Ditto for TWI positions and their evolution. I am petitioning TWI leaders to consider what all Hi Tech companies must do, and that is have a formal system for documenting the old way of doing things and the new way. In such a system such notices are called ECNs for Engineering Change Notices.
There have been quiet policy chages at TWI and I am advising they be made formal, like with ECNs.
I got to thinking about this with one poster, but, really, this thread is fair game for posters to post that they've changed previously-held positions, or left previous positions, or abandoned previously-held positions, and so on. So, it's open for all posters.
However,
I was thinking about all of this because of a specific poster. So, I shall get specific.
Mike,
you've previously held a number of positions on things that you may have changed or reversed. In the interest of finding out if we now agree on them, I'm asking for you outright IF you've changed positions, and, if so, on what you've changed. I've included a few examples I'm curious about, things you've previously espoused but may no longer claim.
-vpw was "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", was "OVERgifted", and "where he walked, the earth shook."
- When Jesus returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange Book and be teaching from it.
-Jesus is "very interested in pfal."
-God told vpw to plagiarize, and it's fine, because God said so, but it's wrong if other people plagiarize.
-The alleged "1942 Promise" was legitimate, and God Almighty really made such a promise to vpw.
That's a few things off the top of my head. Feel free to discuss any position on which you've changed. Please keep in mind, however, that until you mention you've changed, people will most likely hold you responsible for any position you've previously espoused, as if you still hold it.
Did TWI ever change it's position on four crucified?
I think I remember Charlene once writing she and others discovered through research that Llamsa's and victor's claim about "lama sabachthani" was inaccurate. Sound mind following the evidence wherever it would lead resulted in discarding the previous held erroneous position. Did TWI ever correct their position on this, according to the evidence?
Did TWI ever change it's position on four crucified?
I think I remember Charlene once writing she and others discovered through research that Llamsa's and victor's claim about "lama sabachthani" was inaccurate. Sound mind following the evidence wherever it would lead resulted in discarding the previous held erroneous position. Did TWI ever correct their position on this, according to the evidence?
The Aramaic interlinear that twi published showed the changed position- it was written as a question. Lamsa was never the expert in Palestinian Aramaic of the first century as he would hold forth- so his claim that this "would never" have been written as a question was without merit. As a rhetorical question, it carries the same meaning Lamsa wanted to claim- and accurately reflects the text.
Other than that book showing the correct translation, I'm unaware of twi actually correcting anything, and I don't know what they say if someone asks. I DO know they tend to get very defensive if asked about things where someone has to admit even a small mistake, so I think the official policy is still "launch a personal attack on anyone who asks about this, and get evasive as to the actual answer." That's the experience most people got when asking about obvious errors, whether corrected or otherwise.
Lamsa was never the expert in Palestinian Aramaic of the first century as he would hold forth
Yes. I'm well aware. This should be obvious to anyone who cares to find out.
I like this topic. I have changed my positions on many beleefs, doctrines. Ideas, claims, assertions, and opinions throughout my life. One can't beleeve one's way to knowing. Beleeving involves clutching, clinging. Embracing the not-knowing, letting go, frees one to know anything at all. One must be WILLING to admit one is wrong or mistaken or deluded. There is great freedom and power in this openness to truth.
So, has TWI changed and corrected their positions on four crucified and lama sabachthani in PFALT? These two corrections would be excellent baby steps into the light of a new dawn.
Well, for me at least, I have dissected almost every major TWI doctrine both Biblically and historically. I've found that some things with TWI stand - I mean it can't all be based on lies although a little leaven leavens the entire lump. I have tossed a lot of TWI doctrines because they simply aren't true. Christians should tithe, law of believing, administrations, etc. I am a more comitted Christian than I have ever been but that's because my faith is in Christ and God Almighty and not a 501-c3 with a self appointed MOGFODAT. Also would like to say that tossing the fundamentalist glasses I used to wear helped immensely - that and understand how the Bible came into existance. And let me say this - MIKE - I HAVE gone through PFAL and wierwilles other writings with a fine tooth comb. They all fail on several factors that have been discussed on GSC ad nauseum.
Ditto for TWI positions and their evolution. I am petitioning TWI leaders to consider what all Hi Tech companies must do, and that is have a formal system for documenting the old way of doing things and the new way. In such a system such notices are called ECNs for Engineering Change Notices.
