Have you added any entries to your blue scriptures list?
If so, I want to update my folder on that.
I started that folder 30 years ago, and titled it the Post Pentecost Ministry of Jesus Christ. The first entries were the three accounts in Acts of the Road to Damascus incident.
I could change the name to the Post Ascension Ministry of Jesus Christ if it would steer this thread back to the Absent Christ topic.
Yes, I saw it. And read into it, and saw you were very far off track, and I'd have to do a lot of reading and writing on topics I'm not that interested in dwelling on. LOTS OF homework that I don't want, and I am tired, so I skimmed the rest.
I did the same thing the second time because I am tired and planned to have more energy and time tomorrow.
WHY?
Is there any thing in there that is important that I devote lots of reading and writing time to? I have my budget for time here and I don't have to account for it's details.
So what is your important point?
Make it fast to read and fast to answer... relatively. Within reason for this late hour, and me being tired.
Thanks Mike.... for acknowledging my post. You "passed the test."
Steps to take to further discussion.
Read one another's post. Don't read into it.
The post says what it means.... and means what it says.
Two-way communication opens doors for understanding.
No need to be defensive or evasive. We are simply communicating.
Facts and opinions are exchanged with view towards better understanding.
As per Will Roger's quote: "Everyone is ignorant, just on different subjects."
Healthy discussion and vibrant debate is in the DNA of the fabric of society.
Personal attacks are not welcomed.... but healthy discussion is.
There is learning whenever two opposing viewpoints collide.
Some of our greatest inventions and theories were garnered by vigorous discussions.
I think the devil tempts Christians with fake relationships with a fake Jesus, when said Christians refuse to see and obey what the church epistles tell us. It is sad to see Christians seeking comfort in a lovy-dovy, chatty idolatry with a fake Jesus, all the while they themselves were called to give genuine comfort to those who hunger to be reconciled to God.
What's so sad is that you can't see that the real Jesus wants to have this lovy-dovy, chatty relationship with you. It's true - it's even in the Bible!
Remember that Starbucks scene with Jesus you brought up on this thread or a different one. I found this website titled Why “Christ Lives in Me” is Good News which actually has it. The article begins like this:
“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me (Gal. 2:20).
For Paul to say, “Christ lives in me” is a marvelous statement of what it means to be a Christian. The Son of God can move in as the honored guest in your soul.
Think about how the Bible puts this: “I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me” (Rev. 3:20). If you have the idea that Christian faith is about believing in Christ from a distance, think again.
Christ says, “I am knocking on the door of your heart. I want to come in. I want to settle into a booth with you, and for the two of us to share breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. That’s the relationship I want with you. And that is why I stand at the door and knock.”
Only I would think of a cozier place for this than Starbucks. I read or heard somewhere that eating together in that culture took on a more intimate meaning. Other posters might know more about this.
wierwille said whatever you have to do to know the Lord Jesus Christ - just do it
Mike says to beware of having a fake relationship with a fake Jesus.
The two statements are mutually exclusive of each other...in other words, the two statements are 'related' in such a way that each makes the other impossible ....each statement is not able to be true at the same time as the other - they can't both be true!
So he took wierwille's fried eggs and refried them. Refired eggs..mmm...actually, I agree with wierwille's statement. Whatever you have to do to know the Lord Jesus: do it! Makes sense to me. Mike: Ive never said that every single thing that wierwille ever said is wrong. There's a lot of things he had right. It's just that the things that are wrong are both subtle and grevious. Anywho.
Anyone have any idea when the last post about The Absent Christ was?
On 1/27/2023 at 5:05 PM, OldSkool said:
Somewhere back there....
On 1/27/2023 at 6:42 PM, Raf said:
I'd like to reboot the thread, maybe make it a little less Mikish and a little more what were we talking about again?
No longer having a stake in the "rightly-divided" answer opens up various avenues of exploration.
