Do you mean "criminal case" rather than having used "federal case?"
Hence the potential catastrophe of a class action civil suit to twi. In such a situation a $65 million treasury wouldn't go very far. Rosie knew that. She (and whoever with her) decided to survive and make twi survive by settling with the Allens.
Note today's news that a jury awarded a certain broadcaster's Connecticut victims (of his harassment) nearly a BILLION dollars.
Until one or more follower decides to step up and lead.
And we have known since well before the emergence of the interwebs, sunlight is the BEST disinfectant. Waydale wasn't responsible for your emotional pain.
Life is inherently unfair. Factors enter into situations beyond what anyone can control. You probably know that on an intellectual level, even though your emotions may be holding you to a different perspective and framework for understanding and coping with your experience.
NOBODY instigating the shining of sunlight on the evil actions of Loy or the evil subculture enabling him necessarily had ANY idea of possible collateral damage inflicted on innocent bystanders.
Stephen Covey, the late author of 7 Habits of Highly EFFECTIVE People wrote,
“But I kept thinking about it. I really went inside myself and began to ask, ‘Do I have the power to choose my response?’ “When I finally realized that I do have that power, when I swallowed that bitter pill and realized that I had chosen to be miserable, I also realized that I could choose not to be miserable. “At that moment I stood up. I felt as though I was being let out of San Quentin. I wanted to yell to the whole world, ‘I am free! I am let out of prison! No longer am I going to be controlled by the treatment of some person.’”
***
It’s not what happens to us, but our response to what happens to us that hurts us. Of course, things can hurt us physically or economically and can cause sorrow. But our character, our basic identity, does not have to be hurt at all. In fact, our most difficult experiences become the crucibles that forge our character and develop the internal powers, the freedom to handle difficult circumstances in the future and to inspire others to do so as well.
Covey, Stephen R.. The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change (pp. 80-81). Rosetta Books. Kindle Edition.
My divorce and custody disputes, in and about which I was easily able to find information clearly demonstrating that what happened to me was grossly unfair and hurtful, became crucibles for me. I couldn't control the situations and too many of the outcomes. Yet, as unjust as those events were, and as emotionally difficult as they were for me, I have emerged (nearly 30 years after my divorce) much more emotionally mature and able to handle difficult situations and emotions than I ever was.
And like you, Bolshevik, the hurt I endured was outside my control and directly traceable to the teachings and culture of wierwilleism. Like me, it may take you a long time to emerge from the crucible, but you can and you will.
You are speaking in platitudes.
This is ongoing fight that affects generations.
These websites were a decision to scapegoat the rest of us.
TWIG fellowships always had these discussions as far back as I can remember.
Now we argue with those never involved with TWI.
Ymmv. To me I never encountered these discussions in twigs or fellowships. Like in a communist country divisive discussions happen very infrequently and outside of any potential eavesdropping. I mean they canned one of the class teachers over a rumor they got wrong and attributed to the guy. (Not new PLAF last one).
Very few people who have never been in TWI ever find this site. Even fewer interact on it. This audience is pretty much ex way.
These websites were a decision to scapegoat the rest of us.
I’m gonna agree with you that the struggle to stay free from a cults influence and control is a generational fight.
It seems your parents may not have made the greatest choices with respect to this cult and your upbringing. I empathize to the point of trying to be better with my kids. All I can say there is hallelujah we are free.
I am glad I can connect with fellow former POWs from the way here. My perspective. I’m not trying to scapegoat anyones kids.
I’m gonna agree with you that the struggle to stay free from a cults influence and control is a generational fight.
It seems your parents may not have made the greatest choices with respect to this cult and your upbringing. I empathize to the point of trying to be better with my kids. All I can say there is hallelujah we are free.
I am glad I can connect with fellow former POWs from the way here. My perspective. I’m not trying to scapegoat anyones kids.
You can do that on Facebook. They can hide groups.
