Tape called "Light Began to Dawn." A Partial transcript. Selling Plurality. SNT 214

[chockfull]

42 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

allow me to use the standard answer a question with a question tactic:

Hey Chockfull, wanna get blessed?

Wanna sponsor me in life?

okay - so that's 2 questions...that means it's established, right? wow wee wow now it's 3 questions to your 1...I win by triple play! 

I was just asking or joking because that is 100 percent how I remember that year.  Like you described.

[OldSkool]

7 hours ago, Twinky said:

When I was in rez, LCM commented one time (lunch time "sharing"?) that he sometimes walked the corridors in Founders Hall, praying for the people there.  I'm very much a night owl and there were a couple of quiet but public places I'd go and sit and read or study or write letters.  I always hoped I'd see this great "man of God" and be able to speak with him on his perambulations.  But I never saw him, was a bit disappointed.  I wondered if perhaps he roamed some of the other corridors.

Once I learned of his abuse of females (graduated corps, not in rez Corps). then it made sense. 

I'm guessing he was visiting some female(s) in the other parts of Founders Hall.  And his comment was to cover himself if anybody saw him in the Hall at some strange hour of night, when he might be expected to be in that fancy wooden house.  And his comment about praying was, I began to assume, misunderstood.  He was walking about PREYING on people, not praying for them.

All I can say is wow! I've pretty much realized that once you know that VPW and LCM were predatory in nature when it come to extra-marital affairs (being nice saying it that way) then it become easier to spot the cover stories. For example wierwille and Rinker going to the Church late at night to "pray" after everyone else went to bed. As a married man I would want my wife present instead of being alone with another woman late at night...yeah...what could go wrong there....now in VPW's case I'm sure he invited Rosalind to HQ so he could get some alone time and then the spiel about taking her into the Church building alone, late at night to "pray"....or as Twinkie says more correctly to "prey".

Twinkie I have to say knowing what we know about Martindale Im sure his story is what you say it is...a cover story. Only thing that makes sense.

[T-Bone]

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

I was just asking or joking because that is 100 percent how I remember that year.  Like you described.

Understood – I knew you were kidding around.

My WOW year was pathetic

about the only good I got out of it was meeting my wife – and we still put up with each other after 46 years…and I don’t have to caravan to the Rock every year to embellish stories of abundance and power on the WOW field. I can undo all that from the comfort of my fully-furnished-kilowatt-eating home…I’ll just hop on my laptop, whenever we take a break from binge-watching The West Wing.

[Nathan_Jr]

• Is Rosalind Rinker the one vic claims to have "introduced" him to Bullinger? (Coincidentally, he was already "teaching" like Bullinger wrote, but vic had never heard of him....riiight.)
• Does anyone have her book Prayer: Conversing with God? How much of this book did he plagiarize? Apparently, this has been a very important book among evangelicals since its publication in 1959.
• Wow. She didn't get tired until she was 95! Apparently, that's when she chose to stop believing.

[OldSkool]

16 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

• Is Rosalind Rinker the one vic claims to have "introduced" him to Bullinger? (Coincidentally, he was already "teaching" like Bullinger wrote, but vic had never heard of him....riiight.)
• Does anyone have her book Prayer: Conversing with God? How much of this book did he plagiarize? Apparently, this has been a very important book among evangelicals since its publication in 1959.
• Wow. She didn't get tired until she was 95! Apparently, that's when she chose to stop believing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Rinker

Graduated college and was a counsellor at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterVarsity_Christian_Fellowship#Bible_Study

Quote

 

Bible Study

Bible study has always been an important part of InterVarsity's campus ministry. InterVarsity staff worker Paul Byer is credited with developing the Manuscript Study method of inductive Bible study,^[12] a useful tool for inductive Bible studies.^[13] After graduating from the University of Southern California with a degree in architecture, Byer became one of the leading forces in InterVarsity, as both a campus staff worker and as the West Coast Regional Director, and was the developer of the Manuscript Study method.^[14] Through his innovative approach to Bible Study, extensive mentoring, and long tenure he helped shape the theology and culture of the entire movement. The Manuscript Study method continues to be used heavily by InterVarsity as one of many tools to help students investigate and learn from the teachings of the Bible.^[15]

Other early staff members laid more of the foundation for InterVarsity's commitment to Bible study. Jane Hollingsworth learned inductive Bible study in seminary and in turn trained staff members in the 1940s. She wrote the first Bible study guide published by InterVarsity, Discovering the Gospel of Mark. In the 1960s, veteran staff member Barbara Boyd developed what became the Bible and Life Training Courses, experienced by decades of students.^[16]

 

 

 

Biblical research, teaching, fellowship ministry that uses ....drum roll plz...inductive reasoning.  