I've seen you guys discussing this "absent Christ" issue for years now, and I honestly don't even remember the various things I've said about it. Is it possible, in my desire to find fault with VPW, that I hopped on the "how dare he say Christ is absent" bandwagon? It would have been easy. CES (STFI, John Lynn, Schoenheit, et al) criticized the "absent Christ" doctrine without overly criticizing Wierwille.
I know I've recently said some variation of the following, and I stand by it:
To some extent, Christ MUST be absent, or anticipating his return would be rather pointless. At the last supper, Jesus says do this "in remembrance" of me. You don't "remember" something that's present. You recognize it. You acknowledge it. You don't remember it. Christ must in some way be absent.
But let's go a little further (as I believe some of you have). The Bible does not speak of a "return" of Christ, or a "second coming." The word translated "coming" is better translated "presence," as in, it's his presence, not his return, that is the hope of the Christian. Now you may say, same thing. And I may agree, except God (or Paul, or whoever chose the word paraousia) has a purpose for everything he says... So if your hope is in his return (Biblically, his presence), then the current state of affairs must necessarily imply, in some manner, his absence.
So I don't think the "absent Christ" is unBiblical at all. It's the present Christ that needs defending, for if he is currently present, how can his presence be your hope?
And yes, I understand there are ways in which he is present as well. They've been articulated effectively. The problem, as I see it, is this need to have one answer be correct and the other incorrect, when the Bible clearly teaches both.
He is present with us by way of (the H)holy (S)spirit [I am not taking sides on that one]. He is present with us in prayer. He is the Word, and as such is present where his word is taught.
"The Word takes the place of the absent Christ" is a problematic statement, but not because it posits an absent Christ. The Bible posits an absent Christ. "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ" is problematic because it doesn't. At least not completely. No one thing takes the place of the absent Christ. But all these things together do. The Word. The spirit. Fellowship. Prayer. Love. Mercy. The manifestation of the spirit. The fruitage of the spirit. YOU. YOU take the place of the absent Christ.
Isn't God wonderful?
7 hours ago, Mike said:
I suggest you read the whole chapter in OMSW, and read all my posts in this thread. Maybe then they will fit for you. I see no reason I should write it up again, especially only to have it rejected again.
I stated when Raf intervened here that I felt the thread was over. Everything that could be said has been said. I even threw in a bonus thread that was before my time here. That summed it all up again.
You see, Mike, raf intervened because he is a moderator and he was trying to get us back on topic and unfortunately, we (myself included) have a habit of letting you comletely derail a thread when you have been proven in error. That he agrees with your position in part has more to do with his objectivity and likely from his career in journalism. He remained professional and got the topic back on track and put his own points of view out there for discussion in a logical, respectful manner..and lo and behold! He was treated with love and respect in-turn. He didn't come along talking down to an audience that he feels are inferior to his own points of view. I mention that because thats how you come off most times and then you seemingly get upset when one of us won't take it any longer. Its a bullying tactic used by the way international. Jack Clergy talks down to Joe Believer in his branch repeatedly and in a disrespectful manner. Eventually, Joe Believer stands up for himself and gets in Jack Clergy's face about it. Then Jack Clergy goes on about how Joe Believer attacked him and has a hard heart and doesn't love God and all that bullshonta Ive seen played out so many times....and here you are doing the same crap.
I wouldnt brag about Raf's intervention though you see it as a life preserver of sorts...
Quote
maybe make it a little less Mikish and a little more what were we talking about again?
Thats not something to be proud of....well, unless your goal is to derail topics...but you would never do that..
No. In other words I am tired of people with rotten hearts who are seething with hate who can't read, or who don't want to read.
Im quoting this as a continuation of my above post with the following addition:
Judgemental much? When did you become the searcher of hearts? Does God stand there like he supposedly did with VPW and indicate to you which of us has a black heart and which of us doesnt? No!
