New Testament Canon

[Mike]

1 hour ago, fredgrant said:

Hmmm - where did you get that little gem?

You had quoted my line:
"Now God does not always get His will."
(late edit)

I wonder why you missed that gem in your Bible reading.
Maybe you were holding on too tight to the idea that God does everything?

Sin is ONE time where God's will is being violated.

Right now the whole creation groans and is in pain, it says in scripture. That is not God's will.

Disease and death are enemies of God it says, and yet they happen.
 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mike

[Mike]

1 hour ago, TLC said:

Is not one of the primary "keys" of biblical interpretation a consideration of "to whom is it addressed"?

If so, then who spoke what is written in John 10:10, and to whom was it directed?  Who were those words given to?
In other words, exactly who does the "you" in John 10:10 refer to?

Matthew 15

[22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rom.15

[8] Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers

But, I suppose you can cut those verses out of the Bible if you don't like them. Or, you can just ignore them and claim that anything and everything that Jesus Christ said or did here in his earthly ministry was actually directed to anyone and everyone...  then ANYONE can have POWER for Abundant Living !!!  Because having a wonderfully rich and prosperous life right now is available for everyone that wants to pretend this is addressed to them...

I don't see where this good point of yours is applicable in this thread.

[Mike]

1 hour ago, fredgrant said:

Hmmm - where did you get that little gem?

I don’t mean to be dismissive above.

You had quoted my line:
"Now God does not always get His will."
(late edit)

It’s just that you’re bringing up a huge subject:
the different layers or the different wills of God.

 

 

 

God’s overall, top level will is to tolerate sin.
But His will at our level is to not like it,
because it is against His will at our level.

God always gets His way in the long run, in time.

But right now, at our level on the timescales
we have to wait for that to happen.

*/*/*/*

But could you try, eventually, to show how this fits in to the canon theories being presented?

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mike

[T-Bone]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

Another factual error.

I found the NASB on my own in the 1970s, and LOVED IT.
This was posted by me more than once lately; overlooked by you.

Years later, on an SNT tape, Craig gave a hearty endorsement of NASB, and said it was one of the best. I guess you overlooked that also.

It will be fascinating to see how many of the 2 Timothy points (there are many) you will overlook as you pound out a definite ababababab stucture, with "a" being ad-hominems on me, and "b" is your usual blather extolling your anti-idol

Does your blather go up to 11 ?

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

Does your blather go up to 11 ?

I call for a blather truce.
We can better discuss the varioous canon theories that way.

[T-Bone]

4 hours ago, Mike said:

So, besides the shots fired, what did you think of the "ababababa" explanation in 2 Timothy, Mrs. Lincoln?

my favorite thing about abba

[Mike]

oooh!   I forgot about the third (and last) installment of my 1972ish paper. 
(it's almost done)
You'll need blather goggles for that.

Did I ever tell you how I outfitted myself with blather goggles?
It's easy.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mike

[T-Bone]

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

I call for a blather truce.
We can better discuss the varioous canon theories that way.

What theories? The NT canon is a reality 

[Mike]

Just now, T-Bone said:

What theories? The NT canon is a reality 

The NT canon Top-Down Theory is a reality to some extent. There are gaps and uncertainties, the farther DOWN in time it looks.

The NT canon Bottom-Up Theory (mine) is a reality to some extent. There are gaps and uncertainties the farther UP in time it looks. 

But it sees the apostolic years, the First Century, with brilliant clarity and authority.

 

[Mike]

Hey!

A zero blather exchange. 
We're doing better.

[T-Bone]

4 hours ago, Mike said:

oooh!   I forgot about the third (and last) installment of my 1972ish paper. 
(it's almost done)
You'll need blather goggles for that.

Did I ever tell you how I outfitted myself with blather goggles?
It's easy.

Does it involve strapping a tv monitor to your head - up close and personal with “the teacher”

Going door to door witnessing about PFAL, as seen on TV

Edited October 17, 2022 by T-Bone
Typos as seen on Grease Spot

[fredgrant]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

I don’t mean to be dismissive above.

You had quoted my line:
"Now God does not always get His will."
(late edit)

It’s just that you’re bringing up a huge subject:
the different layers or the different wills of God.

 

 

 

God’s overall, top level will is to tolerate sin.
But His will at our level is to not like it,
because it is against His will at our level.

God always gets His way in the long run, in time.

But right now, at our level on the timescales
we have to wait for that to happen.

*/*/*/*

But could you try, eventually, to show how this fits in to the canon theories being presented?

I apologize. I assumed since you brought it up you considered it relevant.  I will try to be more careful

[Mike]

2 minutes ago, fredgrant said:

I apologize. I assumed since you brought it up you considered it relevant.  I will try to be more careful

No need for apologies.
Thanks for the fast answers.

