I stumbled across this phrase while reading an old thread about overflowing abundance post-twi. A search yields exactly 16 results on these boards. Though one can infer from the context what this phrase might mean, there is no real expansive treatment, and "spiritual" seems misplaced -- it's confusing to a sound mind. I never went Corps, which may explain my ignorance. (I never went Sea Org, either.)
Spiritual Goals:
What does it mean?
Is it exclusive to Corps?
How are these goals measured and tracked?
Does this go back to Loy? Victor? The Bible? Who coined this phrase?
- What does it mean? -
Im not realy sure if there is an exact meaning, biblical or otherwise. In practice a spiritual goal can be anything from working to build scriptural concepts into your life to going way corps. I can say for sure though that the way corps use that term to push people into participation of all things TWI. It's really a bait and switch tactic so you end up putting the way international first in your life.
- Is it exclusice to Corps? -
Definately not, but spiritual goals can be used to corral people into the way corps.
- How are these goals measured and tracked? -
Well, there really isn't a set method. Basically, it comes down to what ever your leadership wants to measure and track.
- Does this go back to Loy? Victor? The Bible? Who coined this phrase? -
I am not sure so I defer to others on this one. When I got involved in 1996 I can remember spiritual goals being pushed down my throat right from the end of my first foundational class. Im going out on a limb here, but I really think the phreasology and concept have everything to do with drumming up people to participate in all things TWI. Think programs but definately not limited to programs. Your spiritual goal coud be to attend the advanced class. It's really an open ended application with the least common denominator being participation in TWI.
It's really an open ended application with the least common denominator being participation in TWI.
Ugh. So, it's a subculture construct with no concrete meaning?
I reflect back on some of Skyrider's posts about the obsessive need for "leadership" [self-appointed human masters/slave drivers] to pester underlings into some form of compliance with nebulous busy work demands in support of selling classes with made up importance.
Ugh. So, it's a subculture construct with no concrete meaning?
I think that's a fair assessment unless someone can provide some sort of history that makes it all make sense. Skyrider's posts seem to hit the nail on the head.
I stumbled across this phrase while reading an old thread about overflowing abundance post-twi. A search yields exactly 16 results on these boards. Though one can infer from the context what this phrase might mean, there is no real expansive treatment, and "spiritual" seems misplaced -- it's confusing to a sound mind. I never went Corps, which may explain my ignorance. (I never went Sea Org, either.)
Spiritual Goals:
What does it mean?
Is it exclusive to Corps?
How are these goals measured and tracked?
Does this go back to Loy? Victor? The Bible? Who coined this phrase?
5 hours ago, OldSkool said:
- What does it mean? -
Im not realy sure if there is an exact meaning, biblical or otherwise. In practice a spiritual goal can be anything from working to build scriptural concepts into your life to going way corps. I can say for sure though that the way corps use that term to push people into participation of all things TWI. It's really a bait and switch tactic so you end up putting the way international first in your life.
- Is it exclusice to Corps? -
Definately not, but spiritual goals can be used to corral people into the way corps.
- How are these goals measured and tracked? -
Well, there really isn't a set method. Basically, it comes down to what ever your leadership wants to measure and track.
- Does this go back to Loy? Victor? The Bible? Who coined this phrase? -
I am not sure so I defer to others on this one. When I got involved in 1996 I can remember spiritual goals being pushed down my throat right from the end of my first foundational class. Im going out on a limb here, but I really think the phreasology and concept have everything to do with drumming up people to participate in all things TWI. Think programs but definately not limited to programs. Your spiritual goal coud be to attend the advanced class. It's really an open ended application with the least common denominator being participation in TWI.
4 hours ago, Rocky said:
Ugh. So, it's a subculture construct with no concrete meaning?
I reflect back on some of Skyrider's posts about the obsessive need for "leadership" [self-appointed human masters/slave drivers] to pester underlings into some form of compliance with nebulous busy work demands in support of selling classes with made up importance.
4 hours ago, OldSkool said:
I think that's a fair assessment unless someone can provide some sort of history that makes it all make sense. Skyrider's posts seem to hit the nail on the head.
I have to agree with Rocky and OldSkool about Skyrider’s posts being a great exposé on the pseudo-spirituality of The Way International and especially the way corps program.
And I think OldSkool’s post has good answers to Nathan’s questions.
~ ~ ~ ~
I do want to add a few things on this question:
How are these goals measured and tracked?
