, then a failure can be unsettling because it makes us doubt how good we are. In contrast, if we have a growth mindset, then we expect that we can improve our ability—and a failure, therefore, shows us what we need to work on.
From: Mindsets | Psychology Today
Some other hyperlinks about mindset:
Mindset - Wikipedia
What Mindset Is and Why It Matters (verywellmind.com)
~ ~ ~ ~
The key to freedom is something you already have.
One of our greatest assets is the freedom to choose our response in any situation.
When we were kids we often exercised that freedom as much as we could - - which occasionally pushed our parents / or parent to the brink of dropping us off at the fire station under the cover of night and then joining the peace corps.
As we got older and learned more about how life works, we learned to make better choices, play well with others and appreciate the love letters that we receive at the fire station from our guilt-ridden parents/parent on a peace corps mission somewhere in the world…
...Maybe when we get to adulthood, we forget how flexible, adventurous, and often fearless we were to change our minds.
Around 2005 I read a great book which I still review once and awhile - Changing Minds: The Art and Science of Changing Our Own and Other People's Minds by Howard Gardner . He said: The phenomenon of changing minds is one of the least examined and – I would claim – least understood of familiar human experiences.
He says in his book that his focus is on changes of the mind that occur CONSCIOUSLY as a result of forces that can be IDENTIFIED - in the book he notes 7 factors for changing minds .
Gardner does NOT list faith as one of the factors… But it is interesting what Gardner says about faith on pages 186 and 187 which I will list here:
"Perhaps the most famous change of mind of all times was that undergone by Rabbi Saul of Tarsus during the first century A.D. Having been a persecutor of Christianity and, indeed having embarked on a journey to Damascus to suppress this new and troublesome sect, Saul was temporarily blinded. He heard a voice that thundered, "Why persecutist thou me?"
On his arrival in Damascus, Saul [now Paul] regained his sight and became a convert to Christianity. He studied the life of Christ and became a leader – an apostle – of Christianity…Paul had seen the errors of his ways, undergone a dramatic conversion, and was able to use his personal experiences as a basis on which to communicate to others who might be persuaded to change their religious allegiance.
In our terms, we could say that a real event in Paul's world triggered this dramatic change in his own mind – a change that resonated with him and would eventually resonate with millions of others. Changes in faith are intensely personal."
In the context of my involvement in The Way International, there were a series of real events that led to me changing my mind about what I thought of TWI. They were not as dramatic as Paul’s conversion - but real events were a catalyst just the same! It took years - the buildup of ignored red flags, mental and emotional scar tissues, disappointments, disillusionment, frustrations, questions, doubts all pushed me to a tipping point when the power struggles and propaganda was ramped up in 1986.
~ ~ ~ ~
So, our mindset is simply beliefs, opinions and thoughts that we hold near and dear:
"...Beliefs as energy-saving shortcuts in modeling and predicting the environment. Beliefs are our brain’s way of making sense of and navigating our complex world. They are mental representations of the ways our brains expect things in our environment to behave, and how things should be related to each other—the patterns our brain expects the world to conform to. Beliefs are templates for efficient learning and are often essential for survival...
...These shortcuts to interpreting and predicting our world often involve connecting dots and filling in gaps, making extrapolations and assumptions based on incomplete information and based on similarity to previously recognized patterns. In jumping to conclusions, our brains have a preference for familiar conclusions over unfamiliar ones. Thus, our brains are prone to error, sometimes seeing patterns where there are none. This may or may not be subsequently identified and corrected by error-detection mechanisms. It’s a trade-off between efficiency and accuracy...
...In its need for economy and efficiency of energy consumption, the default tendency of the brain is to fit new information into its existing framework for understanding the world, rather than repeatedly reconstructing that framework from scratch...
...Radically restructuring our belief system and creating a new worldview engages parts of the brain involved in higher reasoning processes and computation, and is consequently more effortful, time- and energy-consuming. The brain often cannot afford such an investment. This would explain why, when we experience cognitive dissonance, it is easier to resolve this discomfort by doubling down on our existing belief system—ignoring or explaining away the challenging, contradictory information....
