Considering that's such an obvious and blatant contradiction of what is so plainly written in Romans 6, perhaps it shouldn't be all that difficult to figure out why 2 Maccabees was left out of the King James...
Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
I guess we are into some doctrine again, but I looked up the first part of Romans 6 in the Douay Rheims and is quite enlightening. First, its talking about our walk in Christ. It talks about the possibility of not walking in sin. Notice the wording "that the body of sin MAY be destroyed"... "to the end that we MAY serve sin no longer..." "so that we MAY walk in newness of life." These are maybes.
Now purgatory is the place (according to Catholicism) saints of God need to be purified of sins committed after baptism (when we received the clean slate), since we didn't stop walking in sin. Maybe that is what verse 5 means? "For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection" may mean we need the suffering to get planted and be in the likeness of his resurrection? Could be a stretch, who knows. I'm struggling to understand these verses better.
[1]What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[2]God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?[3]Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death?[4]For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.[5]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
[6]Knowing this, thatour old manis crucified with him, that thebody of sinmay be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer.[7]For he that is dead is justified from sin.[8]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ:[9]Knowing that Christ rising again from the dead, dieth now no more, death shall no more have dominion over him.[10]For in that he died to sin, he died once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God:
[6]"Our old man": Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man.
[6]"Body of sin": The vices and sins, which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin.
Did you know that the devil can whisper in YOUR ear, and make it sound like a good idea of your own, or a revelation from the True God?
We were taught that, and taught that often.
I’m glad Mike brought that up
I’ve often wondered why wierwille was so big on fearmongering over the devil and his troops. In my opinion, some of what drove it was his desire - as cult-leader- to manipulate and control his followers.
That got me to thinking – did he really believe all the stuff he said – about anything?
(*Check out a couple of excerpts I have below that get into perception)
Often perception equals reality. Mental health experts have said we misjudge how intensely convincing some dissociative practices and misunderstandings can seem.
I’ve questioned if part of wierwille’s interest with devil spirits was an awareness he was unable to resist the devil’s schemes. Considering his bad behavior that was well-known by way corps – maybe he realized his defenses were already compromised. A person who lives a life of crime and deceit is always looking over his shoulder. Is it possible that even if a person has a seared conscience they still might to worry or think about the possibility that something bad might happen, that someone – mortal or…supernatural will try to cause harm?
In Genesis 4: 6 & 7 we read of God talking to Cain. Cain was struggling with his conscience – the internal battle was evident on his face:
Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Genesis 4: 6 & 7
I’ve heard Christian counselor Jay Adams abstract an idea from that passage – do good and you’ll feel good.
Leon F. Seltzer, Ph.D., holds doctorates in English and Psychology – he said there’s 4 chief methods for rationalizing—or even “moralizing”—our immoral behavior:
1.Reinterpreting Culpable Conduct
2.Obscuring Personal Agency
3.Disregarding or Distorting the Consequences of Immoral Action
4.Blaming and Dehumanizing the Victims of Evil Behavior
I know the Bible indicates a seared conscience does not function properly. But still there are other aspects of the mind that must try to make sense of what happens and why as a form of self-defense…maybe that’s the impetus for rationalizing bad behavior and being vigilant for some danger or harm that one suspects or fears they may encounter – even if they’re not sure why they feel that way.
I heard a preacher say one of the best ways to prepare for spiritual battles is to live an upright morally sound life. See also Romans 12,Ephesians 6
~ ~ ~ ~
*Perception:
Perception within psychology is not something we can measure directly, and it is a complex phenomenon. We may never know for sure the answers to these questions. However, as we evolve and learn more about our abilities and as science continues to develop, we are moving closer to a much deeper level of understanding.
As a psychiatrist, I routinely hear about all sorts of unusual perceptual experiences, and not just from people who are psychotic. A wide variety of abnormal conditions as well as a great many normal but misinterpreted phenomena can cause distorted perceptions.
And yet we find our own subjective perceptions so persuasive that we are more willing to doubt the laws of physics than to doubt our own minds. We can’t help assuming that perception equals reality. People underestimate the capacity of our brains to create their own convincing realities. They underestimate how powerfully realistic some dissociative experiences, hallucinations, and other well-recognized mental/neural misperceptions can seem.
You could say that one major role of a psychiatrist is to persuade people to be skeptical about their own beliefs—that is, to critically examine the evidence for their assumptions and to not automatically believe their own thoughts and perceptions.