My mind immediately went to corps evaluations – I forget the exact details on them (who cares anyway)corps evals were conducted periodically at the end of each block in-residence- not sure. And they were done by the staff person over your job assignment. In a one-on-one private setting with the staff / corps student. If memory serves – it was at least a couple of pages – with leading questions and a blank space below that for the staff person to write stuff from the evaluation session of dialog. Trying to remember specific questions – but it’s been a long time – some 38 years ago. I’m thinking some were like typical HR questions – does the participant work well with others?this is what they did at Rome City anyway…can’t say if it was the same format at other campuses. It was a form of feedback from a work interview standpoint. but I don't think it had anything to do with spirituality...probably more about conformity and indoctrination gauges.
I don’t have any big beefs about the corps evals – some of it kinda made sense to me from merely being good prep for entering the general work force…but to add more depth to the question How are these SPIRITUAL goals measured and tracked? I would have to say the corps evals, along with any other methods that leadership devised to make a judgement or assess were just about as accurate as a blind guy critiquing Leonardo da Vinci’s The Last Supper: Hmmm yes this – what did you say this was? – oh right a painting. May I hold it and feel how heavy it is?
my opinion because the TWI-mindset promoted by wierwille, LCM and others actually discouraged real mindfulness, cognitive skills become diminished and even atrophied. I don’t think wierwille could have recognized a spiritual goal if it was as big as an elephant stomping on his pack of Kool cigs. Read about his lazy-a$$ work ethic and plagiarism on Grease Spot – and yet he claimed he taught the corps how to work the Word ANDa physical job…yeah right.
Edited by T-Bone reevaluating evaluations is invaluable to say the least...does that mean they're priceless?
Spiritual goals are your plans for serving The Way, such as witnessing more, running more classes, etc. Personal spiritual goals, such as studying more, speaking in tongues more, reading Ephesians every day, etc. are goals you pursue with an ultimate view toward the benefit of the organization.
Everything useful on the topic's already been said! :)
It was vague so twi could make it mean whatever they wanted, to get people to do whatever twi wanted them to do, which was usually to promote twi, run classes, etc.
So, how are "spiritual goals" different from any other kind of goals?
Kid: "I want to be an astronaut/doctor/teacher/racing car driver/great sportsman when I grow up."
Parents: "To achieve that, you'll need to develop skills in..., practice ..., study these subjects, learn to do these things, etc "
Kid: "I want to be a church minister when I grow up."
Parents: "To achieve that, you'll need to develop skills in..., practice ..., study these subjects, learn to do these things, etc "
If you have other goals, like deepening your understanding of who God is, what God does, how prayer works (or doesn't), such cannot be quantified or evaluated in the same way. We can all read Bibles, memorise Bible verses, etc. How much reading and repetition of verses can be evaluated.
But the results of one's study to understand and apply in daily practice should be evident in a richer life that demonstrates more of the qualities that God demands of believers: justice, kindness, gentleness, compassion, empathy, generosity, etc. ("Oh yes, I'm 20% more kind than I was this time last year." "80% of my prayers were answered this year." NOT!)
So, how are "spiritual goals" different from any other kind of goals?
I think if it has to do with what the way wants someone to do they attach "spiritual" to the concept. Spiritual partner comes to mind with the way corps...theres nothing spiritual about sending a ministry money to take care of someone while they are in twi custody.
Yep, spiritual partners. They prayed for in rez WC, and their in rez partners prayed for them. They sent in sponsorship; the WC rez sent letters sharing what had been taught. That was the idea, anyway.
I don't know if they were considered spiritual partners if they just mutually prayed, and sent letters to each other. Maybe that wasn't "spiritual" enough if they didn't sent do$h as well. Though outside TWI, it would be considered that the praying was the more important "spiritual" part.
My mind immediately went to corps evaluations – I forget the exact details on them (who cares anyway)corps evals were conducted periodically at the end of each block in-residence- not sure. And they were done by the staff person over your job assignment. In a one-on-one private setting with the staff / corps student. If memory serves – it was at least a couple of pages – with leading questions and a blank space below that for the staff person to write stuff from the evaluation session of dialog. Trying to remember specific questions – but it’s been a long time – some 38 years ago. I’m thinking some were like typical HR questions – does the participant work well with others?this is what they did at Rome City anyway…can’t say if it was the same format at other campuses. It was a form of feedback from a work interview standpoint. but I don't think it had anything to do with spirituality...probably more about conformity and indoctrination gauges.
This is exactly what it's about, nothing more, nothing less, nothing "spiritual." It should be recognizable to anyone working for any organization interested in developing its talent in order to achieve growth goals for the company. Human Resources 101.
12 hours ago, T-Bone said:
but to add more depth to the question How are these SPIRITUAL goals measured and tracked?
Thank you. This is the point.
12 hours ago, waysider said:
Spiritual goals are your plans for serving The Way, such as witnessing more, running more classes, etc. Personal spiritual goals, such as studying more, speaking in tongues more, reading Ephesians every day, etc. are goals you pursue with an ultimate view toward the benefit of the organization.
