Seemingly, wierwille could NOT pull off the same theatrics ten years later......at PFAL '77. The re-filming of his pfal class was a failure. Why the failure? Were the stories and zingers and theatrics THAT IMPORTANT to pfal's success?
YES! A thousand times, YES!
Back then, critics would say we were brainwashed, but it took decades before academic research had pinpointed how and why that was the case.
In a sense, his histrionics were intended as a form of hypnosis, to get us to reduce our resistance to his mind shaping (controlling) suggestions.
Quote
Hypnosis is a human condition involving focused attention (the selective attention/selective inattention hypothesis, SASI),[2] reduced peripheral awareness, and an enhanced capacity to respond to suggestion.[3]
vpw plagiarized not just the material, but how it was taught, as well. Over time, he would have forgotten specifics in the delivery that longtime pfal fans would have remembered. So, since it was all mimicry, he would have gotten worse over time. If it had been legit, then the subjects would get BETTER over time, not worse.
Yes again sky. It is not a logic leap to look at a guy who got a cereal box top correspondence degree in homiletics and see that the crux of his interest is in influencing people via the spoken word.
I like your histrionics word. Yes VP threw semi emotional fits on set throughout the class. This is a major element of how he “set the hook” to appeal to our young minds and emotions.
One of the saddest things I experienced running these PFAL classes for people was the grads who served. They were kind of a running dialogue going along with the quirks of the class. They had all sat through it many times to the point of having it all memorized. Then they would interject pre scripted comments in places. It was so bizarre.
What it reminded me of was this group in college that used to go to Rocky Horror Picture Show and dress up and counter dialogue and wear rain gear and throw water on each other:
Yes again sky. It is not a logic leap to look at a guy who got a cereal box top correspondence degree in homiletics and see that the crux of his interest is in influencing people via the spoken word.
I like your histrionics word. Yes VP threw semi emotional fits on set throughout the class. This is a major element of how he “set the hook” to appeal to our young minds and emotions.
Wierwille took this histrionic-homiletics to absurd levels.
His stories in pfal were zingers.... implanting a coded-message of intimidation and fear into the minds of youth. Even in the 12th Session of pfal, wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals. Indoctrination 101. Keep them involved. Keep them addicted. Keep them indoctrinated.
With each new class/program level came more aggressive measures of commitment. Seal your corps vow to twi with salt. No matter how much debauchery, plagiarism, drunkenness, or evil you uncovered at the top levels of twi..... you were "salted" for life? Screw that!! The Scriptures state plainly to flee even the appearance of evil. Oftentimes, especially in closed-session meetings with corps..... it was debasing and mean-spirited. Wierwille ruled by fear.
implanting a coded-message of intimidation and fear into the minds of youth
Programming, conditioning, brainwashing is never obvious, apparent. It is subtle, coded.
1 hour ago, skyrider said:
in the 12th Session of pfal, wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals. Indoctrination 101. Keep them involved. Keep them addicted. Keep them indoctrinated...
Wierwille took this histrionic-homiletics to absurd levels.
His stories in pfal were zingers.... implanting a coded-message of intimidation and fear into the minds of youth. Even in the 12th Session of pfal, wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals. Indoctrination 101. Keep them involved. Keep them addicted. Keep them indoctrinated.
With each new class/program level came more aggressive measures of commitment. Seal your corps vow to twi with salt. No matter how much debauchery, plagiarism, drunkenness, or evil you uncovered at the top levels of twi..... you were "salted" for life? Screw that!! The Scriptures state plainly to flee even the appearance of evil. Oftentimes, especially in closed-session meetings with corps..... it was debasing and mean-spirited. Wierwille ruled by fear.
Well, this is GreaseSpot Histrionics:
"...wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals."
We were strongly encouraged in the PFAL class to spend the next 3 months reading the Epistles of Paul.
Well, this is GreaseSpot Histrionics:
"...wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals."
We were strongly encouraged in the PFAL class to spend the next 3 months reading the Epistles of Paul.
ummmmm..... at some point after you took the PFLAP class, the closing apparently changed.
ummmmm..... at some point after you took the PFLAP class, the closing apparently changed.
I think at some point many years ago, here, I made the suggestion that people come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes.
...is the most important and sinister clause here, whether epistles or collaterals.
I seem to remember you writing this, Mike, about the collaterals, etc. You may be technically correct, but I also remember victor grumbling: read nothing but or exclusively or only the epistles/collaterals/pfal.
Edited by Nathan_Jr The mere suggestion that victor is T7TMOG is a spiritual liability...also, waterhead babies... also, gloves...also, apple buttered-pickles.
