Not quite sure where I ever said the words "absent in his authority," because I did not.
And I never said the "absent Christ" is a term you will find in scripture. Neither is "second coming" or "return." The Biblical word to describe what happens in the future is "presence," and it's spoken of as a future event. Presence as a future hope implies absent as a current reality.
In any event.
Page 70, on Feb 2.
"We all agree that Christ is, in some way, absent.
In what ways? Well, physical presence, but it would be silly to think that is all. He is also absent in his authority. If you and I have a dispute in that we think he means, we cannot go to him to resolve the dispute. So how do we resolve it? By spirit? Sure, except my spirit tells me I'm right and your spirit tells you that you're right, so how is the third person, who is neither you nor I, able to ascertain who is correctly interpreting the will of God in Christ?
Easy. The Word takes the place of the absent Christ.
Up to heaven. Down from heaven. In the heavenlies. I think a full exploration of first century cosmology (which is to say, what people believed about the planet and the sky in first century Palestine) would be a fascinating thread. I think I'll do some research and post some thoughts in the Questioning Faith subforum. It's definitely off topic here (speaking as a poster, not a mod).
Heliocentric models have been dominant for the past four centries or so, dominant meaning accepted by the majority. Before that geocentric models of one variation or another ruled the day, with the common belief that the sun orbited the earth, etc.
Heliocentric models have been dominant for the past four centries or so, dominant meaning accepted by the majority. Before that geocentric models of one variation or another ruled the day, with the common belief that the sun orbited the earth, etc.
There may be psychological or emotion associations with the cosmology . . . the Bible is not a science book . . . This would be a projection of the collective psyche of a specific people, trying to understand their inner universe, as opposed to the physical one.
There may be psychological or emotion associations with the cosmology . . . the Bible is not a science book . . . This would be a projection of the collective psyche of a specific people, trying to understand their inner universe, as opposed to the physical one.
I get where you are coming from. But to distinguish psychological or emotional associations with their cosmology we still have to understand how they saw the universe.
In Genesis, Heavens has to do with water, and the people could only describe with what they saw with their eyes. And they didn't have light pollution and iphones distracting them.
However, what is written is poetry, and that structure of this poetic writing might lead one to conclude different ideas if taken literally.
A cross, and horizontal beam and vertical beam. We are and upright being. We walk on two legs. That is unique. Horizontal beams could represent the earth, vertical is getting our inner being aligned. The beams cross near our heart. There's a lot in this symbol. An "UP" would be in the vertical beam.
In Genesis, Heavens has to do with water, and the people could only describe with what they saw with their eyes. And they didn't have light pollution and iphones distracting them.
However, what is written is poetry, and that structure of this poetic writing might lead one to conclude different ideas if taken literally.
No doubt. That's one of the main points of fail with fundamentalism. Whereas, the Bible is an eastern book it's loaded with their idioms, figures of speech, etc. Not to mention they thought pictorially and relied heavily on symbols, which causes a culture clash of sorts to the westen mind trying to understand an eastern book.
No doubt. That's one of the main points of fail with fundamentalism. Whereas, the Bible is an eastern book it's loaded with their idioms, figures of speech, etc. Not to mention they thought pictorially and relied heavily on symbols, which causes a culture clash of sorts to the westen mind trying to understand an eastern book.
Sure. But what we all have in common, east and west, today and 4000 years ago, is the human brain.
Flood stories, for example come up across the globe. Is this because their was a global flood? Retellings of the same story? . . . . Or that we all have similar minds that symbolize our psyche in similar ways. . . . When something is true . . it should true for everyone, everywhere
I get where you are coming from. But to distinguish psychological or emotional associations with their cosmology we still have to understand how they saw the universe.
Not quite sure where I ever said the words "absent in his authority," because I did not.
And I never said the "absent Christ" is a term you will find in scripture. Neither is "second coming" or "return." The Biblical word to describe what happens in the future is "presence," and it's spoken of as a future event. Presence as a future hope implies absent as a current reality.
In any event.