Right. There is NOTHING spiritual about any of those activities. To label them as spiritual doesn't make them so.
3 hours ago, Twinky said:
If you have other goals, like deepening your understanding of who God is, what God does, how prayer works (or doesn't), such cannot be quantified or evaluated in the same way. We can all read Bibles, memorise Bible verses, etc. How much reading and repetition of verses can be evaluated.
But the results of one's study to understand and apply in daily practice should be evident in a richer life that demonstrates more of the qualities that God demands of believers: justice, kindness, gentleness, compassion, empathy, generosity, etc. ("Oh yes, I'm 20% more kind than I was this time last year." "80% of my prayers were answered this year." NOT!)
Right. A goal of learning a new language, like Greek, can be measured and tracked. One can easily prove one's fluency. For example, one can be held accountable for progress in an academic setting by proving proficiency on tests.
But how will one measure one's understanding of what God is? Who will hold one accountable for achieving this understanding, this "goal"? Is spiritual awareness something at all to be achieved? Who will say if and when you have achieved this "goal"? One must find out for one's self, alone, what spirit, spiritual, spirituality means. When one does, this idea of "spiritual goal" will become self-evidently silly.
Spiritual matters just can't be handled this way. "Spiritual goal" is a non-starter, it's an oxymoron, it's a false proposition.
I think if it has to do with what the way wants someone to do they attach "spiritual" to the concept. Spiritual partner comes to mind with the way corps...theres nothing spiritual about sending a ministry money to take care of someone while they are in twi custody.
I think you're right. Calling something spiritual or holy or enlightened, doesn't make it so. But that is all victor and Loy and the organization ever did. Naming. Labeling. Words... empty words.
Right. A goal of learning a new language, like Greek, can be measured and tracked. One can easily prove one's fluency. For example, one can be held accountable for progress in an academic setting by proving proficiency on tests.
But how will one measure one's understanding of what God is? Who will hold one accountable for achieving this understanding, this "goal"? Is spiritual awareness something at all to be achieved? Who will say if and when you have achieved this "goal"? One must find out for one's self, alone, what spirit, spiritual, spirituality means. When one does, this idea of "spiritual goal" will become self-evidently silly.
Spiritual matters just can't be handled this way. "Spiritual goal" is a non-starter, it's an oxymoron, it's a false proposition.
That’s probably the best answer right there, Nathan!
The term spiritual goals puts us in the often elusive, mysterious and downright puzzling metaphysical world. From severalonline definitions of metaphysical: a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology; abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience; philosophy. concerned with abstract thought or subjects, as existence, causality, or truth; bodiless, discarnate, disembodied, immaterial, incorporeal, insubstantial, nonphysical, spiritual, unbodied, uncorporal, unsubstantial; of or coming from, or relating to forces or beings that exist outside the natural world; extramundane, extrasensory, miraculous, preternatural, superhuman, supernatural, superphysical, supersensible, transcendental, unearthly.
Keeping in mind the fine-tuned question How are these spiritualgoals measured and tracked?- in my opinion there seems to be only one answer: to make sense of anything, each of us will draw up a mental map of reality and byself-referencedetermine on our own self-authored metaphysical chart where we are and where we are going.
~ ~ ~ ~
On another thread- here- I referenced a Psychology Todayarticleabout7 qualities of the true self. One of those qualities is spirituality - which many associate with religious beliefs – but I beg to differ – as I read the following excerpt I understand it to mean being openminded while plotting a course on a metaphysical map. The subtopic of spirituality of this article opens with a quote fromAbraham Heschela Polish-born American rabbi and one of the leading Jewish theologians and Jewish philosophers of the 20th century; he was a professor of Jewish mysticism at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, authored a number of widely read books on Jewish philosophy and was a leader in the civil rights movement – his quote is a strong indication that spirituality connotes a much broader meaning than being just a religious concern…anyway the excerpt on spirituality:
“A return to reverence is the first prerequisite for a revival of wisdom…Wisdom comes from awe rather than shrewdness. It is evoked not in moments of calculation but in moments of being in rapport with the mystery of reality.” Abraham Heschel
…You can experience God, but whether you subscribe to a particular religion, develop a personal understanding of spirit, or deny all divinities and are an atheist, there exists one certainty: things occur in life over which you have no control. You can attribute these things to fate, randomness, nature, physical reality, or God. I personally believe that it is the Spirit that provides the answers for us in all things. We find the Spirit when we discover and actively engage our True Self. When we connect to our Self, Others, and God, and hear the voices of our thoughts (our mind), our feelings (our heart), and our spirit (our soul), we both explain and understand our nature and how these connections bring us fulfillment.