So, yes, he likely copied this from her as well. The way international brags that they teach inductive reasoning in their study methods. Which most likely means wierwille copied this from her/Intervarsity Christian Fellowship. 

I distinctly remember that she was the one who introduced wierwille to Bullinger, however, I defer to others for confirmation because I can't give you a source.

Edited September 23, 2022 by OldSkool

[Nathan_Jr]

8 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Rinker

Graduated college and was a counsellor at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterVarsity_Christian_Fellowship#Bible_Study

 

 

Biblical research, teaching, fellowship ministry that uses ....drum roll plz...inductive reasoning.  

So, yes, he likely copied this from her as well. The way international brags that they teach inductive reasoning in their study methods. Which most likely means wierwille copied this from her/Intervarsity Christian Fellowship. 

Thanks, OldSkool.

Do you have Rinker's book on prayer? Is she the one who "introduced" him to Bullinger?

[skyrider]

20 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

• Is Rosalind Rinker the one vic claims to have "introduced" him to Bullinger? (Coincidentally, he was already "teaching" like Bullinger wrote, but vic had never heard of him....riiight.)
• Does anyone have her book Prayer: Conversing with God? How much of this book did he plagiarize? Apparently, this has been a very important book among evangelicals since its publication in 1959.
• Wow. She didn't get tired until she was 95! Apparently, that's when she chose to stop believing.

 

No, it was Dr. Higgins who introduced wierwille to the works of E. W. Bullinger.

She sat in the first "The Gifts of the Spirit"[Bullinger's class]........er, pfal class.

[Nathan_Jr]

Just now, skyrider said:

 

No, it was Dr. Higgins who introduced wierwille to the works of E. W. Bullinger.

She sat in the first "The Gifts of the Spirit"[Bullinger's class]........er, pfal class.

Ahh! Right! I remember now. Thanks, Skyrider.

Do you have Rinker's book? If so, have you noticed any content plagiarized by vic?

[skyrider]

No, I don't have Rinker's book.....but it sounds like something I'd be interested in pursuing.

 

 

[Nathan_Jr]

2 minutes ago, skyrider said:

No, I don't have Rinker's book.....but it sounds like something I'd be interested in pursuing.

 

 

In 2006, the magazine Christianity Today  called it one of the 50 most important or influential books of the past fifty years. Yeah, she sounds interesting.

[T-Bone]

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

• Is Rosalind Rinker the one vic claims to have "introduced" him to Bullinger? (Coincidentally, he was already "teaching" like Bullinger wrote, but vic had never heard of him....riiight.)
• Does anyone have her book Prayer: Conversing with God? How much of this book did he plagiarize? Apparently, this has been a very important book among evangelicals since its publication in 1959.
• Wow. She didn't get tired until she was 95! Apparently, that's when she chose to stop believing.

 

50 minutes ago, skyrider said:

 

No, it was Dr. Higgins who introduced wierwille to the works of E. W. Bullinger.

She sat in the first "The Gifts of the Spirit"[Bullinger's class]........er, pfal class.

if I’m not mistaken, how  wierwille relates   “the introduction” was that she said to him something like “you teach like Bullinger writes” …which may be an unintended admission of plagiarism…My wife told me she had a high school biology teacher who had memorized the entire textbook. Her and her classmates realized this one day. While he droned on about science stuff often addressing the classroom skeleton model, they noticed he was quoting almost verbatim from the textbook.

[OldSkool]

1 hour ago, skyrider said:

 

No, it was Dr. Higgins who introduced wierwille to the works of E. W. Bullinger.

She sat in the first "The Gifts of the Spirit"[Bullinger's class]........er, pfal class.

Thanks! It seems I distinctly remembered wrong....lmao

[WordWolf]

FYI,

"vpw"s first class- the clone of BG Leonard's CTC "Gifts of the Spirit" class was called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today."

In the thread "vp and me in Wonderland", we discussed the odd phrases and why it looked like RR went after vpw and both of them adultered together.  Later, RD posted independently that that is what had happened, on some occasions.   So, vpw wasn't actually admitting anything, but his exact phrasing pointed to what he meant to conceal.

