I make many priority decisions each day. MUCH of what I want to do does not get done, but I just do my best.
You folks seem to think that my highest priority is getting your approval for my words, after I must prove them to you. I think you miss being a cult leader and want to tell me what my priorities are. Give it up. I will wash windows and pay attention to the topics that I think are most important and deserving of my time. Quit wining that I am not submitting to your Inquisitions. Grow up and pay attention to the issues.
I would think your highest priority would be to get God's people delivered. That's God's highest priority, is it not?
And is arguing about whether or not Christ is absent or whether the law of believing works for sinners getting God's people delivered?
Why haven't you progressed in 20 years? Because you're more concerned with being right than you are with presenting Gods message as is.
Claiming believing works better for believers is just one example of you making something up to be right.
Mike, you used a Firesign Theatre skit here when you referenced Hemlock Stone. Are you aware that a real Hemlock Stone exists and that it's not just a simple twisting of the name Sherlock Holmes for humorous effect? Well, maybe you are and maybe you aren't. Are you comparing GSC posters to a historic landmark or to a fictional character of Firesign Theatre design?
Yeah, after I posted with "Hemlock Sones" in the text, I wondered how many people would get it, so I googled it. I have never been a good googler. I was surprised that I could not find any Firesign references at all, just that tourist Stone in England. That's when I posted the album cover to Giant Rat, to clue the non-Firesign people in.
I always try my best to be honest in these discussions.
I do not try at all to conform to the initial postulates and attitudes that are adopted here as the basis for debate. I have a different set of ground rules for how I approach an apparent error in the PFAL collaterals. I simply refuse to start the debate at the point and with the rules and assumptions that you prefer.
You start every debate here with a certain bias. I have a very opposite bias. We come up with differing results. Then we bet our lives on what we come up with.
29 minutes ago, Mike said:
What's that "therefore" there for?
I don't buy it at all.
Like I said, you're more interested in being right than transmitting any message from God.
The Ever UnPFLAPable Completely and Totally Anti-NumbSkullable Companion to Grease Spot Café Threads
Under the adjunct entry for The Absent Christ? thread:
Absenteeism = the practice of regularly staying away from the point without good reason; absenteeism has been viewed as an indicator of poor individual performance, as well as a breach of an implicit contract among all Grease Spotters involved in the discussion.
Absentia = the term in absentia is an adverb or adjective that means in absence - used in legal systems when referring to someone being absent from defending their own case. May be used as in the form of disfigured speech – “I’m there in spirit but not in truth” – meaning one is online trolling the discussion but frequently attempts to undermine the conversation.
Absolutely = A cognitive distortion; Often pronounced in a thick punch-drunk-Rocky-Balboa-speech pattern to convey the sentiment “When it comes to PFAL, I have no friends”; Absolute thinking is an unusual difficulty or inability to acknowledge and/or cope with life challenges and/or criticism of wierwille or PFAL; It can be a symptom of serious mental or physical illness such as depression anxiety, or even diseases such as Parkinson's, or simply that the absolute thinker has a hidden agenda.
Absolved = Free from blame, guilt, or responsibility – something every cult-follower desire for themselves as well as the cult-leader; the jury is still out on exactly why some fans of wierwille want this – the attraction may be that one simply finds a religion that allows you to do whatever the hell you want irresistible.
Absinthe = Absinthe is a Kool-Aid infused ‘spirit’ derived from several plagiarized works, eclectic ideologies, delusions of grandeur and includes select pages from How to Win Friends and Influence People; its greenish-black color resembles the PFAL signup card and is flavored with wormwood a star that fell from the sky and polluted the fountain of living waters. It is unknown how many cult-followers will suffer as a result.
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I goto prepare a place for you.
3 And if I goand prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I goye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I gounto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come againunto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
It's great to read scriptures Mike - thanks for sharing them. They clearly speak of Jesus going away and coming back again. However, these scriptures do not speak about being hidden like you claim Acts 1 does so I think it's a case of comparing apples to oranges.