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
the misconceptions I had about being able to measure and track spiritual goals can be traced all the way back to my introduction into wierwille’s pseudo-spirituality of PFAL. My first Twig Coordinator showed me the benefits listed on the back of the PFAL green sign-up card and then asked me - if you could have one of those – which would it be?I picked enables you to separate truth from error.
And thus began my long and arduous journey to nowhere special using some screwed up map drawn up by a cartographer who also happened to be a lazy-a$$ plagiarizing, lying, thieving, Drambuie drinking, chain-smoking sexual predator. Needless to say, I was all over the map – not to be confused with his bogus motto The Word over the world- rather it was wierwille’s word over - as in dominating my world.
Thinking of other claims on the back of the green card…teaches you how to pray effectively…or was it effectually? Doesn’t matter. It was all bull$hit. How do you measure that? I remember wierwille saying speaking in tongues will make you grow big and fat spiritually. Really? How do you measure that? I think that was all junk food – and back then if they had a metaphysical scale where I could have weighed myself it would probably have tipped the scales way over into the pretentious, ludicrous, egotistical, and useless weight division of the universe.
Edited by T-Bone Mapping the unmappable for over a sixteenth of a century
I stumbled across this phrase while reading an old thread about overflowing abundance post-twi. A search yields exactly 16 results on these boards. Though one can infer from the context what this phrase might mean, there is no real expansive treatment, and "spiritual" seems misplaced -- it's confusing to a sound mind. I never went Corps, which may explain my ignorance. (I never went Sea Org, either.)
Spiritual Goals:
What does it mean?
Is it exclusive to Corps?
How are these goals measured and tracked?
Does this go back to Loy? Victor? The Bible? Who coined this phrase?
Rocky, OldSkool, Waysider, WordWolf, T-Bone, Twinky ---- ALL of you are right.
"Spiritual Goals" was (is) a nebulous, vague concept that wierwille injected into the twi-lexicon to coerce followers to the next higher level of twi-servitude. In its most basic form, having "spiritual goals" was OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE/TWI.
Occam's razor ...... ie. the simplest answer is most generally right.
Like Scientology, many groups have their own brand of "spiritual achievement." For reasons known by psychologists, people seem more motivated when there is a "level to climb" in front of them. Not only does it give the person personal satisfaction, but it broadcasts to others in the group that this person has reached another level. Like crabs in a bucket.... each one trying to climb over each other to get to the top. Wierwille stumbled along for decades until he grasped onto the three main "levels" that would define his ministry......1) staff, 2) advanced class grad, and 3) corps.
The College Division group was short-lived......as was Fellow Laborers. IMO, wierwille did not promote fellow laborers, because it was state-run and did not involve headquarters. Thus, wierwille had no use for it.
Here at GSC, we've discussed and dissected wierwille's attributes, characteristics, carnality and modus operandi thousands of times. But the reasons why wierwille built a pyramid-system (and all its trappings) and levels to scale this manufactured spirituality known at The Way International was because..... wierwille was a man of the flesh. Wierwille did NOT know God....in the biblical sense. Therefore, he tweaked around the edges and worked in the shadowy terrain of a deceiver.
Rocky, OldSkool, Waysider, WordWolf, T-Bone, Twinky ---- ALL of you are right.
"Spiritual Goals" was (is) a nebulous, vague concept that wierwille injected into the twi-lexicon to coerce followers to the next higher level of twi-servitude. In its most basic form, having "spiritual goals" was OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE/TWI.
Occam's razor ...... ie. the simplest answer is most generally right.
Like Scientology, many groups have their own brand of "spiritual achievement." For reasons known by psychologists, people seem more motivated when there is a "level to climb" in front of them. Not only does it give the person personal satisfaction, but it broadcasts to others in the group that this person has reached another level. Like crabs in a bucket.... each one trying to climb over each other to get to the top. Wierwille stumbled along for decades until he grasped onto the three main "levels" that would define his ministry......1) staff, 2) advanced class grad, and 3) corps.
The College Division group was short-lived......as was Fellow Laborers. IMO, wierwille did not promote fellow laborers, because it was state-run and did not involve headquarters. Thus, wierwille had no use for it.
Here at GSC, we've discussed and dissected wierwille's attributes, characteristics, carnality and modus operandi thousands of times. But the reasons why wierwille built a pyramid-system (and all its trappings) and levels to scale this manufactured spirituality known at The Way International was because..... wierwille was a man of the flesh. Wierwille did NOT know God....in the biblical sense. Therefore, he tweaked around the edges and worked in the shadowy terrain of a deceiver.
I think if it has to do with what the way wants someone to do they attach "spiritual" to the concept. Spiritual partner comes to mind with the way corps...there's nothing spiritual about sending a ministry money to take care of someone while they are in twi custody.
BAZINGA! as Sheldon Cooper would say.