Perception and intuition:
We experience the world through our senses. Even though it's often unreliable, subjective perception is a crucial source of data about the world. Indeed, it is the source of our data about the world. Even when we practice science, we are still obtaining data through our senses. Science is just a method to minimize the distorting effects of our perceptions and intuitions and to approximate a more objective view of reality (as the philosopher Thomas Nagel put it: “the view from nowhere”
I’ve often wondered why wierwille was so big on fearmongering over the devil and his troops. In my opinion, some of what drove it was his desire - as cult-leader- to manipulate and control his followers.
That got me to thinking – did he really believe all the stuff he said – about anything?
No. No he did not.
And he TOLD us as much when he said he no longer believed the words Holy or Bible on the cover of the book. From that point on, every. single. thing. he. dud. was. a. self-serving. con.
And he TOLD us as much when he said he no longer believed the words Holy or Bible on the cover of the book. From that point on, every. single. thing. he. dud. was. a. self-serving. con.
I think at times he did, but, I believe the Lord works with regardless.
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
This reminds me of what someone told me about a priest holding mass right after he rapes an alter boy in the back room. She said the priest's crime doesn't stop Jesus from moving for his people. She said that Jesus the Lord is still there and comes in the Eucharist regardless of the sins of the priest, because he loves us and appears for our benefit. And he will deal with the priest at the judgment just like he will deal with you and me, and Victor Paul Wierwille.
This follows what I've been saying repeatedly in the Greasespot, that the teachings of the Way or any other bible group should stand or fall on their own irrespective of the sins of the preacher.
This follows what I've been saying repeatedly in the Greasespot, that the teachings of the Way or any other bible group should stand or fall on their own irrespective of the sins of the preacher.
Oh look a ravenous wolf...but he sure teaches some hot bible....
Suppose I'm on my way to twig to give a teaching on I Timothy chapter 6, the chapter that details how a man of God should behave. As I'm cruising down the street, I spot a liquor store. There's just one guy behind the counter and no customers in sight. So, I think to myself, "Hey, this is a golden opportunity for a stick-up." So I run in, flash the gun, grab the cash and dash back out. I'm back on my way to twig. (I'll put 10% in the horn of plenty, of course.)
Will my teaching be more effective, less effective or unaffected? I mean, it's still the word, right?
Suppose I'm on my way to twig to give a teaching on I Timothy chapter 6, the chapter that details how a man of God should behave. As I'm cruising down the street, I spot a liquor store. There's just one guy behind the counter and no customers in sight. So, I think to myself, "Hey, this is a golden opportunity for a stick-up." So I run in, flash the gun, grab the cash and dash back out. I'm back on my way to twig. (I'll put 10% in the horn of plenty, of course.)
Will my teaching be more effective, less effective or unaffected? I mean, it's still the word, right?
Not to mention we are told over and over again in scripture to turn away from such people.
I think at times he did, but, I believe the Lord works with regardless.
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
This reminds me of what someone told me about a priest holding mass right after he rapes an alter boy in the back room. She said the priest's crime doesn't stop Jesus from moving for his people. She said that Jesus the Lord is still there and comes in the Eucharist regardless of the sins of the priest, because he loves us and appears for our benefit. And he will deal with the priest at the judgment just like he will deal with you and me, and Victor Paul Wierwille.
This follows what I've been saying repeatedly in the Greasespot, that the teachings of the Way or any other bible group should stand or fall on their own irrespective of the sins of the preacher.
And that’s why in my opinion I say compared to all the other groups that use the Bible – The Way International stands alone in having nothing that stands up to close scrutiny.
And personally I cringe every time I hear that story of the priest.
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
Causing to Stumble
6“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Not to mention we are told over and over again in scripture to turn away from such people.
Folks like us who have taken PFAL and are aware of the past teachings; some of us have been using and believing some of them for years, some have abandoned them, but for those like me who still believe parts; are supposed to reject them because of Wierwille's sins?
Folks like us who have taken PFAL and are aware of the past teachings; some of us have been using and believing some of them for years, some have abandoned them, but for those like me who still believe parts; are supposed to reject them because of Wierwille's sins?
Folks like us who have taken PFAL and are aware of the past teachings; some of us have been using and believing some of them for years, some have abandoned them, but for those like me who still believe parts; are supposed to reject them because of Wierwille's sins?
If wierwilles teachings are Biblical then they are in the Bible..no wierwille needed...
