17. It often contains errors that are the byproduct of pretending that the over 400-years old, obsolete King James Version is authoritative in aiding our understanding, as if the KJV word usage was consistent within itself and consistent with modern usage. Probably the most obvious of those errors was hanging an entire doctrine on the KJV usage of the word "replenish" in Genesis 3, when the Hebrew word from which it was taken should be translated "fill" and not "replenish." However, since this error matched what vpw wanted it to say, he went with it. Furthermore, "throughly" is an archaic word that DOES mean "thoroughly" and there is NO DIFFERENCE between their definitions- even though vpw made up an explanation of their differences.
18. II Peter 1: 20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
===========================
vpw made a big deal out of these verses meaning we aren't to do any "private interpretation"- complete with his own, made-up explanation of what that supposedly meant. However, these verses explained the ORIGIN of the verses- they didn't show up because someone sat in a corner and decided to write something on his own, but with input from God Almighty directing him. There's nothing in them about how we are to approach the Bible.
[For those arriving late, I'm just repeating points that were posted over 20 years ago in both examples, and not by me originally.]
vpw's entire premise of the Bible interpreting itself was based on a False Dilemma- that there were exactly 2 possibilities AND NO MORE-
1) the Bible had no interpretation
2) the Bible interpreted ITSELF
Surely, EVEN IF HE HAD BEEN RIGHT, no "private' interpretation would have meant there was a "PUBLIC" interpretation. (That bugged me a long time ago.)
All of that's academic- since vpw was wrong about what that meant. Since he used the archaic KJV's wording, he was able to twist things to sound like they meant what he wanted- even if the Greek was completely different or the Hebrew was.
In this case, as GSC regulars know, the verses were talking about HOW WE GOT THE SCRIPTURES, their ORIGIN. They said NOTHING about how we are to approach them. The word "interpretation" was an awful translation- which is obvious when vpw claims that "private interpretation" is "one's own letting-loose like you let loose the dogs on a hunt." There was nothing about "interpreting" in vpw's colorful digression into dogs on a hunt.
Not sure which item number this fits under in this thread.
I have a few pressing projects tying up most of my time these days, especially with the holidays happening.But I’ve also had more time to think about some things.
It has been a puzzle to me why people are so upset with “The Bible interprets itself,” but I think I am finally understanding some of it.
First let me tell you why I liked it, upon first hearing it.
I am sure I NEVER took it to be literal, but took it as a figure of speech right from the start. And the first thing it told me had nothing to do with the many details that followed, which eventually explained the figure of speech to my complete satisfaction.
What “the Bible interprets itself” FIRST says to me is that there is really only ONE Author of that book.
How I quickly arrived at that, upon my first exposures to the phrase, I’ll leave as a temporary mystery for you all, since I said time is short, especially today.
I probably first heard this phrase from teenagers at my first twig, then 8 weeks later read the PFAL book, and then 4 months later took the film class. We didn’t have SNT tapes then, because they were reel to reel.
*/*/*/*/*
Tell me if I am wrong, but I sense that you all took the phrase to be literal, in the sense that the Bible was like an intricate machine or computer, and that IT did all the work of interpreting, leaving us readers with nothing to interpret.
This reminds me of a joke a couple of my airline friends have told me over the years, and that I hear in the media now at times.The cockpit area of modern airliners are SO AUTOMATED that they only need one pilot to fly it, and one dog to accompany him. The dog’s job is to bite the hand of the of the pilot if he tries to touch any of the controls.
I get the impression that the first take you folks had on hearing with “The Bible interprets itself” was the Bible was like a machine that was SO AUTOMATED that we human readers need do nothing for the interpretation. And if we try, a dog might bite us.
That is like saying, that there are only two possibilities:
either we can perform a private interpretation, or we can perform NO INTERPRETATION at all. And if we want avoid having Tick bite us in the hand, we must choose “no interpretation.”
I have never thought that way.
On first hearing this teaching and then the many details that followed, it was obvious to me that the Bible was not an automated interpreting machine at all.
It was obvious that I had a lot of work to do (not automated) in order for my interpreting performance to NOT be a private interpretation, but a PROPER interpretation, a rightly-divided interpretation.
The way I avoid a private interpretation is to follow the 80 some pages in the book on HOW the “The Bible interprets itself.”
If I follow those steps and avail myself of the resources WITHIN the Bible for my interpreting work, that can help me avoid a private interpretation.
A private interpretation is one where I do NOT avail myself of the resources within the Bible for this, but look within MY OWN resources for the interpretation.
*/*/*/*
Another analogy of the false model for understanding “The Bible interprets itself” is a topic we discussed before.This false model of an automated Bible, that has the ability to interpret for us like a machine or computer, has befuddled some here, I sense.
This other analogy I have in mind is called a “Formal System” in mathematics that was being discussed in the late 1800s and early 1900s.A formal system was a theoretical math machine that could prove mathematical theorems and proofs.It was a theoretical Logic Machine. It could do math jobs that were too difficult for humans to do.
They were using this “math machine” to find and prove all of mathematical truth.Kinda sounds like a Bible that interprets itself?
Godel’s Theorems in 1933 completely busted this logic machine idea. I was fascinated by Godel before I took the class. Maybe this is why I knew right off the bat that “The Bible interprets itself” had to be a figure of speech.
Reason 117. Don Quixote
It causes you to construct windmill battles in your mind like Don here above.