12 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
I think you're right. Calling something spiritual or holy or enlightened, doesn't make it so. But that is all victor and Loy and the organization ever did. Naming. Labeling. Words... empty words.
12 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Spiritual matters just can't be handled this way. "Spiritual goal" is a non-starter, it's an oxymoron, it's a false proposition.
It's a curtain of verbiage.
BAM! as Emeril is wont to say.
T-Bone said:
Quote
It was all bull$hit. How do you measure that? I remember wierwille saying speaking in tongues will make you grow big and fat spiritually. Really? How do you measure that?
Obviously we can't measure it. I'd bet, however, twi would use such notions to narcissistically justify the spiritual nature of it. Wouldn't change that it's still all bull$hit.
Then Skyrider summed it all up:
Quote
"Spiritual Goals" was (is) a nebulous, vague concept that wierwille injected into the twi-lexicon to coerce followers to the next higher level of twi-servitude. In its most basic form, having "spiritual goals" was OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE/TWI.
“Spiritual goals” in TWI are code words for the next step on the hamster wheel for the individual. The next level class, program, or assignment continually in the face keeps the hamster motivated happy and productive.
To say nothing of the tendency in twi for "leadership" to slap the adjective "spiritual" to anything- as if it changed the properties. vpw himself said that, if you took a jar of pickles, and changed the label to "apple butter", that didn't change the pickles on the inside. However, that's exactly what he did. lcm did the same- thus, he'd freak out about something, yell about it at length, then, when he was in control of himself again, announce that the preceding tantrum was actually "spiritual anger"- thus, not a tantrum at all.
I'm forgetting a lot of the more common examples. I do remember that- in the late 80s- I'd gotten so tired of the "spiritual noun" business that I started to make fun of it. I ran into another college-age person at an ROA who seemed to be in a good mood. I said he looked like he'd had "a spiritual bl**j**." He cracked up at that, more to the nerve it took to make that joke than anything else, I suspect.
It's coming back to me how much "spiritual whatever" was in twi. For a time, that seemed like a piece of any long discussion. "Where's he going to fit that phrase in his teaching?" Not a very long time for me, but then I was out of twi shortly after that, so if they kept it up for the next decade, it's not like I would have known.
“Spiritual goals” in TWI are code words for the next step on the hamster wheel for the individual. The next level class, program, or assignment continually in the face keeps the hamster motivated happy and productive.
Productive means keeping the honchos in NK flowing in cash.
To say nothing of the tendency in twi for "leadership" to slap the adjective "spiritual" to anything- as if it changed the properties. vpw himself said that, if you took a jar of pickles, and changed the label to "apple butter", that didn't change the pickles on the inside.
To say nothing of the tendency in twi for "leadership" to slap the adjective "spiritual" to anything- as if it changed the properties. vpw himself said that, if you took a jar of pickles, and changed the label to "apple butter", that didn't change the pickles on the inside. However, that's exactly what he did. lcm did the same- thus, he'd freak out about something, yell about it at length, then, when he was in control of himself again, announce that the preceding tantrum was actually "spiritual anger"- thus, not a tantrum at all.
I'm forgetting a lot of the more common examples. I do remember that- in the late 80s- I'd gotten so tired of the "spiritual noun" business that I started to make fun of it. I ran into another college-age person at an ROA who seemed to be in a good mood. I said he looked like he'd had "a spiritual bl**j**." He cracked up at that, more to the nerve it took to make that joke than anything else, I suspect.
It's coming back to me how much "spiritual whatever" was in twi. For a time, that seemed like a piece of any long discussion. "Where's he going to fit that phrase in his teaching?" Not a very long time for me, but then I was out of twi shortly after that, so if they kept it up for the next decade, it's not like I would have known.
Lest we forget..... wierwille's teachings on "spiritual adultery."
Lest we forget..... wierwille's teachings on "spiritual adultery."
Yeah, I remember that. Didn't "Father" show him this great kernel of truth in a fit of revelation or something? If you questioned the validity of it, you were told to SIT more and renew your mind. Only the spiritually weak had trouble understanding it. Now, you wouldn't want anyone to think you're spiritually weak, would you?
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OldSkool
I think if it has to do with what the way wants someone to do they attach "spiritual" to the concept. Spiritual partner comes to mind with the way corps...theres nothing spiritual about sending a mini
skyrider
Rocky, OldSkool, Waysider, WordWolf, T-Bone, Twinky ---- ALL of you are right. "Spiritual Goals" was (is) a nebulous, vague concept that wierwille injected into the twi-lexicon to coerce follower
OldSkool
It seems you have taken some very logical steps with wierwille's illogic and rationalization.
