36. The eye cannot say to the hand I don’t need you and the head cannot say to the feet I don’t need you 1 Cor 12:21
Yet 100% of PFAL graduates move directly from the class into living in this doctrinal and practical error.
Why? Because their Bible has interpreted itself to indicate there is this extra special group called the household that is an inner Pharisee sanctum within the body of Christ that the verse is talking about.
Print that in a collateral
I can agree that "household" got out of hand, and/or under-taught. Not so sure if it is in the film class, though. I can check.
Hey! I forget things from the class too! I need review also.
It may be in the collaterals, but not made a big deal of, like it was in the TVTs. There was a LOT of household talk in the TVTs.(TVT = Twi Verbal Tradition)
As far as “Yet 100% of PFAL graduates move directly from the class into living in this doctrinal and practical error.” …… I would say that would depend on the year and the area and the local leadership.
In years after 1986, all bets are off.I heard lots of "household" talk that was terrible. All kinds of crazy things went on in TWI for years after the big meltdown in 1986-90. I heard it got even crazier in the last years of Craig.
But before 1982, when the Corps and Craig started seriously taking over, the “100% of PFAL graduates move directly from the class into living in this doctrinal and practical error” would be something I would hotly contest.
We non-Corps hardly heard the word household then. All that came later.
*/*/*/*/*
This following question could count as an entry in a challenge-list someone presented me with today. This could be one of the items everyone forgot or never absorbed in the first go-around.
There was ANOTHER special group (within the household even) that we were warned about in one collateral chapter in GMWD called "ecclesiastical bodies."
Does anyone here recognize that phrase?
Here is how we saw it and forgot it, or glossed over it:
GMWD p. 172 “When the first century believers stopped walking in the light of the great mystery, as the epistle to the Ephesians unfolds it so fully, they lost the power which comes with understanding the mystery which is the center of all true Christian faith, the one Body of Christ. “The immediate consequence of the loss of this truth brought about many erroneous doctrines. It initiated the different so-called “bodies,” consequently causing many divisions and schisms within the Church. Instead of rightly dividing the Word of Truth and recognizing the one Body which God made, as disclosed in Ephesians 4:4, men established their own ecclesiastical bodies and sects.”
I always thought it odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way Corps.
You must have missed the post where I said I was like a groupie there.
You also missed the main point: "...it was just a group of folks (superstar brain scientists) getting together..."
If you ever get the chance to be a mere tag-along groupie with the world's top brain scientists, I would strongly suggest you jump on such a great learning experience.
Nah...I didn't miss anything, not even you trying to cover your tracks after you were called on the carpet for embellishing your story like you did. You wouldn't have said another word about it if nobody had said anything. Just like wierwille you lead people to believe that you are/were MORE than what you are/were and you do it in such a way that gives you (at least inyour own mind) plausible deniability.
I don't mean expound on them, I mean simply list them as such:
1.)
2.)
3.)
Gee wizz, I forget most of them from 15 and 20 years ago. They are in the archive, most of them; some got pruned. I just did one from GMWD p 172 a few minutes ago.
There also were a couple just weeks ago.
Do you remember the quiz I gave in the Absent Christ thread that no one had the answer to? I think it was on the benefits of an absent Christ.
There was another quiz everybody flunked in the NT Canon thread about the spelling of Llamsa, … er, …ah, I mean, about the odd words that shouldn’t be in Lamsa’s Eli Eli verse.
What about the citation for confabulation being fundamental? Any papers I can read? Lectures or discussions I can listen to?
Also, please list, briefly, three things forgotten. Answer Waysider's question.
You would think after 7 years for two hours a week. I mean let's say Mike's informal group only met while school was in session. Typical college semester is 10 to 15 weeks. So let's just run an average of 30 weeks a years they met out of 52. So thats 60 hours of meetings each year for 7 years...lets'call it 420 hours total....a truly appreciable number in come circles..I digress....so of 420 or so hours with the worlds top neuroscientists mike can produce .... nothing!
