It seems he gets something emotionally from posting at GSC, yet he has not yet articulated what it is that he gets.
And I wish those who criticize him, ("crudely" or "scatologically") would engage in some serious introspection. He claims you force him to respond. Well, the way I see it, the incentive is reciprocal.
You want to shut him up?
Don't feed [the troll] his emotional incentives.
Some of you have heard this from me before.
So, it's not just Mike who needs to exercise self-awareness and self-discipline.
You will NOT EVER change his mind. NOT EVER "win" an argument with him. Get honest with yourselves.
Skyrider identified Mike as a provocateur. Are you co-dependent?
Well said, Rocky.
In re-reading these last few pages on this thread.... Mike only digs in deeper when challenged. He simply makes it his quest to prove his points AGAIN.
As WordWolf pointed out..... Mike posts here at GSC, because he has worn out his welcome everywhere else. Twi sites and splinter sites do NOT have discussion forums. They will not allow thought and speech to flow freely, because they know how challenging it is to monitor it. So, with very little else out there..... Mike is "forced" to come here where he is not banned.
Invariably, there is a self-perpetual emotional incentive for Mike when he posts here. He's been doing this for 20 years! Rarely, does he start threads, but moves in when he sees an opportunity to elevate wierwille's written works. Thus, not every thread is derailed into "Mikeville"..... but all of them where he invests heavily in challenging statements and banter to where the train leaves its tracks.
The only way to stop his train is to NOT acknowledge its presence or passing. Treat Mike's ramblings [trolling] like a ghost train in the night with no destination in sight.
The only way to stop his train is to NOT acknowledge its presence or passing. Treat Mike's ramblings [trolling] like a ghost train in the night with no destination in sight.
As WordWolf pointed out..... Mike posts here at GSC, because he has worn out his welcome everywhere else.
What a big lie! If you read what I posted, I only saw a few posted gently deleted. I contacted the admins and made friends for future negotiations. I am making friends with more and more of them.
Translation- Mike has worn out his welcome everywhere else.
Translation: one total damnable LIE !
You owe me an apology. You got it 100% wrong.
I walked on their eggshells and made friends with the admins of those forums. We may do things in the future.
Read my report to OlkSkool on it above. The timestamps just may prove my point, that you glossed over my more detailed description of it, in favor of your biased speculation.
Why do you speculate with such a heavy bias?
Is that how you do Biblical research?
Shooting from the hip?
I have a few other big beefs with your misrepresentations.
I was the one who told the stories of VPW being a hoodlum in High School, and standing on his motorcycle blasting through town.
You dutifully reported on that several times here. But you conveniently left out the punch line, why I told those stories! Why my HQ co-worker told those stories to me. You left that part out. Was it intentional?
Are you going to go back to the "originals" to find out what my punch line for those stories was? What my co-worker's punch line was? Why she told me those stories?
That entire comment seems contrary to how anyone with even a modicum of emotional intelligence would approach a situation where he felt he was wronged.
Emotional intelligence is commonly defined by four attributes:
Self-management– You're able to control impulsive feelings and behaviors, manage your emotions in healthy ways, take initiative, follow through on commitments, and adapt to changing circumstances.
Self-awareness– You recognize your own emotions and how they affect your thoughts and behavior. You know your strengths and weaknesses, and have self-confidence.
Social awareness– You haveempathy. You can understand the emotions, needs, and concerns of other people, pick up on emotional cues, feel comfortable socially, and recognize the power dynamics in a group or organization.
Relationship management– You know how to develop and maintain good relationships, communicate clearly, inspire and influence others, work well in a team, and manage conflict.
More than 20 years. ZERO flexibility in your arguments/positions. ZERO demonstration of empathy for those who attempt to engage in open honest discourse with you.
I realize it will sting, emotionally, for you to give up your QUEST to prove us all wrong, but you have NOT fostered relationships here. I wish you well, but you're really not a part of the community. You're an annoyance. You're tolerated... barely.