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OldSkool
- What does it mean? -
Im not realy sure if there is an exact meaning, biblical or otherwise. In practice a spiritual goal can be anything from working to build scriptural concepts into your life to going way corps. I can say for sure though that the way corps use that term to push people into participation of all things TWI. It's really a bait and switch tactic so you end up putting the way international first in your life.
- Is it exclusice to Corps? -
Definately not, but spiritual goals can be used to corral people into the way corps.
- How are these goals measured and tracked? -
Well, there really isn't a set method. Basically, it comes down to what ever your leadership wants to measure and track.
- Does this go back to Loy? Victor? The Bible? Who coined this phrase? -
I am not sure so I defer to others on this one. When I got involved in 1996 I can remember spiritual goals being pushed down my throat right from the end of my first foundational class. Im going out on a limb here, but I really think the phreasology and concept have everything to do with drumming up people to participate in all things TWI. Think programs but definately not limited to programs. Your spiritual goal coud be to attend the advanced class. It's really an open ended application with the least common denominator being participation in TWI.
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Rocky
Ugh. So, it's a subculture construct with no concrete meaning?
I reflect back on some of Skyrider's posts about the obsessive need for "leadership" [self-appointed human masters/slave drivers] to pester underlings into some form of compliance with nebulous busy work demands in support of selling classes with made up importance.
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OldSkool
I think that's a fair assessment unless someone can provide some sort of history that makes it all make sense. Skyrider's posts seem to hit the nail on the head.
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Rocky
I doubt anyone can provide any kind of history or concrete meaning. But hey, maybe.
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OldSkool
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T-Bone
I have to agree with Rocky and OldSkool about Skyrider’s posts being a great exposé on the pseudo-spirituality of The Way International and especially the way corps program.
And I think OldSkool’s post has good answers to Nathan’s questions.
~ ~ ~ ~
I do want to add a few things on this question:
How are these goals measured and tracked?
My mind immediately went to corps evaluations – I forget the exact details on them (who cares anyway
) corps evals were conducted periodically at the end of each block in-residence - not sure. And they were done by the staff person over your job assignment. In a one-on-one private setting with the staff / corps student. If memory serves – it was at least a couple of pages – with leading questions and a blank space below that for the staff person to write stuff from the evaluation session of dialog. Trying to remember specific questions – but it’s been a long time – some 38 years ago. I’m thinking some were like typical HR questions – does the participant work well with others? this is what they did at Rome City anyway…can’t say if it was the same format at other campuses. It was a form of feedback from a work interview standpoint. but I don't think it had anything to do with spirituality...probably more about conformity and indoctrination gauges.
I don’t have any big beefs about the corps evals – some of it kinda made sense to me from merely being good prep for entering the general work force…but to add more depth to the question How are these SPIRITUAL goals measured and tracked? I would have to say the corps evals, along with any other methods that leadership devised to make a judgement or assess were just about as accurate as a blind guy critiquing Leonardo da Vinci’s The Last Supper: Hmmm yes this – what did you say this was? – oh right a painting. May I hold it and feel how heavy it is?
my opinion because the TWI-mindset promoted by wierwille, LCM and others actually discouraged real mindfulness, cognitive skills become diminished and even atrophied. I don’t think wierwille could have recognized a spiritual goal if it was as big as an elephant stomping on his pack of Kool cigs. Read about his lazy-a$$ work ethic and plagiarism on Grease Spot – and yet he claimed he taught the corps how to work the Word AND a physical job…yeah right.
Edited by T-Bonereevaluating evaluations is invaluable to say the least...does that mean they're priceless?
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waysider
Spiritual goals are your plans for serving The Way, such as witnessing more, running more classes, etc. Personal spiritual goals, such as studying more, speaking in tongues more, reading Ephesians every day, etc. are goals you pursue with an ultimate view toward the benefit of the organization.
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Nathan_Jr
I'll offer an opinion, but I'd like to hear from Waysider, Skyrider, WordWolf, TBone, and Chockfull...if they can add.
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WordWolf
Everything useful on the topic's already been said! :)
It was vague so twi could make it mean whatever they wanted, to get people to do whatever twi wanted them to do, which was usually to promote twi, run classes, etc.
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Twinky
So, how are "spiritual goals" different from any other kind of goals?
Kid: "I want to be an astronaut/doctor/teacher/racing car driver/great sportsman when I grow up."
Parents: "To achieve that, you'll need to develop skills in..., practice ..., study these subjects, learn to do these things, etc "
Kid: "I want to be a church minister when I grow up."
Parents: "To achieve that, you'll need to develop skills in..., practice ..., study these subjects, learn to do these things, etc "
If you have other goals, like deepening your understanding of who God is, what God does, how prayer works (or doesn't), such cannot be quantified or evaluated in the same way. We can all read Bibles, memorise Bible verses, etc. How much reading and repetition of verses can be evaluated.
