I don't think I can answer your questions. My general point is, sin doesn't stop Christ from working and being there for you. The rape 30 minutes before doesn't stop Christ from doing his work. In the Roman Catholic faith, they believe his presence is completely substantial (in every form) regardless of the sins of the priest.
Of course, Christ doesn't require ceremony and ritual to do his work. Indeed, his presence is completely substantial.
Let all churches dispense with the antiseptic verbiage of rape apologetics. Let them allow Christ to work through them so that they never again commit the linguistic crime that is "sodomitic session." Let the priestly class stop obfuscating and condescending. Let them describe their activities as they are: Rape.
I believe Christ works and is willing to work regardless of the sinful or non-sinful state another man may be in. One example that was conveyed to me is through the Roman Catholic Mass. The example given to me was pretty crude. A priest is having a sodomitic session with an altar boy. Half hour later, they're serving in the Mass. Does Christ not appear because of that sodomitical act? NO, He is there. Why? Because he loves YOU. You came to that mass because you want to worship Him, and so, he is going to be there for YOU. The takeaway is: Christ works when we have Faith in Him; and it isn't sin that ties his hands, it's the lack of Faith.
I believe Christ works and is willing to work regardless of the sinful or non-sinful state another man may be in. One example that was conveyed to me is through the Roman Catholic Mass. The example given to me was pretty crude. A priest is having a sodomitic session with an altar boy. Half hour later, they're serving in the Mass. Does Christ not appear because of that sodomitical act? NO, He is there. Why? Because he loves YOU. You came to that mass because you want to worship Him, and so, he is going to be there for YOU. The takeaway is: Christ works when we have Faith in Him; and it isn't sin that ties his hands, it's the lack of Faith.
Does the priest have faith in Christ while raping the child? I'll bet he will assure you that he does. He probably has something to teach you, too. All the teaching. All the raping. All the evil.
I don't think I can answer your questions. My general point is, sin doesn't stop Christ from working and being there for you. The rape 30 minutes before doesn't stop Christ from doing his work. In the Roman Catholic faith, they believe his presence is completely substantial (in every form) regardless of the sins of the priest.
But it could cause someone to stumble - see. Matthew 18 - causing a little one to stumble - what does Christ think about your scenario?!?! ….And reconsider that idea - it hits me as thinking I can sit back and do whatever I want to whoever I want and just let Christ pick up the pieces afterwards
I don't think I can answer your questions. My general point is, sin doesn't stop Christ from working and being there for you. The rape 30 minutes before doesn't stop Christ from doing his work. In the Roman Catholic faith, they believe his presence is completely substantial (in every form) regardless of the sins of the priest.
Wierwille's personal doctrine was "Anything is okay if you can find a way to personally rationalize it."
In contrast, consider, if you will, the words of John Donne:
“No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
I am not ignoring anything in history. I simply see the historical approach to the canon as lacking data for the very earliest centuries. I see the First Century comments by the Biblical writers that do shed light on this period of time.
BOTH views help us.
The secular and historical sources are very skimpy on data earlier than the 3rd century. Are you aware of that?
Actually the young minister from city on a hill I’ve been listening to with his cults class addresses this. There are tons of first century writers. Not skimpy data at all.
I believe Christ works and is willing to work regardless of the sinful or non-sinful state another man may be in. One example that was conveyed to me is through the Roman Catholic Mass. The example given to me was pretty crude. A priest is having a sodomitic session with an altar boy. Half hour later, they're serving in the Mass. Does Christ not appear because of that sodomitical act? NO, He is there. Why? Because he loves YOU. You came to that mass because you want to worship Him, and so, he is going to be there for YOU. The takeaway is: Christ works when we have Faith in Him; and it isn't sin that ties his hands, it's the lack of Faith.
I don't think I can answer your questions. My general point is, sin doesn't stop Christ from working and being there for you. The rape 30 minutes before doesn't stop Christ from doing his work. In the Roman Catholic faith, they believe his presence is completely substantial (in every form) regardless of the sins of the priest.
Wasn't it stated, somewhere in one of the classes, that you can't receive revelation when you're out of fellowship? I guess there must be an exceptions clause that covers "Big Jobs".
Wasn't it stated, somewhere in one of the classes, that you can't receive revelation when you're out of fellowship? I guess there must be an exceptions clause that covers "Big Jobs".