Staying out of a cult is easy, washing the stain of Waydale is harder.
It seems your parents may not have made the greatest choices with respect to this cult and your upbringing. I empathize to the point of trying to be better with my kids. All I can say there is hallelujah we are free.
. . .
You're bringing up parents. Culties don't make good decisions.
Scapegoating their kids as if they were the leaders makes it more difficult to deal with those outside the cult.
Containment was used to deal with communism. Containment.
Everybody has options. I usually point out the freedom of them to people enslaved by the bondage of the way.
That light would be truth Wayfers are tainted. blaming kids for their parents views while they were a minor is dumb though.
I was involved in numerous incidents and all were different. Some may include parents and others did not. Non-wayfers were on the internet, I was not. I was not on GSC until 2007 at the encouragement of others.
When walking away from TWI, Waydale brought it back via non-wayfers.
What I am not seeing is if the chaos was worth it.
LCM ousted? So fing what.
A man whoring his wife for $$$? Not unheard of.
I do write to people about rape culture and The Way. I am concerned it is all BS.
I think it will save everyone some time and energy- including you, Bol- if we all (including you) accept that there is NO answer you will find acceptable as to what Waydale was and why it existed. Period.
Lots of other people have come forth, explaining how Waydale or the GSC benefited them personally, and you don't see how any of them benefited. That's fine- their benefits are independent of your ability to perceive them.
You were wronged by some idiots- and if other people doubted that, their doubts would not erase the wrongs.
So, that's a conversational impasse, and will remain so because there's no "argument" that will change your mind, so there's no point in circling the same ideas.
I'm not personally familiar with the parties involved in the lawsuit, but I'd be slow to accuse anyone of "whoring his wife for money" even if it were true (which, in this case, it isn't and is a gross misstatement of what happened.) I get that you're fine with insulting whoever and it doesn't matter to you, especially if it relates to Waydale. But you might put that past you by now.
So far, you're the only person who ever came forth complaining of Waydale or the GSC that way. That suggests the problem wasn't with Waydale. Even if it had been, the site has been closed for more than 20 years. The most I've ever talked about it was in your threads recently. My suggestion is to find a way to let it go. harboring resentments for decades is not healthy.
I think it will save everyone some time and energy- including you, Bol- if we all (including you) accept that there is NO answer you will find acceptable as to what Waydale was and why it existed. Period.
Lots of other people have come forth, explaining how Waydale or the GSC benefited them personally, and you don't see how any of them benefited. That's fine- their benefits are independent of your ability to perceive them.
You were wronged by some idiots- and if other people doubted that, their doubts would not erase the wrongs.
So, that's a conversational impasse, and will remain so because there's no "argument" that will change your mind, so there's no point in circling the same ideas.
I'm not personally familiar with the parties involved in the lawsuit, but I'd be slow to accuse anyone of "whoring his wife for money" even if it were true (which, in this case, it isn't and is a gross misstatement of what happened.) I get that you're fine with insulting whoever and it doesn't matter to you, especially if it relates to Waydale. But you might put that past you by now.
So far, you're the only person who ever came forth complaining of Waydale or the GSC that way. That suggests the problem wasn't with Waydale. Even if it had been, the site has been closed for more than 20 years. The most I've ever talked about it was in your threads recently. My suggestion is to find a way to let it go. harboring resentments for decades is not healthy.
I was wronged by people who outsmarted The Way International itself. I wouldn't call them idiots. Just smarter than the rest of us.
You have previously denied events I saw with my own eyes. Which begs questions for me.
So far, you're the only person who ever came forth complaining of Waydale or the GSC that way. That suggests the problem wasn't with Waydale. Even if it had been, the site has been closed for more than 20 years. The most I've ever talked about it was in your threads recently. My suggestion is to find a way to let it go. harboring resentments for decades is not healthy.
I pleaded for change . . . what . . . over a decade ago?