118. to inflame desire but provide no means of satisfaction is not only deceptive – it’s frustrating
Do you remember the claims on the back of the PFAL signup card? Makes life meaningful…enables you to separate truth from error…develops more harmony in the home…disciplines the mind by believing…teaches how to pray effectually
Reason # 118 of why PFAL sucks is also why the whole enchilada – The Way International sucks. In talk about all they have to offer - and it's practically stated as a guarantee (depending on your believing, of course ) in their classes, books, events, doctrines, programs - there is always such hype…such promise – but ultimately no delivery. For a supposedly Christian organization, The Way International might be one of the least favorable environmental conditions under which a Christian can grow – and for one’s cognitive skills to survive.
119. Presents an illusion of knowledge that often dissuades a student from looking any further.
In PFAL wierwille uses skewed methods to organize and interpret information. This tenuous paradigm first introduced in PFAL continues to dull cognitive skills. Even for years after taking the Power For Abundant Living class for the first time, the flimsy framework is periodically shored up by repeating PFAL class and other classes and programs – everything is founded on the tenets of PFAL.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.” – Steven Hawking
Let’s get nerdy for a minute about some terms
Cognitive skills:these intellectual functions are mental skills used in acquiring knowledge, manipulating information, reasoning, and problem-solving. Cognitive skills can be considered a person’s tools for learning.
Understanding: has a variety of definitions: the ability to learn, judge, make decisions, etc.; intelligence or sense, the faculty of reason, personal opinion or interpretation of a subject.
Metacognition is an awareness of one's thought processes and an understanding of the patterns behind them. The term comes from the root word meta, meaning "beyond", or "on top of".[1] Metacognition can take many forms, such as reflecting on one's ways of thinking and knowing when and how to use particular strategies for problem-solving.
And while we’re talking shop – here’s some excerpts from a Psychology Today article:
This brings us to the second question: what behaviors are motivated by the feeling of understanding…researchers feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete. What did this feeling motivate researchers to do? Continue to attempt and build their understanding per se. In the cases where researchers lack the feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete, they seem to do one thing: stop.
That is to say that reaching a feeling of understanding appears to act as a stopping rule for learning. That people stop investing in learning when they feel they understand is likely what Hawkins was hinting at in his quote. The feeling of understanding is the enemy of knowledge because it motivates you to stop acquiring the stuff. It might even motivate you to begin to share that information with others, opting to speak on a topic, rather than defer to who you perceive to be an expert…
…Understanding…is to be distinguished from the feeling of understanding. While understanding…refers to the actual connections among your mental representations, the feeling of understanding refers to your mental representations about the state of those other mental representations. The feeling of understanding, then, is a bit of a metacognitive sensation; your thinking about your thinking.
Much like understanding per se, the feeling of understanding comes in varying degrees: one can feel as if they don’t understand something at all through feeling as if they understand it completely, and anything in between. With this distinction made, we can begin to start considering some profitable questions: what is the connection between understanding per se and the feeling of understanding? What behaviors are encouraged by the feeling of understanding? What functional outcome(s) are those behaviors aimed at achieving? Given these functional outcomes, what predictions can we draw about how people experiencing various degrees of feeling as if they understand something will react to certain contexts?
A good explanation needs to focus on some outcome of a behavior; some plausible function of that outcome that can account for the emotion or feeling itself. This is notably easier in some cases than others: hunger motivates people to seek out and consume food avoiding starvation; fear motivates people to escape from or avoid threatening situations, avoiding danger; guilt motivates people to make amends and repair relationships towards wronged parties, avoiding condemnation and punishment while reaping the benefits of social interaction. Recently, I found myself posing that functional question about a feeling that is not often discussed: understanding.
From my own experience I can attest to the realities in the Psychology Today article. I decided to make PFAL the touchstone for truth. The tenets of PFAL was the criterion by which I sorted out truth from error. The false confidence of having superior knowledge ( an ace up the sleeve for any Gnostic) was probably a big factor in me being driven to share it with others.
~ ~ ~ ~
I believe that everyone is trying to figure out what life is all about. For all intents and purposes that makes us all amateur philosophers. We live…we strive to understand:
…philosophy is not only important to questions of how we should conduct our lives. Human beings are thinking creatures, for whom pure understanding is an end in itself. Finding out about the origin of the universe, or about the nature of conscientiousness, may make no difference in the way we behave, but it would run counter to human nature not to pursue such questions…
…philosophy is needed whenever we are faced by questions that are not only important but also intellectually perplexing…There are plenty of big unanswered questions in science…these questions lack answers only because we haven’t yet amassed enough empirical evidence to reach a conclusion.
Philosophical questions raise a different kind of difficulty. When we ask whether humans have free will…our puzzlement is not just due to a lack of information. Rather the questions themselves are confusing. To make progress we need to scrutinize the very terms…that are used to pose the issues.
The long and the short of it is, our experiences shape our understanding…our perception:
Perception (from Latinperceptio 'gathering, receiving') is the organization, identification, and interpretation of sensory information in order to represent and understand the presented information or environment. All perception involves signals that go through the nervous system, which in turn result from physical or chemical stimulation of the sensory system. Vision involves light striking the retina of the eye; smell is mediated by odor molecules; and hearing involves pressure waves.
Perception is not only the passive receipt of these signals, but it is also shaped by the recipient's learning, memory, expectation, and attention. Sensory input is a process that transforms this low-level information to higher-level information (e.g., extracts shapes for object recognition). The process that follows connects a person's concepts and expectations (or knowledge), restorative and selective mechanisms (such as attention) that influence perception.