I would try to answer this hypothetical and say it's "unaffected" but I think it'd be more so up to the believing faith of the person preaching and the believing faith of the person receiving. Does the theft just before twig make the words of the preacher void to Almighty God? The scriptures say it does not.
I would try to answer this hypothetical and say it's "unaffected" but I think it'd be more so up to the believing faith of the person preaching and the believing faith of the person receiving. Does the theft just before twig make the words of the preacher void to Almighty God? The scriptures say it does not.
I would try to answer this hypothetical and say it's "unaffected" but I think it'd be more so up to the believing faith of the person preaching and the believing faith of the person receiving. Does the theft just before twig make the words of the preacher void to Almighty God? The scriptures say it does not.
I would try to answer this hypothetical and say it's "unaffected" but I think it'd be more so up to the believing faith of the person preaching and the believing faith of the person receiving. Does the theft just before twig make the words of the preacher void to Almighty God? The scriptures say it does not.
There are copious instructions and qualifications to govern Church leadership's behavior. They are held to a higher standard. And yes, if a person lives like the devil and quotes bible verses they are false in every which way. Part of leadership role in the Church is to set an example in conduct and not word only.
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
It's not a hypothetical. I know of a very real, similar situation, though key details (not a liquor store, etc.) have been altered to retain ambiguity. As to how it ended, let's just say it involved an orange jumpsuit.
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
As I said...if it's biblical it's in the Bible and no wierwille needed. Why prop a false prophet?
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
So, then, do whatever you want and quote some scripture to CYA.
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
Your assuming a lot that what wierwille taught is agreement with scripture.
Jesus taught by their fruits you shall know them in relation to ravenous wolves like wierwille so we can know to avoid them at all costs. Not they produce putrid fruit but teach God's word..so give heed.
And he TOLD us as much when he said he no longer believed the words Holy or Bible on the cover of the book. From that point on, every. single. thing. he. dud. was. a. self-serving. con.
Yes his ministry was a self-serving con job – but it’s possible that in his own twisted way the Bible stimulated his creativity – concepts like a higher power, evil forces, and an unseen world all revolved around him...to pull a reverse-whammy on the teacher of the Advanced Class - wierwille didn't have a clue about the greatest secret battle in the world - fighting with one's inner demons.
Setting aside the fact that wierwille had the gift ministry of a hypocrite – and actions do speak louder than words, generally speaking I don’t think we humans are computer-like in our belief systems. There are inconsistencies, things that don’t make sense or follow logic, some things even contradictory. Now add to that mix a person who has had probably more than one big time psychological disorder – and in wierwille’s case we’ve got a harmful and controlling charismatic cult-leader of epic proportions.
I shy away from saying anything conclusive about what wierwille believed. People can differ on how they define God or a higher power or how the universe works. As far as understanding malignant narcissism or thinking like a sociopath – that’s totally foreign to me.
wierwille may have been so deluded that in the milieu of the little cult-world he created for himself the Bible fueled his imagination. I don’t think he was always trying to justify his actions to others or himself – he had no qualms about doing whatever he did. He was just testifying about having a great big wonderful God - - himself.
Ezekiel 14:4 talks about the idols people create in their hearts. Perhaps wierwille’s God was himself and he just never acknowledged it – he had difficulty separating fact from fiction, truth from lies anyway.
And in John 16:2 Jesus spoke of people killing His followers thinking they’re offering a service to God…yeah generally religions can get pretty hypocritical when one group goes after another because they don’t believe the same way.
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Twinky
I haven't been following this thread but had a peek. This whole thread is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the canon of scripture. But I did note the following, originally posted by our
waysider
Ahhh, those were the days.
waysider
Bake 'em away, toys.
Posted Images
oldiesman
I guess we are into some doctrine again, but I looked up the first part of Romans 6 in the Douay Rheims and is quite enlightening. First, its talking about our walk in Christ. It talks about the possibility of not walking in sin. Notice the wording "that the body of sin MAY be destroyed"... "to the end that we MAY serve sin no longer..." "so that we MAY walk in newness of life." These are maybes.
Now purgatory is the place (according to Catholicism) saints of God need to be purified of sins committed after baptism (when we received the clean slate), since we didn't stop walking in sin. Maybe that is what verse 5 means? "For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection" may mean we need the suffering to get planted and be in the likeness of his resurrection? Could be a stretch, who knows. I'm struggling to understand these verses better.