You are right about “return” and “second coming” not being in scripture although Heb 9:28 comes close when it says “[Christ] will appear a second time."
The reason I asked for a Bible verse for the “absent Christ” is because of the context of my post.It’s on page 77.I had listed the ways in which you talked about the Bible in your recent posts, so at the end I asked, within that context, if this particular phrase was in the Bible.I’ll have to learn how to list posts one under each other and then write a reply to them.
I should have included your post about authority in there as well.
"The Word takes the place of the absent Christ" is the only way to resolve disagreements about the will of God.
Isn't it?
No, it isnt. Im really glad you got me thinking about all of this. Cool stuff.
Option 1 is as you say, and going to scripture would be the only Christian method to determine what to do because Christ is absent.
Option 2 is where a dispute between whichever parties over whatever disagreement decide out of love to goto the Lord in prayer and for him to make plain which solution is just in said dispute. Then out of love the parties can then wait and/or work together in faith that Christ leads them. Now, whether they find an agreeable answer in scripture, at Chruch, from a friend, or from the Lord himself they eventually reach an accord. Option two illustrates relational faith.
Exposing your gobbledygook, delusions and lies is in order over this.
Mike , you run up the flagpole your fantasy of a pathological liar, a cheating, thieving , sociopathic, mean and abusive sexual predator like it’s no worse than anyone else when they’re out of fellowship with the weak and sin-tolerant god that wierwille promoted.
the god that wierwille and you promote is indeed a fantasy of a sociopath’s creative imagination who - like the devotee cannot distinguish between what’s right and wrong, between truth and lies.
The way that wierwille presented himself through plagiarism and sincerity many thought he was the real deal and not a faker. Many thought their lives were changed for the better because that was the group hype . Narrow minded people feel their lives are better because they’re right and all others are wrong.
wierwille had a charismatic personality - many folks were attracted to his influence NOT because they thought he was a holy man - but because he made himself out to be a maverick - this appealed to the counterculture movement in its day. He went against mainstream Christianity and disparaged academia, cognitive skills and worldly logic. He was not your typical religious leader.
he turned the straight and narrow path of Christianity into something self-referential “as long as you love God & neighbor you can do as you full well please” . - as wierwille would often brag “anything done in the love of God is okay”. what a handy rule of thumb - if YOU THINK you’re doing something out of the love of God it’s okay. Plagiarizing the works of others so you can offer your followers a new and improved version of their work.
A sociopath will always have the advantage over folks with a conscience. Why push yourself to develop your research skills and original ideas when you can take the shortcut and plagiarize from others.
To focus on wierwille’s “successes” makes me wonder what is the definition of success. Do sociopaths congratulate each other over getting away with unconscionable acts?
Is Mike deluded or deranged for being so faithful and loyal to defend a sociopath? Do ‘great’ sociopaths think alike?
8 hours ago, Mike said:
Come on now! You were hoping I'd entangle my self in T-Bones web above, even though I've handled those points lots of times in the past 20 years. Maybe I should get myself edjumicated on the Advanced Search engine here and retrieve my old answers?
No, I want to go in different directions.
But HERE in this thread I have some news. I found the old Way Mag article "What is Jesus Christ Doing Up There?" and will scan it in soon for discussion.
That will mean another bump-back on reading Undertow, but that is a stable iron in the fire. I want to see the story about the Research Dept, because I had a number of interactions with that department around the same years Charlene was in it.
Another project I am considering is a Doctrinal thread about God limiting Himself. Does He have a budget? I've brought this up a few times with almost zero detail. However, I have an old folder going back to the late 70s on it that I have been throwing verses into every now and then.
From a quick online search: To expose is to make something visible by uncovering it – for example "at low tide the sands are exposed"; similar words : unravel, reveal, uncover, lay bare, leave unprotected, reveal the true, objectionable nature of (someone or something) as in "he has been exposed as a liar and a traitor"
Mike’s response is interesting. He views my post as another gotcha game – he said,
Maybe I should get myself edjumicated on the Advanced Search engine here and retrieve my old answers?
