If the appeal is "well, I feel good when I try to follow this", then I'd like to point out vpw's own words, that you can get a good feeling on a psychiatrist's couch, which he was dismissing at the time.
As for "it's in a neat package", well, I don't know who guaranteed truth would be in a neat package. If anything, cons would be in a neater package because style counts with a counterfeit.
However, there's lots of programs in lots of churches. They've been discussed over the years in the GSC by those who actually cared. So, if the idea is "it's a neat package so it must be true", then there's a bunch of other "true" programs out there to try, and some of them are offered 100% FREE with no obligations!
Really, excuses, excuses. If one is going to be dogmatic about adhering to a delusion, one should at least be proud of their decision, not try to deceive themselves or anyone else.
If the appeal is "well, I feel good when I try to follow this", then I'd like to point out vpw's own words, that you can get a good feeling on a psychiatrist's couch, which he was dismissing at the time.
As for "it's in a neat package", well, I don't know who guaranteed truth would be in a neat package. If anything, cons would be in a neater package because style counts with a counterfeit.
However, there's lots of programs in lots of churches. They've been discussed over the years in the GSC by those who actually cared. So, if the idea is "it's a neat package so it must be true", then there's a bunch of other "true" programs out there to try, and some of them are offered 100% FREE with no obligations!
Really, excuses, excuses. If one is going to be dogmatic about adhering to a delusion, one should at least be proud of their decision, not try to deceive themselves or anyone else.
Im thinking as neat as it's going to get is the Bibles we have today...thats the only neat little package required for me. I think that neat little package stuff really appeals to the "lazy" tendancies in people...and I have them too. I mean, I never double checked anything VPW said or martindale, etc...just took them at their word that it was the truth and I was called out to receive it. I think thats why the way international preys on young folks. wierwille hijacked the hippies, vern/rupp/greene/priester are heavily promoting young idealistic ministry kids who have only known TWI. God never promised a neat little package. Instead he tells us to study to show ourlves approved, to take heed to ourselves to make sure we are not living the lie and are standing on sound doctrine, to prove all things and hold fast the good, to try the spirits to see if they are really of God. Never anything about that neat little package...and thats just what they promised. My entire time in the way international I heard over and over again people fawning about wierwille, that he had worked for tirelessly for decades to put it all together so we wouldnt have to...literally...that goes around the campfire. Complete bullshonta. But at one point most all of took that hook right along with the bait.
For those who wonder what the point is, I'll make some of it obvious.
So, we all know, beyond any REASONABLE doubt, that the "1942 promise" was neither from 1942 nor any kind of "promise." We know it was a fraud through and through, and it was used to prop up a man who was a fraud through and through, who used it to trick God's people out of their time and money, and focus them on himself rather than where they were supposed to focus. We all know the plagiarizing rapist made up the claim- and it wasn't even a very convincing lie- and was probably amazed at how far it went. So, when the man whose sole authority stemmed either from his fake "promise" or his degree mill "doctorate" wants us to buy into his stuff- since we NOW know better- we don't fall for it.
What about the few people who STILL fall for it?
Some of them fall for it a little, and mainly talk about God Almighty, with this delusion as a minor thing in their lives. For that tiny handful who actually double down on delusion, who voluntarily buy into the fake "promise" even after it's been discredited (both thoroughly and throughly), well, those people are dedicating their lives to something PROVEN to be a lie, a fake, a sham, a con.
For those who know better, it's sad to watch people like that. They try to convince other people that they're not completely disproven, and have to creatively reinterpret anything better than complete failure as a rousing success (like even 1 person thinking a degree mill wasn't a degree mill), and insist to themselves that everyone else out there- those with more inside information than them, those smarter than them, those who know all the in-house secrets- all of those people are actually the ones who are wrong and don't know what's going on. Rather than growing as they get older, they have to cling dogmatically to the "nice feelings" of the twi hippie years, courtesy of well-meaning, loving Christians who were fooled by vpw and who were everything good about twi- and never actually giving them the credit, instead giving it to vpw who tried to make them slave labor because they were too young and naive.