Whatever it is you think you're doing . . . protecting others from the boogieman . . . GSC is nothing but an extension of TWI . . . you are the one who needs to walk away
Let those of us dealing with TWI because of lifelong connections do so . . . don't give the outsiders Ammo
The very purpose of this site gives answers. How many people being love bombed by some form of way ambassador have done a simple google search and found something other than way whitewashed sites? Found this very site? And this said “no thank you” to sitting in front of a tube for hours and days for mass plaf-T hypnosis?
No the absence of a site like this raises more questions than the existence of this site.
Who cares what I did or didn’t let go? A lot of crap I’ve let go to do with them. Other crap I feel inclined to call them out on. Either way other than performing a public service and connecting with others I’ve let go what I need to. I’m sure plenty of judgement centered Christians will have a problem with that. Let them it occupies their small brains.
People interacting on this site with lifelong family connections we are glad to chat with all of them here regardless.
I’m not in favor of shutting these forum discussions down in favor of a more private chat. I enjoy interacting with outside posters like J Juedes.
My suggestion is to find a way to let it go. harboring resentments for decades is not healthy.
There's those damn platitudes again. Nevertheless, it can take time for anyone to decide to let go of said resentments.
2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:
If you're here, you haven't let it go.
The very existence of this site raises questions.
Let those of us dealing with TWI because of lifelong connections do so . . . don't give the outsiders Ammo
Oh, puhleeze. You have no idea why anyone is here other than what any one person may declare about their motives.
YOU, sir, have made it clear that YOU have issues. Sharing how I did about crucibles I endured and how they changed me is the opposite of talking in platitudes.
This day, you may not want to see it. So be it. Nobody can fix you but you. Your journey may take a long time. My journey has certainly taken a long time.
Your efforts to blame Waydale and/or GSC are most definitely misguided, however.
We’ve talked before about the so-called Stockdale Paradox—the blazing determination inside Admiral James Stockdale that allowed him to believe that, despite his imprisonment and torture, he would not only survive but thrive because of his experience. There’s something similar in Meditations where Marcus Aurelius, reflecting on the plague and the wars and the troubles that beset his reign, actually says to himself, “It’s fortunate that this happened to me.”
The Stoics always believed they could find a way. But it’s important to understand where this was coming from, lest we confuse resilience with naivete or worse. In a recent episode of Ramit Sethi’s wonderful podcast, one of the guests explained how his father, despite having to raise his kids in a trailer while making $30,000 a year, inspired his kids to believe that everything was going to be OK, that they’d get through it, that they would find a way. This was a wonderful and important lesson, except now as an adult working as a mortgage broker, the man seemed remarkably naive about the potential vulnerability of his industry to the turbulence of the economy. What if the market turns, he was asked. “I trust that my company will take care of me,” he said. Wasn’t he concerned that he had so little in the way of savings or emergency funds? No, he said, it’ll all work out. My company will take care of me.
The word for this attitude is not “Stoic,” it is Panglossian, a term derived from the novel Candide by Voltaire. A Stoic believes that they’ll find a way through no matter what happens, yes, but they are also realistic. They try not to depend on things outside their control.
When asked who fared worst in the North Vietnamese prison camp, Stockdale singled out one group: the optimists. They were convinced they’d be rescued soon. They were convinced it was going to be over any day now. Ramit’s mortgage broker guest went one step further, he was a fantasist. He dreamt of a reality that simply didn’t exist. We cannot be so naive or excessively optimistic or wishful, as to place our fate in the hands of others. Like the Stoics, we must never expect, or hope, or believe that anyone is coming to save us. Because it’s the expectation, the entitlement, the naivete that crushes us.
OTOH, enduring the crucible undoubtedly changed Stockdale.
So looking at the latest views of wayfers regarding their founding President, you have to wonder are they seriously conflicted over topics such as the title of this thread?
Or more, like me in the past, did you push thinking about it down out of your conscious mind, refusing to deal with it at all? Or discount it as lies from the disgruntled? I have to believe that all that are aware still in the way have some form of rationalization going on.