Although people traditionally viewed the senses as passive receptors, the study of illusions and ambiguous images has demonstrated that the brain's perceptual systems actively and pre-consciously attempt to make sense of their input.[4] There is still active debate about the extent to which perception is an active process of hypothesis testing, analogous to science, or whether realistic sensory information is rich enough to make this process unnecessary.
Perception: In this step of the perception process, you perceive the stimulus object in the environment. It is at this point that you become consciously aware of the stimulus.
Recognition: Perception doesn't just involve becoming consciously aware of the stimuli. It is also necessary for the brain to categorize and interpret what you are sensing. The ability to interpret and give meaning to the object is the next step, known as recognition.
As an example, on pages 23 & 24 of the blue book The Bible Tells Me So, in the chapter Are You Limiting God?wierwille introduces an artifice of knowledge intended entice students into following his ideology:
".. . We frequently limit God in ourselves by our wrong believing, by accepting the knowledge that comes to us through our senses. Our reason says, 'That just cannot be,' and so we confess the negative, when all the time His spirit within us is crying out, 'Sufficiency in everything.'
We have been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to us through our five senses that we fail to recognize the knowledge that comes from the higher realm, the spiritual where the Word of God, and not reason, has first place. Both realms or worlds are here: the natural world is factual; the spiritual world is true.
As there are four kingdoms in this world, and one supersedes the other: the plant kingdom, animal kingdom, kingdom of man and the Kingdom of God; so, there is a natural world and a supernatural or spiritual world.
The natural world and everything in it comes to the mind through or by way of the natural senses. The truths of the spiritual world are absolutely not dependent upon the senses, but rather on the spirit from God in man."
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
In the above excerpt, wierwille forwards his unique idea of spiritualism “where the Word of God, and not reason, has first place”. I’ve heard a form of this countless times in wierwille’s live teachings – the essence of it is the subliminal message that wierwille’s interpretation of the Bible surpasses limited human logic – therefore trust wierwille rather than your own thinking.
You really know where your towel is. Watch out for Vogons.
I was in a philosophy class and the professor made the mistake of asking the class, "Haven't you ever wondered what the answer is to life, the universe, everything?"
Without even thinking three of us answered: "42!"
Don't panic. Mostly harmless.
Merry Xmas spotters!
Don’t forget your towel on your journey through the universe.
And dolphins are way more intelligent than trolls!
Have a great holiday with friends and family. And your peeps.
there shall be seven new students for the next class
Those numbers (so many for a tape class, so many for a film class) are further evidence it wasn't really "moving the word" that drove the process. If that was the case, they should have been happy to run the class for any number of students, even if it was only one. It didn't cost them anything to run a class. Those numbers were used as a sales incentive to motivate class recruiters to be more productive. "Well, if you sign up 10 people, we can reward you with a film class, but if you fall short, we can only let you have a tape class." Why would that arbitrary number make any difference outside of driving up the sales figures?
Those numbers (so many for a tape class, so many for a film class) are further evidence it wasn't really "moving the word" that drove the process. If that was the case, they should have been happy to run the class for any number of students, even if it was only one. It didn't cost them anything to run a class. Those numbers were used as a sales incentive to motivate class recruiters to be more productive. "Well, if you sign up 10 people, we can reward you with a film class, but if you fall short, we can only let you have a tape class." Why would that arbitrary number make any difference outside of driving up the sales figures?
All activity connected to pfal was organized to run at a profit.
It wasn't enough that people who stuck around would tithe 10% of their income. It wasn't enough that they would be leaned on to give more- thus the made-up term "abundant sharing". It wasn't enough that they would be leaned on to give everything left over so they had no money for emergencies, saving up for anything, chances to invest (or buy a car or a house with cash since buying either with a lease was being deprecated) - thus the made-up term "plurality giving." Outside of twi/ex-twi circles, has anyone heard of a "church" or supposed religious group that SAYS to give them ALL the money beyond what you absolutely need to live on? I haven't, and I don't think any of you have, either.
On top of that, the class itself was priced to pay for whatever books were included RETAIL. Since they were printed in-house, that's running at a profit. Plus, all the locations to run the class were donated by faithful twi'ers, so running an actual class was always done at a profit. Supposedly, the extra money was to cover the actual filming/recording. All of THAT was done in-house, and was covered pretty quickly because hundreds of copies of the films and tapes weren't being churned out, so the rest was all profit.
The actual filming of pfal was done to avoid costs, also. vpw rented a small studio, then bought the furniture for the class and had the signs made in-house. As soon as the class was done, vpw returned the furniture for a full refund, saying he wasn't satisfied with it. The truth was, he swindled them out of their rightful money and never planned to keep the furniture past the filming. Now, if that wasn't a warning sign, I don't know what is.
For that matter, hq was often run with the idea of getting the cheapest-priced item and making it work, even if that wasted a lot of effort. vpw used to buy used stuff from schools having auctions of old materials and so on, all just to save a few bucks, and this continued long after it would have been smart to invest in new machinery, decent furniture, etc. Only the things vpw handled personally were allowed to be new or good quality. (Unless you count the auditorium named after him, designed to be used for events on-grounds. It was smart to build such a facility, but all the frills were unnecessary.)