Ultimately, this problem is self-correcting. The numbers of people who know better still increase. The numbers of people who buy into this does NOT significantly increase, and eventually, this problem will "age out." twi's retirement program of "our people will work until they die" also works for people who dedicate their lives to a fake "promise" that's a proven LIE. They will spend their remaining years trying to get others to buy into their hogwash, then they will drop dead. Just as twi and vpw, on a historical scale, don't even register a blip, they will be an anecdote, told amusingly decades later, among people who wondered what could drive someone so far into delusion.
For those who wonder what the point is, I'll make some of it obvious.
So, we all know, beyond any REASONABLE doubt, that the "1942 promise" was neither from 1942 nor any kind of "promise." We know it was a fraud through and through, and it was used to prop up a man who was a fraud through and through, who used it to trick God's people out of their time and money, and focus them on himself rather than where they were supposed to focus. We all know the plagiarizing rapist made up the claim- and it wasn't even a very convincing lie- and was probably amazed at how far it went. So, when the man whose sole authority stemmed either from his fake "promise" or his degree mill "doctorate" wants us to buy into his stuff- since we NOW know better- we don't fall for it.
What about the few people who STILL fall for it?
Some of them fall for it a little, and mainly talk about God Almighty, with this delusion as a minor thing in their lives. For that tiny handful who actually double down on delusion, who voluntarily buy into the fake "promise" even after it's been discredited (both thoroughly and throughly), well, those people are dedicating their lives to something PROVEN to be a lie, a fake, a sham, a con.
For those who know better, it's sad to watch people like that. They try to convince other people that they're not completely disproven, and have to creatively reinterpret anything better than complete failure as a rousing success (like even 1 person thinking a degree mill wasn't a degree mill), and insist to themselves that everyone else out there- those with more inside information than them, those smarter than them, those who know all the in-house secrets- all of those people are actually the ones who are wrong and don't know what's going on. Rather than growing as they get older, they have to cling dogmatically to the "nice feelings" of the twi hippie years, courtesy of well-meaning, loving Christians who were fooled by vpw and who were everything good about twi- and never actually giving them the credit, instead giving it to vpw who tried to make them slave labor because they were too young and naive.
Ultimately, this problem is self-correcting. The numbers of people who know better still increase. The numbers of people who buy into this does NOT significantly increase, and eventually, this problem will "age out." twi's retirement program of "our people will work until they die" also works for people who dedicate their lives to a fake "promise" that's a proven LIE. They will spend their remaining years trying to get others to buy into their hogwash, then they will drop dead. Just as twi and vpw, on a historical scale, don't even register a blip, they will be an anecdote, told amusingly decades later, among people who wondered what could drive someone so far into delusion.
I think the whitewash and the VPW idolatry blinds the worker mice to run on the hamster wheels. People discount any truth we present like Mike by saying it’s hate motivated.
Its not. It’s truth motivated. But truth to a VPW idolater looks like hate and is rejected. They don’t care he was an adulterer or plagiarist. They tune out anyone who goes there and ignore any truth or point.
Its fine. I am not motivated to save the world just a couple of free thinkers in the world. There are so many things in nature that disguise themselves to trap victims. They are going to fall for the disguise and put their lives on a similar path to my past and I can’t do anything about it. Except tell the truth.
On a recent search I ran across the linked in of the current trunk coordinator. His background is 100% sales. His job description is push growth. He was ordained in 2020. That was before the Vern takeover and didn’t change after.
Keep me as far away from bastards like this for the rest of my life please God. I have wasted far too much of my life propping up the exploits of megalomaniacs.
I think the whitewash and the VPW idolatry blinds the worker mice to run on the hamster wheels. People discount any truth we present like Mike by saying it’s hate motivated.
Its not. It’s truth motivated. But truth to a VPW idolater looks like hate and is rejected. They don’t care he was an adulterer or plagiarist. They tune out anyone who goes there and ignore any truth or point.