There have been quiet policy chages at TWI and I am advising they be made formal, like with ECNs.
Well, I can say this much for your request. It will likely never happen. TWI isn't staffed with experts in their fields, instead they are staffed with AC grads and corps. Some of those jobs are handled by capable people most aren't. There really isn't a lot of cutting edge technology at the way. Last I knew they were still using an AS400 mainframe....maybe thats changed now, but you have to understand that Rosalie hated computers because she considered them dirty communication. That's probably a euphamistic way of saying that all their dirty laundry is on the interweb. Craig hated the internet because its here he was first exposed.
Policy changes. Please understand that the way international had some exremely awful and illegal policies in place - pregnancy policy for example. If they were to come out and acknowledge that was wrong they would get the everloving heck sued out of them because of the damages caused to people who were hurt by it all. Policies have been silently dropped for years or they wouldn't have survived this long past the Allen lawsuit but they will never publicly admit why or even that it's changed.
No new announcements here…over the years I’ve shared a lot of this stuff before…so to recap 36 years of changes and growth since I left TWI – here’s a list of the big changes:
1.The Bible:
I’ve gone from KJV to NIV and NASB for deep study. I have a number of versions on the bookshelf and access to others online. I look at other versions for the value of linguistics and a fresh look at the familiar. For the sheer pleasure of reading or meditation I usually grab NLT or ESV – and they don’t have any study notes or commentaries – I just want to read for overall continuity and comprehension.
~ ~ ~ ~
2.View of the inspiration of the Bible:
Even after I left TWI, I still held onto the fundamentalist/inerrancy view of the Bible. Probably early on in my Grease Spot years (that sounds funny to mark time that way) after dialoging with a lot of Grease Spotters and enjoying different perspectives – and reengaging my cognitive skills - I found myself leaning more toward a limited inspiration theory that supposes God inspired the thoughts of the biblical writers, but not necessarily the words they chose. God guided the thoughts of the writers, but he gave them freedom to express those thoughts in their own style. Having that freedom, some historical errors and ancient concepts of physical science and life science may be found.
~ ~ ~ ~
3.The Trinity:
A topic I am always curious about. I like to revisit it from time to time – as anyone can see on the various threads. People shouldn’t take my being drawn to the subject that I’m a big Trinity advocate. It’s really that I enjoy the freedom to explore a topic a lot more deeply than the shallow way wierwille addressed it.
~ ~ ~ ~
4.Holy Spirit:
I think wierwille didn’t know what he was teaching/talking about with the manifestations or how the Holy Spirit works in our lives. I believe the correct understanding of I Corinthians 12 is that the Holy Spirit is the one distributing as He sees fit – and you don’t need a class or practice sessions to get good at it. As far as walking by the spirit – I’m learning to trust my intuition more. Something that wierwille put down. Who cares? I also think there’s something going on with the Holy Spirit that authenticates the truth when we’re honest and humble in applying the Scriptures. Anyone who wants to claim they operate all nine all the time – have at it. I’m not trying to impress anyone – that was just in my TWI-daze. I think God probably has a lot bigger things in mind for each of us.
Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think.
(Also see point # 10 commonplace believing versus religious faith )
~ ~ ~ ~
5.Prayer:
I have a funny way of getting into prayer time. I start out praying the Lord’s prayer – it’s a good conversation starter- somewhere along the line something will stand out – “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those” – oh yeah, I’m still mad at so and so over blah blah…might as well make peace with them now. I pray about all kinds of stuff, for friends and foes…and it’s always prayer in my understanding – so I’m deliberate in what I ask for and also can monitor my attitudes…I believe that’s when it becomes transformative.
~ ~ ~ ~
6. wierwille / LCM/ campus coordinator / certain TWI-leaders:
I had a lot more ex-TWI-angst when I first left TWI – but I’ve mellowed out over the years. I don’t write-off anyone like wierwille and LCM would. I don’t play God and condemn anyone to hell or think they’re possessed – I’ll leave judgement of everyone - and on what really matters- up to God. If you write-off people you short circuit the whole forgiveness / reconciliation process.