I think at some point many years ago, here, I made the suggestion that people come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes.
Are you now suggesting that YOU were the "voice" of Wierwille?
I think at some point many years ago, here, I made the suggestion that people come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes.
Bottom line, Mike, you're making a claim that you only support with insinuation and NOT with any proof that any of us here are or were factually incorrect.
I'd pose questions to you about it, but WE ALL know that you are capable of masterful obfuscation.
And you're effort to derail this thread is totally OFF TOPIC anyway.
I think at some point many years ago, here, I made the suggestion that people come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes.
I did that for 2 years in-residence at Rome City…it was boring and it sucked…but to comment on your recommendation to see how it went after studying PFAL stuff – in my case, 2 years straight– I’ll try to be brief.
In one sense (in keeping with the theme of this thread) my way corps training was a non-accredited 2-year program in theatrics with a minor in bait-and-switch. It was like going to school for the performing arts where we studied the master – no, not Shakespeare - but wierwille…although what I remember from a catholic university, I think we would probably have learned a lot more about practical matters, social interactions, and human nature if we had studied Shakespeare in Rome City instead of that PFAL nonsense.
What’s the worst time to find out a strategy doesn’t work? When a crisis hits. One of the great watershed moments of TWI was the passing of wierwille. when the “great” cult-leader passed away what I saw was a ministry in complete turmoil, upper leadership vying for power, and I heard a lot of my corps saying when they get out on the field, they’re going to run PFAL classes back-to-back. Like that’s going to solve everything. Know what that tells me? The way corps – which was wierwille’s baby– was NOT about teaching people to be disciples of Christ and how to serve and shepherd the Lord’s flock…No! The way corps was really a clone factory to mass-produce mini-wierwilles!
TWI only has one playbook – and it was written by wierwille. Everything flows from that: business plans, financial plans, marketing plans, operational plans, contingency plans, succession plans…and it’s all based on the egotistical / delusional musings of a pathological liar…a malignant narcissist...a thieving plagiarist…a Drambuie-guzzling-chain-smoking, abusive & exploitative sexual predator with a flair for the dramatic. And that's all rolled into one person. depending on how you slice-and-dice those attributes you'd probably come up with an alternate nine manifestations .
come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes? Hell, I did that for 12 years! And how long has PFAL been around? How many other peoples’ lives, families, marriages, friends, careers, finances, physical & mental health suffered from CONTINUINGto believe in the PFAL collaterals for years on end!
...is the most important and sinister clause here, whether epistles or collaterals.
I seem to remember you writing this, Mike, about the collaterals, etc. You may be technically correct, but I also remember victor grumbling: read nothing but or exclusively or only the epistles/collaterals/pfal.
Are you now suggesting that YOU were the "voice" of Wierwille?
I am suggesting that because you don't regularly refresh your mind's memory with the originals, your memory of the originals is continually distorted by what you DO put regularly into your mind... which would be... ?
Bottom line, Mike, you're making a claim that you only support with insinuation and NOT with any proof that any of us here are or were factually incorrect.
I'd pose questions to you about it, but WE ALL know that you are capable of masterful obfuscation.
And you're effort to derail this thread is totally OFF TOPIC anyway.
I thought I was dead on topic. I am bringing up the close tangential topic of GSC theatrics and histrionics.
I'll stop the slight tangential de-rail, unless someone asks me politely to post an audio clip from the film class that says what I posted to correct faulty memories.
I am suggesting that because you don't regularly refresh your mind's memory with the originals, your memory of the originals is continually distorted by what you DO put regularly into your mind... which would be... ?
I did that for 2 years in-residence at Rome City…it was boring and it sucked…but to comment on your recommendation to see how it went after studying PFAL stuff – in my case, 2 years straight– I’ll try to be brief.
In one sense (in keeping with the theme of this thread) my way corps training was a non-accredited 2-year program in theatrics with a minor in bait-and-switch. It was like going to school for the performing arts where we studied the master – no, not Shakespeare - but wierwille…although what I remember from a catholic university, I think we would probably have learned a lot more about practical matters, social interactions, and human nature if we had studied Shakespeare in Rome City instead of that PFAL nonsense.
What’s the worst time to find out a strategy doesn’t work? When a crisis hits. One of the great watershed moments of TWI was the passing of wierwille. when the “great” cult-leader passed away what I saw was a ministry in complete turmoil, upper leadership vying for power, and I heard a lot of my corps saying when they get out on the field, they’re going to run PFAL classes back-to-back. Like that’s going to solve everything. Know what that tells me? The way corps – which was wierwille’s baby– was NOT about teaching people to be disciples of Christ and how to serve and shepherd the Lord’s flock…No! The way corps was really a clone factory to mass-produce mini-wierwilles!