GMWD p. 172 “When the first century believers stopped walking in the light of the great mystery, as the epistle to the Ephesians unfolds it so fully, they lost the power which comes with understanding the mystery which is the center of all true Christian faith, the one Body of Christ. “The immediate consequence of the loss of this truth brought about many erroneous doctrines. It initiated the different so-called “bodies,” consequently causing many divisions and schisms within the Church. Instead of rightly dividing the Word of Truth and recognizing the one Body which God made, as disclosed in Ephesians 4:4, men established their own ecclesiastical bodies and sects.”
I always thought it odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way Corps.
Nearly there, Mike. But it's actually "odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way MINISTRY. " (Ministry should be in " ".)
That's if one dare call TWI an "ecclesiastical bodt."
You would think after 7 years for two hours a week. I mean let's say Mike's informal group only met while school was in session. Typical college semester is 10 to 15 weeks. So let's just run an average of 30 weeks a years they met out of 52. So thats 60 hours of meetings each year for 7 years...lets'call it 420 hours total....a truly appreciable number in come circles..I digress....so of 420 or so hours with the worlds top neuroscientists mike can produce .... nothing!
My very first post here in 2002 was about a paper I did for them on confabulation in normals.
I somewhat duplicated that report in another thread in 2007.
I think I mentioned this to someone yesterday.
I also mentioned here some of the things I learned, such as synaptic pruning, a very exciting subject.
Gee wizz, I forget most of them from 15 and 20 years ago. They are in the archive, most of them; some got pruned. I just did one from GMWD p 172 a few minutes ago.
There also were a couple just weeks ago.
Do you remember the quiz I gave in the Absent Christ thread that no one had the answer to? I think it was on the benefits of an absent Christ.
There was another quiz everybody flunked in the NT Canon thread about the spelling of Llamsa, … er, …ah, I mean, about the odd words that shouldn’t be in Lamsa’s Eli Eli verse.
Translation: I was just spouting off. I didn't expect you guys to call me on it. But, I'll make up something on the spot.
Mike, you have to be the worst salesman.
Next time do your homework before you make a claim.
I think we have it now, with these "grads" that Mike claims to be in contact with. And "witnessing" to.
He's led us to think that these are PFAL-class "grads." They're not. They're these college graduates that he associated with in this random community group.
And his witnessing is "once a year" - see his posts above - so perhaps once a year he emails them (maybe at Christmas or Easter?) en masse - or maybe sends a Christmas card - and slips in something about Christ not being born in December but Sept/October; or that Jesus was crucified with two others either side and not the traditional three (in actually, there were probably dozens crucified at the same time; that's the way the Romans terrorised the locals).
That would seem to encapsulate his MO so far, and might be the truth of what Mike's "outreach" activities are.
GMWD p. 172 “When the first century believers stopped walking in the light of the great mystery, as the epistle to the Ephesians unfolds it so fully, they lost the power which comes with understanding the mystery which is the center of all true Christian faith, the one Body of Christ. “The immediate consequence of the loss of this truth brought about many erroneous doctrines. It initiated the different so-called “bodies,” consequently causing many divisions and schisms within the Church. Instead of rightly dividing the Word of Truth and recognizing the one Body which God made, as disclosed in Ephesians 4:4, men established their own ecclesiastical bodies and sects.”
These couple of paragraphs are so full of bullshonta it's hard to know where to start. Who ever said the first century believer's STOPPED walking in the light of the great mystery? Wierwille? well of course he said that becuase how else could he come up with a package of material that hadn't been known since the first century if it hadn't been lost?
The erroneous doctrines started as soon as the letters were circulated and had NOTHING to do with first century believers not riding the Mystery Machine any longer. You don't know history. Gnostic sects in Alexandria started rewriting epsitles as soon as they got em and that's verifiable HISTORY.