No, I want to go in different directions.
end of quoting Mike
~ ~ ~ ~
From a quick online search: To entangle is to cause to become twisted together with or caught in - "fish attempt to swim through the mesh and become entangled"; SIMILAR words: intertwine, entwine, tangle, intertwist, twist, ravel, snarl, involve (someone) in difficulties or complicated circumstances from which it is difficult to escape - "the case of murder in which she had found herself so painfully entangled"
In Mike’s response there is a denial of defending wierwille and an attempt to redirect the conversation.
If this were in a court of law and Mike has been charged with defending to the hilt wierwille’s sociopathic behavior – what Mike does is avoid the courtroom altogether for fear of getting caught in his own gobbledygook, delusions and lies.
Basically he would be entangling himself in his own web of deceit.
And just for the record – Mike has never “handled those points lotsof times in the past 20 years”to the satisfaction of anyone but his own imagination.
Ahhh...I see what's wrong here...YOUre expected to thank the for making the class available...or something or nother...
Right. I was frequently told, "You should be thankful to Doctor Wierwille for teaching you tha werd." It's a form of gaslighting. It's a wicked thing to say.
But it was only important to THEM that I take "the class." I never wanted to take it. I always politely declined and changed the subject. (I was already used to deflecting the pressure from my aunt to join "the business.")
IIRC they thought they would receive extra "heavenly rewards" for everyone they signed up. I thought: Now, that's a dandy.
"kuala lumpur mogadishu carne asada."
Interpretation: I'm still waiting for that "thank you."
I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify.
Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure.
Focus on his new man nature and he was a success.
When was wierwille "in fellowship?"
When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?
For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?"
Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982?
Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention.
I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify.
Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure.
Focus on his new man nature and he was a success.
What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh.
He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe).
YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles.
The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on?
Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man.
For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?"
Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982?
Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention.
Peace.
On top of the time vp actually spent on doing all of the above is the time he spent thinking about them before, during and after - his persistent cravings and lustful desires, his devious and cunning planning, his sick anticipation, his self-proclaimed conquests, etc. Someone who commits so many abhorrent acts for so long without repentance has spent a huge amount of his mental energy dwelling in darkness. As a narcissist, his need to be the center of attraction and to feel superior had to be forefront in his mind. It's hard to think that his new man ever saw the light of day.
Here is the first installment on that article. It required a ton of editing, getting it exact. I'll get the next posted soon. This is from Oct/Nov 1978.
“There is no such thing as a free lunch!” That was the conclusion of a group of economists when asked to express the basis of economic theory in one sentence. The rescuing of humankind from the state of death brought on by Adam’s sin is, metaphorically, a banquet prepared by the most talented Chef, served in the most elegant of dining salons by the most attentive of servants. Its cost is correspondingly superlative, yet the bill we receive includes all gratuities and is marked “Paid in Full” by the work of Jesus Christ.
To pay for this banquet, God gave His most valuable asset — His only begotten son. The promise of this sacrifice gave hope to the Old Testament believers and allowed them to taste of the hors d’ouevres and appetizers of God's banquet. In the menu, written by the prophets, they could read of the courses to come. These courses were to be brought by the coming of the Messiah — first in suffering, then in glory.
The banquet was progressing as expected — the main courses being prepared by the death and resurrection of Christ, “our passover,” when, to the surprise of all the diners, the Chef produced His piece de resistance — the great mystery. Not mentioned on the menu, it was nourishment of a different sort, heretofore untasted, never before served on any table. It is this course that you and I partake of today — a completely new food made available by the ascension and exalted position of our advocate and mediator, Jesus Christ.
Have you ever wondered, “What does Jesus Christ do up there at God’s right hand?” It is easy enough to see what he did on earth. We can read the gospel accounts of Christ healing the sick, raising the dead, teaching God’s Word, proclaiming the Kingdom of God, and many other feats, all of which were carrying out the will of God here on earth as only the Son of God could. Since he is ascended, he can no longer do those things, yet God would not raise him into the heavenlies to demote him. What he is doing now must be of greater importance and significance than what he did on earth, if that is imaginable. It is, if we use God’s Word to enlighten our imaginations with accurate “Word pictures.”