It reminds me of Dave Chapelle talking about moral conflicts regarding Bill Cosby.
There's those damn platitudes again. Nevertheless, it can take time for anyone to decide to let go of said resentments.
Oh, puhleeze. You have no idea why anyone is here other than what any one person may declare about their motives.
YOU, sir, have made it clear that YOU have issues. Sharing how I did about crucibles I endured and how they changed me is the opposite of talking in platitudes.
This day, you may not want to see it. So be it. Nobody can fix you but you. Your journey may take a long time. My journey has certainly taken a long time.
Your efforts to blame Waydale and/or GSC are most definitely misguided, however.
Peace.
You left TWI a looooooong time ago. I have no idea why you give it a thought, ever. How did the internet affect you while in TWI?
The very purpose of this site gives answers. How many people being love bombed by some form of way ambassador have done a simple google search and found something other than way whitewashed sites? Found this very site? And this said “no thank you” to sitting in front of a tube for hours and days for mass plaf-T hypnosis?
No the absence of a site like this raises more questions than the existence of this site.
Who cares what I did or didn’t let go? A lot of crap I’ve let go to do with them. Other crap I feel inclined to call them out on. Either way other than performing a public service and connecting with others I’ve let go what I need to. I’m sure plenty of judgement centered Christians will have a problem with that. Let them it occupies their small brains.
People interacting on this site with lifelong family connections we are glad to chat with all of them here regardless.
I’m not in favor of shutting these forum discussions down in favor of a more private chat. I enjoy interacting with outside posters like J Juedes.
PFAL promised answers didn't it?
Waydale's problems were dumped on me. I did not participate in Waydale. It seems like it would be best for such a group to be incognito. But it wasn't.
So looking at the latest views of wayfers regarding their founding President, you have to wonder are they seriously conflicted over topics such as the title of this thread?
Or more, like me in the past, did you push thinking about it down out of your conscious mind, refusing to deal with it at all? Or discount it as lies from the disgruntled? I have to believe that all that are aware still in the way have some form of rationalization going on.
It reminds me of Dave Chapelle talking about moral conflicts regarding Bill Cosby.
If it's anything like TWIG in the 80s, they are sitting around making jokes about it.
There's those damn platitudes again. Nevertheless, it can take time for anyone to decide to let go of said resentments.
Oh, puhleeze. You have no idea why anyone is here other than what any one person may declare about their motives.
YOU, sir, have made it clear that YOU have issues. Sharing how I did about crucibles I endured and how they changed me is the opposite of talking in platitudes.
This day, you may not want to see it. So be it. Nobody can fix you but you. Your journey may take a long time. My journey has certainly taken a long time.
Your efforts to blame Waydale and/or GSC are most definitely misguided, however.
Peace.
Further Rocky,
You went to TWI a long time ago . . . that's it. It was dumb and you left. That's all I know about you.
Followers of TWI are targets for others. Because if someone is in TWI, outsider know they are gullible people. These sites are great resources for predators. Yes?
Waydale's problems were dumped on me. I did not participate in Waydale. It seems like it would be best for such a group to be incognito. But it wasn't.
Waydale's problems were dumped on me. I did not participate in Waydale. It seems like it would be best for such a group to be incognito. But it wasn't.
I’m trying to get this straight. Waydale, a website not in existence for very long, was used to traumatize you when you were a youth because a local townie close to HQ thought you were gonna rape their daughter due to your family’s association with Waydale?
I kind of don’t even know where to start with all that but probably not in dumping it on another website with a forum with different people on it. I never posted on Waydale that I remember.
Sorry about your youth it seems to have a good deal of cult trauma. My kids have some of that too. It’s my fault 100%.