It's a funny thing to step back and think about what I was involved in. Was it even a Christian ministry? I don’t think so. Probably more like a weird parasitic organization that resembled Christianity. A challenging counterfeit. I don't know. I'm always willing to give anyone in TWI the benefit of a doubt – even wierwille. I've never tried to determine anyone's motivation. For all I know wierwille believed he truly served God and God's people.
But as the old proverb goes “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” -wrong or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions...and sometime good intentions when acted upon may have unintended consequences. What are intentions? They are merely guiding principles for our thoughts, attitudes, choices, and actions. Usually, our intentions make us feel good about the beliefs we have. But intentions become irrelevant if they are not aligned with actions.
Anytime I’ve tried to relate my experiences and observations on Grease Spot Café, I have attempted to keep my focus on actions, things that were said and done, observations, experiences, events and situations that were witnessed by others. And in doing so I have looked at how well the publicly stated intentions of TWI aligned with Christian ideology – and what were the consequences of followers applying what they learned from TWI…
Unfortunately, it seems the ramifications are mostly negative, wide-ranging, and profound.
On most issues I see a stark contrast with the way upper leadership in TWI managed followers and the 2 highest priorities Jesus Christ set forth inMatthew 22:37-40...to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. ..It seems obvious to me that how we treat people matters to God...so it makes sense that we should judge ourselves on how we actually deal with people rather than judging ourselves on why we think we serve God's people...we should evaluate our actions to see if they are in tune with our ideology.
~ ~ ~ ~
7.Christianity:
Local churches are cool. Over the years we’ve done some church shopping – not sure if my mental baggage clouds my judgement – but we just haven’t settled down in a particular church. I like the social aspect and the network support available. Maybe some day we will. For now, we tune into “church TV” on Sunday – usually David Jeremiah. I get nervous though when preachers try to address current issues and they’re using broad brush strokes instead of exercising cognitive skills to break things down to the nuts and bolts of a particular issue…it’s like that growing trend of Christian Nationalism – seems to me it’s politicizing the gospel more than spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m a Christian and a survivor of a pseudo-Christian cult – so I’m not interested in joining another cult.
~ ~ ~ ~
8.Philosophy / Theology / Sociology / Psychology/ Music / Fine Arts / Writing:
Some more fun subjects! I thought I learned all I needed to know in those fields after taking PFAL. Now I see I’ve got a long way to go. Exploration is exciting! PFAL and the TWI-mindset was an awfully small and stifling ideological box. Glad I got out of that. Now I’m self-driven – following my curiosity and being creative.
~ ~ ~ ~
9.Family and friends:
I am a recovering a$$hole with smart-a$$ tendencies. Sometimes it’s been 2 steps forward and 1 step back but I’ve done some major reprioritizing about what’s important to me. Instead of everything revolving around “the ministry”, I think I have enough on my plate developing deeper relationships with family and friends.
~ ~ ~ ~
10.Commonplace believing and religious faith:
For the sake of clarity, I like to differentiate between commonplace believing and religious faith. I’m not looking to redefine anything – that’s just how I like to clear up the confusion generated by some fans of magical thinking. Next to The Trinity, systematic theology, hermeneutics, and philosophy of religion, commonplace believingand religious faithhave always been a subject of critical concern for me.
You all know how I have a tendency to get didactic – and verbose– and believe me I’m trying to change that. Some of that comes from the “technical” stuff I read and haven’t fully processed it yet – meaning I have not spent enough time whittling it down to the essentials. The believing / faith teachings in TWI were so confusing and often frustrating and disappointing cuz it was trying to learn magic - and I don't believe in that $hit . For now, the simplest statement of my supposition is that commonplace believing is to religious faith, what The Wright Brothers achievement is to purchasing a plane ticket…uhhh what?!?! Hold on.
To demystify this verb called believing, look at wierwille’s formula for mental busywork:“believing equals receiving”. It leaves a lot to be desired. For one thing – it sounds so passive. I get the idea all I need to do is be prepared to catch whatever it is that should happen to come my way.
I wouldn’t be surprised if plagiarizing-wierwille oversimplified a success formula attributed to Napoleon Hill: what the mind of man can conceive and believe he can achieve. Now that doesn’t sound like a lazy person’s approach and doesn’t carry a sense of entitlement. Rather it conveys that if one has a realistic ideaANDis armed with the right attitudeANDtakes the appropriate time and effort, one can successfully accomplish something. This is where the Wright Brothers' achievement fits in. Commonplace believing.