According to God Almighty, adultery is wrong.  Adulterers are not recommended to be leaders.  This is rather obvious.   But a few people think that all of that is true EXCEPT FOR wierwille who gets a pass, because of the 1942 promise- which was complete bunk from the first to the last.   The only reason to think vpw is worthy of ANY respect is his own insistence that he was- and that's not very convincing to most people.

[Nathan_Jr]

41 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

The only reason to think vpw is worthy of ANY respect is his own insistence that he was

That's not even a sufficient reason. Even the apostle Paul said don't EAT any where near victor. Don't even EAT near him!  Which should point to how far away one needs to be on that day.

I respect him as I would any other deeply flawed, stupid, carnal human being - with compassion and pity. I respect him as much as I would the rabid raccoon in the bayou behind my house.
 

[OldSkool]

14 hours ago, WordWolf said:

FYI,

"vpw"s first class- the clone of BG Leonard's CTC "Gifts of the Spirit" class was called "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today."

In the thread "vp and me in Wonderland", we discussed the odd phrases and why it looked like RR went after vpw and both of them adultered together.  Later, RD posted independently that that is what had happened, on some occasions.   So, vpw wasn't actually admitting anything, but his exact phrasing pointed to what he meant to conceal.

According to God Almighty, adultery is wrong.  Adulterers are not recommended to be leaders.  This is rather obvious.   But a few people think that all of that is true EXCEPT FOR wierwille who gets a pass, because of the 1942 promise- which was complete bunk from the first to the last.   The only reason to think vpw is worthy of ANY respect is his own insistence that he was- and that's not very convincing to most people.

Thanks! Im gonna check out that thread.

[Mike]

15 hours ago, WordWolf said:

The only reason to think vpw is worthy of ANY respect is his own insistence that he was- and that's not very convincing to most people.

Baloney !!!

I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims.

It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good. 

This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class.  They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives. 

Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them.  You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks, 
if you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol,
and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds
with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.

 

 

 

 

[OldSkool]

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

Baloney !!!

I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims.

It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good. 

This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class.  They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives. 

Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them.  You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks, 
if you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol,
and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds
with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.

 

 

 

 

Ive been looking instead at the revelation God gave concerning Jesus Christ and the revelation God gave to Jesus Christ which he gave to us in the form of scripture.. wierwille is an imposter and PFAL is leaven. 

Galatians 1:12

 

“For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

[T-Bone]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

Baloney !!!

I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims.

It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good. 

This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class.  They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives. 

Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them.  You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks, 
if you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol,
and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds
with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.

Mike: I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims. It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good.

 

T-Bone: Baloney!

Has it ever occurred to you that  YOU  might be the fruit of wierwille the false teacher?

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.     II Peter 2:1-3

Harmful and controlling cult-leaders like wierwille have a knack for sabotaging a follower’s cognitive skills. It’s easy to see how that would be like an embedded process of self-deception. It’s more efficient, since the cult-leader does not have to be constantly in front of followers telling them what to think or how to behave. The twisted mindset that followers have dutifully absorbed functions like a mental autopilot.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

Mike: This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class.  They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives.

 

T-Bone: Baloney!

Are  YOU  omniscient and omnipresent?

How do you know “this process” is still going on? “people get massively blessed” ?!?! But  YOU  just said you didn’t have the ability to look at the fruit in the lives of others!

“blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class” Oh, so you’ve taken the new PFAL Today class?

Also, please define  “massively blessed”  and  describe what  “fruit” is seen.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

Mike: Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them.  You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

T-Bone: Baloney!

“thousands right this minute” ?  Are  YOU  omniscient and omnipresent?

“You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch” …bus? Did you mean to say motorcoach?  Who’s driving and who’s getting diddled in the back? 

 

~ ~ ~ ~

Mike: Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks,

if you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol,

and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds

with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.

 

T-Bone: Baloney!

Baloney!

Baloney!

Baloney!

Spam! (Irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the internet to a large number of recipients) 

“you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol”  manufactured anti-idol is an odd concept…fyi – there’s a naturally occurring anti-idol…it’s called cognitive skills…you might want to look into that.