No - nothing was lost. False prophets like wierwille came along with a lot of bullshonta is what happened though.
I can agree that "household" got out of hand, and/or under-taught.
No - the household didn't get out of hand. Wierwille and the trustees got out of hand - embezzling donations, sexually molesting young women, alcohol abuse, etc. What started with wierwille ended with Rosalie doing around a 20 years coverup. RICO case.
I don't mean expound on them, I mean simply list them as such:
1.)
2.)
3.)
21 minutes ago, Mike said:
Gee wizz, I forget most of them from 15 and 20 years ago. They are in the archive, most of them; some got pruned. I just did one from GMWD p 172 a few minutes ago.
There also were a couple just weeks ago.
Do you remember the quiz I gave in the Absent Christ thread that no one had the answer to? I think it was on the benefits of an absent Christ.
There was another quiz everybody flunked in the NT Canon thread about the spelling of Llamsa, … er, …ah, I mean, about the odd words that shouldn’t be in Lamsa’s Eli Eli verse
A couple of months ago, I was at the car dealership having my car serviced. I had my grandson, Cletus with me. (He's the ornery one.) As we waited, I glanced at some of the fancy new models in the showroom. One particular model caught my eye, so I took a closer look. (Cletus liked it, too.) A salesman approached me and said he would really like to make me a deal on a trade. I asked him if he could tell me a few reasons I should buy a car from his dealership. He said, "I told you all that 10 years ago, when you bought this one". Cletus whispered to me, "Golly, Grampa Waysider, I'm not so sure that feller really knows."
Edited by waysider Had to redact Cletus's middle name so he won't be recognized. (It's Clem.)
This following question could count as an entry in a challenge-list someone presented me with today. This could be one of the items everyone forgot or never absorbed in the first go-around.
There was ANOTHER special group (within the household even) that we were warned about in one collateral chapter in GMWD called "ecclesiastical bodies."
Does anyone here recognize that phrase?
Here is how we saw it and forgot it, or glossed over it:
GMWD p. 172 “When the first century believers stopped walking in the light of the great mystery, as the epistle to the Ephesians unfolds it so fully, they lost the power which comes with understanding the mystery which is the center of all true Christian faith, the one Body of Christ. “The immediate consequence of the loss of this truth brought about many erroneous doctrines. It initiated the different so-called “bodies,” consequently causing many divisions and schisms within the Church. Instead of rightly dividing the Word of Truth and recognizing the one Body which God made, as disclosed in Ephesians 4:4, men established their own ecclesiastical bodies and sects.”
I always thought it odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way Corps.
M: never absorbed
T:poor choice of words there
M: I always thought it odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way Corps.
T: "ecclesiastical" = relating to the clergy of the Christian Church
you do remember it was wierwille who set up the ordination protocols for clergy - you do remember that don't you?
That gives a little bit on it. This man, Robert Hecht-Nielsen, was one of the guest speakers at the UCSD group I attended. He was involved in the first A.I. machines that could read human hand-writing. Every Post Office has one now.
After his talk I visited him at his office one day and we talked about confabulation. Years later he published on it, and we e-mailed about it more. He liked my work on confabulation, but I don't think he used it.
That gives a little bit on it. This man, Robert Hecht-Nielsen, was one of the guest speakers at the UCSD group I attended. He was involved in the first A.I. machines that could read human hand-writing. Every Post Office has one now.
After his talk I visited him at his office one day and we talked about confabulation. Years later he published on it, and we e-mailed about it more. He liked my work on confabulation, but I don't think he used it.
Does this article assert the claim that confabulation is fundamental?
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penworks
VPW's statement that the Bible interprets itself is nonsense. The act of interpretation of any text is done by the reader of the text. People interpret what they read. They are the ones who give it me
waysider
And in doing so, he was violating his own "To Whom it is Written" rule.
Charity
What I see in what you wrote Chockfull is that we were meant to have a relationship with the class - you know the one that replaced our relationship with Christ. It was our lord in that it had power,
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chockfull
38.