But the results of one's study to understand and apply in daily practice should be evident in a richer life that demonstrates more of the qualities that God demands of believers: justice, kindness, gentleness, compassion, empathy, generosity, etc. ("Oh yes, I'm 20% more kind than I was this time last year." "80% of my prayers were answered this year." NOT!)
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OldSkool
I think if it has to do with what the way wants someone to do they attach "spiritual" to the concept. Spiritual partner comes to mind with the way corps...theres nothing spiritual about sending a ministry money to take care of someone while they are in twi custody.
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Twinky
Yep, spiritual partners. They prayed for in rez WC, and their in rez partners prayed for them. They sent in sponsorship; the WC rez sent letters sharing what had been taught. That was the idea, anyway.
I don't know if they were considered spiritual partners if they just mutually prayed, and sent letters to each other. Maybe that wasn't "spiritual" enough if they didn't sent do$h as well. Though outside TWI, it would be considered that the praying was the more important "spiritual" part.
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Nathan_Jr
This is exactly what it's about, nothing more, nothing less, nothing "spiritual." It should be recognizable to anyone working for any organization interested in developing its talent in order to achieve growth goals for the company. Human Resources 101.
Thank you. This is the point.
Right. There is NOTHING spiritual about any of those activities. To label them as spiritual doesn't make them so.
Right. A goal of learning a new language, like Greek, can be measured and tracked. One can easily prove one's fluency. For example, one can be held accountable for progress in an academic setting by proving proficiency on tests.
But how will one measure one's understanding of what God is? Who will hold one accountable for achieving this understanding, this "goal"? Is spiritual awareness something at all to be achieved? Who will say if and when you have achieved this "goal"? One must find out for one's self, alone, what spirit, spiritual, spirituality means. When one does, this idea of "spiritual goal" will become self-evidently silly.
Spiritual matters just can't be handled this way. "Spiritual goal" is a non-starter, it's an oxymoron, it's a false proposition.
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Nathan_Jr
I think you're right. Calling something spiritual or holy or enlightened, doesn't make it so. But that is all victor and Loy and the organization ever did. Naming. Labeling. Words... empty words.
It's a curtain of verbiage.
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T-Bone
That’s probably the best answer right there, Nathan!
The term spiritual goals puts us in the often elusive, mysterious and downright puzzling metaphysical world. From several online definitions of metaphysical: a division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology; abstract philosophical studies : a study of what is outside objective experience; philosophy. concerned with abstract thought or subjects, as existence, causality, or truth; bodiless, discarnate, disembodied, immaterial, incorporeal, insubstantial, nonphysical, spiritual, unbodied, uncorporal, unsubstantial; of or coming from, or relating to forces or beings that exist outside the natural world; extramundane, extrasensory, miraculous, preternatural, superhuman, supernatural, superphysical, supersensible, transcendental, unearthly.
Keeping in mind the fine-tuned question How are these spiritual goals measured and tracked? - in my opinion there seems to be only one answer: to make sense of anything, each of us will draw up a mental map of reality and by self-reference determine on our own self-authored metaphysical chart where we are and where we are going.
~ ~ ~ ~
On another thread - here - I referenced a Psychology Today article about 7 qualities of the true self . One of those qualities is spirituality - which many associate with religious beliefs – but I beg to differ – as I read the following excerpt I understand it to mean being openminded while plotting a course on a metaphysical map. The subtopic of spirituality of this article opens with a quote from Abraham Heschel a Polish-born American rabbi and one of the leading Jewish theologians and Jewish philosophers of the 20th century; he was a professor of Jewish mysticism at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, authored a number of widely read books on Jewish philosophy and was a leader in the civil rights movement – his quote is a strong indication that spirituality connotes a much broader meaning than being just a religious concern…anyway the excerpt on spirituality:
“A return to reverence is the first prerequisite for a revival of wisdom…Wisdom comes from awe rather than shrewdness. It is evoked not in moments of calculation but in moments of being in rapport with the mystery of reality.” Abraham Heschel
…You can experience God, but whether you subscribe to a particular religion, develop a personal understanding of spirit, or deny all divinities and are an atheist, there exists one certainty: things occur in life over which you have no control. You can attribute these things to fate, randomness, nature, physical reality, or God. I personally believe that it is the Spirit that provides the answers for us in all things. We find the Spirit when we discover and actively engage our True Self. When we connect to our Self, Others, and God, and hear the voices of our thoughts (our mind), our feelings (our heart), and our spirit (our soul), we both explain and understand our nature and how these connections bring us fulfillment.