Those numbers were used as a sales incentive to motivate class recruiters to be more productive
When I was sent out out Lightbearers one year, no team (each consisting of about 3 or 4 pairs) got a class together - we had to get 7 people, and start a class, within two weeks, leaving the further running of the class to local believers, who were not allowed to be involved in the witnessing. Got back, no classes started, we all got threatened with being thrown out of the WC. But actually we got sent out again to different areas. Second time was a bit more fruitful (?).
Only good thing about this whole set-up was the escape from HQ for a couple of weeks.
122. Even the.name of the class is bait and switch. How much of the class is focused on how to achieve an abundant life and how much of the class is focused on Way doctrine?
122. Even the.name of the class is bait and switch. How much of the class is focused on how to achieve an abundant life and how much of the class is focused on Way doctrine?
Yeah some kind of wonky prosperity gospel. I mean if you’re going for prosperity gospel Joel has got better teeth more money and a “Christianity lite” approach that is appealing to the masses lol.
122. Even the.name of the class is bait and switch. How much of the class is focused on how to achieve an abundant life and how much of the class is focused on Way doctrine?
Interesting . . . When I look at PFAL I see Power first. The rest is fluff, IMO. I feel there is talk of abundant life in Way "Doctrine" put there is much more talk about Power. It's essentially children's playful imagination at being superheroes. I have power because I can imagine it.
I would consider any get-rich-quick scheme a fantasy daydream for entertaining the lazy, though.
Yeah some kind of wonky prosperity gospel. I mean if you’re going for prosperity gospel Joel has got better teeth more money and a “Christianity lite” approach that is appealing to the masses lol.
The opening session mentions the prosperity gospel, and dangles that as a teaser. After that, we got the Word-Faith stuff, then both are left behind- which is smart because twi can't actually deliver on either, so the sooner they change the subject, the better for them.
The opening session mentions the prosperity gospel, and dangles that as a teaser. After that, we got the Word-Faith stuff, then both are left behind- which is smart because twi can't actually deliver on either, so the sooner they change the subject, the better for them.
Yeah a few logic leaps from there and you get to the destination - happy platitudes singing “we all live in a yellow submarine” or “I’m a leaf on a mighty tree”.
Yeah a few logic leaps from there and you get to the destination - happy platitudes singing “we all live in a yellow submarine” or “I’m a leaf on a mighty tree”.
Roll away roll away roll away!!!! Every burden on your roll away!!!
34. Encourages an us-versus-them mindset - great for fortifying groupthink and isolation. “I have no friends when it comes to the Word.”
Harmful and controlling cults isolate followers from society…physically or at least psychologically. I grew up in NY and when I go t involved with TWI, I signed up for their missionary program, WOW, soon after I graduated from PFAL…I was assigned to Washington DC along with 27 other adventurous souls. Moving to a new location with a bunch of strangers might sound crazy to older folks, but I was 22 sort of a free-spirited type with some wanderlust to boot…but still that separation from friends and family can have an impact on one’s well-being.
When experts study isolation’s causes and impacts, they distinguish between social isolation and loneliness.
Social isolation is an objective lack of social relationships or infrequency of social contact. Loneliness is a subjective feeling of isolation. A person can be socially isolated but not feel lonely. A person can also feel lonely when they are surrounded by people.
Nonetheless, isolation and loneliness are very much linked. Studies of loneliness’s causes, symptoms, and impacts shed light on the potential negative effects of social isolation.
Mental and physical health are interconnected. Social isolation’s adverse health consequences range from sleeplessness to reduced immune function. Loneliness is associated with higher anxiety, depression, and suicide rates. Isolation and loneliness are also linked to poor cardiovascular health and cognitive function, confused thinking, delusions or hallucinations, excessive feelings of anger or fear, extreme swings in emotion, inability to cope with daily problems, major changes in eating or sleeping patterns.
After I went WOW, I got married, and eventually we decided to go into the way corps program…The isolation process is amped up! We never got to watch TV or keep up on what’s happening in the news and had one “self-structure day” a week to leave the campus and run errands, etc.…. There was a demand for ‘spiritual purity’; when I first arrived for in-residence training there were posters plastered all over the place that read, “the world out…The Word in”…
The purpose is manipulative - those who control the information control the person. Isolation tends to foster an “us versus them” mentality – we who are in isolation versus the outside world.
I believe I subconsciously used this thought pattern to feel more at ease. But reflecting on that now – I believe it often caused me to make decisions based on subconscious discrimination instead of leaving room for understanding and growth. It allowed me to make quick mental shortcuts. It is easier to make snap decisions based on what I already assume about “them” (anyone outside the way corps) rather than spending time to know one of “them”…the seclusion of the way corps training program was designed to instill in us a rapid litmus test procedure – depending on how quickly one could assess someone or some group lining up with TWI’s ideology would result in either favoritism or ostracism.
Information from outside TWI is considered worldly or evil, especially if it opposes TWI’s ideology. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only the information supplied by TWI is true.
TWI usually labeled any information against it as “persecution”, “lies” or “fiery darts of the wicked” … and we were taught to not even entertain the thought that the information could be true – or we could be deceived – tricked by the Devil! Yikes!
Common sense will tell you if you do not consider all the available information, you're more likely to make an unbalanced or uninformed decision. However, TWI filtered information - or tried to discredit it- not on the basis of how true it is, but rather on the basis of how it supports or detracts from their ideology.
From my own experience, I’ve come to learn that TWI-followers tend to hide their true thoughts and feelings, and instead wear a mask which presents them as a good TWI-follower. This too is a kind of further isolation – a separation of your authentic-self from your adaptive-self. Others in the group only get to interact with your adaptive-self- - and you are interacting with their adaptive-selves. One tends to discredit their own thoughts and feelings as something unimportant, five senses oriented, worldly, etc.