When a person feels that they are being blamed—whether rightly or wrongly—it’s common that they respond with defensiveness. “I” statements are a simple way of speaking that will help you avoid this trap by reducing feelings of blame. A good “I” statement takes responsibility for one’s own feelings, while tactfully describing a problem. “I feel emotion word when explanation.” “I feel…” must be followed with an emotion word, such as “angry”, “hurt”, or “worried”. Careful wording won’t help if your voice still sounds blaming. Use a soft and even tone. In your explanation, gently describe how the other person’s actions affect you
When a person feels that they are being blamed—whether rightly or wrongly—it’s common that they respond with defensiveness. “I” statements are a simple way of speaking that will help you avoid this trap by reducing feelings of blame. A good “I” statement takes responsibility for one’s own feelings, while tactfully describing a problem. “I feel emotion word when explanation.” “I feel…” must be followed with an emotion word, such as “angry”, “hurt”, or “worried”. Careful wording won’t help if your voice still sounds blaming. Use a soft and even tone. In your explanation, gently describe how the other person’s actions affect you
Gold idea Rocky. There's another step if one wishes to use it. That's where you share a suggestion that you think might be helpful such as, "It would help if you/we could..." It's just a way of expressing what one needs. The key is to ask respectfully instead of insisting such action must happen which would then hint back to "it's all your fault so you need to fix it".
Are you going to go back to the "originals" to find out what my punch line for those stories was? What my co-worker's punch line was? Why she told me those stories?
And I apparently sometimes use "you're" when I should (and meant) "your."
Yeah, and not to be cantankerous, but I didn't say that stupid $h!7 that mike posted earlier on scatology or whatever it was exasctly...so it's a bit different than misplaced punctuation. By as I noted by acknoldging that I understand how easy it is to have the wrong person quoted as something mike says and followed with an ...lol...because I refuse to take a message board too seriously. Peace!
So, it's not just Mike who needs to exercise self-awareness and self-discipline.
You will NOT EVER change his mind. NOT EVER "win" an argument with him. Get honest with yourselves.
Skyrider identified Mike as a provocateur. Are you co-dependent?
Im down with what you are saying, but is it different when you engage him vs say T-Bone? I respect where you are coming from and agree that there are many non-sensical posts responding to mike and I sure have my share of non-sensical BS retorts as well...but your responding to mike multiple times and discouraging others from responding to his BS? How does that work?
Personally, I will respond to mike as I see fit. I dont think its exactly equitable to have a guy who obviously trolls the forums and likes starting a big mess amongst participants here and then tell the ones who feel the need to respond to his BS that they are wrong for responding. Kinda like tellng a kid to ignore the playground bully...personally, I fought back. So, Im not gonna not respond to his garbage, although I can respond in a more professional and terse manner and work to get the topic(s) back on track. I can meet ya half way in that manner.
Kinda like tellng a kid to ignore the playground bully...personally, I fought back
While both these approaches may or may not have merit for a kid on the playground, they almost never work in the adult world. Consider this analogy of learning to play piano: When you're a kid, you hone your chops by practicing scales, droning on and on with repetitive drills. But, the end goal is to sit before a live audience and impress them with an emotional performance of Moonlight Sonata. In other words, you have to become much more skilled. And that's what bullies do. They become much more skilled at applying nuanced methods. Please note, I'm not accusing anyone of being a bully.
As an adult ,having personally endured some horrendous corporate bullying at the hands of serial bullies, I can tell you the answer is not always simple or identifiably gratifying. One solution that seems to work is to just remove yourself from the bully. That's not always easy, though, and often comes at the cost of relinquishing the last word. Even so, it can sometimes be the ultimate solution. In the process, you have to also learn to recognize what made you a target in the first place or the victory will be pyrrhic. Another solution that sometimes works is to help the bully obligingly embarrass theirself. Bullies hate to be embarrassed, especially when it's of their own doing.
I have no real idea how this relates to the current situation. It's just some food for thought and decidedly off-topic to the current Absent Christ theme .
While both these approaches may or may not have merit for a kid on the playground, they almost never work in the adult world. Consider this analogy of learning to play piano: When you're a kid, you hone your chops by practicing scales, droning on and on with repetitive drills. But, the end goal is to sit before a live audience and impress them with an emotional performance of Moonlight Sonata. In other words, you have to become much more skilled. And that's what bullies do. They become much more skilled at applying nuanced methods. Please note, I'm not accusing anyone of being a bully.