Its fine. I am not motivated to save the world just a couple of free thinkers in the world. There are so many things in nature that disguise themselves to trap victims. They are going to fall for the disguise and put their lives on a similar path to my past and I can’t do anything about it. Except tell the truth.
I Timothy 3:2 a bishop must be blameless, the husband of ONE WIFE
VPW is disqualified from Gods qualifications for any leadership in Christs body due to this NEVER being true about his life.
I Tim 3:12 gives the same qualifications for a deacon.
All of this is easily verified by many and more than one book as well as accounts on this website.
The ONLY way PFAL would be special and endorsed by God would be if God had never inspired Timothy to be written.
But Wierwille idolators are incapable of actually completing this logic cycle. Their minds are stunted from many years of feeding it bullshonta in the form of deifying the man’s works.
Ok, so vpw was a pervert, a drunkard, a liar, a rapist, a plagiarist, and other criminally-bar things, to say nothing of how Biblically bad and sinful those things were.
Someone tried to COMPARTMENTALIZE the life of vpw. So, when vpw was in a private place raping, that was "his old man nature." An hour later, when he was at the podium teaching, vpw's "new man nature" was UNAFFECTED by that and was doing teachings greatly superior to anywhere else.
First of all, the teachings were equaled and bettered in other places, because the vpw ones were all plagiarized from other sources, So, elsewhere and at that moment, some Christians were teaching equally well, and other Christians were teaching BETTER, since vpw was never better than his best plagiarized source.
Second, Christians are warned of the leaven principle lots of times, evil in one's life in ONE place affects the ENTIRE life, just as a little leaven leavens the whole lump. In the actual Bible, there's no "and the preacher was a criminal, taught some great Bible, then went back and committed more crimes, and God Almighty was ok with that and covered his tracks and gave him revelation and was ok with this criminal as His spokesman."
So, the ridiculous idea on the table right now is that one can take the same man, a serial criminal, a serial sinner, rapist, molester, simonist, drunkard, and view him as God's Spokesman because there's no direct connection in his life between the sinning and the preaching, so God Almighty is ok with COMPARTMENTALIZING a man's life so that a career criminal is acceptable as the spokesman for God Almighty.
Well, you'd think a claim like that would have a verse to try to quote, except that concept's far from the Bible. How about a claim that you know God Almighty is cool with that because the criminal did a bunch of Mighty Miracles in between the rapes and so on, so we know God was energizing the miracles in between and seems complicit with the criminal's evil deeds? Well, the best we get, when asked, is that he was a "success" when you focused exclusively on his "new man nature." Does this mean miracles? No, when asked, the best we got was that the teachings were really good.
So, we know the criminal was doing God's work because the man produced some good teachings. But that's not proof of ANYTHING! All the good stuff is KNOWN to have been PLAGIARIZED. It was the work of a holy photocopy machine! But on the basis of some good teachings, we're supposed to give a free pass to an alcoholic rapist to commit all sorts of sins and crimes on the ministry dime.
waysider: "Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure.
Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success."
--------------------------------------
skyrider:
"When was wierwille "in fellowship?"
When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?
For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?"
Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982?
Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention."
"What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh.
He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe).
YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles.
The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on?
Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man."
Charity: "On top of the time vp actually spent on doing all of the above is the time he spent thinking about them before, during and after - his persistent cravings and lustful desires, his devious and cunning planning, his sick anticipation, his self-proclaimed conquests, etc. Someone who commits so many abhorrent acts for so long without repentance has spent a huge amount of his mental energy dwelling in darkness. As a narcissist, his need to be the center of attraction and to feel superior had to be forefront in his mind. It's hard to think that his new man ever saw the light of day. "
So crates: "So you're saying Saint Vic was most in fellowship when he was being a phony, being hypocritical, and when he was ripping off other people's work. SMH. "
skyrider: "TRANSLATION: Mike makes these grandiose declarations about wierwille's life and "greatness"..... but then gives evasive replies to back up wierwille's new man nature in Christ. This evasiveness has all the hallmarks of a snake oil representative selling a product from a snake oil company. Always barking bold assertions of wierwille's wares, but only in the shadowy form of generalities. Pfffttt."