It’s not like Napoleon Hill invented believing any more than Einstein invented the flexibility of matter and energy when he came up with E=mc2. Hill and Einstein merely articulatedhowcertain things work. I think the biggest distinction is that faith is about transcending the self. Commonplace believing is just about you.
In some sense it’s a helpless s feeling – you are powerless to pull it off and must rely on someone else to do it.
I read of a pretty cool analogy of faith by a pastor online: It’s like me having little or no knowledge of how planes can fly and yet I buy a ticket and willingly get on a plane. I’m putting my trust in the technology and personnel of the aeronautical industry, the pilots, the reliability of the mechanical structure / systems of the jet, the maintenance crews, airport staff, the FAA, etc.I may have a fear of flying… feelings of anxiety may persist for the entire trip. But lo and behold I get to my destination. And I got there by faith in the abilities of others – all I had to do was purchase a ticket and get on the plane. Religious faith is relying on God’s ability. Again I refer to Ephesians 3:20Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think. ...note that God will "accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think". don't sweat if you've got the believing to receive a miracle. God is able throughHis mighty power at work WITHIN US (see point # 4 Holy Spirit ) to go way beyond anything we might ask, think or believe!
~ ~ ~ ~
That’s all for now, folks
Edited by T-Bone nothing new here either...it's the same old editor
There is a very great deal written in the Bible about "meditating on the scriptures." Doesn't mean sitting in a funny position and making funny noises. It means, thinking about deeply. What does this mean, in heart, principle, action? How does it fit with other similar and dissimilar scriptures? How does one apply this in daily living? We have, through the death of Jesus a bigger picture now than was available in, say, Psalms.
The question "Who is my neighbour?" was asked in a snarky way, by a scribe "wanting to justify himself." But it's a good question, when asked with an honest heart. Who do we have to love? And how? There's plenty written about this and I'm not going to reiterate - you can find it yourself online and in commentaries. But each one of us should contemplate who God loves: the rich and the poor, the kind and the unkind. Who does God not want to help? Mmmm... We too were once "afar off," but are now brought not just into God's neighbourhood, but into his house, his heart. How does that fit with our daily living? How does that fit with, for example, TWI's "mark and avoid" policy of those who dare to criticise leadership?
Psalms in particular encourages thinking very deeply about all scriptures, doctrines and practices. Thinking deeply implies changes to thought processes, new ideas, new ways of seeing. God tells us his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and also that we are to seek after his heart and therefore his thoughts. So we should think deeply about what's said and written, discuss with others (iron sharpens iron), and be open to grow and change. ("When I was a child, I thought as a child. But now...") Sometimes those growth changes are sudden, sometimes it's a growing understanding we know better now. Even after his sudden revelation Saul/Paul went off for some years to really think things through - and boy, what a change in his heart.
And if you don't think and change, you become babyish ("For even by the time you ought to be teachers [ie living it and showing by example], ... you have become those having need of milk, and not of solid food.")
The established churches look at their doctrines from time to time and change position, based often on big meetings (synods) of higher-ups. Views on marriage/divorce, children, abortion, how to treat spouses (specifically wives), homosexuality and same-sex marriage, etc, have all been examined, ideas and doctrines changed. I don't think that TWI has ever had such a discussion except as it pertains to not getting into trouble with secular laws.
We all have a long way to go. But we as individuals can start the process now.
Grow up. Be ready and willing to change your position on doctrine.
3. Christ - from transformer suit back to personal relationship
4. Household - of God wherever I find the body of Christ inside and outside churches and small groups. I focus on where I feel comfortable and led as opposed to a spam approach.
5. Way Int - pro to anti
6. Bible - from mixed up view with rules to apply to just fun to read and think about and draw inspiration from.
7. Other religions - from avoidance to exploration and conversation with - allow their difference to add to my strength .