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Rocky
Do you mean "criminal case" rather than having used "federal case?" Hence the potential catastrophe of a class action civil suit to twi. In such a situation a $65 million treasury wouldn
chockfull
So looking at the latest views of wayfers regarding their founding President, you have to wonder are they seriously conflicted over topics such as the title of this thread? Or more, like me in th
Twinky
Bolshevik, have you heard of "coercive control"? It can include where the victim (and yes, there is a victim) feels compelled to perform certain acts by a person in some sort of trusted, or supe
Bolshevik
You are speaking in platitudes.
This is ongoing fight that affects generations.
These websites were a decision to scapegoat the rest of us.
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chockfull
Ymmv. To me I never encountered these discussions in twigs or fellowships. Like in a communist country divisive discussions happen very infrequently and outside of any potential eavesdropping. I mean they canned one of the class teachers over a rumor they got wrong and attributed to the guy. (Not new PLAF last one).
Very few people who have never been in TWI ever find this site. Even fewer interact on it. This audience is pretty much ex way.
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chockfull
I’m gonna agree with you that the struggle to stay free from a cults influence and control is a generational fight.
It seems your parents may not have made the greatest choices with respect to this cult and your upbringing. I empathize to the point of trying to be better with my kids. All I can say there is hallelujah we are free.
I am glad I can connect with fellow former POWs from the way here. My perspective. I’m not trying to scapegoat anyones kids.
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Bolshevik
You can do that on Facebook. They can hide groups.
Staying out of a cult is easy, washing the stain of Waydale is harder.
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Bolshevik
You're bringing up parents. Culties don't make good decisions.
Scapegoating their kids as if they were the leaders makes it more difficult to deal with those outside the cult.
Containment was used to deal with communism. Containment.
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chockfull
As I am a free individual I can connect with people anywhere I please.
I don’t post much content on the Zuckaverse.
Staying out of a cult is easy for me, just ignore the cheesy come on home fake love.
Waydale is gone, only stain there is looking it up on archive.com. If you perceive a stain here that is on you. Check your shorts.
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Bolshevik
I did not rape Mrs. Allen.
I was only pointing out you have options.
What light does this website shine if non-wayfers always percieved wayfers were tainted?
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chockfull
Neither did I
Everybody has options. I usually point out the freedom of them to people enslaved by the bondage of the way.
That light would be truth Wayfers are tainted. blaming kids for their parents views while they were a minor is dumb though.
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Bolshevik
I was involved in numerous incidents and all were different. Some may include parents and others did not. Non-wayfers were on the internet, I was not. I was not on GSC until 2007 at the encouragement of others.
When walking away from TWI, Waydale brought it back via non-wayfers.
What I am not seeing is if the chaos was worth it.
LCM ousted? So fing what.
A man whoring his wife for $$$? Not unheard of.
I do write to people about rape culture and The Way. I am concerned it is all BS.
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WordWolf
I think it will save everyone some time and energy- including you, Bol- if we all (including you) accept that there is NO answer you will find acceptable as to what Waydale was and why it existed. Period.
Lots of other people have come forth, explaining how Waydale or the GSC benefited them personally, and you don't see how any of them benefited. That's fine- their benefits are independent of your ability to perceive them.
You were wronged by some idiots- and if other people doubted that, their doubts would not erase the wrongs.
So, that's a conversational impasse, and will remain so because there's no "argument" that will change your mind, so there's no point in circling the same ideas.
I'm not personally familiar with the parties involved in the lawsuit, but I'd be slow to accuse anyone of "whoring his wife for money" even if it were true (which, in this case, it isn't and is a gross misstatement of what happened.) I get that you're fine with insulting whoever and it doesn't matter to you, especially if it relates to Waydale. But you might put that past you by now.
So far, you're the only person who ever came forth complaining of Waydale or the GSC that way. That suggests the problem wasn't with Waydale. Even if it had been, the site has been closed for more than 20 years. The most I've ever talked about it was in your threads recently. My suggestion is to find a way to let it go. harboring resentments for decades is not healthy.