"wierwille's concept of in/out of fellowship are comical. It was as if you could do whatever you wanted as long as your believing wasnt compromised and you were acting out of love. It's almost like you could be in fellowship, and that would equate to standing under a flood light, and then be out of fellowhip, and that would equate to standing out of the floodlight in the dark. What kind of non-sensical garbage is that...because meanwhile the sinful and destructive behavior never stopped with wierwille. It didn't stop with martindale. It didnt stop with rosalile because she covered it all up, spending vast sums of donations on lawyer fees and out of court settlements. Bottom line is when you ask for forgiveness it's accompanied by the fruits meet for repentance, as John The Baptist stated. In other words, the sinful actions stop and there is a corresponding change of heart that led to the action in the first place so the action isn't repeated. Ive never come across any indication of that sort of thing with wierwille...check this..
wierwille taught martindale to be a sexual predator. Theoretically, had wierwille truly repented his repentance would have been followed with him addressing the ministry (or something similar) appropriately so they no longer think his former sinful ways are justifiabally correct. Maybe mike can find proof of wierwille doint this sort of thing in one of his files, but Ive never seen any indication of a change from any of the top honchos...wierwille, martindale, rosalie who was involved never publicly repented...etc. "
================================
There were entire threads relevant to this. One was skyrider's "To the very end- Wierwille's Wantonness."
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WordWolf
BTW,
here's one for free.
If the appeal is "well, I feel good when I try to follow this", then I'd like to point out vpw's own words, that you can get a good feeling on a psychiatrist's couch, which he was dismissing at the time.
As for "it's in a neat package", well, I don't know who guaranteed truth would be in a neat package. If anything, cons would be in a neater package because style counts with a counterfeit.
However, there's lots of programs in lots of churches. They've been discussed over the years in the GSC by those who actually cared. So, if the idea is "it's a neat package so it must be true", then there's a bunch of other "true" programs out there to try, and some of them are offered 100% FREE with no obligations!
Really, excuses, excuses. If one is going to be dogmatic about adhering to a delusion, one should at least be proud of their decision, not try to deceive themselves or anyone else.
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chockfull
Yes. I already took down my lo shanta tree. Since it is a fake one it goes back into the zip bag.
But maybe I should set it free so each one can reach one and it could double in size!
Way Trees Over The World!
Oh wait you said delusion “free” my bad.
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OldSkool
Im thinking as neat as it's going to get is the Bibles we have today...thats the only neat little package required for me. I think that neat little package stuff really appeals to the "lazy" tendancies in people...and I have them too. I mean, I never double checked anything VPW said or martindale, etc...just took them at their word that it was the truth and I was called out to receive it. I think thats why the way international preys on young folks. wierwille hijacked the hippies, vern/rupp/greene/priester are heavily promoting young idealistic ministry kids who have only known TWI. God never promised a neat little package. Instead he tells us to study to show ourlves approved, to take heed to ourselves to make sure we are not living the lie and are standing on sound doctrine, to prove all things and hold fast the good, to try the spirits to see if they are really of God. Never anything about that neat little package...and thats just what they promised. My entire time in the way international I heard over and over again people fawning about wierwille, that he had worked for tirelessly for decades to put it all together so we wouldnt have to...literally...that goes around the campfire. Complete bullshonta. But at one point most all of took that hook right along with the bait.
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WordWolf
For those who wonder what the point is, I'll make some of it obvious.
So, we all know, beyond any REASONABLE doubt, that the "1942 promise" was neither from 1942 nor any kind of "promise." We know it was a fraud through and through, and it was used to prop up a man who was a fraud through and through, who used it to trick God's people out of their time and money, and focus them on himself rather than where they were supposed to focus. We all know the plagiarizing rapist made up the claim- and it wasn't even a very convincing lie- and was probably amazed at how far it went. So, when the man whose sole authority stemmed either from his fake "promise" or his degree mill "doctorate" wants us to buy into his stuff- since we NOW know better- we don't fall for it.