Besides hidden, here is another way the absent Christ is described in the Bible.
2 Cor 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
How many more ways can we find in the Bible that describe the post-Ascension to pre-Return ministry of Jesus Christ?
Seated at the right hand of God, as opposed to his previous walk on Earth.
Appointing us as his ambassadors. It's kinda silly to have an ambassador if you are present.
SOMETHING happened on the day of the Ascension that changed things about Jesus.
Please describe to me what you think happened to the personal presence of Jesus after that cloud hid him.
Put yourself in the shoes of his apostles watching him. One minute he is with them and the next minute.... [please fill in what happened here].
Mike you didn't respond to what I wrote about the word "hid" being used in comparison to being "taken up or received." Instead you begin again with the being hidden doctrine - "Besides hidden" - and then you moved on to a difference verse (2 Cor 5:16) which speaks for itself.
"Seated at the right hand of God" and "Appointing us as his ambassadors" does not mean Jesus is hidden. I know from scriptures about Jesus before the ascension and I know from scriptures about Jesus after the ascension. You keep talking about his personal presence because it supports twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ.
Mike you didn't respond to what I wrote about the word "hid" being used in comparison to being "taken up or received." Instead you begin again with the being hidden doctrine - "Besides hidden" - and then you moved on to a difference verse (2 Cor 5:16) which speaks for itself.
"Seated at the right hand of God" and "Appointing us as his ambassadors" does not mean Jesus is hidden. I know from scriptures about Jesus before the ascension and I know from scriptures about Jesus after the ascension. You keep talking about his personal presence because it supports twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ.
I don't think anybody here takes Mike seriously. He uses GSC for his own agenda, which by all accounts seems to be to keep posting wierwilles garbage. Personally I only retort to show how shallow and umbilical wierwille really was...second Peter describes wierwille to the letter...eyes full of adultery...
Otherwise, Mike posts pretty much all lack credibility due to Mike's refusal to discuss the material we present. He is either afraid to discuss the material or he only wants to post wierwilles one sided lies....either way his point of view cannot handle direct sunlight.
These matters being presented are akin to questions we may all have encountered when witnessing to someone for the first time all those years ago. How is it possible to be no closer to being able to provide logical answers after having 50 years to ponder them?
He healed no one. His was not a healing ministry. His was a Biblical search again ministry.
There is no reason to believe that story is true. Victor paul wierwille did not establish himself as a man of credibility or integrity. it's as fantastical and bullshonta laden as the 1942 fraud.
He healed no one. His was not a healing ministry. His was a Biblical search again ministry.
There is no reason to believe that story is true. Victor paul wierwille did not establish himself as a man of credibility or integrity. it's as fantastical and bullshonta laden as the 1942 fraud.
I agree. Some notable miracle supposedly performed in a foreign country where nobody can ever verify it. Then I know for a fact they used to blame the victim when the law of believing failed...with a bullshonta line like "they just didn't have the believing"....
It's great to read scriptures Mike - thanks for sharing them. They clearly speak of Jesus going away and coming back again. However, these scriptures do not speak about being hidden like you claim Acts 1 does so I think it's a case of comparing apples to oranges.
"Going away" and "hidden" look VERY similar to me.
Close enough to bet my life on it. Place your bet.
You keep talking about his personal presence because it supports twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ.
Yes, that is the position I arrived at after many years of working the Bible. It is also common sense so clear Raf has agreed with me here. The reason I accepted the absent Christ is NOT because twi taught it, but because it checks out.
YOU, Charity, keep talking about absent being error because it goes against "twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ."
You are biased to avoid whatever twi taught. You are in an exploratory mode where you simply seek whatever goes against twi. I went through that phase over 40 years ago. Let me know how it works for you.
So what you are falsely saying is I have a pro-TWI bias, while in reality you are the one with an anti-TWI bias.
Yes, that is the position I arrived at after many years of working the Bible. It is also common sense so clear Raf has agreed with me here. The reason I accepted the absent Christ is NOT because twi taught it, but because it checks out.