I Timothy 2:5:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
He Is Our Mediator.
This is a very enlightening verse. First of all it tells us that Christ Jesus is a man and that God is one God (not three). Jesus Christ could not, therefore, be God. A mediator is a “go-between,” one who stands in the middle and communicates or deals with each party. More technically, a mediator is “one who mediates for peace and unites parties at variance.” The Greek word for mediator, mesites, does not occur in profane Greek since they had no higher word than that meaning arbitrator. In the Septuagint, this word mesites occurs only in Job 9:33 where it is translated “daysman.” This translation sheds tremendous light on the role of the ascended Christ, in view of the Eastern culture of the daysman.
A daysman in Eastern culture was literally a “great soul” in a town or village. He was unappointed and he was not elected but he was a man of great wisdom, well versed in the Scriptures, a man who rose up to reconcile the wrong-doer to the wronged. Jesus Christ acts to reconcile mankind back to God. He is our mediator, our daysman.
The daysman handles each situation personally, tenderly, unhurriedly. He is usually a wealthy man, well known and respected in his village. When people have a problem and want more than a legal settlement, both parties come to his door. He invites them in, gives them something to eat and waits until they bring up the situation. Then, patiently, he will hear each side of the story, yet he never makes a judgment. From his knowledge of the Scriptures he lovingly explains to the wrongdoer why he is wrong and why he needs forgiveness. Then he patiently explains to the wronged why he should be forgiving. This is tremendously revealing when applied to Jesus Christ, as he can personally relate to every situation that would cause a believer to break fellowship with God. Christ was tempted in all points, confronted with every opportunity not to obey God, not to believe God in every specific area, yet he did not sin (Hebrews 4:15). God has never been tempted with the sin of disobeying Himself. Therefore, to speak in limited, human terms, we could say He has not “been through it” like Jesus Christ has. That is why calling Jesus Christ a daysman, a mediator, between sinful man and God is so meaningful.
This relationship of daysman emphasizes the tenderness, the concern and the love involved between God, Jesus Christ and men. The result is total forgiveness and complete reconciliation beyond the degree that could be accomplished by Jesus Christ while on earth. It takes the greatness of his position at God’s right hand to be our daysman.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Bolshevik
It was a pile of olives.
He died on a skull. That's kinda neat.
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OldSkool
Ahhh...I see what's wrong here...YOUre expected to thank the for making the class available...or something or nother...
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Charity
Page 70, on Feb 2.
"We all agree that Christ is, in some way, absent.
In what ways? Well, physical presence, but it would be silly to think that is all. He is also absent in his authority. If you and I have a dispute in that we think he means, we cannot go to him to resolve the dispute. So how do we resolve it? By spirit? Sure, except my spirit tells me I'm right and your spirit tells you that you're right, so how is the third person, who is neither you nor I, able to ascertain who is correctly interpreting the will of God in Christ?
Easy. The Word takes the place of the absent Christ.
(I hope I haven't misread anything.)
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OldSkool
Heliocentric models have been dominant for the past four centries or so, dominant meaning accepted by the majority. Before that geocentric models of one variation or another ruled the day, with the common belief that the sun orbited the earth, etc.
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Bolshevik
There may be psychological or emotion associations with the cosmology . . . the Bible is not a science book . . . This would be a projection of the collective psyche of a specific people, trying to understand their inner universe, as opposed to the physical one.
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OldSkool
I get where you are coming from. But to distinguish psychological or emotional associations with their cosmology we still have to understand how they saw the universe.
https://aleteia.org/2016/07/07/when-the-earth-was-flat-a-map-of-the-universe-according-to-the-old-testament/
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Bolshevik
In Genesis, Heavens has to do with water, and the people could only describe with what they saw with their eyes. And they didn't have light pollution and iphones distracting them.
However, what is written is poetry, and that structure of this poetic writing might lead one to conclude different ideas if taken literally.