What about the few people who STILL fall for it?
Some of them fall for it a little, and mainly talk about God Almighty, with this delusion as a minor thing in their lives. For that tiny handful who actually double down on delusion, who voluntarily buy into the fake "promise" even after it's been discredited (both thoroughly and throughly), well, those people are dedicating their lives to something PROVEN to be a lie, a fake, a sham, a con.
For those who know better, it's sad to watch people like that. They try to convince other people that they're not completely disproven, and have to creatively reinterpret anything better than complete failure as a rousing success (like even 1 person thinking a degree mill wasn't a degree mill), and insist to themselves that everyone else out there- those with more inside information than them, those smarter than them, those who know all the in-house secrets- all of those people are actually the ones who are wrong and don't know what's going on. Rather than growing as they get older, they have to cling dogmatically to the "nice feelings" of the twi hippie years, courtesy of well-meaning, loving Christians who were fooled by vpw and who were everything good about twi- and never actually giving them the credit, instead giving it to vpw who tried to make them slave labor because they were too young and naive.
Ultimately, this problem is self-correcting. The numbers of people who know better still increase. The numbers of people who buy into this does NOT significantly increase, and eventually, this problem will "age out." twi's retirement program of "our people will work until they die" also works for people who dedicate their lives to a fake "promise" that's a proven LIE. They will spend their remaining years trying to get others to buy into their hogwash, then they will drop dead. Just as twi and vpw, on a historical scale, don't even register a blip, they will be an anecdote, told amusingly decades later, among people who wondered what could drive someone so far into delusion.
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chockfull
I think the whitewash and the VPW idolatry blinds the worker mice to run on the hamster wheels. People discount any truth we present like Mike by saying it’s hate motivated.
Its not. It’s truth motivated. But truth to a VPW idolater looks like hate and is rejected. They don’t care he was an adulterer or plagiarist. They tune out anyone who goes there and ignore any truth or point.
Its fine. I am not motivated to save the world just a couple of free thinkers in the world. There are so many things in nature that disguise themselves to trap victims. They are going to fall for the disguise and put their lives on a similar path to my past and I can’t do anything about it. Except tell the truth.
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waysider
I must be at McDonalds 'cause "I'm lovin' it!".
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chockfull
On a recent search I ran across the linked in of the current trunk coordinator. His background is 100% sales. His job description is push growth. He was ordained in 2020. That was before the Vern takeover and didn’t change after.
Keep me as far away from bastards like this for the rest of my life please God. I have wasted far too much of my life propping up the exploits of megalomaniacs.
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WordWolf
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chockfull
I Timothy 3:2 a bishop must be blameless, the husband of ONE WIFE
VPW is disqualified from Gods qualifications for any leadership in Christs body due to this NEVER being true about his life.
I Tim 3:12 gives the same qualifications for a deacon.
All of this is easily verified by many and more than one book as well as accounts on this website.
The ONLY way PFAL would be special and endorsed by God would be if God had never inspired Timothy to be written.
But Wierwille idolators are incapable of actually completing this logic cycle. Their minds are stunted from many years of feeding it bullshonta in the form of deifying the man’s works.
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waysider
Something, something, something, snowball's chance in hell, something.
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WordWolf
Ok, so vpw was a pervert, a drunkard, a liar, a rapist, a plagiarist, and other criminally-bar things, to say nothing of how Biblically bad and sinful those things were.
Someone tried to COMPARTMENTALIZE the life of vpw. So, when vpw was in a private place raping, that was "his old man nature." An hour later, when he was at the podium teaching, vpw's "new man nature" was UNAFFECTED by that and was doing teachings greatly superior to anywhere else.
First of all, the teachings were equaled and bettered in other places, because the vpw ones were all plagiarized from other sources, So, elsewhere and at that moment, some Christians were teaching equally well, and other Christians were teaching BETTER, since vpw was never better than his best plagiarized source.