What does happen is once we disagree with you and you can't prove your point of view, which is often, you resort to name calling and judgemental insults. Im used to it, so go ahead and show your true colors. That sort of behaviour is rampant in the way international. Show the world how you guys really act behind closed doors.
No. In other words I am tired of people with rotten hearts who are seething with hate who can't read, or who don't want to read.
I am happy with what I posted. It speaks for itself WHEN you read it all, which is difficult with all the baloney smothering it.
I am happy with what I posted, and here is another example of what needs to be seen by all.
My old Zacchaeus post, slightly edited and cleaned up.
Posted April 5, 2003
I agree the TWI Verbal Tradition (TVT) got way out of hand on both Paul and Victor Paul. We got out of balance on LOTS of other things as well: grace license, guideline law, discipline, tough love, etc., just like all other churches. The first century church got out of balance and became RC.
I've found a most beautiful chapter in Dr's last book called about Zacchaeus. It’s called “Climbing High to Seek Truth.” It really dispels the myth that Dr’s teaching was bereft of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. That DID happen in TVT, but not Dr’s teachings.
Here are some of his last words to us, from that last year, and his last book.
*************************************
On page 207 he writes:
“As we pass through life, we must climb ever higher and higher in our hearts and minds with the greatness of God’s Word. We must always keep progressing to see more and more of God’s Word and His promises manifested in our daily lives.”
****
.....too many people (me included) had ended their search for more and more. We were resting on our laurels. That is... we older leader grads (OLG) were resting on our laurels. Oops! I don’t like the looks of THAT acronym. It looks too much like OLD! And, gosh! I hope Ossifer Zix from the Acromyn Enfrocement Police (AEP) doesn’t see this before I have a chance to ski daddle outta here (SDOH). He’s gonna git me fer THIS one fer shir!
*************************************
On page 212-213 he writes:
“All I know is that the Word of God says Zacchaeus was a publican and he was rich. We learn one other thing about Zacchaeus in this account and that is that he was motivated by a wonderful desire: He wanted to see Jesus.
“Luke 19:3:
“And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
“Zacchaeus wanted to see Jesus-who he was. Perhaps it was simple curiosity prompting him. The text doesn't say. But whatever the reason, at least he wanted to see Jesus. I wish that today, across our nation, there were more people who wanted to see Jesus. When people ask to see Jesus today, we've got to show him. When they want to see Jesus, who he is, we can show them God's Word and the greatness of Jesus Christ's position in the Word.
“Zacchaeus wanted to see Jesus, but he couldn't. The reason he couldn't see him or get to him was for "the press." That doesn't mean the news media, such as newspaper, radio, or television reporters. "Press" means "numbers of people." There were so many people sur-rounding Jesus that Zacchaeus couldn't get a glimpse of him.
“Verse 3:
. . . because he was little of stature.
“Zacchaeus was short. The biggest thing about him was his desire to see Jesus.
“Verse 4:
And he [Zacchaeus] ran before [ahead of where Jesus was walking], and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see him: for he [Jesus] was to pass that way.
“Zacchaeus climbed up into a sycamore tree in order to get a view of this noted person, Jesus, whom people were talking about. Zacchaeus took the necessary action to fulfill his desire. That's very important. If you want to see Jesus Christ through God's Word, you need to move, take action. Zacchaeus took the initiative and climbed up into that sycamore tree.”
**********
Ten times I count the phrase “see Jesus” in these two pages.
Couple this with the introductory paragraph I gave you from p.207, and it's progressing to SEE JESUS that he’s urging with us OLGs to do. It’s for other grads too.
*************************************
On pages 214 and 215 he writes:
“I want to tell you, whenever there are men and women desiring to know the Lord Jesus Christ, they will have that desire met according to God’s Word. Those people who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall (absolutely) be filled. That’s right. What an example of fulfilling this promise from this record in God’s Word.”
****
Again, he’s telling us to hunger for the Lord Jesus Christ.