This “TWI-mask” is a defense against being reported to leadership and being punished for not measuring up to TWI-standards…This becomes a false-front - a façade that gives the appearance of a more positive picture. We were trained not only to deceive outsiders, but also our own followers...and of course ourselves. Rarely did close friendships form…and if they did, TWI-leadership usually saw them as a threat and would separate those people away from each other by different corps assignments. Any type of relationship – friend…spouse…family…social that had the potential to be more powerful and influential in terms of weakening one’s allegiance to the group and its leaders tends to be viewed as a potential threat.
I believe that was one of the reasons for isolation in the way corps program. We were physically isolated from friends and family who might otherwise provide a reality check – besides being cut off from outside information, newspapers, books, TV (when I was in there was no internet ) – all this ensured that the only reality the way corps gets to experience is the one presented by the way corps program…The isolation process made us dependent and obedient…
Even after the in-residence training is over, upper TWI-leadership continues to intrude…micromanage…meddle…with one’s relationships with friends and family. If top leadership doesn’t sense adequate zeal and loyalty on your part – you could be at risk of verbal attacks, public face-melting, face a strenuous private interrogation – or even the threat of expulsion. Unless you’ve been through the way corps program – you have no idea of what utter despair, hopelessness and fear of expulsion can do to your psyche – even willing to compromise convictions and give up any freedoms in order to stay in good graces with top leadership and enjoy the comfort of the elite social system of the way corps.
...I found that even after finishing the in-residence part of the program many of those “insulating” attitudes persisted. I felt a sentiment in myself and other way corps that we were the spiritually elite, serving on the front lines – and with that there were also a lot of negative stereotyping of outsiders and people who disagreed with TWI-leadership. I had such a cavalier attitude about keeping up with current events or anything happening in the world – figuring I would always be ahead of the game by relying on what TWI-leadership had to say about something or maybe in a worst-case scenario even God himself would have to show me what’s going on.
~ ~ ~ ~
Enough about separation, groupthink, isolation, us-versus-them, and being expected to cut ties to old friends because of religious dogma…it’s silly to sacrifice real relationships for contrived interactions…
…why not reach out to old friends today!
just wanted to end on a light note with that picture - - seriously though call an old friend...reconnect
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penworks
VPW's statement that the Bible interprets itself is nonsense. The act of interpretation of any text is done by the reader of the text. People interpret what they read. They are the ones who give it me
waysider
And in doing so, he was violating his own "To Whom it is Written" rule.
Charity
What I see in what you wrote Chockfull is that we were meant to have a relationship with the class - you know the one that replaced our relationship with Christ. It was our lord in that it had power,
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Nathan_Jr
The foolish fool said with his mouth, "Lo Shanta."
Let Snowball Pete interpret.
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WordWolf
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WordWolf
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chockfull
Reason 117. Don Quixote
It causes you to construct windmill battles in your mind like Don here above.
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T-Bone
118. to inflame desire but provide no means of satisfaction is not only deceptive – it’s frustrating
Do you remember the claims on the back of the PFAL signup card? Makes life meaningful…enables you to separate truth from error…develops more harmony in the home…disciplines the mind by believing…teaches how to pray effectually
Reason # 118 of why PFAL sucks is also why the whole enchilada – The Way International sucks. In talk about all they have to offer - and it's practically stated as a guarantee (depending on your believing, of course
) in their classes, books, events, doctrines, programs - there is always such hype…such promise – but ultimately no delivery. For a supposedly Christian organization, The Way International might be one of the least favorable environmental conditions under which a Christian can grow – and for one’s cognitive skills to survive.
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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T-Bone
119. Presents an illusion of knowledge that often dissuades a student from looking any further.
In PFAL wierwille uses skewed methods to organize and interpret information. This tenuous paradigm first introduced in PFAL continues to dull cognitive skills. Even for years after taking the Power For Abundant Living class for the first time, the flimsy framework is periodically shored up by repeating PFAL class and other classes and programs – everything is founded on the tenets of PFAL.
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.” – Steven Hawking
Let’s get nerdy for a minute about some terms
Cognitive skills: these intellectual functions are mental skills used in acquiring knowledge, manipulating information, reasoning, and problem-solving. Cognitive skills can be considered a person’s tools for learning.
Understanding: has a variety of definitions: the ability to learn, judge, make decisions, etc.; intelligence or sense, the faculty of reason, personal opinion or interpretation of a subject.
Metacognition is an awareness of one's thought processes and an understanding of the patterns behind them. The term comes from the root word meta, meaning "beyond", or "on top of".[1] Metacognition can take many forms, such as reflecting on one's ways of thinking and knowing when and how to use particular strategies for problem-solving.
And while we’re talking shop – here’s some excerpts from a Psychology Today article:
This brings us to the second question: what behaviors are motivated by the feeling of understanding…researchers feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete. What did this feeling motivate researchers to do? Continue to attempt and build their understanding per se. In the cases where researchers lack the feeling that their understanding per se was incomplete, they seem to do one thing: stop.
