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How can I not be deceived by other cults?  I don’t want to join another one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/s/Mh6incJZ98
 

Reddit thread on this question.  Some insightful commentary.

For me it was partially self delusion.  I traded free will and compliance for an emotional sense of security, belonging, and purpose.

All those 3 tangible benefits were 100 percent delusional and false.  There is no security and belonging in a high control environment where questioning or presenting a different opinion results in shunning.  Obviously there is tangible negative emotional impact with shunning.  And any purpose was masked with the true hidden purpose of elevating certain individuals in stature and position.

There are emotional lies that people buy into and trade their freedom for.

 

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On 3/11/2024 at 9:51 AM, chockfull said:

How can I not be deceived by other cults?  I don’t want to join another one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/s/Mh6incJZ98
 

Reddit thread on this question.  Some insightful commentary.

For me it was partially self delusion.  I traded free will and compliance for an emotional sense of security, belonging, and purpose.

All those 3 tangible benefits were 100 percent delusional and false.  There is no security and belonging in a high control environment where questioning or presenting a different opinion results in shunning.  Obviously there is tangible negative emotional impact with shunning.  And any purpose was masked with the true hidden purpose of elevating certain individuals in stature and position.

There are emotional lies that people buy into and trade their freedom for.

 

Thank you for articulating these things!!! 

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On 3/11/2024 at 9:51 AM, chockfull said:

How can I not be deceived by other cults?  I don’t want to join another one.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/s/Mh6incJZ98
 

Reddit thread on this question.  Some insightful commentary.

For me it was partially self delusion.  I traded free will and compliance for an emotional sense of security, belonging, and purpose.

All those 3 tangible benefits were 100 percent delusional and false.  There is no security and belonging in a high control environment where questioning or presenting a different opinion results in shunning.  Obviously there is tangible negative emotional impact with shunning.  And any purpose was masked with the true hidden purpose of elevating certain individuals in stature and position.

There are emotional lies that people buy into and trade their freedom for.

 

Also checking into several resources in the Reddit link- Daniella Young's book, and a really good article! So appreciate these!

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On 3/15/2024 at 7:25 PM, chockfull said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/BMLDktDe1b
 

Hallelujah y’alls.  Sisters are now permitted to wear slacks!  Advancing in 2024!

Also the ASL interpreter is Curious George!

Sorry, I saw the name Bethel and immediately thought of the charismatic church that I've been reading about when following the IHOPKC meltdown.  I realize now that it's about JW and that you've been following it for a while now. 

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19 hours ago, Charity said:

Do you know much about Bethel?

Yes I have a relative living at one.  It’s a bit like the TWI staff.  Very controlled and patrolled environment with respect to what can and can’t be said.   Mostly carpentry and production for Watchtower.  Education is discouraged as Jesus is coming back any minute now.  They have Bethels in many countries.  It is a high honor among them to live and work there.  The next governing body comes from Bethel workers and the succession to those positions.   Saying “I was a Bethelite” among JW gives them advanced status in a group.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/wt8jz3TFOc
 

Recent statistics are showing around 50% of returning Mormon missionaries are leaving the church.  It seems the most devout adherents to the rules are among the ones leaving first.  Those who go through motions for political gain are advancing in positions.

What a testament to the long-term adverse effects of using another individual to expand your organization via free labor and outreach programs.

Did I recognize these patterns in how TWI uses their “Wow” TM Ambassadors? Or “Way Ambassadors”? Or Way Corps pressured to “get a class together”?

I did these programs.  They isolated me from family and friends and re-enforced the cult values over individual goals.  They lead to ever increasing commitment to an organization and protection of everyone and everything they represent regardless of how evil the impact is.  

There is long-term isolation from support groups and replacing them with more devout and controlling support groups.  There is the grooming for higher programs always.  In those programs there is the climbing over each other to obtain position and status.  The ultimate end of this is the BOD who answer to nobody and are treated like gods.

Don’t let your life be used for another’s political aspirations and control.

Regardless of what group it is, what pitch they have, the results will always contain consequences.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/toPjST02Yg
 

This thread talks about all the social advantages there are in being in a cult.  Many “friends” easily accessible.  This person talks about the JW app where they are connected to 500 people and are “friends” with 100 of them.

Another insightful comment describes that as  “forced connections with people whose real personalities are hidden under a facade”.

I think many people trade their souls and morals for this fake connection.  I certainly lost about 100 percent of those fake connections when I decided that the path of lifetime service to prop up “WOW” TM and self inflated nincompoops was not the best for my family.

How many people disagree with the tenets of TWI but are too afraid to leave because of their “friends”????

Heres a tip.  They are not your friends.  They are less your friends than the neighbors on your street for the most part and than your average person in a community.  Those ties aren’t worth the sacrifice.  The juice is not worth the squeeze IMO.

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  • 3 months later...

That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding.

Cheers to Liz!

Charlene

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On 7/26/2024 at 5:31 AM, penworks said:

That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding.

Cheers to Liz!

Charlene

Hi there - I saw the writer was Liz Childers. Haven't seen Tom or Madeline Childers in years, they were from northern California, a bit older than we were when we met them but very nice people as I recall. Any idea - is Liz a daughter or grand daughter, Charlene? 

 

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On 7/30/2024 at 1:23 AM, socks said:

Hi there - I saw the writer was Liz Childers. Haven't seen Tom or Madeline Childers in years, they were from northern California, a bit older than we were when we met them but very nice people as I recall. Any idea - is Liz a daughter or grand daughter, Charlene? 

 

No, she is not related to them. I asked her.

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  • 3 months later...