*************************************
On pages 221 and 222 he writes:
“Jesus Christ is a physician of the soul. A physician is not needed when one is healthy. Jesus Christ comes to seek and to save, to give wholeness to those in spiritual need. He seeks those who are lost-men and women who need the Lord Jesus Christ. He has no problem ex-tending himself to you and to me, because we are the people he came to seek and to save. Hebrews 7:25 says that Jesus Christ is "able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him." Jesus Christ is always ready to meet you. He met Zacchaeus, who had climbed up in a tree to see him. Wherever there are men and women who really want to hear, Jesus Christ is always there.
“There is no one so low that the arms of the Almighty are not underneath him. There is no one so high that the arms of the Almighty are not over him. And there is no one other than His Son who can save people. For there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved.
“Ladies and gentlemen, whatever you have to do to know the Lord Jesus Christ, do it. Wherever you have to go to learn about him, do it. The one great driving force of your soul should be to know Jesus Christ. Who is he? The only way you'll ever know who Jesus Christ is is to come to God's Word. The Word makes known Jesus Christ. The Word tells you who he is. It is that Word which brings you to a knowledge of salvation.
“What do you need to hear” God's Word. Jesus Christ was that Word, the Living Word, who met Zacchaeus that day in Jericho. And he brought Zacchaeus to the great reality of being a believer, because Jesus was willing to teach him and Zacchaeus was meek to learn. If you want to experience the truth of God's Word, climb high to seek truth. God always has and always will seek out and teach those who are looking to Jesus Christ as their savior and lord.”
*************************************
When all these were coming out in print, we OLGs were all on our own trips, all imbalanced in one way or another, and these things slipped right by us (or out of us).
I tried to show some of these kinds of things to the CES bulldozers in the early 90’s after they had been blowing the whistle on how the TVT had lost track of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. I believed them for a few years, until I found a ton of things like these quotes.
The reason I believed them at first, in the late 80’s, is because I clearly saw it the TVT, but I hadn’t yet learned the VAST separation, the VAST difference between what got put into print from what went on behind the scenes. This is the case for other things that got out of balance besides the lordship deal. (Exy, this is for you)
The print record, and also the tape, has lots of things that we OLGs were learning how to tune out. We would say things in our heads like:
“Yeah, yeah, that’s just Dr”
or
“How many times have I heard THIS before?”
or
“He doesn’t really mean that. He just mis-spoke, but I’ve a hot line to the Father and I’ll correct it immediately and just forget about it.”
Us OLGs have some accounting to do. Hows come we didn’t see the VAST difference between TVT and the Word of God that God was teaching to Dr and Dr was getting into print with our help? How’s come we didn’t see that VAST difference? Because we got “Sower-and-Seed”ed that’s how! We drifted away from the pure Word in PFAL and went back to tradition and KJV "research" on our own with no 1942 promise to back us up. And our fruit tells exactly which 3 of the 4 "Sower and Seed" categories we fit into, when “all nine all the time” is used as the standard which we were shooting for.
We got work to do. Thank God for His patience with us.
Sorry to be a pill in this discussion - just trying to make sense out of your response - you say there’s no need to rewrite stuff because it speaks for itself - then you added more stuff, what needs to be read by all. How is this a discussion - when folks have questions about the first batch of stuff?
This feels more like being in a classroom with an incompetent teacher who gets impatient with students who have questions about the lesson.
I don’t think it’s fair when someone mischaracterizes confusion as having a rotten heart seething with hatred who can’t or won’t read a post. It makes me wonder what is the point of a discussion if clarifying what one says is irrelevant.
I wish you would understand how disappointing and frustrating it is to someone who does try to follow your train of thought and wants some clarification only to be condemned for paying attention and asking questions.
I get the feeling you’re trying to hide something. For example - Take this long post of yours I quoted. Your point is not revealed until the very end - it was all just an infomercial for wierwille / PFAL / the 1942 promise. You should pay attention to the honest feedback from your audience if you’re truly interested in running an idea up the flagpole. You KNOW FOR A FACT folks generally balk at the premise of wierwille / PFAL / the 1942 promise being unassailable truth.