TWI only has one playbook – and it was written by wierwille. Everything flows from that: business plans, financial plans, marketing plans, operational plans, contingency plans, succession plans…and it’s all based on the egotistical / delusional musings of a pathological liar…a malignant narcissist...a thieving plagiarist…a Drambuie-guzzling-chain-smoking, abusive & exploitative sexual predator with a flair for the dramatic. And that's all rolled into one person. depending on how you slice-and-dice those attributes you'd probably come up with an alternate nine manifestations .
come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes? Hell, I did that for 12 years! And how long has PFAL been around? How many other peoples’ lives, families, marriages, friends, careers, finances, physical & mental health suffered from CONTINUINGto believe in the PFAL collaterals for years on end!
I'd love to get into it with you T-Bone, since I have some time to kiill tonight. But I sort of just promised to stop my slight de-rail.
I am suggesting that because you don't regularly refresh your mind's memory with the originals, your memory of the originals is continually distorted by what you DO put regularly into your mind... which would be... ?
Gaslighting.
BTW, not everyone here is familiar with how insidiously he has OFTEN derailed and taken over threads by BAITING people into bickering unrelated to the topic intended by the OP.
I thought I was dead on topic. I am bringing up the close tangential topic of GSC theatrics and histrionics.
I'll stop the slight tangential de-rail, unless someone asks me politely to post an audio clip from the film class that says what I posted to correct faulty memories.
I think it's not only important to find out what he said and wrote, but what he meant. This is how one puts it together so it fits like a hand in a glove - this is the original work.
I have posted screen shots of advanced class transcripts. It's always astonishingly revelatory. I wish I had a transcript of pfal. Do you have a transcript? Would you please post a screen shot of this phrase?
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WordWolf
vpw's bait-and-switch was sometimes used right in pfal, but other times it was not. If 100% of all you knew about vpw came straight from pfal tapes/films and the books of that class, you'd be sur
OldSkool
The way international is built on victor paul wierwille, not Jesus Christ. Sure, they mention his name at the end of a prayer and they love to talk about his accomplished works, but otherwise they hav
OldSkool
Excellent responese T-Bone. Mike - so you are saying it's ok for people to steal because everything belongs to God. That logic could hold true over anything then if it were to hold true over inte
Rocky
YES! A thousand times, YES!
Back then, critics would say we were brainwashed, but it took decades before academic research had pinpointed how and why that was the case.
In a sense, his histrionics were intended as a form of hypnosis, to get us to reduce our resistance to his mind shaping (controlling) suggestions.
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WordWolf
vpw plagiarized not just the material, but how it was taught, as well. Over time, he would have forgotten specifics in the delivery that longtime pfal fans would have remembered. So, since it was all mimicry, he would have gotten worse over time. If it had been legit, then the subjects would get BETTER over time, not worse.
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chockfull
Yes again sky. It is not a logic leap to look at a guy who got a cereal box top correspondence degree in homiletics and see that the crux of his interest is in influencing people via the spoken word.
I like your histrionics word. Yes VP threw semi emotional fits on set throughout the class. This is a major element of how he “set the hook” to appeal to our young minds and emotions.
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waysider
You know what killed that little boy? Well, I'll tell you. It was a 1939 Packard with a rumble seat.
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chockfull
One of the saddest things I experienced running these PFAL classes for people was the grads who served. They were kind of a running dialogue going along with the quirks of the class. They had all sat through it many times to the point of having it all memorized. Then they would interject pre scripted comments in places. It was so bizarre.
What it reminded me of was this group in college that used to go to Rocky Horror Picture Show and dress up and counter dialogue and wear rain gear and throw water on each other:
Peoples behavior patterns fascinate me.
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skyrider
Wierwille took this histrionic-homiletics to absurd levels.
His stories in pfal were zingers.... implanting a coded-message of intimidation and fear into the minds of youth. Even in the 12th Session of pfal, wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals. Indoctrination 101. Keep them involved. Keep them addicted. Keep them indoctrinated.
With each new class/program level came more aggressive measures of commitment. Seal your corps vow to twi with salt. No matter how much debauchery, plagiarism, drunkenness, or evil you uncovered at the top levels of twi..... you were "salted" for life? Screw that!! The Scriptures state plainly to flee even the appearance of evil. Oftentimes, especially in closed-session meetings with corps..... it was debasing and mean-spirited. Wierwille ruled by fear.
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Nathan_Jr
Programming, conditioning, brainwashing is never obvious, apparent. It is subtle, coded.
....Keep them insular.
