Reddit thread on this question. Some insightful commentary.
For me it was partially self delusion. I traded free will and compliance for an emotional sense of security, belonging, and purpose.
All those 3 tangible benefits were 100 percent delusional and false. There is no security and belonging in a high control environment where questioning or presenting a different opinion results in shunning. Obviously there is tangible negative emotional impact with shunning. And any purpose was masked with the true hidden purpose of elevating certain individuals in stature and position.
There are emotional lies that people buy into and trade their freedom for.
Reddit thread on this question. Some insightful commentary.
For me it was partially self delusion. I traded free will and compliance for an emotional sense of security, belonging, and purpose.
All those 3 tangible benefits were 100 percent delusional and false. There is no security and belonging in a high control environment where questioning or presenting a different opinion results in shunning. Obviously there is tangible negative emotional impact with shunning. And any purpose was masked with the true hidden purpose of elevating certain individuals in stature and position.
There are emotional lies that people buy into and trade their freedom for.
Also checking into several resources in the Reddit link- Daniella Young's book, and a really good article! So appreciate these!
Hallelujah y’alls. Sisters are now permitted to wear slacks! Advancing in 2024!
Also the ASL interpreter is Curious George!
Sorry, I saw the name Bethel and immediately thought of the charismatic church that I've been reading about when following the IHOPKC meltdown. I realize now that it's about JW and that you've been following it for a while now.
Yes I have a relative living at one. It’s a bit like the TWI staff. Very controlled and patrolled environment with respect to what can and can’t be said. Mostly carpentry and production for Watchtower. Education is discouraged as Jesus is coming back any minute now. They have Bethels in many countries. It is a high honor among them to live and work there. The next governing body comes from Bethel workers and the succession to those positions. Saying “I was a Bethelite” among JW gives them advanced status in a group.
Recent statistics are showing around 50% of returning Mormon missionaries are leaving the church. It seems the most devout adherents to the rules are among the ones leaving first. Those who go through motions for political gain are advancing in positions.
What a testament to the long-term adverse effects of using another individual to expand your organization via free labor and outreach programs.
Did I recognize these patterns in how TWI uses their “Wow” TM Ambassadors? Or “Way Ambassadors”? Or Way Corps pressured to “get a class together”?
I did these programs. They isolated me from family and friends and re-enforced the cult values over individual goals. They lead to ever increasing commitment to an organization and protection of everyone and everything they represent regardless of how evil the impact is.
There is long-term isolation from support groups and replacing them with more devout and controlling support groups. There is the grooming for higher programs always. In those programs there is the climbing over each other to obtain position and status. The ultimate end of this is the BOD who answer to nobody and are treated like gods.
Don’t let your life be used for another’s political aspirations and control.
Regardless of what group it is, what pitch they have, the results will always contain consequences.
This thread talks about all the social advantages there are in being in a cult. Many “friends” easily accessible. This person talks about the JW app where they are connected to 500 people and are “friends” with 100 of them.
Another insightful comment describes that as “forced connections with people whose real personalities are hidden under a facade”.
I think many people trade their souls and morals for this fake connection. I certainly lost about 100 percent of those fake connections when I decided that the path of lifetime service to prop up “WOW” TM and self inflated nincompoops was not the best for my family.
How many people disagree with the tenets of TWI but are too afraid to leave because of their “friends”????
Heres a tip. They are not your friends. They are less your friends than the neighbors on your street for the most part and than your average person in a community. Those ties aren’t worth the sacrifice. The juice is not worth the squeeze IMO.
“….all the social advantages there are in being in a cult.”
What could ever be said to someone who beleeeves this? It is daunting to even imagine the level of delusion required, yet, I see it and read about it every day. Very, very sad.
That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding.
That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding.
Cheers to Liz!
Charlene
Hi there - I saw the writer was Liz Childers. Haven't seen Tom or Madeline Childers in years, they were from northern California, a bit older than we were when we met them but very nice people as I recall. Any idea - is Liz a daughter or grand daughter, Charlene?
Hi there - I saw the writer was Liz Childers. Haven't seen Tom or Madeline Childers in years, they were from northern California, a bit older than we were when we met them but very nice people as I recall. Any idea - is Liz a daughter or grand daughter, Charlene?
Mainly what I remember of the Jonestown Massacre, as it pertained to The Way International, is that we fervently tried to distance ourselves from any comparisons being made with the lifestyle they lived to the lifestyle we lived. There wasn't much discussion of doctrinal differences. Our concerns seemed to be mostly about public perception. I don't recall much discussion internally, amongst ourselves, questioning whether or not we were deluding ourselves. From our perspective, they were a counterfeit and we were "the real deal".
Did I dream all this stuff or did it really happen?