Second, Christians are warned of the leaven principle lots of times, evil in one's life in ONE place affects the ENTIRE life, just as a little leaven leavens the whole lump. In the actual Bible, there's no "and the preacher was a criminal, taught some great Bible, then went back and committed more crimes, and God Almighty was ok with that and covered his tracks and gave him revelation and was ok with this criminal as His spokesman."
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WordWolf
So, the ridiculous idea on the table right now is that one can take the same man, a serial criminal, a serial sinner, rapist, molester, simonist, drunkard, and view him as God's Spokesman because there's no direct connection in his life between the sinning and the preaching, so God Almighty is ok with COMPARTMENTALIZING a man's life so that a career criminal is acceptable as the spokesman for God Almighty.
Well, you'd think a claim like that would have a verse to try to quote, except that concept's far from the Bible. How about a claim that you know God Almighty is cool with that because the criminal did a bunch of Mighty Miracles in between the rapes and so on, so we know God was energizing the miracles in between and seems complicit with the criminal's evil deeds? Well, the best we get, when asked, is that he was a "success" when you focused exclusively on his "new man nature." Does this mean miracles? No, when asked, the best we got was that the teachings were really good.
So, we know the criminal was doing God's work because the man produced some good teachings. But that's not proof of ANYTHING! All the good stuff is KNOWN to have been PLAGIARIZED. It was the work of a holy photocopy machine! But on the basis of some good teachings, we're supposed to give a free pass to an alcoholic rapist to commit all sorts of sins and crimes on the ministry dime.
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WordWolf
waysider: "Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure.
Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success."
--------------------------------------
skyrider:
"When was wierwille "in fellowship?"
When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?
For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?"
Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982?
Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention."
===========================================================
skyrider:
"What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh.
He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe).
YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles.
The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on?
Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man."
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Charity: "On top of the time vp actually spent on doing all of the above is the time he spent thinking about them before, during and after - his persistent cravings and lustful desires, his devious and cunning planning, his sick anticipation, his self-proclaimed conquests, etc. Someone who commits so many abhorrent acts for so long without repentance has spent a huge amount of his mental energy dwelling in darkness. As a narcissist, his need to be the center of attraction and to feel superior had to be forefront in his mind. It's hard to think that his new man ever saw the light of day. "
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So crates: "So you're saying Saint Vic was most in fellowship when he was being a phony, being hypocritical, and when he was ripping off other people's work. SMH. "
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skyrider: "TRANSLATION: Mike makes these grandiose declarations about wierwille's life and "greatness"..... but then gives evasive replies to back up wierwille's new man nature in Christ. This evasiveness has all the hallmarks of a snake oil representative selling a product from a snake oil company. Always barking bold assertions of wierwille's wares, but only in the shadowy form of generalities. Pfffttt."
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OldSkool:
"wierwille's concept of in/out of fellowship are comical. It was as if you could do whatever you wanted as long as your believing wasnt compromised and you were acting out of love. It's almost like you could be in fellowship, and that would equate to standing under a flood light, and then be out of fellowhip, and that would equate to standing out of the floodlight in the dark. What kind of non-sensical garbage is that...because meanwhile the sinful and destructive behavior never stopped with wierwille. It didn't stop with martindale. It didnt stop with rosalile because she covered it all up, spending vast sums of donations on lawyer fees and out of court settlements. Bottom line is when you ask for forgiveness it's accompanied by the fruits meet for repentance, as John The Baptist stated. In other words, the sinful actions stop and there is a corresponding change of heart that led to the action in the first place so the action isn't repeated. Ive never come across any indication of that sort of thing with wierwille...check this..
wierwille taught martindale to be a sexual predator. Theoretically, had wierwille truly repented his repentance would have been followed with him addressing the ministry (or something similar) appropriately so they no longer think his former sinful ways are justifiabally correct. Maybe mike can find proof of wierwille doint this sort of thing in one of his files, but Ive never seen any indication of a change from any of the top honchos...wierwille, martindale, rosalie who was involved never publicly repented...etc. "
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There were entire threads relevant to this. One was skyrider's "To the very end- Wierwille's Wantonness."
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24239-to-the-very-endwierwilles-wantonness/
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