That is to say that reaching a feeling of understanding appears to act as a stopping rule for learning. That people stop investing in learning when they feel they understand is likely what Hawkins was hinting at in his quote. The feeling of understanding is the enemy of knowledge because it motivates you to stop acquiring the stuff. It might even motivate you to begin to share that information with others, opting to speak on a topic, rather than defer to who you perceive to be an expert…
…Understanding…is to be distinguished from the feeling of understanding. While understanding…refers to the actual connections among your mental representations, the feeling of understanding refers to your mental representations about the state of those other mental representations. The feeling of understanding, then, is a bit of a metacognitive sensation; your thinking about your thinking.
Much like understanding per se, the feeling of understanding comes in varying degrees: one can feel as if they don’t understand something at all through feeling as if they understand it completely, and anything in between. With this distinction made, we can begin to start considering some profitable questions: what is the connection between understanding per se and the feeling of understanding? What behaviors are encouraged by the feeling of understanding? What functional outcome(s) are those behaviors aimed at achieving? Given these functional outcomes, what predictions can we draw about how people experiencing various degrees of feeling as if they understand something will react to certain contexts?
A good explanation needs to focus on some outcome of a behavior; some plausible function of that outcome that can account for the emotion or feeling itself. This is notably easier in some cases than others: hunger motivates people to seek out and consume food avoiding starvation; fear motivates people to escape from or avoid threatening situations, avoiding danger; guilt motivates people to make amends and repair relationships towards wronged parties, avoiding condemnation and punishment while reaping the benefits of social interaction. Recently, I found myself posing that functional question about a feeling that is not often discussed: understanding.
From: Understanding Understanding | Psychology Today
End of excerpts
~ ~ ~ ~
From my own experience I can attest to the realities in the Psychology Today article. I decided to make PFAL the touchstone for truth. The tenets of PFAL was the criterion by which I sorted out truth from error. The false confidence of having superior knowledge ( an ace up the sleeve for any Gnostic ) was probably a big factor in me being driven to share it with others.
~ ~ ~ ~
I believe that everyone is trying to figure out what life is all about. For all intents and purposes that makes us all amateur philosophers.
We live…we strive to understand:
…philosophy is not only important to questions of how we should conduct our lives. Human beings are thinking creatures, for whom pure understanding is an end in itself. Finding out about the origin of the universe, or about the nature of conscientiousness, may make no difference in the way we behave, but it would run counter to human nature not to pursue such questions…
…philosophy is needed whenever we are faced by questions that are not only important but also intellectually perplexing…There are plenty of big unanswered questions in science…these questions lack answers only because we haven’t yet amassed enough empirical evidence to reach a conclusion.
Philosophical questions raise a different kind of difficulty. When we ask whether humans have free will…our puzzlement is not just due to a lack of information. Rather the questions themselves are confusing. To make progress we need to scrutinize the very terms…that are used to pose the issues.
From the introduction of Philosophy: Theories and Great Thinkers by David Papineau (goodreads.com)
~ ~ ~ ~
The long and the short of it is, our experiences shape our understanding…our perception:
Perception (from Latin perceptio 'gathering, receiving') is the organization, identification, and interpretation of sensory information in order to represent and understand the presented information or environment. All perception involves signals that go through the nervous system, which in turn result from physical or chemical stimulation of the sensory system. Vision involves light striking the retina of the eye; smell is mediated by odor molecules; and hearing involves pressure waves.
Perception is not only the passive receipt of these signals, but it is also shaped by the recipient's learning, memory, expectation, and attention. Sensory input is a process that transforms this low-level information to higher-level information (e.g., extracts shapes for object recognition). The process that follows connects a person's concepts and expectations (or knowledge), restorative and selective mechanisms (such as attention) that influence perception.
Although people traditionally viewed the senses as passive receptors, the study of illusions and ambiguous images has demonstrated that the brain's perceptual systems actively and pre-consciously attempt to make sense of their input.[4] There is still active debate about the extent to which perception is an active process of hypothesis testing, analogous to science, or whether realistic sensory information is rich enough to make this process unnecessary.
Perception: In this step of the perception process, you perceive the stimulus object in the environment. It is at this point that you become consciously aware of the stimulus.
Recognition: Perception doesn't just involve becoming consciously aware of the stimuli. It is also necessary for the brain to categorize and interpret what you are sensing. The ability to interpret and give meaning to the object is the next step, known as recognition.
From: Perception - Wikipedia
Remember all the things that parents would say stunts your growth? Well, I'm here to tell you PFAL will for sure !
See also:
Understanding Understanding | Psychology Today
Perception | Definition, Process, Examples, Differences, & Facts | Britannica
Perception: The Sensory Experience of the World (verywellmind.com)
Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia
Cognitive distortion - Wikipedia
50 Common Cognitive Distortions | Psychology Today
~ ~ ~ ~
As an example, on pages 23 & 24 of the blue book The Bible Tells Me So, in the chapter Are You Limiting God? wierwille introduces an artifice of knowledge intended entice students into following his ideology:
".. . We frequently limit God in ourselves by our wrong believing, by accepting the knowledge that comes to us through our senses. Our reason says, 'That just cannot be,' and so we confess the negative, when all the time His spirit within us is crying out, 'Sufficiency in everything.'
We have been so schooled to revere the knowledge that comes to us through our five senses that we fail to recognize the knowledge that comes from the higher realm, the spiritual where the Word of God, and not reason, has first place. Both realms or worlds are here: the natural world is factual; the spiritual world is true.
As there are four kingdoms in this world, and one supersedes the other: the plant kingdom, animal kingdom, kingdom of man and the Kingdom of God; so, there is a natural world and a supernatural or spiritual world.