But it could cause someone to stumble - see. Matthew 18 - causing a little one to stumble - what does Christ think about your scenario?!?! ….And reconsider that idea - it hits me as thinking I can sit back and do whatever I want to whoever I want and just let Christ pick up the pieces afterwards
Provided that you're born again, Matthew 18 doesn't apply to you. Since it was before Pentecost, "the church of God" HAS no penalties. However, Jesus gave strong warnings and he didn't qualify them. So, this "sin all you want and God Almighty will give all the Big Jobs and exempt you from punishment" thing is invented- and the first man who set it up, big surprise, was vpw, who sinned all he wanted, claimed God Almighty gave him the Big Job, and genuinely wondered on his deathbed where he'd stumbled and why he was unable to get healing. Seriously- DECADES of sin and he couldn't find one. Then again, he also claimed he'd never taken an aspirin IN HIS LIFE and never taken a sick day IN HIS LIFE.
There's a story where some Native American is asked what a conscience is. He replies that it's a 3-cornered thing in here, signalling to his chest. He said that when he did wrong, it turned and the corners hurt him. But if he KEPT doing wrong, then the corners wore down and it STOPPED hurting.
There's no exception from punishment that I know of in the RC church, except possible cases of martyrdom. From what I've heard, the RC Church teaches most all (all without exception) go to purgatory, or hell itself. It's apparently very rare that someone directly goes to heaven and be with Jesus immediately after death, even when they confess all their sins and be absolved from the priest. So, pray to Jesus for mercy, and ask to be with Him forever; but you still must go through the cleansing process Jesus set up for you to enter the pearly gates. Don't ask me how, or where it is in the scriptures because I don't know. I'm still struggling with this.
There's no exception from punishment that I know of in the RC church, except possible cases of martyrdom. From what I've heard, the RC Church teaches most all (all without exception) go to purgatory, or hell itself. It's apparently very rare that someone directly goes to heaven and be with Jesus immediately after death, even when they confess all their sins and be absolved from the priest. So, pray to Jesus for mercy, and ask to be with Him forever; but you still must go through the cleansing process Jesus set up for you to enter the pearly gates. Don't ask me how, or where it is in the scriptures because I don't know. I'm still struggling with this.
From what I've heard and experienced the RC church doesn't go exclusively with the scriptures for everything; they also consider and obtain information from tradition, popes, counsels, investigations of apparitions, what they believe to be newer revelation, etc. Am still investigating if there are any scriptures that the RC church relates to purgatory.
From what I've heard and experienced the RC church doesn't go exclusively with the scriptures for everything; they also consider and obtain information from tradition, popes, counsels, investigations of apparitions, what they believe to be newer revelation, etc. Am still investigating if there are any scriptures that the RC church relates to purgatory.
A Catholic friend just sent me this email.. now gotta do more research why the powers that were, left this book out of the King James and other versions. Am sure there's an interesting story behind it. I should have asked VPW why...when he had his arm around me ... LOLOL
It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins. —2 Maccabees 12:4
O God, the Creator and Redeemer of all the faithful, grant to the souls of Your servants and handmaids departed the full remission of their sins, that, through our devout prayers, they may obtain the pardon, which they have always desired, Who live and reign, world without end. Amen.Collect of the First Mass on All Souls Day from the Roman Missal of Saint Pius V
Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen. Prayers for the Bystanders at the Grave from the Roman Ritual of Saint Pius V
It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins. —2 Maccabees 12:4
For those interested in Scripture, the bigger picture on its history, and what may have been influential to the ancient authors – you might want to check outThe Encyclopedia of Lost and Rejected Scriptures: The Pseudepigrapha and Apocrypha by Joseph B. Lumpkin ....I have a hardbound copy and a Kindle version as well…My son was into it before me – and we’ve had a lot of thought-provoking discussions over it...it’s like time-travel in literary form.
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Twinky
I haven't been following this thread but had a peek. This whole thread is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the canon of scripture. But I did note the following, originally posted by our
waysider
Ahhh, those were the days.
waysider
Bake 'em away, toys.
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Nathan_Jr
The questions are rhetorical.
Of course, Christ doesn't require ceremony and ritual to do his work. Indeed, his presence is completely substantial.
Let all churches dispense with the antiseptic verbiage of rape apologetics. Let them allow Christ to work through them so that they never again commit the linguistic crime that is "sodomitic session." Let the priestly class stop obfuscating and condescending. Let them describe their activities as they are: Rape.
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Nathan_Jr
Sodomitic session sounds like something one might register and make an appointment for. No child signs up for rape.
The linguistic acrobatics of rape apologetics are evil.
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Nathan_Jr
Does the priest have faith in Christ while raping the child? I'll bet he will assure you that he does. He probably has something to teach you, too. All the teaching. All the raping. All the evil.
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T-Bone
But it could cause someone to stumble - see. Matthew 18 - causing a little one to stumble - what does Christ think about your scenario?!?! ….And reconsider that idea - it hits me as thinking I can sit back and do whatever I want to whoever I want and just let Christ pick up the pieces afterwards
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Nathan_Jr
No one needs or wants the priest who rapes. Christ doesn't. The boy with the torn rectum doesn't. Let the priests stop with the child f… king.