[1] What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein? [3] Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death? [4] For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer. [7] For he that is dead is justified from sin. [8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ: [9] Knowing that Christ rising again from the dead, dieth now no more, death shall no more have dominion over him. [10] For in that he died to sin, he died once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God:
[6] "Our old man": Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man.
[6] "Body of sin": The vices and sins, which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin.
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OldSkool
delete me..
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T-Bone
I’m glad Mike brought that up
I’ve often wondered why wierwille was so big on fearmongering over the devil and his troops. In my opinion, some of what drove it was his desire - as cult-leader - to manipulate and control his followers.
That got me to thinking – did he really believe all the stuff he said – about anything?
(*Check out a couple of excerpts I have below that get into perception)
Often perception equals reality. Mental health experts have said we misjudge how intensely convincing some dissociative practices and misunderstandings can seem.
I’ve questioned if part of wierwille’s interest with devil spirits was an awareness he was unable to resist the devil’s schemes. Considering his bad behavior that was well-known by way corps – maybe he realized his defenses were already compromised. A person who lives a life of crime and deceit is always looking over his shoulder. Is it possible that even if a person has a seared conscience they still might to worry or think about the possibility that something bad might happen, that someone – mortal or…supernatural will try to cause harm?
In Genesis 4: 6 & 7 we read of God talking to Cain. Cain was struggling with his conscience – the internal battle was evident on his face:
Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” Genesis 4: 6 & 7
I’ve heard Christian counselor Jay Adams abstract an idea from that passage – do good and you’ll feel good.
Leon F. Seltzer, Ph.D., holds doctorates in English and Psychology – he said there’s 4 chief methods for rationalizing—or even “moralizing”—our immoral behavior:
1. Reinterpreting Culpable Conduct
2. Obscuring Personal Agency
3. Disregarding or Distorting the Consequences of Immoral Action
4. Blaming and Dehumanizing the Victims of Evil Behavior
from: Psychology Today: 4 ways You Rationalize When You Act Against Your Conscience
I know the Bible indicates a seared conscience does not function properly. But still there are other aspects of the mind that must try to make sense of what happens and why as a form of self-defense…maybe that’s the impetus for rationalizing bad behavior and being vigilant for some danger or harm that one suspects or fears they may encounter – even if they’re not sure why they feel that way.
I heard a preacher say one of the best ways to prepare for spiritual battles is to live an upright morally sound life. See also Romans 12 , Ephesians 6
~ ~ ~ ~
*Perception:
Perception within psychology is not something we can measure directly, and it is a complex phenomenon. We may never know for sure the answers to these questions. However, as we evolve and learn more about our abilities and as science continues to develop, we are moving closer to a much deeper level of understanding.
From: https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/Perception-in-Psychology
~ ~ ~ ~
As a psychiatrist, I routinely hear about all sorts of unusual perceptual experiences, and not just from people who are psychotic. A wide variety of abnormal conditions as well as a great many normal but misinterpreted phenomena can cause distorted perceptions.
And yet we find our own subjective perceptions so persuasive that we are more willing to doubt the laws of physics than to doubt our own minds. We can’t help assuming that perception equals reality. People underestimate the capacity of our brains to create their own convincing realities. They underestimate how powerfully realistic some dissociative experiences, hallucinations, and other well-recognized mental/neural misperceptions can seem.
You could say that one major role of a psychiatrist is to persuade people to be skeptical about their own beliefs—that is, to critically examine the evidence for their assumptions and to not automatically believe their own thoughts and perceptions.
Perception and intuition:
We experience the world through our senses. Even though it's often unreliable, subjective perception is a crucial source of data about the world. Indeed, it is the source of our data about the world. Even when we practice science, we are still obtaining data through our senses. Science is just a method to minimize the distorting effects of our perceptions and intuitions and to approximate a more objective view of reality (as the philosopher Thomas Nagel put it: “the view from nowhere”
From: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-purpose/202008/how-do-we-know-what-is-real
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Raf
No. No he did not.
And he TOLD us as much when he said he no longer believed the words Holy or Bible on the cover of the book. From that point on, every. single. thing. he. dud. was. a. self-serving. con.
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oldiesman
I think at times he did, but, I believe the Lord works with regardless.
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
This reminds me of what someone told me about a priest holding mass right after he rapes an alter boy in the back room. She said the priest's crime doesn't stop Jesus from moving for his people. She said that Jesus the Lord is still there and comes in the Eucharist regardless of the sins of the priest, because he loves us and appears for our benefit. And he will deal with the priest at the judgment just like he will deal with you and me, and Victor Paul Wierwille.