As an adult ,having personally endured some horrendous corporate bullying at the hands of serial bullies, I can tell you the answer is not always simple or identifiably gratifying. One solution that seems to work is to just remove yourself from the bully. That's not always easy, though, and often comes at the cost of relinquishing the last word. Even so, it can sometimes be the ultimate solution. In the process, you have to also learn to recognize what made you a target in the first place or the victory will be pyrrhic. Another solution that sometimes works is to help the bully obligingly embarrass theirself. Bullies hate to be embarrassed, especially when it's of their own doing.
I have no real idea how this relates to the current situation. It's just some food for thought and decidedly off-topic to the current Absent Christ theme .
Once bullying becomes disembodied and institutionalized, you can't point a specific person anymore. That's why you have to break down how it works. At some point, it won't come in the form a person.
have no real idea how this relates to the current situation. It's just some food for thought and decidedly off-topic to the current Absent Christ theme .
It was a very simple analogy with a very limited scope of comparison...not calling anyone a bully either.
While both these approaches may or may not have merit for a kid on the playground, they almost never work in the adult world. Consider this analogy of learning to play piano: When you're a kid, you hone your chops by practicing scales, droning on and on with repetitive drills. But, the end goal is to sit before a live audience and impress them with an emotional performance of Moonlight Sonata. In other words, you have to become much more skilled. And that's what bullies do. They become much more skilled at applying nuanced methods. Please note, I'm not accusing anyone of being a bully.
As an adult ,having personally endured some horrendous corporate bullying at the hands of serial bullies, I can tell you the answer is not always simple or identifiably gratifying. One solution that seems to work is to just remove yourself from the bully. That's not always easy, though, and often comes at the cost of relinquishing the last word. Even so, it can sometimes be the ultimate solution. In the process, you have to also learn to recognize what made you a target in the first place or the victory will be pyrrhic. Another solution that sometimes works is to help the bully obligingly embarrass theirself. Bullies hate to be embarrassed, especially when it's of their own doing.
I have no real idea how this relates to the current situation. It's just some food for thought and decidedly off-topic to the current Absent Christ theme .
And ditto. I fought the directors at the way international for 2 years...I understand corporate bullying...oh boy do I ever...thanks for the thoughtful response.
One things for certain and two things for sure: Any internet troll loves starting conflict between other participants.
Well, I do not like to start conflicts, and I do things to calm things down often.
Rocky and Charity, I agree with you on the I statements. I have heard of that, and even try to use it. It takes practice.
I'm thinking of taking a GreaseSpot vacation. I have had to do that with Facebook in the past when things would get under my skin and interest turns to preoccupation or even obsession.
Maybe I'll take a retreat in the Doctrinal section and work on one thread there, and let the other threads calm down.
So the ascension when taken literally, which is a big no-no, sounds like Jesus lifted off like a Saturn V rocket. Which is nonsense.
He stood on a hill, which is height. Lifted up which emphasizes that further. And the cloud is symbolic of power.
He disappeared. Not absent, not present, but also absent and present. Transfigured.
Then the Comforter came and moved The People.
That sounds of political and social importance to me. For Christians and Non-Christians, this is unavoidable.
(A millennia and a half later, Sola Scriptura is another act of Politics and Society)
In Disney's Pinocchio, God the Father would be symbolized by Geppetto. An old man focused on old ways. His shop was full of clocks, like Father Time. Pinocchio had to descend into the depths and awaken his sleeping father from the beast (the whale at the bottom of the sea). Pinocchio sacrificed himself.
Jesus had to go back to his Father. Jesus is the renewal aspect in a Process. So he had to leave.
The sending of the Comforter, the Spirit of God, symbolizes a new event?
Jesus can be absent and present, because that's the nature of a cycle?
In Disney's Pinocchio, God the Father would be symbolized by Geppetto. An old man focused on old ways. His shop was full of clocks, like Father Time. Pinocchio had to descend into the depths and awaken his sleeping father from the beast (the whale at the bottom of the sea). Pinocchio sacrificed himself.
Jesus had to go back to his Father. Jesus is the renewal aspect in a Process. So he had to leave.
The sending of the Comforter, the Spirit of God, symbolizes a new event?
Jesus can be absent and present, because that's the nature of a cycle?
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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T-Bone
wish I had one of those when I was a kid...sigh...the absent toy.
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waysider
I'll be a sunbeam!
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skyrider
Well said, Rocky.