End of excerpt
~ ~ ~ ~
the misconceptions I had about being able to measure and track spiritual goals can be traced all the way back to my introduction into wierwille’s pseudo-spirituality of PFAL. My first Twig Coordinator showed me the benefits listed on the back of the PFAL green sign-up card and then asked me - if you could have one of those – which would it be? I picked enables you to separate truth from error.
And thus began my long and arduous journey to nowhere special using some screwed up map drawn up by a cartographer who also happened to be a lazy-a$$ plagiarizing, lying, thieving, Drambuie drinking, chain-smoking sexual predator. Needless to say, I was all over the map – not to be confused with his bogus motto The Word over the world - rather it was wierwille’s word over - as in dominating my world.
Thinking of other claims on the back of the green card…teaches you how to pray effectively…or was it effectually? Doesn’t matter. It was all bull$hit. How do you measure that? I remember wierwille saying speaking in tongues will make you grow big and fat spiritually. Really? How do you measure that? I think that was all junk food – and back then if they had a metaphysical scale where I could have weighed myself it would probably have tipped the scales way over into the pretentious, ludicrous, egotistical, and useless weight division of the universe.
Edited by T-BoneMapping the unmappable for over a sixteenth of a century
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skyrider
Rocky, OldSkool, Waysider, WordWolf, T-Bone, Twinky ---- ALL of you are right.
"Spiritual Goals" was (is) a nebulous, vague concept that wierwille injected into the twi-lexicon to coerce followers to the next higher level of twi-servitude. In its most basic form, having "spiritual goals" was OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE/TWI.
Occam's razor ...... ie. the simplest answer is most generally right.
Like Scientology, many groups have their own brand of "spiritual achievement." For reasons known by psychologists, people seem more motivated when there is a "level to climb" in front of them. Not only does it give the person personal satisfaction, but it broadcasts to others in the group that this person has reached another level. Like crabs in a bucket.... each one trying to climb over each other to get to the top. Wierwille stumbled along for decades until he grasped onto the three main "levels" that would define his ministry......1) staff, 2) advanced class grad, and 3) corps.
The College Division group was short-lived......as was Fellow Laborers. IMO, wierwille did not promote fellow laborers, because it was state-run and did not involve headquarters. Thus, wierwille had no use for it.
Here at GSC, we've discussed and dissected wierwille's attributes, characteristics, carnality and modus operandi thousands of times. But the reasons why wierwille built a pyramid-system (and all its trappings) and levels to scale this manufactured spirituality known at The Way International was because..... wierwille was a man of the flesh. Wierwille did NOT know God....in the biblical sense. Therefore, he tweaked around the edges and worked in the shadowy terrain of a deceiver.
Edited by skyridertypo
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Nathan_Jr
Perfect! Thank you, Skyrider!
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Rocky
BAZINGA! as Sheldon Cooper would say.
BAM! as Emeril is wont to say.
T-Bone said:
Obviously we can't measure it. I'd bet, however, twi would use such notions to narcissistically justify the spiritual nature of it. Wouldn't change that it's still all bull$hit.
Then Skyrider summed it all up:
Of course!
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chockfull
“Spiritual goals” in TWI are code words for the next step on the hamster wheel for the individual. The next level class, program, or assignment continually in the face keeps the hamster motivated happy and productive.
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WordWolf
To say nothing of the tendency in twi for "leadership" to slap the adjective "spiritual" to anything- as if it changed the properties. vpw himself said that, if you took a jar of pickles, and changed the label to "apple butter", that didn't change the pickles on the inside. However, that's exactly what he did. lcm did the same- thus, he'd freak out about something, yell about it at length, then, when he was in control of himself again, announce that the preceding tantrum was actually "spiritual anger"- thus, not a tantrum at all.
I'm forgetting a lot of the more common examples. I do remember that- in the late 80s- I'd gotten so tired of the "spiritual noun" business that I started to make fun of it. I ran into another college-age person at an ROA who seemed to be in a good mood. I said he looked like he'd had "a spiritual bl**j**." He cracked up at that, more to the nerve it took to make that joke than anything else, I suspect.
It's coming back to me how much "spiritual whatever" was in twi. For a time, that seemed like a piece of any long discussion. "Where's he going to fit that phrase in his teaching?" Not a very long time for me, but then I was out of twi shortly after that, so if they kept it up for the next decade, it's not like I would have known.
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Rocky
Productive means keeping the honchos in NK flowing in cash.
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Rocky
They taught emotional projection by constant demonstration.
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skyrider
Lest we forget..... wierwille's teachings on "spiritual adultery."
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waysider
Yeah, I remember that. Didn't "Father" show him this great kernel of truth in a fit of revelation or something? If you questioned the validity of it, you were told to SIT more and renew your mind. Only the spiritually weak had trouble understanding it. Now, you wouldn't want anyone to think you're spiritually weak, would you?
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