...Science values the changing of minds through disproving previously held beliefs and challenging received authority with new evidence. This is in sharp contrast to faith (not just religious faith). Faith is far more natural and intuitive to the human brain than is science. Science requires training. It is a disciplined method that tries to systematically overcome or bypass our intuitions and cognitive biases and follow the evidence regardless of our prior beliefs, expectations, preferences or personal investment.
...The increasing application of the scientific method in the last four centuries ushered in unprecedented, accelerating progress in humanity’s quest to understand the nature of reality and vast improvements in quality of life. Discovering just how mistaken we collectively were about so many things has been the key to sensational societal progress...
...Faith is based on belief without evidence, whereas science is based on evidence without belief. "
from: Psychology Today: what is a belief? why is it hard to change?
Changing a cult mindset may be tricky – but it’s not impossible!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
129. PFAL has too much double-talk.
A moment of clear thinking:
In PFAL wierwille emphatically states there is a way to describe two groups that are different from each other –
“all without exception” and “all without distinction”.
That’s enough to make a thinking person go “huh?”
Edited by T-Bonealright, so even my editor went "huh?" too
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
130. Handling anomalies during session 12 of PFAL.
If you ask me, I think she was believing to get slain in the spirit.
Edited by T-BoneSlain in the spirit of comedy… now that’s the spirit!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Countless “Huh?” moments like this arose for me. However, I learned early on not to inquire into the logical fallacies, absurd claims, linguistic stupidities and blatant errors. There are only so many exasperated, condescending sighs a “student” can take.
This is why I put “teach” in quotes. Victor and his acolytes don’t know what it means to teach.
The embarrassed avoidance of questions and the further confusion caused by the gaslighting, condescending answers, along with the brutal schedule and duration of “the class,” are all designed to wear the “student” down to a dull edge of compliance.
Edited by Nathan_JrLink to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Closed-door meeting with a delinquent cheerful giver:
I’m sorry guys, but I’ve had it with this money-grubbing penny-pinching two-bit ministry.
How the hell do you get Old Testament tithing laws and a few New Testament accounts of collections taken up for the needy to mean in this day and time and hour I’m supposed to send fifteen percent of my income to some fat-cats in New Knoxville?
Yeah…I remember it now…just like it was yesterday…when I signed up for PFAL, it said on the back of the green card the class increases prosperity.
I thought it meant my prosperity – not the ministry’s.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Yep. This photo is an accurate illustration of how I felt at every fellowship.
If the commander said to me, “Hey! I really need some help with xyz, could you provide financial support?” I likely would have happily given. But instead, he said, “God loves a cheerful giver - Hey! I didn’t write the book.”
The implication is you will not be loved by God unless you give me money - and you better be happy about being manipulated!
This is abject wickedness. And a lie in the name of God.
God doesn’t need nor does God want your money.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
These days, I still aim to give away around 10% of my income.
I cheerfully donate to the work of my church, which is big in outreach, especially to underprivileged families. I also choose various international charities, and a couple of local charities working to support and uplift very vulnerable and street homeless people.
I do this because I have a thankful heart that acknowledges how very much I have myself, in healthcare, clean safe water, food, education, housing, etc; and how very little some people elsewhere have.
All of these charities I'm satisfied meet real needs. Yes, some of the money goes in administration and staffing costs. But the bulk really does go to supporting the people in need.
Whereas, money given to TWI goes into coffers to pay for - what, exactly? Sure, some salaries (but then, don't people live on a need basis? LoL) and buildings do need upkeep (but usually the labour costs are free, it's just the materials that need to be paid for). I am aware of a "scholarship" that was given to a trainee in my WC to a male from a poorer African country - but again, the "costs" of training in the WC are negligible, and I'm sure there'd be an ulterior motive - send him back where he came from, to recruit new people (and gain thus their minimal income).
PFAL sucks because it doesn't teach giving from love and a thankful heart, it teaches giving from fear and obligation.
And it's absolutely nobody else's business what any individual chooses to give, in the quiet of their own heart, whether that be the smallest or the largest amount.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Really cool, Twinky and that’s a big difference from the TWI model!
What comes to mind is Galatians:
All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along...Galatians 2:10
As an organization – supposedly a ministry – a ‘church’ – one of the most important attributes is being charitable – and TWI does not have that!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.