I was not playing gotcha earlier when I pointed out the contradictory nature of your post . I was giving you honest feedback - and if you really wanted to know what I was interested in - you would have realized I PREFER the personal freedom represented in wierwille’s statement rather than being bullied with fear of the devil in your statement…if you wouldn’t let yourself get so worked up over innocent questions we might actually find some common ground.
Have you added any entries to your blue scriptures list?
Her's proof mike doesnt actually read what we post, except in a very selective manner. Mike: None of the scriptures in that list are in blue, but my comments are in blue. Had you actually read any of it you would know that but yet you accuse others of not reading your posts...ya..right...
I'm curious about the relationship people have with Christ. Wouldn't he warn them away from Fellowship in the first place?
I think people who have a relationship with Christ - the ones who know him and not just about him - would have no interest in staying long or at all if they were approached by someone in twi. Since they would already be experiencing Christ's love, they wouldn't be so susceptible to all the "love bombing." And if they were in the habit of checking with Christ before making decisions, I doubt very much that Christ would give them the go ahead to hang out with this group. So they were the safe ones.
That leaves people who either don't know Christ at all or if they do, didn't have Christ dwelling in their hearts in which case I think it would be difficult for him to warn them away from twi. Instead, they could easily be attracted to what twi offered and once hooked, remain for a long time. I was one of those people. The off-putting part was that I did think God had led me to twi because I was messed up and was seeking His help. But then again, because of my Catholic upbringing, all I knew about God was how guilty I felt around Him all the time. That's where the love bombing and twi's definition of standing righteous before God sucked me in big time.
What's so sad is that you can't see that the real Jesus wants to have this lovy-dovy, chatty relationship with you. It's true - it's even in the Bible!
Thank you for such a light filled post, compared to the riff-raff who only want to talk about me.
I will read your post again and the link as well.
I know that Jesus STRONGLY DESIRED to eat that last Passover meal with his apostles. The word used for his strong desire is usually translated "lust."
But I also know he was content to WAIT on things as God guided him. Look at how he told Mary to not touch him till all was fulfilled.
On the day of the Ascension I know the apostles yearned to see him again personally.
I am real happy to wait on the personal stuff. We will have all eternity for us ALL to make Starbucks Dates with him.
I am real happy (listening OldSkool) to see all those "peeks" or short visits or semi-personal visits, or what ever God wants to call those blue scriptures. I am very happy for them all. I would love to have him visit me; I could use some clarity of my mission(s).
That’s the relationship I want with you. And that is why I stand at the door and knock.”
Only I would think of a cozier place for this than Starbucks. I read or heard somewhere that eating together in that culture took on a more intimate meaning. Other posters might know more about this.
Yes, that part of Jesus knocking is future. He is willing to wait on the personal visits. The Christ in us relationship is not trivial; it is superior to the personal part.
I loved your link; easy to read aroung the trinity part.
Did you see the blue quotes I posted from OMSW. In one Jesus is depicted as pretty busy right now with extreme needs in the body. Please check out what VPW said on this topic in 1985, when no one was listening to him.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Mike
THAT is the post I was referring to.
What do you want to highlight for my immediate attention NOW, that can't wait for tomorrow?
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Mike
Have you added any entries to your blue scriptures list?
If so, I want to update my folder on that.
I started that folder 30 years ago, and titled it the Post Pentecost Ministry of Jesus Christ. The first entries were the three accounts in Acts of the Road to Damascus incident.
I could change the name to the Post Ascension Ministry of Jesus Christ if it would steer this thread back to the Absent Christ topic.
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skyrider
Thanks Mike.... for acknowledging my post. You "passed the test."
Steps to take to further discussion.
Have a great day, Mike.
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Rocky
Are YOU suggesting I need to answer to you as to whether I seek Jesus?