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Bolshevik
Thinking of up,
TWI didn't like the crucifix.
A cross, and horizontal beam and vertical beam. We are and upright being. We walk on two legs. That is unique. Horizontal beams could represent the earth, vertical is getting our inner being aligned. The beams cross near our heart. There's a lot in this symbol. An "UP" would be in the vertical beam.
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Bolshevik
This might be the wrong video but I think it is the right author.
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OldSkool
No doubt. That's one of the main points of fail with fundamentalism. Whereas, the Bible is an eastern book it's loaded with their idioms, figures of speech, etc. Not to mention they thought pictorially and relied heavily on symbols, which causes a culture clash of sorts to the westen mind trying to understand an eastern book.
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Bolshevik
Sure. But what we all have in common, east and west, today and 4000 years ago, is the human brain.
Flood stories, for example come up across the globe. Is this because their was a global flood? Retellings of the same story? . . . . Or that we all have similar minds that symbolize our psyche in similar ways. . . . When something is true . . it should true for everyone, everywhere
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cman
That looks more like the mind.
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Charity
You are right about “return” and “second coming” not being in scripture although Heb 9:28 comes close when it says “[Christ] will appear a second time."
The reason I asked for a Bible verse for the “absent Christ” is because of the context of my post. It’s on page 77. I had listed the ways in which you talked about the Bible in your recent posts, so at the end I asked, within that context, if this particular phrase was in the Bible. I’ll have to learn how to list posts one under each other and then write a reply to them.
I should have included your post about authority in there as well.
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OldSkool
No, it isnt. Im really glad you got me thinking about all of this. Cool stuff.
Option 1 is as you say, and going to scripture would be the only Christian method to determine what to do because Christ is absent.
Option 2 is where a dispute between whichever parties over whatever disagreement decide out of love to goto the Lord in prayer and for him to make plain which solution is just in said dispute. Then out of love the parties can then wait and/or work together in faith that Christ leads them. Now, whether they find an agreeable answer in scripture, at Chruch, from a friend, or from the Lord himself they eventually reach an accord. Option two illustrates relational faith.
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T-Bone
Attention all Grease Spotters
:
I thought the intention behind my post ( here ) was expressed in crystal clarity: exposing Mike’s gobbledygook, delusions and lies in one of his posts ( here )
~ ~ ~ ~
From a quick online search: To expose is to make something visible by uncovering it – for example "at low tide the sands are exposed"; similar words : unravel, reveal, uncover, lay bare, leave unprotected, reveal the true, objectionable nature of (someone or something) as in "he has been exposed as a liar and a traitor"
Mike’s response is interesting. He views my post as another gotcha game – he said,
You were hoping I'd entangle my self in T-Bones web above, even though I've handled those points lots of times in the past 20 years.
Maybe I should get myself edjumicated on the Advanced Search engine here and retrieve my old answers?
No, I want to go in different directions.
end of quoting Mike
~ ~ ~ ~
From a quick online search: To entangle is to cause to become twisted together with or caught in - "fish attempt to swim through the mesh and become entangled"; SIMILAR words: intertwine, entwine, tangle, intertwist, twist, ravel, snarl, involve (someone) in difficulties or complicated circumstances from which it is difficult to escape - "the case of murder in which she had found herself so painfully entangled"
In Mike’s response there is a denial of defending wierwille and an attempt to redirect the conversation.
If this were in a court of law and Mike has been charged with defending to the hilt wierwille’s sociopathic behavior – what Mike does is avoid the courtroom altogether for fear of getting caught in his own gobbledygook, delusions and lies.
Basically he would be entangling himself in his own web of deceit.
And just for the record – Mike has never “handled those points lots of times in the past 20 years” to the satisfaction of anyone but his own imagination.
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OldSkool
uhh....he's going through his files....
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Nathan_Jr
Right. I was frequently told, "You should be thankful to Doctor Wierwille for teaching you tha werd." It's a form of gaslighting. It's a wicked thing to say.
But it was only important to THEM that I take "the class." I never wanted to take it. I always politely declined and changed the subject. (I was already used to deflecting the pressure from my aunt to join "the business.")