Good topic! Perhaps the biggest difference for me is the lack of confidence in "the gathering together" as taught in twi. My involvement with a preterist church on Long Island the last few years got me thinking that Christ came back in 70A.D. already, Nero is 666, and so forth; and when we die, we immediately go to our judgment, then proceed to heaven, hell, or purgatory. (catholic faith). Also, no more "law of believing" the way twi taught it. No more 'fear brings results' like twi taught it, and waiting to be a greasepot.
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Mike
Ditto for TWI positions and their evolution. I am petitioning TWI leaders to consider what all Hi Tech companies must do, and that is have a formal system for documenting the old way of doing things and the new way. In such a system such notices are called ECNs for Engineering Change Notices.
There have been quiet policy chages at TWI and I am advising they be made formal, like with ECNs.
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WordWolf
I got to thinking about this with one poster, but, really, this thread is fair game for posters to post that they've changed previously-held positions, or left previous positions, or abandoned previously-held positions, and so on. So, it's open for all posters.
However,
I was thinking about all of this because of a specific poster. So, I shall get specific.
Mike,
you've previously held a number of positions on things that you may have changed or reversed. In the interest of finding out if we now agree on them, I'm asking for you outright IF you've changed positions, and, if so, on what you've changed. I've included a few examples I'm curious about, things you've previously espoused but may no longer claim.
-vpw was "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", was "OVERgifted", and "where he walked, the earth shook."
- When Jesus returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange Book and be teaching from it.
-Jesus is "very interested in pfal."
-God told vpw to plagiarize, and it's fine, because God said so, but it's wrong if other people plagiarize.
-The alleged "1942 Promise" was legitimate, and God Almighty really made such a promise to vpw.
That's a few things off the top of my head. Feel free to discuss any position on which you've changed. Please keep in mind, however, that until you mention you've changed, people will most likely hold you responsible for any position you've previously espoused, as if you still hold it.
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Nathan_Jr
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WordWolf
The Aramaic interlinear that twi published showed the changed position- it was written as a question. Lamsa was never the expert in Palestinian Aramaic of the first century as he would hold forth- so his claim that this "would never" have been written as a question was without merit. As a rhetorical question, it carries the same meaning Lamsa wanted to claim- and accurately reflects the text.
Other than that book showing the correct translation, I'm unaware of twi actually correcting anything, and I don't know what they say if someone asks. I DO know they tend to get very defensive if asked about things where someone has to admit even a small mistake, so I think the official policy is still "launch a personal attack on anyone who asks about this, and get evasive as to the actual answer." That's the experience most people got when asking about obvious errors, whether corrected or otherwise.
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Nathan_Jr
Yes. I'm well aware. This should be obvious to anyone who cares to find out.
I like this topic. I have changed my positions on many beleefs, doctrines. Ideas, claims, assertions, and opinions throughout my life. One can't beleeve one's way to knowing. Beleeving involves clutching, clinging. Embracing the not-knowing, letting go, frees one to know anything at all. One must be WILLING to admit one is wrong or mistaken or deluded. There is great freedom and power in this openness to truth.
So, has TWI changed and corrected their positions on four crucified and lama sabachthani in PFALT? These two corrections would be excellent baby steps into the light of a new dawn.
I wonder if anyone can answer the question.
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OldSkool
Well, for me at least, I have dissected almost every major TWI doctrine both Biblically and historically. I've found that some things with TWI stand - I mean it can't all be based on lies although a little leaven leavens the entire lump. I have tossed a lot of TWI doctrines because they simply aren't true. Christians should tithe, law of believing, administrations, etc. I am a more comitted Christian than I have ever been but that's because my faith is in Christ and God Almighty and not a 501-c3 with a self appointed MOGFODAT. Also would like to say that tossing the fundamentalist glasses I used to wear helped immensely - that and understand how the Bible came into existance. And let me say this - MIKE - I HAVE gone through PFAL and wierwilles other writings with a fine tooth comb. They all fail on several factors that have been discussed on GSC ad nauseum.
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OldSkool
Well, I can say this much for your request. It will likely never happen. TWI isn't staffed with experts in their fields, instead they are staffed with AC grads and corps. Some of those jobs are handled by capable people most aren't. There really isn't a lot of cutting edge technology at the way. Last I knew they were still using an AS400 mainframe....maybe thats changed now, but you have to understand that Rosalie hated computers because she considered them dirty communication. That's probably a euphamistic way of saying that all their dirty laundry is on the interweb. Craig hated the internet because its here he was first exposed.