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Bolshevik
I was wronged by people who outsmarted The Way International itself. I wouldn't call them idiots. Just smarter than the rest of us.
You have previously denied events I saw with my own eyes. Which begs questions for me.
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Bolshevik
If you're here, you haven't let it go.
The very existence of this site raises questions.
Let those of us dealing with TWI because of lifelong connections do so . . . don't give the outsiders Ammo
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Bolshevik
I pleaded for change . . . what . . . over a decade ago?
Whatever it is you think you're doing . . . protecting others from the boogieman . . . GSC is nothing but an extension of TWI . . . you are the one who needs to walk away
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chockfull
The very purpose of this site gives answers. How many people being love bombed by some form of way ambassador have done a simple google search and found something other than way whitewashed sites? Found this very site? And this said “no thank you” to sitting in front of a tube for hours and days for mass plaf-T hypnosis?
No the absence of a site like this raises more questions than the existence of this site.
Who cares what I did or didn’t let go? A lot of crap I’ve let go to do with them. Other crap I feel inclined to call them out on. Either way other than performing a public service and connecting with others I’ve let go what I need to. I’m sure plenty of judgement centered Christians will have a problem with that. Let them it occupies their small brains.
People interacting on this site with lifelong family connections we are glad to chat with all of them here regardless.
I’m not in favor of shutting these forum discussions down in favor of a more private chat. I enjoy interacting with outside posters like J Juedes.
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Rocky
There's those damn platitudes again.
Nevertheless, it can take time for anyone to decide to let go of said resentments.
Oh, puhleeze. You have no idea why anyone is here other than what any one person may declare about their motives.
YOU, sir, have made it clear that YOU have issues. Sharing how I did about crucibles I endured and how they changed me is the opposite of talking in platitudes.
This day, you may not want to see it. So be it. Nobody can fix you but you. Your journey may take a long time. My journey has certainly taken a long time.
Your efforts to blame Waydale and/or GSC are most definitely misguided, however.
Peace.
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Rocky
From Daily Stoic:
OTOH, enduring the crucible undoubtedly changed Stockdale.
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chockfull
So looking at the latest views of wayfers regarding their founding President, you have to wonder are they seriously conflicted over topics such as the title of this thread?
Or more, like me in the past, did you push thinking about it down out of your conscious mind, refusing to deal with it at all? Or discount it as lies from the disgruntled? I have to believe that all that are aware still in the way have some form of rationalization going on.
It reminds me of Dave Chapelle talking about moral conflicts regarding Bill Cosby.
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Bolshevik
You left TWI a looooooong time ago. I have no idea why you give it a thought, ever. How did the internet affect you while in TWI?
The internet WAS and IS an obstacle.
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Bolshevik
PFAL promised answers didn't it?
Waydale's problems were dumped on me. I did not participate in Waydale. It seems like it would be best for such a group to be incognito. But it wasn't.
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Bolshevik
If it's anything like TWIG in the 80s, they are sitting around making jokes about it.
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Bolshevik
Further Rocky,
You went to TWI a long time ago . . . that's it. It was dumb and you left. That's all I know about you.
Followers of TWI are targets for others. Because if someone is in TWI, outsider know they are gullible people. These sites are great resources for predators. Yes?
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Nathan_Jr
Who dumped “Waydale’s problems” on you?
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Bolshevik
People who read it. It happened many times.
Waydale was a way to through dirty laundry in all directions right? Who cares where it lands?
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chockfull
I’m trying to get this straight. Waydale, a website not in existence for very long, was used to traumatize you when you were a youth because a local townie close to HQ thought you were gonna rape their daughter due to your family’s association with Waydale?
I kind of don’t even know where to start with all that but probably not in dumping it on another website with a forum with different people on it. I never posted on Waydale that I remember.
Sorry about your youth it seems to have a good deal of cult trauma. My kids have some of that too. It’s my fault 100%.
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