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Mike
I can agree that "household" got out of hand, and/or under-taught.
Not so sure if it is in the film class, though. I can check.
Hey! I forget things from the class too! I need review also.
It may be in the collaterals, but not made a big deal of, like it was in the TVTs. There was a LOT of household talk in the TVTs. (TVT = Twi Verbal Tradition)
As far as “Yet 100% of PFAL graduates move directly from the class into living in this doctrinal and practical error.” …… I would say that would depend on the year and the area and the local leadership.
In years after 1986, all bets are off. I heard lots of "household" talk that was terrible. All kinds of crazy things went on in TWI for years after the big meltdown in 1986-90. I heard it got even crazier in the last years of Craig.
But before 1982, when the Corps and Craig started seriously taking over, the “100% of PFAL graduates move directly from the class into living in this doctrinal and practical error” would be something I would hotly contest.
We non-Corps hardly heard the word household then. All that came later.
*/*/*/*/*
This following question could count as an entry in a challenge-list someone presented me with today. This could be one of the items everyone forgot or never absorbed in the first go-around.
There was ANOTHER special group (within the household even) that we were warned about in one collateral chapter in GMWD called "ecclesiastical bodies."
Does anyone here recognize that phrase?
Here is how we saw it and forgot it, or glossed over it:
GMWD p. 172
“When the first century believers stopped walking in the light of the great mystery, as the epistle to the Ephesians unfolds it so fully, they lost the power which comes with understanding the mystery which is the center of all true Christian faith, the one Body of Christ.
“The immediate consequence of the loss of this truth brought about many erroneous doctrines. It initiated the different so-called “bodies,” consequently causing many divisions and schisms within the Church. Instead of rightly dividing the Word of Truth and recognizing the one Body which God made, as disclosed in Ephesians 4:4, men established their own ecclesiastical bodies and sects.”
I always thought it odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way Corps.
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OldSkool
How in the eff and eff do you know a body soul person from someone with holy spirit? You giving out lo shonta tests or something?
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Nathan_Jr
What about the citation for confabulation being fundamental? Any papers I can read? Lectures or discussions I can listen to?
Also, please list, briefly, three things forgotten. Answer Waysider's question.
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OldSkool
Nah...I didn't miss anything, not even you trying to cover your tracks after you were called on the carpet for embellishing your story like you did. You wouldn't have said another word about it if nobody had said anything. Just like wierwille you lead people to believe that you are/were MORE than what you are/were and you do it in such a way that gives you (at least inyour own mind) plausible deniability.
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
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Mike
Gee wizz, I forget most of them from 15 and 20 years ago. They are in the archive, most of them; some got pruned. I just did one from GMWD p 172 a few minutes ago.
There also were a couple just weeks ago.
Do you remember the quiz I gave in the Absent Christ thread that no one had the answer to? I think it was on the benefits of an absent Christ.
There was another quiz everybody flunked in the NT Canon thread about the
spelling of Llamsa, … er, …ah, I mean, about the odd words that shouldn’t be in Lamsa’s Eli Eli verse.Link to comment
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Nathan_Jr
This is my favorite phrase lately. Especially, in its original context.
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OldSkool
You would think after 7 years for two hours a week. I mean let's say Mike's informal group only met while school was in session. Typical college semester is 10 to 15 weeks. So let's just run an average of 30 weeks a years they met out of 52. So thats 60 hours of meetings each year for 7 years...lets'call it 420 hours total....a truly appreciable number in come circles..I digress....so of 420 or so hours with the worlds top neuroscientists mike can produce .... nothing!
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Twinky
Nearly there, Mike. But it's actually "odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way MINISTRY. " (Ministry should be in " ".)
That's if one dare call TWI an "ecclesiastical bodt."
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OldSkool
Why would anyone remember what you post. Not that you don't come up with some doozies.