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waysider
Wierwille's personal doctrine was "Anything is okay if you can find a way to personally rationalize it."
In contrast, consider, if you will, the words of John Donne:
“No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
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chockfull
Actually the young minister from city on a hill I’ve been listening to with his cults class addresses this. There are tons of first century writers. Not skimpy data at all.
Are you aware of that?
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So_crates
So, you're born again, so you're going to heaven.
According to Mike, regardless of the sins you commit, God will still give you "big jobs".
According to you, Christ "works" and "appears" despite our sins when we have faith.
So, the point of studying the bible and living a good Christian life is...what? To, as Mike claims, amass as many Scooby snacks as we can?
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Raf
Ok, seriously, everyone who was there for the original Mike wars, is this what I looked and sounded like?
Wow.
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chockfull
So we are back full circle to Bill Cosby? He rapes but he saves? Hopefully he saves more than he rapes?
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waysider
On the topic of "Big Jobs":
Wasn't it stated, somewhere in one of the classes, that you can't receive revelation when you're out of fellowship? I guess there must be an exceptions clause that covers "Big Jobs".
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Nathan_Jr
Also, something about SIT is a prerequisite for revelation. Keys to walking something something. There was a cartoon that proved it.
shabba shabba kilimanjaro lo shonta
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WordWolf
According to one method of thinking....
Provided that you're born again, Matthew 18 doesn't apply to you. Since it was before Pentecost, "the church of God" HAS no penalties. However, Jesus gave strong warnings and he didn't qualify them. So, this "sin all you want and God Almighty will give all the Big Jobs and exempt you from punishment" thing is invented- and the first man who set it up, big surprise, was vpw, who sinned all he wanted, claimed God Almighty gave him the Big Job, and genuinely wondered on his deathbed where he'd stumbled and why he was unable to get healing. Seriously- DECADES of sin and he couldn't find one. Then again, he also claimed he'd never taken an aspirin IN HIS LIFE and never taken a sick day IN HIS LIFE.
There's a story where some Native American is asked what a conscience is. He replies that it's a 3-cornered thing in here, signalling to his chest. He said that when he did wrong, it turned and the corners hurt him. But if he KEPT doing wrong, then the corners wore down and it STOPPED hurting.
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oldiesman
There's no exception from punishment that I know of in the RC church, except possible cases of martyrdom. From what I've heard, the RC Church teaches most all (all without exception) go to purgatory, or hell itself. It's apparently very rare that someone directly goes to heaven and be with Jesus immediately after death, even when they confess all their sins and be absolved from the priest. So, pray to Jesus for mercy, and ask to be with Him forever; but you still must go through the cleansing process Jesus set up for you to enter the pearly gates. Don't ask me how, or where it is in the scriptures because I don't know. I'm still struggling with this.
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Mike
Yeah!
And whatever happened to the Topic Police when you really need them ?
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T-Bone
where's the nearest Dunkin' Donuts?
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OldSkool
Theyre usually doing excellor sessions.
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Nathan_Jr
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TLC
If there were any such thing as a '"cleansing process," why might you (or anyone else) suppose that it so plainly omitted from Heb. 9:27?
...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment...
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oldiesman
From what I've heard and experienced the RC church doesn't go exclusively with the scriptures for everything; they also consider and obtain information from tradition, popes, counsels, investigations of apparitions, what they believe to be newer revelation, etc. Am still investigating if there are any scriptures that the RC church relates to purgatory.
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TLC
Dante's writings are not scriptural... lol.
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oldiesman
Am also investigating the possibility that the scriptures are not finite. Sort of like putting the Holy Spirit in a box?
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oldiesman
A Catholic friend just sent me this email.. now gotta do more research why the powers that were, left this book out of the King James and other versions. Am sure there's an interesting story behind it. I should have asked VPW why...when he had his arm around me ... LOLOL
It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins. — 2 Maccabees 12:4
O God, the Creator and Redeemer of all the faithful, grant to the souls of Your servants and handmaids departed the full remission of their sins, that, through our devout prayers, they may obtain the pardon, which they have always desired, Who live and reign, world without end. Amen. Collect of the First Mass on All Souls Day from the Roman Missal of Saint Pius V
Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen. Prayers for the Bystanders at the Grave from the Roman Ritual of Saint Pius V
It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins. — 2 Maccabees 12:4
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T-Bone
For those interested in Scripture, the bigger picture on its history, and what may have been influential to the ancient authors – you might want to check out The Encyclopedia of Lost and Rejected Scriptures: The Pseudepigrapha and Apocrypha by Joseph B. Lumpkin ....I have a hardbound copy and a Kindle version as well…My son was into it before me – and we’ve had a lot of thought-provoking discussions over it...it’s like time-travel in literary form.
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