Mainly what I remember of the Jonestown Massacre, as it pertained to The Way International, is that we fervently tried to distance ourselves from any comparisons being made with the lifestyle they lived to the lifestyle we lived. There wasn't much discussion of doctrinal differences. Our concerns seemed to be mostly about public perception. I don't recall much discussion internally, amongst ourselves, questioning whether or not we were deluding ourselves.  From our perspective, they were a counterfeit and we were  "the real deal".

 

Did I dream all this stuff or did it really happen?

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On 11/20/2024 at 7:17 AM, waysider said:

Mainly what I remember of the Jonestown Massacre, as it pertained to The Way International, is that we fervently tried to distance ourselves from any comparisons being made with the lifestyle they lived to the lifestyle we lived. There wasn't much discussion of doctrinal differences. Our concerns seemed to be mostly about public perception. I don't recall much discussion internally, amongst ourselves, questioning whether or not we were deluding ourselves.  From our perspective, they were a counterfeit and we were  "the real deal".

 

Did I dream all this stuff or did it really happen?

The 7th and 9th corpses were in residence when it happened. I remember Loy having a lot to say about it. Of course, Waysider, you're correct. The essence of the message at Emporia was mainly that WE were NOT a cult. As one of those 9th corpse people, we didn't have access to what was being said in the news. We were only fed what TWI, and mainly Loy Martindale thought about any of it.

 

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On 11/20/2024 at 9:17 AM, waysider said:

Mainly what I remember of the Jonestown Massacre, as it pertained to The Way International, is that we fervently tried to distance ourselves from any comparisons being made with the lifestyle they lived to the lifestyle we lived. There wasn't much discussion of doctrinal differences. Our concerns seemed to be mostly about public perception. I don't recall much discussion internally, amongst ourselves, questioning whether or not we were deluding ourselves.  From our perspective, they were a counterfeit and we were  "the real deal".

 

Did I dream all this stuff or did it really happen?

I remember VPW and Craig saying it was a CIA operation, that's about it.   I found this CIA clip confirming the lawsuit surrounding it:

REV. JONES WAS CIA AGENT, SUIT ALLEGES

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1 hour ago, oldiesman said:

I remember VPW and Craig saying it was a CIA operation, that's about it.   I found this CIA clip confirming the lawsuit surrounding it:

REV. JONES WAS CIA AGENT, SUIT ALLEGES

In case anyone is confused, I'd like to clarify.

oldiesman confirmed there was a lawsuit that was filed.  He did not confirm the lawsuit had merit or that it was factually correct.   But, as a point of history, he confirmed that people were saying that at the time.

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  • 4 months later...

The following is a flyer I created and have distributed to students and folks who've attended my presentations. Help yourself.

What Do You Know About Cults?

What is a cult?

“An ideological organization held together by charismatic relationships and demanding total commitment.”

~ Benjamin Zablocki, PhD, “Cults: Theory and Treatment Issues.” http://www.icsahome.com/articles/cultspsymanipsociety-langone

How do cults recruit?

Promises and pressure

What are some warning signs?

  1. Charismatic, authoritarian, self-proclaimed leader with no check on power
  2. Deceptive recruiting (often sincere)
  3. Critical inquiry viewed as “persecution”
  4. Organized psychological manipulation
  5. Emotional, sexual, and financial exploitation
  6. Inner circle of loyal followers with secret beliefs/behavior
  7. No meaningful economic transparency

How do cults undermine freedom?

  1. Demand loyalty to cult leader/ideology
  2. Disallow freedom of religion (theirs is the only right one)
  3. Intimidate to prevent free thought
  4. Control personal goals
  5. Destabilize freedom of association

 How can we respond to recruiters? ABCD

A - Always research group

B - Be firm when refusing recruitment

C - Challenge appealing promises

D - Don’t tolerate deception, even from a friend

 Warning: An imbalance of power is an opportunity for abuse.

 Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International

 By Charlene L. Edge. Memoir. Paperback and eBook at major booksellers & indie bookstores

 “… A frank, in-depth account of one woman’s struggles in a controlling organization.” — Kirkus Reviews

 Gold medal winner - Florida Authors and Publishers Association, 2017

 On Book Riot’s list of “100 Must-Read Books About Life in Cults and Oppressive Religious Sects”

 What it’s about: After a family tragedy struck, teenaged Charlene rejected Catholicism, family, and friends to join what became one of the largest fundamentalist cults in America: The Way International led by Victor Paul Wierwille. After promotion to the inner circle of biblical researchers, Charlene discovered secrets: Wierwille’s plagiarism, misuse of Scripture, and sex abuse. Amid chaos at The Way’s headquarters, Charlene escaped.

Why Undertow matters: Each year about 50,000 to 100,000 people enter or leave high-control groups called “cults” (data: The International Cultic Studies Association). Movies like Going Clear and The Path have captured the nation’s attention. Undertow is a personal story about cult recruitment and fear-based manipulation by an authoritarian, charismatic leader. The fundamentalist mindset, espousing certainty about God and the meaning of the Bible, causes untold divisions in families and communities. Undertow shows this pain from an insider’s perspective and that healing is possible.

 A taste of Undertow: I gulped down Doug’s words without doing any critical thinking, not pressing him to prove what he said. He was so sincere that I clung to his assertions, like ‘believing equals receiving,’ as if they were heaven-sent.”

 CHARLENE L. EDGE spent 17 years in The Way (1970–1987). Later she earned a B.A. in English from Rollins College and worked for more than a decade as writer in the software industry. She is a published poet and essayist and a member of the Florida Writers Association, the Authors Guild, and the International Cultic Studies Association. She lives in Florida with her husband, Dr. Hoyt L. Edge. She blogs at: http://charleneedge.com

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