This follows what I've been saying repeatedly in the Greasespot, that the teachings of the Way or any other bible group should stand or fall on their own irrespective of the sins of the preacher.
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OldSkool
Oh look a ravenous wolf...but he sure teaches some hot bible....
Can u make that make sense?
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waysider
Suppose I'm on my way to twig to give a teaching on I Timothy chapter 6, the chapter that details how a man of God should behave. As I'm cruising down the street, I spot a liquor store. There's just one guy behind the counter and no customers in sight. So, I think to myself, "Hey, this is a golden opportunity for a stick-up." So I run in, flash the gun, grab the cash and dash back out. I'm back on my way to twig. (I'll put 10% in the horn of plenty, of course.)
Will my teaching be more effective, less effective or unaffected? I mean, it's still the word, right?
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OldSkool
Not to mention we are told over and over again in scripture to turn away from such people.
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T-Bone
And that’s why in my opinion I say compared to all the other groups that use the Bible – The Way International stands alone in having nothing that stands up to close scrutiny.
And personally I cringe every time I hear that story of the priest.
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
Causing to Stumble
6“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Matthew 18
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oldiesman
Folks like us who have taken PFAL and are aware of the past teachings; some of us have been using and believing some of them for years, some have abandoned them, but for those like me who still believe parts; are supposed to reject them because of Wierwille's sins?
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waysider
How does this answer my question?
Choose only one.
a. More effective
b. Less effective
c. Unaffected
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OldSkool
If wierwilles teachings are Biblical then they are in the Bible..no wierwille needed...
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oldiesman
I would try to answer this hypothetical and say it's "unaffected" but I think it'd be more so up to the believing faith of the person preaching and the believing faith of the person receiving. Does the theft just before twig make the words of the preacher void to Almighty God? The scriptures say it does not.
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OldSkool
Believing doesn't negate evil.
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OldSkool
Believing doesn't negate evil
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waysider
Can you point to a scripture that supports this?
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OldSkool
There are copious instructions and qualifications to govern Church leadership's behavior. They are held to a higher standard. And yes, if a person lives like the devil and quotes bible verses they are false in every which way. Part of leadership role in the Church is to set an example in conduct and not word only.
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oldiesman
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
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waysider
It's not a hypothetical. I know of a very real, similar situation, though key details (not a liquor store, etc.) have been altered to retain ambiguity. As to how it ended, let's just say it involved an orange jumpsuit.
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OldSkool
As I said...if it's biblical it's in the Bible and no wierwille needed. Why prop a false prophet?
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waysider
So, then, do whatever you want and quote some scripture to CYA.
Got it!
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OldSkool
Your assuming a lot that what wierwille taught is agreement with scripture.
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OldSkool
Jesus taught by their fruits you shall know them in relation to ravenous wolves like wierwille so we can know to avoid them at all costs. Not they produce putrid fruit but teach God's word..so give heed.
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T-Bone
Yes his ministry was a self-serving con job – but it’s possible that in his own twisted way the Bible stimulated his creativity – concepts like a higher power, evil forces, and an unseen world all revolved around him...to pull a reverse-whammy on the teacher of the Advanced Class - wierwille didn't have a clue about the greatest secret battle in the world - fighting with one's inner demons.
Setting aside the fact that wierwille had the gift ministry of a hypocrite – and actions do speak louder than words, generally speaking I don’t think we humans are computer-like in our belief systems. There are inconsistencies, things that don’t make sense or follow logic, some things even contradictory. Now add to that mix a person who has had probably more than one big time psychological disorder – and in wierwille’s case we’ve got a harmful and controlling charismatic cult-leader of epic proportions.
I shy away from saying anything conclusive about what wierwille believed. People can differ on how they define God or a higher power or how the universe works. As far as understanding malignant narcissism or thinking like a sociopath – that’s totally foreign to me.
wierwille may have been so deluded that in the milieu of the little cult-world he created for himself the Bible fueled his imagination. I don’t think he was always trying to justify his actions to others or himself – he had no qualms about doing whatever he did. He was just testifying about having a great big wonderful God - - himself.
Ezekiel 14:4 talks about the idols people create in their hearts. Perhaps wierwille’s God was himself and he just never acknowledged it – he had difficulty separating fact from fiction, truth from lies anyway.
And in John 16:2 Jesus spoke of people killing His followers thinking they’re offering a service to God…yeah generally religions can get pretty hypocritical when one group goes after another because they don’t believe the same way.
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