IIRC they thought they would receive extra "heavenly rewards" for everyone they signed up. I thought: Now, that's a dandy.
"kuala lumpur mogadishu carne asada."
Interpretation: I'm still waiting for that "thank you."
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waysider
Focus on his mobster ways and ties to the underworld and Al Capone was a failure.
Focus on the 2,200 people per day who were served by his soup kitchen and he was a success.
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OldSkool
This is quotable. the way international really does teach people to have selective vision...I know I had a healthy dose.
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skyrider
When was wierwille "in fellowship?"
When was wierwille's "new man nature" evident?
For instance, was wierwille in fellowship with God when he shut down his LIVE TEACHINGS at pfal '77 and had his desk brought out so that he could sit and read scripture verses while he sipped his Drambuie? Was wierwille's new man nature in play when he tweaked Rev. Oral Robert's teaching on "The Fourth Man" and pawned it off as "The Red Thread?"
Even in his "finest moments"...... (cough, cough) the charlatan wierwille was play-acting the part of a spiritual man of God. He was a serial plagiarist who had rarily a thought, an idea, or a teaching that he could absolutely call his own. He fooled LOTS of people along the way, but did you ever notice that it was those closest to him.....valets, bodyguards, pilots, research men, etc....abandoned him even BEFORE he retired in 1982?
Wierwille certainly didn't allow "on-again / off-again" men around him. He demanded commitment, focus and even near perfection. How often did some of us corps see wierwille berate a corps person for the simplest of mistakes? Wierwille was a chain-smoking drunkard, an unforgiving taskmaster, a bully to even the weakest corps member, a striker when irritated, a life-long misogynist and sexual predator. Anyone who CONTINUES TO THIS DAY to give wierwille a pass is a devoted sycophant and possibly a hidden narcissist himself to garner self-referential attention.
Peace.
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skyrider
What wierwille REALLY WAS...... was a man of the flesh.
He was a deceiver, a con man... play-acting the role of "a spiritual man." In fact, since his narcissism knew no bounds.... wierwille KEPT INCREASING his "greatness." In his skinny-tie filming of the 1967 pfal class, wierwille dubbed himself as "The Teacher." Just write The Teacher, Box 328, New Knoxville, Ohio 45871. By the mid-70s, his inner circle and enablers kept referring to him as "The Man of God" (a title that vpw fully encouraged and embraced). Then, by the early 80's, he laid claim to the title "Our Father in the Word" (of which, I guess teaching pfal = fathering people in 'the Word'). And lastly, to transcend all other labels, Chris Geer pegged the summit of wierwille's legacy as "A Patriarch" ( the father and ruler of a family or tribe).
YET, wierwille's life was befitting to NONE of those titles.
The Book of Timothy chapter 3 specifically outlines for us the office of a bishop, an overseer. What was wierwille's report card on THIS LIST OF REQUIREMENTS? Dismal to non-existent. He was not prepared in all points [blameless], nor vigilant, nor sober of sound thinking, not patient, but a striker, a brawler and contentious. Wierwille was puffed up with pride as he looked down his nose at others. He fell into reproach and snares of the devil. Need I go on?
Many were deceived by his stage-presence. And, wierwille was well-aware of this deception.... that's why he rarely let his mask slip. But when it did slip, one caught a glimpse of a vindictive, mean man.
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Charity
On top of the time vp actually spent on doing all of the above is the time he spent thinking about them before, during and after - his persistent cravings and lustful desires, his devious and cunning planning, his sick anticipation, his self-proclaimed conquests, etc. Someone who commits so many abhorrent acts for so long without repentance has spent a huge amount of his mental energy dwelling in darkness. As a narcissist, his need to be the center of attraction and to feel superior had to be forefront in his mind. It's hard to think that his new man ever saw the light of day.
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Mike
Here is the first installment on that article. It required a ton of editing, getting it exact. I'll get the next posted soon. This is from Oct/Nov 1978.