Policy changes. Please understand that the way international had some exremely awful and illegal policies in place - pregnancy policy for example. If they were to come out and acknowledge that was wrong they would get the everloving heck sued out of them because of the damages caused to people who were hurt by it all. Policies have been silently dropped for years or they wouldn't have survived this long past the Allen lawsuit but they will never publicly admit why or even that it's changed.
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T-Bone
No new announcements here…over the years I’ve shared a lot of this stuff before…so to recap 36 years of changes and growth since I left TWI – here’s a list of the big changes:
1. The Bible:
I’ve gone from KJV to NIV and NASB for deep study. I have a number of versions on the bookshelf and access to others online. I look at other versions for the value of linguistics and a fresh look at the familiar. For the sheer pleasure of reading or meditation I usually grab NLT or ESV – and they don’t have any study notes or commentaries – I just want to read for overall continuity and comprehension.
~ ~ ~ ~
2. View of the inspiration of the Bible:
Even after I left TWI, I still held onto the fundamentalist/inerrancy view of the Bible. Probably early on in my Grease Spot years (that sounds funny to mark time that way) after dialoging with a lot of Grease Spotters and enjoying different perspectives – and reengaging my cognitive skills - I found myself leaning more toward a limited inspiration theory that supposes God inspired the thoughts of the biblical writers, but not necessarily the words they chose. God guided the thoughts of the writers, but he gave them freedom to express those thoughts in their own style. Having that freedom, some historical errors and ancient concepts of physical science and life science may be found.
~ ~ ~ ~
3. The Trinity:
A topic I am always curious about. I like to revisit it from time to time – as anyone can see on the various threads. People shouldn’t take my being drawn to the subject that I’m a big Trinity advocate. It’s really that I enjoy the freedom to explore a topic a lot more deeply than the shallow way wierwille addressed it.
~ ~ ~ ~
4. Holy Spirit:
I think wierwille didn’t know what he was teaching/talking about with the manifestations or how the Holy Spirit works in our lives. I believe the correct understanding of I Corinthians 12 is that the Holy Spirit is the one distributing as He sees fit – and you don’t need a class or practice sessions to get good at it. As far as walking by the spirit – I’m learning to trust my intuition more. Something that wierwille put down. Who cares? I also think there’s something going on with the Holy Spirit that authenticates the truth when we’re honest and humble in applying the Scriptures. Anyone who wants to claim they operate all nine all the time – have at it. I’m not trying to impress anyone – that was just in my TWI-daze. I think God probably has a lot bigger things in mind for each of us.
Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think.
Ephesians 3:20
(Also see point # 10 commonplace believing versus religious faith )
~ ~ ~ ~
5. Prayer:
I have a funny way of getting into prayer time. I start out praying the Lord’s prayer – it’s a good conversation starter
- somewhere along the line something will stand out – “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those” – oh yeah, I’m still mad at so and so over blah blah…might as well make peace with them now. I pray about all kinds of stuff, for friends and foes…and it’s always prayer in my understanding – so I’m deliberate in what I ask for and also can monitor my attitudes…I believe that’s when it becomes transformative.
~ ~ ~ ~
6. wierwille / LCM/ campus coordinator / certain TWI-leaders:
I had a lot more ex-TWI-angst when I first left TWI – but I’ve mellowed out over the years. I don’t write-off anyone like wierwille and LCM would. I don’t play God and condemn anyone to hell or think they’re possessed – I’ll leave judgement of everyone - and on what really matters- up to God. If you write-off people you short circuit the whole forgiveness / reconciliation process.
It's a funny thing to step back and think about what I was involved in. Was it even a Christian ministry? I don’t think so. Probably more like a weird parasitic organization that resembled Christianity. A challenging counterfeit. I don't know. I'm always willing to give anyone in TWI the benefit of a doubt – even wierwille. I've never tried to determine anyone's motivation. For all I know wierwille believed he truly served God and God's people.
But as the old proverb goes “the road to hell is paved with good intentions” - wrong or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions...and sometime good intentions when acted upon may have unintended consequences. What are intentions? They are merely guiding principles for our thoughts, attitudes, choices, and actions. Usually, our intentions make us feel good about the beliefs we have. But intentions become irrelevant if they are not aligned with actions.