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Nathan_Jr
I really despise these euphemisms, but charlatans and criminals wouldn’t leave the house without them. The media seems to have normalized this linguistic apologetic by referring to rape as sexual
Stayed Too Long
Great atticle defining a cult https://findingmyway12.substack.com/p/waityou-grew-up-in-a-cult
penworks
I admire Jennifer's bravery in sharing her traumatic experiences and related information on Substack. Here's my blog today that includes a link to her post: Speaking of "Way" Stories ... | C
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Rocky
That's it in a nutshell.
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annio
Thank you for articulating these things!!!
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annio
Also checking into several resources in the Reddit link- Daniella Young's book, and a really good article! So appreciate these!
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chockfull
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/BMLDktDe1b
Hallelujah y’alls. Sisters are now permitted to wear slacks! Advancing in 2024!
Also the ASL interpreter is Curious George!
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Charity
Do you know much about Bethel?
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Charity
Sorry, I saw the name Bethel and immediately thought of the charismatic church that I've been reading about when following the IHOPKC meltdown. I realize now that it's about JW and that you've been following it for a while now.
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chockfull
Yes I have a relative living at one. It’s a bit like the TWI staff. Very controlled and patrolled environment with respect to what can and can’t be said. Mostly carpentry and production for Watchtower. Education is discouraged as Jesus is coming back any minute now. They have Bethels in many countries. It is a high honor among them to live and work there. The next governing body comes from Bethel workers and the succession to those positions. Saying “I was a Bethelite” among JW gives them advanced status in a group.
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chockfull
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/wt8jz3TFOc
Recent statistics are showing around 50% of returning Mormon missionaries are leaving the church. It seems the most devout adherents to the rules are among the ones leaving first. Those who go through motions for political gain are advancing in positions.
What a testament to the long-term adverse effects of using another individual to expand your organization via free labor and outreach programs.
Did I recognize these patterns in how TWI uses their “Wow” TM Ambassadors? Or “Way Ambassadors”? Or Way Corps pressured to “get a class together”?
I did these programs. They isolated me from family and friends and re-enforced the cult values over individual goals. They lead to ever increasing commitment to an organization and protection of everyone and everything they represent regardless of how evil the impact is.
There is long-term isolation from support groups and replacing them with more devout and controlling support groups. There is the grooming for higher programs always. In those programs there is the climbing over each other to obtain position and status. The ultimate end of this is the BOD who answer to nobody and are treated like gods.
Don’t let your life be used for another’s political aspirations and control.
Regardless of what group it is, what pitch they have, the results will always contain consequences.
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chockfull
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/toPjST02Yg
This thread talks about all the social advantages there are in being in a cult. Many “friends” easily accessible. This person talks about the JW app where they are connected to 500 people and are “friends” with 100 of them.
Another insightful comment describes that as “forced connections with people whose real personalities are hidden under a facade”.
I think many people trade their souls and morals for this fake connection. I certainly lost about 100 percent of those fake connections when I decided that the path of lifetime service to prop up “WOW” TM and self inflated nincompoops was not the best for my family.
How many people disagree with the tenets of TWI but are too afraid to leave because of their “friends”????
Heres a tip. They are not your friends. They are less your friends than the neighbors on your street for the most part and than your average person in a community. Those ties aren’t worth the sacrifice. The juice is not worth the squeeze IMO.
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Nathan_Jr
The juice is dead.
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Nathan_Jr
“….all the social advantages there are in being in a cult.”
What could ever be said to someone who beleeeves this? It is daunting to even imagine the level of delusion required, yet, I see it and read about it every day. Very, very sad.
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Stayed Too Long
Great atticle defining a cult
https://findingmyway12.substack.com/p/waityou-grew-up-in-a-cult
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penworks
That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding.
Cheers to Liz!
Charlene
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socks
Hi there - I saw the writer was Liz Childers. Haven't seen Tom or Madeline Childers in years, they were from northern California, a bit older than we were when we met them but very nice people as I recall. Any idea - is Liz a daughter or grand daughter, Charlene?
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penworks
No, she is not related to them. I asked her.
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socks
Thanks!
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penworks
SPECIAL NEWS: November 18th is International Cult Awareness Day | Charlene L. Edge
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, Charlene.
I was going to ask what not a real doctor said about the Jonestown Massacre, but did a quick search instead.
WordWolf nicely compiled the memories of how victor handled it here:
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waysider
Mainly what I remember of the Jonestown Massacre, as it pertained to The Way International, is that we fervently tried to distance ourselves from any comparisons being made with the lifestyle they lived to the lifestyle we lived. There wasn't much discussion of doctrinal differences. Our concerns seemed to be mostly about public perception. I don't recall much discussion internally, amongst ourselves, questioning whether or not we were deluding ourselves. From our perspective, they were a counterfeit and we were "the real deal".
Did I dream all this stuff or did it really happen?
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