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Mike
My very first post here in 2002 was about a paper I did for them on confabulation in normals.
I somewhat duplicated that report in another thread in 2007.
I think I mentioned this to someone yesterday.
I also mentioned here some of the things I learned, such as synaptic pruning, a very exciting subject.
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So_crates
Translation: I was just spouting off. I didn't expect you guys to call me on it. But, I'll make up something on the spot.
Mike, you have to be the worst salesman.
Next time do your homework before you make a claim.
Then you wonder why your credibility suffers.
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Twinky
I think we have it now, with these "grads" that Mike claims to be in contact with. And "witnessing" to.
He's led us to think that these are PFAL-class "grads." They're not. They're these college graduates that he associated with in this random community group.
And his witnessing is "once a year" - see his posts above - so perhaps once a year he emails them (maybe at Christmas or Easter?) en masse - or maybe sends a Christmas card - and slips in something about Christ not being born in December but Sept/October; or that Jesus was crucified with two others either side and not the traditional three (in actually, there were probably dozens crucified at the same time; that's the way the Romans terrorised the locals).
That would seem to encapsulate his MO so far, and might be the truth of what Mike's "outreach" activities are.
But Mike, do correct me if I'm wrong.
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Nathan_Jr
Where is the argument for confabulation being fundamental as proposed by a cognitive neuroscientist? A paper? A talk?
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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OldSkool
These couple of paragraphs are so full of bullshonta it's hard to know where to start. Who ever said the first century believer's STOPPED walking in the light of the great mystery? Wierwille? well of course he said that becuase how else could he come up with a package of material that hadn't been known since the first century if it hadn't been lost?
The erroneous doctrines started as soon as the letters were circulated and had NOTHING to do with first century believers not riding the Mystery Machine any longer. You don't know history. Gnostic sects in Alexandria started rewriting epsitles as soon as they got em and that's verifiable HISTORY.
No - nothing was lost. False prophets like wierwille came along with a lot of bullshonta is what happened though.
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OldSkool
Yeah...just like God marched all those super spiritual men to wierwille so he could learn what to teach...
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OldSkool
No - the household didn't get out of hand. Wierwille and the trustees got out of hand - embezzling donations, sexually molesting young women, alcohol abuse, etc. What started with wierwille ended with Rosalie doing around a 20 years coverup. RICO case.
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waysider
It's okay to just say "No".
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Rocky
Apparently, it's very difficult for particular people to just ignore Mike. Sigh...
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waysider
A couple of months ago, I was at the car dealership having my car serviced. I had my grandson, Cletus with me. (He's the ornery one.) As we waited, I glanced at some of the fancy new models in the showroom. One particular model caught my eye, so I took a closer look. (Cletus liked it, too.) A salesman approached me and said he would really like to make me a deal on a trade. I asked him if he could tell me a few reasons I should buy a car from his dealership. He said, "I told you all that 10 years ago, when you bought this one". Cletus whispered to me, "Golly, Grampa Waysider, I'm not so sure that feller really knows."
Edited by waysiderHad to redact Cletus's middle name so he won't be recognized. (It's Clem.)
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T-Bone
M: never absorbed
T: poor choice of words there
M: I always thought it odd that no one ever connected “ecclesiastical bodies” with the Way Corps.
T: "ecclesiastical" = relating to the clergy of the Christian Church
you do remember it was wierwille who set up the ordination protocols for clergy - you do remember that don't you?
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Mike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hecht-Nielsen
That gives a little bit on it. This man, Robert Hecht-Nielsen, was one of the guest speakers at the UCSD group I attended. He was involved in the first A.I. machines that could read human hand-writing. Every Post Office has one now.
After his talk I visited him at his office one day and we talked about confabulation. Years later he published on it, and we e-mailed about it more. He liked my work on confabulation, but I don't think he used it.
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Nathan_Jr
Does this article assert the claim that confabulation is fundamental?
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Mike
I just gave you 3. Didn't you see them?
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