Dude, I don't know what's on your mind lately, but the words you post are NOT sound, or of sound mind.
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waysider
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Charity
What's so sad is that you can't see that the real Jesus wants to have this lovy-dovy, chatty relationship with you. It's true - it's even in the Bible!
Remember that Starbucks scene with Jesus you brought up on this thread or a different one. I found this website titled Why “Christ Lives in Me” is Good News which actually has it. The article begins like this:
“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me (Gal. 2:20).
For Paul to say, “Christ lives in me” is a marvelous statement of what it means to be a Christian. The Son of God can move in as the honored guest in your soul.
Think about how the Bible puts this: “I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me” (Rev. 3:20). If you have the idea that Christian faith is about believing in Christ from a distance, think again.
Christ says, “I am knocking on the door of your heart. I want to come in. I want to settle into a booth with you, and for the two of us to share breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. That’s the relationship I want with you. And that is why I stand at the door and knock.”
Only I would think of a cozier place for this than Starbucks. I read or heard somewhere that eating together in that culture took on a more intimate meaning.
Other posters might know more about this.
So what do you say Mike?
https://openthebible.org/article/christ-lives-in-me-is-good-news/
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OldSkool
Duuuude...classic material, vintage and classic. One of my favs...quite appropriate actually...lol....
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OldSkool
Bingo!
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OldSkool
So he took wierwille's fried eggs and refried them. Refired eggs..mmm...actually, I agree with wierwille's statement. Whatever you have to do to know the Lord Jesus: do it! Makes sense to me. Mike: Ive never said that every single thing that wierwille ever said is wrong. There's a lot of things he had right. It's just that the things that are wrong are both subtle and grevious. Anywho.
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OldSkool
You see, Mike, raf intervened because he is a moderator and he was trying to get us back on topic and unfortunately, we (myself included) have a habit of letting you comletely derail a thread when you have been proven in error. That he agrees with your position in part has more to do with his objectivity and likely from his career in journalism. He remained professional and got the topic back on track and put his own points of view out there for discussion in a logical, respectful manner..and lo and behold! He was treated with love and respect in-turn. He didn't come along talking down to an audience that he feels are inferior to his own points of view. I mention that because thats how you come off most times and then you seemingly get upset when one of us won't take it any longer. Its a bullying tactic used by the way international. Jack Clergy talks down to Joe Believer in his branch repeatedly and in a disrespectful manner. Eventually, Joe Believer stands up for himself and gets in Jack Clergy's face about it. Then Jack Clergy goes on about how Joe Believer attacked him and has a hard heart and doesn't love God and all that bullshonta Ive seen played out so many times....and here you are doing the same crap.
I wouldnt brag about Raf's intervention though you see it as a life preserver of sorts...
Thats not something to be proud of....well, unless your goal is to derail topics...but you would never do that..
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OldSkool
Im quoting this as a continuation of my above post with the following addition:
Judgemental much? When did you become the searcher of hearts? Does God stand there like he supposedly did with VPW and indicate to you which of us has a black heart and which of us doesnt? No!
What does happen is once we disagree with you and you can't prove your point of view, which is often, you resort to name calling and judgemental insults. Im used to it, so go ahead and show your true colors. That sort of behaviour is rampant in the way international. Show the world how you guys really act behind closed doors.
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T-Bone
Sorry to be a pill in this discussion - just trying to make sense out of your response - you say there’s no need to rewrite stuff because it speaks for itself - then you added more stuff, what needs to be read by all. How is this a discussion - when folks have questions about the first batch of stuff?
This feels more like being in a classroom with an incompetent teacher who gets impatient with students who have questions about the lesson.
I don’t think it’s fair when someone mischaracterizes confusion as having a rotten heart seething with hatred who can’t or won’t read a post. It makes me wonder what is the point of a discussion if clarifying what one says is irrelevant.