The natural world and everything in it comes to the mind through or by way of the natural senses. The truths of the spiritual world are absolutely not dependent upon the senses, but rather on the spirit from God in man."
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
In the above excerpt, wierwille forwards his unique idea of spiritualism “where the Word of God, and not reason, has first place”. I’ve heard a form of this countless times in wierwille’s live teachings – the essence of it is the subliminal message that wierwille’s interpretation of the Bible surpasses limited human logic – therefore trust wierwille rather than your own thinking.
That’s all for now, folks
Edited by T-Bonerevision
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chockfull
Merry Xmas spotters!
Don’t forget your towel on your journey through the universe.
And dolphins are way more intelligent than trolls!
Have a great holiday with friends and family. And your peeps.
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chockfull
120. “But they aren’t witnessing Christ, they are witnessing ‘The Class’”.
Dr John Juedes
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T-Bone
And these sign-ups shall follow those that believe PFAL: there shall be seven new students for the next class
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waysider
Those numbers (so many for a tape class, so many for a film class) are further evidence it wasn't really "moving the word" that drove the process. If that was the case, they should have been happy to run the class for any number of students, even if it was only one. It didn't cost them anything to run a class. Those numbers were used as a sales incentive to motivate class recruiters to be more productive. "Well, if you sign up 10 people, we can reward you with a film class, but if you fall short, we can only let you have a tape class." Why would that arbitrary number make any difference outside of driving up the sales figures?
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Nathan_Jr
A. Always
B. Be
C. Closing
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WordWolf
All activity connected to pfal was organized to run at a profit.
It wasn't enough that people who stuck around would tithe 10% of their income. It wasn't enough that they would be leaned on to give more- thus the made-up term "abundant sharing". It wasn't enough that they would be leaned on to give everything left over so they had no money for emergencies, saving up for anything, chances to invest (or buy a car or a house with cash since buying either with a lease was being deprecated) - thus the made-up term "plurality giving." Outside of twi/ex-twi circles, has anyone heard of a "church" or supposed religious group that SAYS to give them ALL the money beyond what you absolutely need to live on? I haven't, and I don't think any of you have, either.
On top of that, the class itself was priced to pay for whatever books were included RETAIL. Since they were printed in-house, that's running at a profit. Plus, all the locations to run the class were donated by faithful twi'ers, so running an actual class was always done at a profit. Supposedly, the extra money was to cover the actual filming/recording. All of THAT was done in-house, and was covered pretty quickly because hundreds of copies of the films and tapes weren't being churned out, so the rest was all profit.
The actual filming of pfal was done to avoid costs, also. vpw rented a small studio, then bought the furniture for the class and had the signs made in-house. As soon as the class was done, vpw returned the furniture for a full refund, saying he wasn't satisfied with it. The truth was, he swindled them out of their rightful money and never planned to keep the furniture past the filming. Now, if that wasn't a warning sign, I don't know what is.
For that matter, hq was often run with the idea of getting the cheapest-priced item and making it work, even if that wasted a lot of effort. vpw used to buy used stuff from schools having auctions of old materials and so on, all just to save a few bucks, and this continued long after it would have been smart to invest in new machinery, decent furniture, etc. Only the things vpw handled personally were allowed to be new or good quality. (Unless you count the auditorium named after him, designed to be used for events on-grounds. It was smart to build such a facility, but all the frills were unnecessary.)
Edited by WordWolf.
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Twinky
I've heard this said before, but where is the information or evidence, WW? You weren't there at the time; who reported it?
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Twinky
When I was sent out out Lightbearers one year, no team (each consisting of about 3 or 4 pairs) got a class together - we had to get 7 people, and start a class, within two weeks, leaving the further running of the class to local believers, who were not allowed to be involved in the witnessing. Got back, no classes started, we all got threatened with being thrown out of the WC. But actually we got sent out again to different areas. Second time was a bit more fruitful (?).
Only good thing about this whole set-up was the escape from HQ for a couple of weeks.
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So_crates
121. The class is set up to, not teach you how to serve God, but how to serve Saint Vic and The Way.
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So_crates
122. Even the.name of the class is bait and switch. How much of the class is focused on how to achieve an abundant life and how much of the class is focused on Way doctrine?
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chockfull
Yeah some kind of wonky prosperity gospel. I mean if you’re going for prosperity gospel Joel has got better teeth more money and a “Christianity lite” approach that is appealing to the masses lol.
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Bolshevik
Interesting . . . When I look at PFAL I see Power first. The rest is fluff, IMO. I feel there is talk of abundant life in Way "Doctrine" put there is much more talk about Power. It's essentially children's playful imagination at being superheroes. I have power because I can imagine it.
I would consider any get-rich-quick scheme a fantasy daydream for entertaining the lazy, though.
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WordWolf
IIRC, Ralph D.
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WordWolf
The opening session mentions the prosperity gospel, and dangles that as a teaser. After that, we got the Word-Faith stuff, then both are left behind- which is smart because twi can't actually deliver on either, so the sooner they change the subject, the better for them.
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chockfull
Yeah a few logic leaps from there and you get to the destination - happy platitudes singing “we all live in a yellow submarine” or “I’m a leaf on a mighty tree”.
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OldSkool
Roll away roll away roll away!!!! Every burden on your roll away!!!