In re-reading these last few pages on this thread.... Mike only digs in deeper when challenged. He simply makes it his quest to prove his points AGAIN.
As WordWolf pointed out..... Mike posts here at GSC, because he has worn out his welcome everywhere else. Twi sites and splinter sites do NOT have discussion forums. They will not allow thought and speech to flow freely, because they know how challenging it is to monitor it. So, with very little else out there..... Mike is "forced" to come here where he is not banned.
Invariably, there is a self-perpetual emotional incentive for Mike when he posts here. He's been doing this for 20 years! Rarely, does he start threads, but moves in when he sees an opportunity to elevate wierwille's written works. Thus, not every thread is derailed into "Mikeville"..... but all of them where he invests heavily in challenging statements and banter to where the train leaves its tracks.
The only way to stop his train is to NOT acknowledge its presence or passing. Treat Mike's ramblings [trolling] like a ghost train in the night with no destination in sight.
.
Edited by skyridertypos
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Rocky
Okay, that's fair.
Now, do you believe what Mike does on GSC, in reality and actuality, does in fact constitute open and honest discussion?
6 rules for open and honest communication in a relationship:
1 Be Timely
2 Be FLEXIBLE
3 Be patient
4 Be intuitive
5 Be accepting
6 Be honest
In more than two decades, has Mike materially demonstrated flexibility in his thinking or with the positions he argues?
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Rocky
Agreed
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Rocky
Case in point.
That's counterproductive to open and honest discussion.
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Mike
What a big lie! If you read what I posted, I only saw a few posted gently deleted. I contacted the admins and made friends for future negotiations. I am making friends with more and more of them.
WW, shame on you !!
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Mike
Translation: one total damnable LIE !
You owe me an apology. You got it 100% wrong.
I walked on their eggshells and made friends with the admins of those forums. We may do things in the future.
Read my report to OlkSkool on it above. The timestamps just may prove my point, that you glossed over my more detailed description of it, in favor of your biased speculation.
Why do you speculate with such a heavy bias?
Is that how you do Biblical research?
Shooting from the hip?
I have a few other big beefs with your misrepresentations.
I was the one who told the stories of VPW being a hoodlum in High School, and standing on his motorcycle blasting through town.
You dutifully reported on that several times here. But you conveniently left out the punch line, why I told those stories! Why my HQ co-worker told those stories to me. You left that part out. Was it intentional?
Are you going to go back to the "originals" to find out what my punch line for those stories was? What my co-worker's punch line was? Why she told me those stories?
You are a not a good historian here.
You intentionally misrepresent things.
You slant things with your heavy bias.
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Rocky
That entire comment seems contrary to how anyone with even a modicum of emotional intelligence would approach a situation where he felt he was wronged.
Perhaps this might help:
Emotional intelligence is commonly defined by four attributes:
More than 20 years. ZERO flexibility in your arguments/positions. ZERO demonstration of empathy for those who attempt to engage in open honest discourse with you.
Edited by RockyI realize it will sting, emotionally, for you to give up your QUEST to prove us all wrong, but you have NOT fostered relationships here. I wish you well, but you're really not a part of the community. You're an annoyance. You're tolerated... barely.
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Rocky
Have you ever heard of "I" statements?
When a person feels that they are being blamed—whether rightly or wrongly—it’s common that they respond with defensiveness. “I” statements are a simple way of speaking that will help you avoid this trap by reducing feelings of blame. A good “I” statement takes responsibility for one’s own feelings, while tactfully describing a problem. “I feel emotion word when explanation.” “I feel…” must be followed with an emotion word, such as “angry”, “hurt”, or “worried”. Careful wording won’t help if your voice still sounds blaming. Use a soft and even tone. In your explanation, gently describe how the other person’s actions affect you
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Charity
Gold idea Rocky. There's another step if one wishes to use it. That's where you share a suggestion that you think might be helpful such as, "It would help if you/we could..." It's just a way of expressing what one needs. The key is to ask respectfully instead of insisting such action must happen which would then hint back to "it's all your fault so you need to fix it".
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waysider
I must have missed it. What was the punchline?