“and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.”  Sorry but I have to disagree with you for a couple of reasons:

1.       “saturate your mind” is a euphemism for brainwashing…been there, had that done…that’s a “no” for me

2.       “the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.” …this baloney / spam subset is 100 % bull$hit and we all know it. some just refuse to admit it. 

 

That’s all for now...have a nice day, Mike   

Edited September 24, 2022 by T-Bone
sorry my editor missed the bus - and he was not very blessed having to walk to work

[Rocky]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims.

It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good.

How did Mike get the "good fruit," ostensibly as a result of believing in the Word of Victor in the PFLAP class, in his life before he started to believe Victor's claims?

In some sense, Mike's story has been consistent through the decades. But not in this sense. He's got a somewhat elaborate story, but to try to make it fit as a rebuttal on this thread, he appears to be confused.

I'm not going to challenge "Mike's story." I, however, DO challenge his effort to insert logic into it. Mike failed in that effort. 

Could it have been--in Mike's life--that he really did get hypnotized (or otherwise captured by Victor's "theatrics") by Victor's words BEFORE looking for any "good fruit" in Victor's life?

Edited September 24, 2022 by Rocky

[Nathan_Jr]

3 hours ago, Mike said:

You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

No thanks. 
 

[chockfull]

7 hours ago, Mike said:

Baloney !!!

I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims.

It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good. 

This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class.  They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives. 

Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them.  You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch.  It's not too late.  It will be too late someday.

Coming back to PFAL meekly would work for you folks, 
if you looked away from your manufactured anti-idol,
and looked instead at how to work with God by saturating your minds
with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.

Many thousands lol.  Yes the hundreds of tens of people flocking to this class can attest to those thousands because all of them are going through the PFAL class ONCE AGAIN because there is new light in a new day and time that requires a new version of the way.  They are not new class grads yet.

What in the world is a manufactured anti idol?  All idols are manufactured by man to usurp the worship of God.  The only thing manufactured here by man is a new class.  And a website where people offer opinions on it.  And yes this new class focuses on a compliance based SIT and new false teaching on the household of God.  All right there in the collaterals 

The fruit of this class has Christians disassociating themselves from all other Christians outside of the Way and to speak the class to all regardless of their church to draw them away after the Way.  
 

The Way offers no church in local communities as other Christian groups do.  All the money goes in to country HQ to support the big important people.  

All of this is 100% contradictory to the I Cor 12-14 section they claim to be experts in.  Can the ear say to the hand and so forth?

 

 

[waysider]

7 hours ago, Mike said:

.....work with God by saturating your minds
with the revelation God taught VPW to put into writing to us.

Step 1. Accept that PFAL is not divine revelation.

Step 2. Refer to Step 1.

[Twinky]

7 hours ago, chockfull said:

The fruit of this class has Christians disassociating themselves from all other Christians outside of the Way and to speak the class to all regardless of their church to draw them away after the Way.  

The Way offers no church in local communities as other Christian groups do.

Too right.

No church, no real community involvement, no help to the needy whether "within" or "outside" the "household."

Light will only "begin to dawn" when people realise the false dawn of TWI is exactly that - a false dawn.  If some parts  somehow do draw people to Christ, that's good but only as far as it goes - but when the majority of the false dawn draws people away from Christ, then the falsity is exposed.  In fact it's more like the swamp-gas light (will o'the wisp) that leads people into big trouble.

Will-o'-the-wisp - Wikipedia

[waysider]

19 minutes ago, Twinky said:

light (will o'the wisp) that leads people into big trouble.

Vic-o'-lantern

[T-Bone]

3 hours ago, waysider said:

Vic-o'-lantern

Vic-o-lantern got you in big trouble?

Are you having second thoughts about selling your home to go in the Way Corps?

Vic’s VapoRub to the rescue!

 

Q: What does Vic’s VapoRub do?

A: Vic’s VapoRub temporarily relieves clarity due to minor inconsistencies and intellectual irritations associated with common sense. It can also be used to temporarily relieve minor moral dilemmas and pains of conscience due to qualms. Only use as directed by the “Doctor” or your local Pharisee.

When life rubs you the wrong way then Vic’s VapoRub is The Way. 
 

~~ ~~ ~~
advertisement paid for by the committee to resurrect wierwille 

Edited September 25, 2022 by T-Bone
Try Vic’s VapoRub on your typos. Does it really work? No - but you will think it does.