I wish I studied this stuff more…from what little I remember of TWI’s teaching on this – it seemed a little muddy on which way to look at it – as far as what’s it in reference to faith or believing…what little I’ve looked into after I left – I don’t really get into if it’s talking about believing or faith…rather I try to figure out “the direction” of faith (I'm just using the idea of religious faith - and as a sidenote see how I understand commonplace believing and religious faith on another thread -here ....caution take with a grain of salt cuz I'm not 100 % sure of this ) whether it’s faith toward Christ or something we receive from Him…also not sure I understand the question- I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway .... we clear as mud, now? ok good!
but throwing caution to the wind I’ve got the verses you referenced below and interlinear of key verse and a couple of hyperlinks on subjective and objective genitive…what I got out of them is it’s determined by context – which requires some thought on the part of the reader to figure out which way it should go…maybe similar to what you said – it depends on a theological thought process (in other words, it's assumed the reader has a general idea of the key concepts as addressed in all Scriptures on the same topic) ...anyway…here tis:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3: 21-26
(to navigate forward a verse or backward to previous verse on Bible Hub interlinear - just click on the left or right arrows)
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15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So, we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:15, 16
Subjective and Objective Genitive. Nouns that express verbal notions, often nouns made from verbs and verbals, may indicate who the subject or the object, or both, of the verbal notion is by placing them in the genitive. Sometimes the verbal relationship is not immediately apparent. Consider: severitatis invidiae = "hatred that arises from your severeness" or, more obviously an objective genitive: "hatred of your severeness." There is no difference in form between the subjective and the objective genitive. Only context can make a final determination. However, there are norms. First, word order: the objective genitive usually comes first. This is only a guide, however, since word order may always be changed for emphasis. Second, adjectival forms are preferred for the subjective genitive, presumably because the subject of an action modifies the action more directly than the object. Consider even the English: "my love for you." Here the possessive pronoun, "my," indicates who is the subject of the (hidden) verb "love": "I love you." Similarly, "divine love" specifies the God or gods as the one(s) who love.
The difference between the subjective and objective genitive is important for languages, like Greek and Latin, in which the genitive or possessive case has multiple functions. But although little attention is paid to it in a language like English which has lost its nominal cases, this distinction is highly important also in it. The objective genitive answers the question ‘of what?’ For example, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as an objective genitive, answers the question, ‘the experience of what?’. Here the child is the object of the experience. The subjective genitive, on the other hand, answers the question ‘whose?’, ‘belonging to whom?’ Hence, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as a subjective genitive, answers the question, ‘experience of whom?’, ‘whose experience?’ Here the child is the subject of the experience.
I wish I studied this stuff more…from what little I remember of TWI’s teaching on this – it seemed a little muddy on which way to look at it – as far as what’s it in reference to faith or believing…what little I’ve looked into after I left – I don’t really get into if it’s talking about believing or faith…rather I try to figure out “the direction” of faith (just using the common idea of religious faith- I shared a brief idea of have of commonplace believing and religious faith on another thread -here ) whether it’s faith toward Christ or coming from Christ…also not sure I understand the question-
but throwing caution to the wind I’ve got the verses you referenced below and interlinear of key verse and a couple of hyperlinks on subjective and objective genitive…what I got out them is it’s determined by context – which requires some thought on the part of the read to figure out which way it should go…maybe similar to what you said – it depends on a theological thought process…anyway…here tis:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3: 21-26
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So, we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:15, 16
Subjective and Objective Genitive. Nouns that express verbal notions, often nouns made from verbs and verbals, may indicate who the subject or the object, or both, of the verbal notion is by placing them in the genitive. Sometimes the verbal relationship is not immediately apparent. Consider: severitatis invidiae = "hatred that arises from your severeness" or, more obviously an objective genitive: "hatred of your severeness." There is no difference in form between the subjective and the objective genitive. Only context can make a final determination. However, there are norms. First, word order: the objective genitive usually comes first. This is only a guide, however, since word order may always be changed for emphasis. Second, adjectival forms are preferred for the subjective genitive, presumably because the subject of an action modifies the action more directly than the object. Consider even the English: "my love for you." Here the possessive pronoun, "my," indicates who is the subject of the (hidden) verb "love": "I love you." Similarly, "divine love" specifies the God or gods as the one(s) who love.
The difference between the subjective and objective genitive is important for languages, like Greek and Latin, in which the genitive or possessive case has multiple functions. But although little attention is paid to it in a language like English which has lost its nominal cases, this distinction is highly important also in it. The objective genitive answers the question ‘of what?’ For example, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as an objective genitive, answers the question, ‘the experience of what?’. Here the child is the object of the experience. The subjective genitive, on the other hand, answers the question ‘whose?’, ‘belonging to whom?’ Hence, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as a subjective genitive, answers the question, ‘experience of whom?’, ‘whose experience?’ Here the child is the subject of the experience.