Anytime I’ve tried to relate my experiences and observations on Grease Spot Café, I have attempted to keep my focus on actions, things that were said and done, observations, experiences, events and situations that were witnessed by others. And in doing so I have looked at how well the publicly stated intentions of TWI aligned with Christian ideology – and what were the consequences of followers applying what they learned from TWI…
Unfortunately, it seems the ramifications are mostly negative, wide-ranging, and profound.
On most issues I see a stark contrast with the way upper leadership in TWI managed followers and the 2 highest priorities Jesus Christ set forth in Matthew 22:37-40 ...to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. ..It seems obvious to me that how we treat people matters to God...so it makes sense that we should judge ourselves on how we actually deal with people rather than judging ourselves on why we think we serve God's people... we should evaluate our actions to see if they are in tune with our ideology.
~ ~ ~ ~
7. Christianity:
Local churches are cool. Over the years we’ve done some church shopping – not sure if my mental baggage clouds my judgement – but we just haven’t settled down in a particular church. I like the social aspect and the network support available. Maybe some day we will. For now, we tune into “church TV” on Sunday – usually David Jeremiah. I get nervous though when preachers try to address current issues and they’re using broad brush strokes instead of exercising cognitive skills to break things down to the nuts and bolts of a particular issue…it’s like that growing trend of Christian Nationalism – seems to me it’s politicizing the gospel more than spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’m a Christian and a survivor of a pseudo-Christian cult – so I’m not interested in joining another cult.
~ ~ ~ ~
8. Philosophy / Theology / Sociology / Psychology/ Music / Fine Arts / Writing:
Some more fun subjects! I thought I learned all I needed to know in those fields after taking PFAL. Now I see I’ve got a long way to go. Exploration is exciting! PFAL and the TWI-mindset was an awfully small and stifling ideological box. Glad I got out of that. Now I’m self-driven – following my curiosity and being creative.
~ ~ ~ ~
9. Family and friends:
I am a recovering a$$hole with smart-a$$ tendencies. Sometimes it’s been 2 steps forward and 1 step back but I’ve done some major reprioritizing about what’s important to me. Instead of everything revolving around “the ministry”, I think I have enough on my plate developing deeper relationships with family and friends.
~ ~ ~ ~
10. Commonplace believing and religious faith:
For the sake of clarity, I like to differentiate between commonplace believing and religious faith. I’m not looking to redefine anything – that’s just how I like to clear up the confusion generated by some fans of magical thinking. Next to The Trinity, systematic theology, hermeneutics, and philosophy of religion, commonplace believing and religious faith have always been a subject of critical concern for me.
You all know how I have a tendency to get didactic
– and verbose 
– and believe me I’m trying to change that. Some of that comes from the “technical” stuff I read and haven’t fully processed it yet – meaning I have not spent enough time whittling it down to the essentials. The believing / faith teachings in TWI were so confusing and often frustrating and disappointing cuz it was trying to learn magic - and I don't believe in that $hit 
. For now, the simplest statement of my supposition is that commonplace believing is to religious faith, what The Wright Brothers achievement is to purchasing a plane ticket…uhhh what?!?! Hold on.
To demystify this verb called believing, look at wierwille’s formula for mental busywork: “believing equals receiving”. It leaves a lot to be desired. For one thing – it sounds so passive. I get the idea all I need to do is be prepared to catch whatever it is that should happen to come my way.
I wouldn’t be surprised if plagiarizing-wierwille oversimplified a success formula attributed to Napoleon Hill: what the mind of man can conceive and believe he can achieve. Now that doesn’t sound like a lazy person’s approach and doesn’t carry a sense of entitlement. Rather it conveys that if one has a realistic idea AND is armed with the right attitude AND takes the appropriate time and effort, one can successfully accomplish something. This is where the Wright Brothers' achievement fits in. Commonplace believing.
It’s not like Napoleon Hill invented believing any more than Einstein invented the flexibility of matter and energy when he came up with E=mc2. Hill and Einstein merely articulated how certain things work. I think the biggest distinction is that faith is about transcending the self. Commonplace believing is just about you.
In some sense it’s a helpless s feeling – you are powerless to pull it off and must rely on someone else to do it.