“There is no such thing as a free lunch!” That was the conclusion of a group of economists when asked to express the basis of economic theory in one sentence. The rescuing of humankind from the state of death brought on by Adam’s sin is, metaphorically, a banquet prepared by the most talented Chef, served in the most elegant of dining salons by the most attentive of servants. Its cost is correspondingly superlative, yet the bill we receive includes all gratuities and is marked “Paid in Full” by the work of Jesus Christ.
To pay for this banquet, God gave His most valuable asset — His only begotten son. The promise of this sacrifice gave hope to the Old Testament believers and allowed them to taste of the hors d’ouevres and appetizers of God's banquet. In the menu, written by the prophets, they could read of the courses to come. These courses were to be brought by the coming of the Messiah — first in suffering, then in glory.
The banquet was progressing as expected — the main courses being prepared by the death and resurrection of Christ, “our passover,” when, to the surprise of all the diners, the Chef produced His piece de resistance — the great mystery. Not mentioned on the menu, it was nourishment of a different sort, heretofore untasted, never before served on any table. It is this course that you and I partake of today — a completely new food made available by the ascension and exalted position of our advocate and mediator, Jesus Christ.
Have you ever wondered, “What does Jesus Christ do up there at God’s right hand?” It is easy enough to see what he did on earth. We can read the gospel accounts of Christ healing the sick, raising the dead, teaching God’s Word, proclaiming the Kingdom of God, and many other feats, all of which were carrying out the will of God here on earth as only the Son of God could. Since he is ascended, he can no longer do those things, yet God would not raise him into the heavenlies to demote him. What he is doing now must be of greater importance and significance than what he did on earth, if that is imaginable. It is, if we use God’s Word to enlighten our imaginations with accurate “Word pictures.”
I Timothy 2:5:
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
He Is Our Mediator.
This is a very enlightening verse. First of all it tells us that Christ Jesus is a man and that God is one God (not three). Jesus Christ could not, therefore, be God. A mediator is a “go-between,” one who stands in the middle and communicates or deals with each party. More technically, a mediator is “one who mediates for peace and unites parties at variance.” The Greek word for mediator, mesites, does not occur in profane Greek since they had no higher word than that meaning arbitrator. In the Septuagint, this word mesites occurs only in Job 9:33 where it is translated “daysman.” This translation sheds tremendous light on the role of the ascended Christ, in view of the Eastern culture of the daysman.
A daysman in Eastern culture was literally a “great soul” in a town or village. He was unappointed and he was not elected but he was a man of great wisdom, well versed in the Scriptures, a man who rose up to reconcile the wrong-doer to the wronged. Jesus Christ acts to reconcile mankind back to God. He is our mediator, our daysman.
The daysman handles each situation personally, tenderly, unhurriedly. He is usually a wealthy man, well known and respected in his village. When people have a problem and want more than a legal settlement, both parties come to his door. He invites them in, gives them something to eat and waits until they bring up the situation. Then, patiently, he will hear each side of the story, yet he never makes a judgment. From his knowledge of the Scriptures he lovingly explains to the wrongdoer why he is wrong and why he needs forgiveness. Then he patiently explains to the wronged why he should be forgiving. This is tremendously revealing when applied to Jesus Christ, as he can personally relate to every situation that would cause a believer to break fellowship with God. Christ was tempted in all points, confronted with every opportunity not to obey God, not to believe God in every specific area, yet he did not sin (Hebrews 4:15). God has never been tempted with the sin of disobeying Himself. Therefore, to speak in limited, human terms, we could say He has not “been through it” like Jesus Christ has. That is why calling Jesus Christ a daysman, a mediator, between sinful man and God is so meaningful.
This relationship of daysman emphasizes the tenderness, the concern and the love involved between God, Jesus Christ and men. The result is total forgiveness and complete reconciliation beyond the degree that could be accomplished by Jesus Christ while on earth. It takes the greatness of his position at God’s right hand to be our daysman.
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Mike
Oh, the author was John Seiffer, 5th Corps
The title is "What Is Jesus Christ Doing Up There?"
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