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OldSkool
Yeah, and not to be cantankerous, but I didn't say that stupid $h!7 that mike posted earlier on scatology or whatever it was exasctly...so it's a bit different than misplaced punctuation. By as I noted by acknoldging that I understand how easy it is to have the wrong person quoted as something mike says and followed with an ...lol...because I refuse to take a message board too seriously. Peace!
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OldSkool
Im down with what you are saying, but is it different when you engage him vs say T-Bone? I respect where you are coming from and agree that there are many non-sensical posts responding to mike and I sure have my share of non-sensical BS retorts as well...but your responding to mike multiple times and discouraging others from responding to his BS? How does that work?
Personally, I will respond to mike as I see fit. I dont think its exactly equitable to have a guy who obviously trolls the forums and likes starting a big mess amongst participants here and then tell the ones who feel the need to respond to his BS that they are wrong for responding. Kinda like tellng a kid to ignore the playground bully...personally, I fought back. So, Im not gonna not respond to his garbage, although I can respond in a more professional and terse manner and work to get the topic(s) back on track. I can meet ya half way in that manner.
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OldSkool
One things for certain and two things for sure: Any internet troll loves starting conflict between other participants.
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Bolshevik
So the ascension when taken literally, which is a big no-no, sounds like Jesus lifted off like a Saturn V rocket. Which is nonsense.
He stood on a hill, which is height. Lifted up which emphasizes that further. And the cloud is symbolic of power.
He disappeared. Not absent, not present, but also absent and present. Transfigured.
Then the Comforter came and moved The People.
That sounds of political and social importance to me. For Christians and Non-Christians, this is unavoidable.
(A millennia and a half later, Sola Scriptura is another act of Politics and Society)
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waysider
While both these approaches may or may not have merit for a kid on the playground, they almost never work in the adult world. Consider this analogy of learning to play piano: When you're a kid, you hone your chops by practicing scales, droning on and on with repetitive drills. But, the end goal is to sit before a live audience and impress them with an emotional performance of Moonlight Sonata. In other words, you have to become much more skilled. And that's what bullies do. They become much more skilled at applying nuanced methods. Please note, I'm not accusing anyone of being a bully.
As an adult ,having personally endured some horrendous corporate bullying at the hands of serial bullies, I can tell you the answer is not always simple or identifiably gratifying. One solution that seems to work is to just remove yourself from the bully. That's not always easy, though, and often comes at the cost of relinquishing the last word. Even so, it can sometimes be the ultimate solution. In the process, you have to also learn to recognize what made you a target in the first place or the victory will be pyrrhic. Another solution that sometimes works is to help the bully obligingly embarrass theirself. Bullies hate to be embarrassed, especially when it's of their own doing.
I have no real idea how this relates to the current situation. It's just some food for thought and decidedly off-topic to the current Absent Christ theme .
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Bolshevik
Once bullying becomes disembodied and institutionalized, you can't point a specific person anymore. That's why you have to break down how it works. At some point, it won't come in the form a person.
Boom.
The Absent Christ.
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OldSkool
It was a very simple analogy with a very limited scope of comparison...not calling anyone a bully either.
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OldSkool
And ditto. I fought the directors at the way international for 2 years...I understand corporate bullying...oh boy do I ever...thanks for the thoughtful response.
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Mike
Well, I do not like to start conflicts, and I do things to calm things down often.
Rocky and Charity, I agree with you on the I statements. I have heard of that, and even try to use it. It takes practice.
I'm thinking of taking a GreaseSpot vacation. I have had to do that with Facebook in the past when things would get under my skin and interest turns to preoccupation or even obsession.
Maybe I'll take a retreat in the Doctrinal section and work on one thread there, and let the other threads calm down.
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Bolshevik
In Disney's Pinocchio, God the Father would be symbolized by Geppetto. An old man focused on old ways. His shop was full of clocks, like Father Time. Pinocchio had to descend into the depths and awaken his sleeping father from the beast (the whale at the bottom of the sea). Pinocchio sacrificed himself.
Jesus had to go back to his Father. Jesus is the renewal aspect in a Process. So he had to leave.
The sending of the Comforter, the Spirit of God, symbolizes a new event?
Jesus can be absent and present, because that's the nature of a cycle?
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waysider
Who does The Blue Fairy symbolize?
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Bolshevik
His Mom. Mother Nature. The Holy Spirit.
Disney used both Christian and Pagan symbolism.
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