I read of a pretty cool analogy of faith by a pastor online: It’s like me having little or no knowledge of how planes can fly and yet I buy a ticket and willingly get on a plane. I’m putting my trust in the technology and personnel of the aeronautical industry, the pilots, the reliability of the mechanical structure / systems of the jet, the maintenance crews, airport staff, the FAA, etc. I may have a fear of flying… feelings of anxiety may persist for the entire trip. But lo and behold I get to my destination. And I got there by faith in the abilities of others – all I had to do was purchase a ticket and get on the plane. Religious faith is relying on God’s ability. Again I refer to Ephesians 3:20 Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think. ...note that God will "accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think". don't sweat if you've got the believing to receive a miracle. God is able through His mighty power at work WITHIN US (see point # 4 Holy Spirit ) to go way beyond anything we might ask, think or believe!
~ ~ ~ ~
That’s all for now, folks
Edited by T-Bonenothing new here either...it's the same old editor
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Twinky
Great post, T-Bone.
There is a very great deal written in the Bible about "meditating on the scriptures." Doesn't mean sitting in a funny position and making funny noises. It means, thinking about deeply. What does this mean, in heart, principle, action? How does it fit with other similar and dissimilar scriptures? How does one apply this in daily living? We have, through the death of Jesus a bigger picture now than was available in, say, Psalms.
The question "Who is my neighbour?" was asked in a snarky way, by a scribe "wanting to justify himself." But it's a good question, when asked with an honest heart. Who do we have to love? And how? There's plenty written about this and I'm not going to reiterate - you can find it yourself online and in commentaries. But each one of us should contemplate who God loves: the rich and the poor, the kind and the unkind. Who does God not want to help? Mmmm... We too were once "afar off," but are now brought not just into God's neighbourhood, but into his house, his heart. How does that fit with our daily living? How does that fit with, for example, TWI's "mark and avoid" policy of those who dare to criticise leadership?
Psalms in particular encourages thinking very deeply about all scriptures, doctrines and practices. Thinking deeply implies changes to thought processes, new ideas, new ways of seeing. God tells us his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and also that we are to seek after his heart and therefore his thoughts. So we should think deeply about what's said and written, discuss with others (iron sharpens iron), and be open to grow and change. ("When I was a child, I thought as a child. But now...") Sometimes those growth changes are sudden, sometimes it's a growing understanding we know better now. Even after his sudden revelation Saul/Paul went off for some years to really think things through - and boy, what a change in his heart.
And if you don't think and change, you become babyish ("For even by the time you ought to be teachers [ie living it and showing by example], ... you have become those having need of milk, and not of solid food.")
The established churches look at their doctrines from time to time and change position, based often on big meetings (synods) of higher-ups. Views on marriage/divorce, children, abortion, how to treat spouses (specifically wives), homosexuality and same-sex marriage, etc, have all been examined, ideas and doctrines changed. I don't think that TWI has ever had such a discussion except as it pertains to not getting into trouble with secular laws.
We all have a long way to go. But we as individuals can start the process now.
Grow up. Be ready and willing to change your position on doctrine.
Just for starters, try here: 12 BEST PSALMS FOR MEDITATION [Most Powerful Psalms] (psalm91.com)
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chockfull
My changed positions are simple to state.
1. Freedom - from those who desire to control
2. Fundamentalism - from pro to anti
3. Christ - from transformer suit back to personal relationship
4. Household - of God wherever I find the body of Christ inside and outside churches and small groups. I focus on where I feel comfortable and led as opposed to a spam approach.
5. Way Int - pro to anti
6. Bible - from mixed up view with rules to apply to just fun to read and think about and draw inspiration from.
7. Other religions - from avoidance to exploration and conversation with - allow their difference to add to my strength .
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oldiesman
Good topic! Perhaps the biggest difference for me is the lack of confidence in "the gathering together" as taught in twi. My involvement with a preterist church on Long Island the last few years got me thinking that Christ came back in 70A.D. already, Nero is 666, and so forth; and when we die, we immediately go to our judgment, then proceed to heaven, hell, or purgatory. (catholic faith). Also, no more "law of believing" the way twi taught it. No more 'fear brings results' like twi taught it, and waiting to be a greasepot.
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