I wish you would understand how disappointing and frustrating it is to someone who does try to follow your train of thought and wants some clarification only to be condemned for paying attention and asking questions.
I get the feeling you’re trying to hide something. For example - Take this long post of yours I quoted. Your point is not revealed until the very end - it was all just an infomercial for wierwille / PFAL / the 1942 promise. You should pay attention to the honest feedback from your audience if you’re truly interested in running an idea up the flagpole. You KNOW FOR A FACT folks generally balk at the premise of wierwille / PFAL / the 1942 promise being unassailable truth.
I was not playing gotcha earlier when I pointed out the contradictory nature of your post . I was giving you honest feedback - and if you really wanted to know what I was interested in - you would have realized I PREFER the personal freedom represented in wierwille’s statement rather than being bullied with fear of the devil in your statement…if you wouldn’t let yourself get so worked up over innocent questions we might actually find some common ground.
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OldSkool
Her's proof mike doesnt actually read what we post, except in a very selective manner. Mike: None of the scriptures in that list are in blue, but my comments are in blue. Had you actually read any of it you would know that but yet you accuse others of not reading your posts...ya..right...
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OldSkool
PFAL>?< (-:
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Bolshevik
If Jesus is not absent, why direct people into The Way International?
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OldSkool
And I think you hit the nail on the head. Christ is absent to the way international and they feel like they stand in some imaginary gap for people.
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Bolshevik
Maybe.
I'm curious about the relationship people have with Christ. Wouldn't he warn them away from Fellowship in the first place?
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Mike
11. Stop long detailed personal attacks, that require tons of homework to read, defend, and show how stupidly inaccurate they are.
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Charity
I think people who have a relationship with Christ - the ones who know him and not just about him - would have no interest in staying long or at all if they were approached by someone in twi. Since they would already be experiencing Christ's love, they wouldn't be so susceptible to all the "love bombing." And if they were in the habit of checking with Christ before making decisions, I doubt very much that Christ would give them the go ahead to hang out with this group. So they were the safe ones.
That leaves people who either don't know Christ at all or if they do, didn't have Christ dwelling in their hearts in which case I think it would be difficult for him to warn them away from twi. Instead, they could easily be attracted to what twi offered and once hooked, remain for a long time. I was one of those people. The off-putting part was that I did think God had led me to twi because I was messed up and was seeking His help. But then again, because of my Catholic upbringing, all I knew about God was how guilty I felt around Him all the time. That's where the love bombing and twi's definition of standing righteous before God sucked me in big time.
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OldSkool
Disagreement is not a personal attack. You dont get to preach down to people around here...nobody I know of is on that mess.
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Mike
Thank you for such a light filled post, compared to the riff-raff who only want to talk about me.
I will read your post again and the link as well.
I know that Jesus STRONGLY DESIRED to eat that last Passover meal with his apostles. The word used for his strong desire is usually translated "lust."
But I also know he was content to WAIT on things as God guided him. Look at how he told Mary to not touch him till all was fulfilled.
On the day of the Ascension I know the apostles yearned to see him again personally.
I am real happy to wait on the personal stuff. We will have all eternity for us ALL to make Starbucks Dates with him.
I am real happy (listening OldSkool) to see all those "peeks" or short visits or semi-personal visits, or what ever God wants to call those blue scriptures. I am very happy for them all. I would love to have him visit me; I could use some clarity of my mission(s).
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So_crates
According to your beliefs, your believing is such that you view any disagreement or questioning as a personal attack.
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OldSkool
You would have to denounce wierwille as your lord.
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Mike
Yes, that part of Jesus knocking is future. He is willing to wait on the personal visits. The Christ in us relationship is not trivial; it is superior to the personal part.
I loved your link; easy to read aroung the trinity part.
Did you see the blue quotes I posted from OMSW. In one Jesus is depicted as pretty busy right now with extreme needs in the body. Please check out what VPW said on this topic in 1985, when no one was listening to him.
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