I brought it up to say that the canon approval process during the years 100 to 400 did not all go according to God's plan, His will.  But EVENTUALLY it did, and by the later centuries the canon was less and less an issue to most Christians.

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

The NT canon Top-Down Theory is a reality to some extent. There are gaps and uncertainties, the farther DOWN in time it looks.

The NT canon Bottom-Up Theory (mine) is a reality to some extent. There are gaps and uncertainties the farther UP in time it looks. 

But it sees the apostolic years, the First Century, with brilliant clarity and authority.

 

Theory = reality ?

1 = 0 ?

The New Testimony of PFAL = when pigs fly

Edited October 17, 2022 by T-Bone
Whenever I am right…then I am wrong

[Nathan_Jr]

36 minutes ago, Mike said:

No need for apologies.
Thanks for the fast answers.

I brought it up to say that the canon approval process during the years 100 to 400 did not all go according to God's plan, His will.  But EVENTUALLY it did, and by the later centuries the canon was less and less an issue to most Christians.

 

Where in 2 Timothy are the canonical books listed?

 

 

 

 

Canon New Oxford American Dictionary

noun

A collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine

• the works of a particular author or artist that are recognized as genuine.
• the list of works considered to be permanently established as being of the highest quality

 

Canon Cambridge Dictionary 

noun

The writings or other works that are generally agreed to be good, important, and worth studying.

 

Canon Merriam-Webster Dictionary

noun

a: an authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture

b: the authentic works of a writer

c: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works

 

[T-Bone]

6 hours ago, Mike said:

usual blather on your anti-idol.

Here’s one idol worse than wierwille

[T-Bone]

4 hours ago, TLC said:

Is not one of the primary "keys" of biblical interpretation a consideration of "to whom is it addressed"?

If so, then who spoke what is written in John 10:10, and to whom was it directed?  Who were those words given to?
In other words, exactly who does the "you" in John 10:10 refer to?

Matthew 15

[22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rom.15

[8] Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers

But, I suppose you can cut those verses out of the Bible if you don't like them. Or, you can just ignore them and claim that anything and everything that Jesus Christ said or did here in his earthly ministry was actually directed to anyone and everyone...  then ANYONE can have POWER for Abundant Living !!!  Because having a wonderfully rich and prosperous life right now is available for everyone that wants to pretend this is addressed to them...

and what if the address is unknown?

[T-Bone]

14 hours ago, Mike said:

He lovers leaving all kinds of treasures (hints sometimes)

What if the person can’t take a hint?

[T-Bone]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

Right now the whole creation groans and is in pain, it says in scripture. That is not God's will.

If the word of God is the will of God and it says the whole creation groans and is in pain - then it IS  God’s will 

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Hey!

A zero blather exchange. 
We're doing better.

Blather is as blather does 

[T-Bone]

5 hours ago, Mike said:

Another factual error.

I found the NASB on my own in the 1970s, and LOVED IT.
This was posted by me more than once lately; overlooked by you.

Years later, on an SNT tape, Craig gave a hearty endorsement of NASB, and said it was one of the best. I guess you overlooked that also.

It will be fascinating to see how many of the 2 Timothy points (there are many) you will overlook as you pound out a definite ababababab stucture, with "a" being ad-hominems on me, and "b" is your usual blather extolling your anti-idol

What on Earth are you talking about? I was referring to the Native American Student Body.

[Mike]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Where in 2 Timothy are the canonical books listed?

 

Where did you get the idea that they SHOULD be listed in there, in order for my theory to be true?

Remember to apply your critical thinking skills, and eliminate confirmation bias,  to your own arguments.

I think it is SUPER interesting that Paul mentions a few Biblical canon writers, in the same breath as he mentions a last meeting of them all, along with books and parchments.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mike

[Nathan_Jr]

8 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

If the word of God is the will of God and it says the whole creation groans and is in pain - then it IS  God’s will 

No, no, no, NO!!!

The Word = TheBible+Believing+ChristInYou+YourWalk

The will of God is not part of the equation.

[Nathan_Jr]

1 minute ago, Mike said:

Where did you get the idea that they SHOULD be listed in there, in order for my theory to be true?

A canon is a list of books deemed authoritative or genuine. I'm trying to follow.

[Nathan_Jr]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

Remember to apply your critical thinking skills, and eliminate confirmation bias,  to your own arguments.

I'm not making an argument. You're making assumptions and accusations, AGAIN. I asked a simple, legitimate and relevant QUESTION in the midst of a DISCUSSION.

I already reproved, corrected and warned you about this, Mike.