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T-Bone
123. gives one the power to make other people feel stupid
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T-Bone
Harmful and controlling cults isolate followers from society…physically or at least psychologically. I grew up in NY and when I go t involved with TWI, I signed up for their missionary program, WOW, soon after I graduated from PFAL…I was assigned to Washington DC along with 27 other adventurous souls. Moving to a new location with a bunch of strangers might sound crazy to older folks, but I was 22 sort of a free-spirited type with some wanderlust to boot…but still that separation from friends and family can have an impact on one’s well-being.
When experts study isolation’s causes and impacts, they distinguish between social isolation and loneliness.
Social isolation is an objective lack of social relationships or infrequency of social contact. Loneliness is a subjective feeling of isolation. A person can be socially isolated but not feel lonely. A person can also feel lonely when they are surrounded by people.
Nonetheless, isolation and loneliness are very much linked. Studies of loneliness’s causes, symptoms, and impacts shed light on the potential negative effects of social isolation.
Mental and physical health are interconnected. Social isolation’s adverse health consequences range from sleeplessness to reduced immune function. Loneliness is associated with higher anxiety, depression, and suicide rates. Isolation and loneliness are also linked to poor cardiovascular health and cognitive function, confused thinking, delusions or hallucinations, excessive feelings of anger or fear, extreme swings in emotion, inability to cope with daily problems, major changes in eating or sleeping patterns.
From: Understanding the Effects of Social Isolation on Mental Health (tulane.edu)
~ ~ ~ ~
After I went WOW, I got married, and eventually we decided to go into the way corps program…The isolation process is amped up! We never got to watch TV or keep up on what’s happening in the news and had one “self-structure day” a week to leave the campus and run errands, etc.…. There was a demand for ‘spiritual purity’; when I first arrived for in-residence training there were posters plastered all over the place that read, “the world out…The Word in”…
The purpose is manipulative - those who control the information control the person. Isolation tends to foster an “us versus them” mentality – we who are in isolation versus the outside world.
I believe I subconsciously used this thought pattern to feel more at ease. But reflecting on that now – I believe it often caused me to make decisions based on subconscious discrimination instead of leaving room for understanding and growth. It allowed me to make quick mental shortcuts. It is easier to make snap decisions based on what I already assume about “them” (anyone outside the way corps) rather than spending time to know one of “them”…the seclusion of the way corps training program was designed to instill in us a rapid litmus test procedure – depending on how quickly one could assess someone or some group lining up with TWI’s ideology would result in either favoritism or ostracism.
Information from outside TWI is considered worldly or evil, especially if it opposes TWI’s ideology. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only the information supplied by TWI is true.
TWI usually labeled any information against it as “persecution”, “lies” or “fiery darts of the wicked” … and we were taught to not even entertain the thought that the information could be true – or we could be deceived – tricked by the Devil! Yikes!
Common sense will tell you if you do not consider all the available information, you're more likely to make an unbalanced or uninformed decision. However, TWI filtered information - or tried to discredit it- not on the basis of how true it is, but rather on the basis of how it supports or detracts from their ideology.
From my own experience, I’ve come to learn that TWI-followers tend to hide their true thoughts and feelings, and instead wear a mask which presents them as a good TWI-follower. This too is a kind of further isolation – a separation of your authentic-self from your adaptive-self. Others in the group only get to interact with your adaptive-self - - and you are interacting with their adaptive-selves. One tends to discredit their own thoughts and feelings as something unimportant, five senses oriented, worldly, etc.
This “TWI-mask” is a defense against being reported to leadership and being punished for not measuring up to TWI-standards…This becomes a false-front - a façade that gives the appearance of a more positive picture. We were trained not only to deceive outsiders, but also our own followers...and of course ourselves. Rarely did close friendships form…and if they did, TWI-leadership usually saw them as a threat and would separate those people away from each other by different corps assignments. Any type of relationship – friend…spouse…family…social that had the potential to be more powerful and influential in terms of weakening one’s allegiance to the group and its leaders tends to be viewed as a potential threat.
I believe that was one of the reasons for isolation in the way corps program. We were physically isolated from friends and family who might otherwise provide a reality check – besides being cut off from outside information, newspapers, books, TV (when I was in there was no internet ) – all this ensured that the only reality the way corps gets to experience is the one presented by the way corps program…The isolation process made us dependent and obedient…
Even after the in-residence training is over, upper TWI-leadership continues to intrude…micromanage…meddle…with one’s relationships with friends and family. If top leadership doesn’t sense adequate zeal and loyalty on your part – you could be at risk of verbal attacks, public face-melting, face a strenuous private interrogation – or even the threat of expulsion. Unless you’ve been through the way corps program – you have no idea of what utter despair, hopelessness and fear of expulsion can do to your psyche – even willing to compromise convictions and give up any freedoms in order to stay in good graces with top leadership and enjoy the comfort of the elite social system of the way corps.
...I found that even after finishing the in-residence part of the program many of those “insulating” attitudes persisted. I felt a sentiment in myself and other way corps that we were the spiritually elite, serving on the front lines – and with that there were also a lot of negative stereotyping of outsiders and people who disagreed with TWI-leadership. I had such a cavalier attitude about keeping up with current events or anything happening in the world – figuring I would always be ahead of the game by relying on what TWI-leadership had to say about something or maybe in a worst-case scenario even God himself would have to show me what’s going on.
~ ~ ~ ~
Enough about separation, groupthink, isolation, us-versus-them, and being expected to cut ties to old friends because of religious dogma…it’s silly to sacrifice real relationships for contrived interactions…
…why not reach out to old friends today!
just wanted to end on a light note with that picture -
- seriously though call an old friend...reconnect
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