Both of those translations treat pistis Christou as an objective genitive - faith IN Christ. The subjective genitive would be faith OF Christ or Christ's faith. The difference is HUGE. Read it both ways. Notice the difference.
Change faith to believing and it's different still. Believing IN Christ or Christ's believing.
I wonder if the "measure of faith" one has colors the context somehow. Would the measure of faith one possesses inform these passages to be read with the subjective genitive - faith OF Christ?
victor talked much about how accurate and precise Greek is. Ehh, yeah, kinda... this verbal genitive is not the only ambiguous construction in Greek. Yes, context is key, but we're talking Pauline theology - not always a crystalline clear alpine stream.
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T-Bone
I wish I studied this stuff more…from what little I remember of TWI’s teaching on this – it seemed a little muddy on which way to look at it – as far as what’s it in reference to faith or believing…what little I’ve looked into after I left – I don’t really get into if it’s talking about believing or faith…rather I try to figure out “the direction” of faith (I'm just using the idea of religious faith - and as a sidenote see how I understand commonplace believing and religious faith on another thread - here ....caution take with a grain of salt cuz I'm not 100 % sure of this
) whether it’s faith toward Christ or something we receive from Him…also not sure I understand the question - I don't really know what I'm talking about anyway 
.... we clear as mud, now? ok good! 
but throwing caution to the wind I’ve got the verses you referenced below and interlinear of key verse and a couple of hyperlinks on subjective and objective genitive…what I got out of them is it’s determined by context – which requires some thought on the part of the reader to figure out which way it should go…maybe similar to what you said – it depends on a theological thought process (in other words, it's assumed the reader has a general idea of the key concepts as addressed in all Scriptures on the same topic) ...anyway…here tis:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3: 21-26
Bible Hub: interlinear of Romans 3:24
(to navigate forward a verse or backward to previous verse on Bible Hub interlinear - just click on the left or right arrows)
~ ~ ~ ~
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So, we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:15, 16
Bible Hub: interlinear Galatians 2:16
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Subjective and Objective Genitive. Nouns that express verbal notions, often nouns made from verbs and verbals, may indicate who the subject or the object, or both, of the verbal notion is by placing them in the genitive. Sometimes the verbal relationship is not immediately apparent. Consider: severitatis invidiae = "hatred that arises from your severeness" or, more obviously an objective genitive: "hatred of your severeness." There is no difference in form between the subjective and the objective genitive. Only context can make a final determination. However, there are norms. First, word order: the objective genitive usually comes first. This is only a guide, however, since word order may always be changed for emphasis. Second, adjectival forms are preferred for the subjective genitive, presumably because the subject of an action modifies the action more directly than the object. Consider even the English: "my love for you." Here the possessive pronoun, "my," indicates who is the subject of the (hidden) verb "love": "I love you." Similarly, "divine love" specifies the God or gods as the one(s) who love.
from: Classics OSU edu: genitive case
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The difference between the subjective and objective genitive is important for languages, like Greek and Latin, in which the genitive or possessive case has multiple functions. But although little attention is paid to it in a language like English which has lost its nominal cases, this distinction is highly important also in it. The objective genitive answers the question ‘of what?’ For example, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as an objective genitive, answers the question, ‘the experience of what?’. Here the child is the object of the experience. The subjective genitive, on the other hand, answers the question ‘whose?’, ‘belonging to whom?’ Hence, ‘the child’ in ‘the experience of the child‘, if taken as a subjective genitive, answers the question, ‘experience of whom?’, ‘whose experience?’ Here the child is the subject of the experience.
from: Mcluhan: objective and subjective genitives
Edited by T-BoneGeeky note
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, T-Bone.
Both of those translations treat pistis Christou as an objective genitive - faith IN Christ. The subjective genitive would be faith OF Christ or Christ's faith. The difference is HUGE. Read it both ways. Notice the difference.
Change faith to believing and it's different still. Believing IN Christ or Christ's believing.
I wonder if the "measure of faith" one has colors the context somehow. Would the measure of faith one possesses inform these passages to be read with the subjective genitive - faith OF Christ?
victor talked much about how accurate and precise Greek is. Ehh, yeah, kinda... this verbal genitive is not the only ambiguous construction in Greek. Yes, context is key, but we're talking Pauline theology - not always a crystalline clear alpine stream.
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