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Mike
Well, this is GreaseSpot Histrionics:
"...wierwille closes out his class with telling students to spend the next three months reading his pfal collaterals."
We were strongly encouraged in the PFAL class to spend the next 3 months reading the Epistles of Paul.
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Rocky
ummmmm..... at some point after you took the PFLAP class, the closing apparently changed.
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Mike
Memory is far more prone to those kinds of changes than are recording media.
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Mike
I think at some point many years ago, here, I made the suggestion that people come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes.
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Nathan_Jr
...is the most important and sinister clause here, whether epistles or collaterals.
I seem to remember you writing this, Mike, about the collaterals, etc. You may be technically correct, but I also remember victor grumbling: read nothing but or exclusively or only the epistles/collaterals/pfal.
The mere suggestion that victor is T7TMOG is a spiritual liability...also, waterhead babies... also, gloves...also, apple buttered-pickles.
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Rocky
Are you now suggesting that YOU were the "voice" of Wierwille?
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Rocky
Bottom line, Mike, you're making a claim that you only support with insinuation and NOT with any proof that any of us here are or were factually incorrect.
Edited by RockyI'd pose questions to you about it, but WE ALL know that you are capable of masterful obfuscation.
And you're effort to derail this thread is totally OFF TOPIC anyway.
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T-Bone
I did that for 2 years in-residence at Rome City…it was boring and it sucked…but to comment on your recommendation to see how it went after studying PFAL stuff – in my case, 2 years straight – I’ll try to be brief.
In one sense (in keeping with the theme of this thread) my way corps training was a non-accredited 2-year program in theatrics with a minor in bait-and-switch. It was like going to school for the performing arts where we studied the master – no, not Shakespeare - but wierwille…although what I remember from a catholic university, I think we would probably have learned a lot more about practical matters, social interactions, and human nature if we had studied Shakespeare in Rome City instead of that PFAL nonsense.
What’s the worst time to find out a strategy doesn’t work? When a crisis hits. One of the great watershed moments of TWI was the passing of wierwille. when the “great” cult-leader passed away what I saw was a ministry in complete turmoil, upper leadership vying for power, and I heard a lot of my corps saying when they get out on the field, they’re going to run PFAL classes back-to-back. Like that’s going to solve everything. Know what that tells me? The way corps – which was wierwille’s baby – was NOT about teaching people to be disciples of Christ and how to serve and shepherd the Lord’s flock…No! The way corps was really a clone factory to mass-produce mini-wierwilles!
TWI only has one playbook – and it was written by wierwille. Everything flows from that: business plans, financial plans, marketing plans, operational plans, contingency plans, succession plans…and it’s all based on the egotistical / delusional musings of a pathological liar…a malignant narcissist...a thieving plagiarist…a Drambuie-guzzling-chain-smoking, abusive & exploitative sexual predator with a flair for the dramatic. And that's all rolled into one person. depending on how you slice-and-dice those attributes you'd probably come up with an alternate nine manifestations .
come back to written PFAL, study nothing but those collaterals for 3 months, and see how it goes? Hell, I did that for 12 years! And how long has PFAL been around? How many other peoples’ lives, families, marriages, friends, careers, finances, physical & mental health suffered from CONTINUING to believe in the PFAL collaterals for years on end!
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Mike
You left out the time limit of 3 months.
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Mike
I am suggesting that because you don't regularly refresh your mind's memory with the originals, your memory of the originals is continually distorted by what you DO put regularly into your mind... which would be... ?
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Mike
I thought I was dead on topic. I am bringing up the close tangential topic of GSC theatrics and histrionics.
I'll stop the slight tangential de-rail, unless someone asks me politely to post an audio clip from the film class that says what I posted to correct faulty memories.
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Nathan_Jr
I did. I sure did. Thanks.
Why do you suppose he he included this specific time frame? Why not two weeks? Or four months? Or the next 72 hours? Why three months?
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Rocky
even more.
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Mike
I'd love to get into it with you T-Bone, since I have some time to kiill tonight. But I sort of just promised to stop my slight de-rail.
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Rocky
You thought wrong.
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Rocky
Gaslighting.
BTW, not everyone here is familiar with how insidiously he has OFTEN derailed and taken over threads by BAITING people into bickering unrelated to the topic intended by the OP.
Please don't take Mike's bait.
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Nathan_Jr
I think it's not only important to find out what he said and wrote, but what he meant. This is how one puts it together so it fits like a hand in a glove - this is the original work.
I have posted screen shots of advanced class transcripts. It's always astonishingly revelatory. I wish I had a transcript of pfal. Do you have a transcript? Would you please post a screen shot of this phrase?
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