YOU, Charity, keep talking about absent being error because it goes against "twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ."
You are biased to avoid whatever twi taught. You are in an exploratory mode where you simply seek whatever goes against twi. I went through that phase over 40 years ago. Let me know how it works for you.
So what you are falsely saying is I have a pro-TWI bias, while in reality you are the one with an anti-TWI bias.
Okay, you checked it out, you believed it was right so now you come on GSC to teach it just as twi teaches it. So now I'm saying I don't support your belief in it or twi's belief in it. What Raf has to do with any of this is beyond me.
I get suspicious when so-and-so says he’ll bet his life on something, and he wants me to make the same wager. Knowing the character traits of so-and-so, I think he is just trying to blur distinctions and redefine words to his liking. It has nothing to do with substance – and everything to do with derailing a thread...
...and as they say on Shark Tank - "for that reason I'm out".
I’m not a gambling man, and I see Pascal’s Wager as a huckster’s game.
If Jesus is coming back with a copy of the orange book in his hand, and victor paul wierwille is due to receive vast heavenly rewards of mansions, crowns and virgins, then I want none of it. I will never worship a god who exalts victor above the serpent. I would rather be annihilated or burn in hellfire for eternity.
This I confess with my mouth and believe in my heart.
I get suspicious when so-and-so says he’ll bet his life on something, and he wants me to make the same wager. Knowing the character traits of so-and-so, I think he is just trying to blur distinctions and redefine words to his liking. It has nothing to do with substance – and everything to do with derailing a thread...
...and as they say on Shark Tank - "for that reason I'm out".
Yessir. I'm thinking the reason mike doesn't want to discuss anything of substance when he's confronted with an opposing point of view is he wants the lies wierwille taught him to be prevalent here on GSC.
"If heaven doesn't exist, we will have had the best time going."
Well, it hasn't always been what I would call the best, so I think we lost the wager.
My FC would proudly admit that if victor was wrong and was going over the cliff, he would follow him right off the cliff to his peril - that’s how commuted he was to his beleeef in vpw.
I think he wanted me to be impressed. I was. I was impressed with how incredibly stupid such an admission sounded.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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So_crates
I would think your highest priority would be to get God's people delivered. That's God's highest priority, is it not?
And is arguing about whether or not Christ is absent or whether the law of believing works for sinners getting God's people delivered?
Why haven't you progressed in 20 years? Because you're more concerned with being right than you are with presenting Gods message as is.
Claiming believing works better for believers is just one example of you making something up to be right.
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Mike
Yeah, after I posted with "Hemlock Sones" in the text, I wondered how many people would get it, so I googled it. I have never been a good googler. I was surprised that I could not find any Firesign references at all, just that tourist Stone in England. That's when I posted the album cover to Giant Rat, to clue the non-Firesign people in.
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So_crates
Like I said, you're more interested in being right than transmitting any message from God.
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T-Bone
The Ever UnPFLAPable Completely and Totally Anti-NumbSkullable Companion to Grease Spot Café Threads
Under the adjunct entry for The Absent Christ? thread:
Absenteeism = the practice of regularly staying away from the point without good reason; absenteeism has been viewed as an indicator of poor individual performance, as well as a breach of an implicit contract among all Grease Spotters involved in the discussion.
Absentia = the term in absentia is an adverb or adjective that means in absence - used in legal systems when referring to someone being absent from defending their own case. May be used as in the form of disfigured speech – “I’m there in spirit but not in truth” – meaning one is online trolling the discussion but frequently attempts to undermine the conversation.
Absolutely = A cognitive distortion; Often pronounced in a thick punch-drunk-Rocky-Balboa-speech pattern to convey the sentiment “When it comes to PFAL, I have no friends”; Absolute thinking is an unusual difficulty or inability to acknowledge and/or cope with life challenges and/or criticism of wierwille or PFAL; It can be a symptom of serious mental or physical illness such as depression anxiety, or even diseases such as Parkinson's, or simply that the absolute thinker has a hidden agenda.
Absolved = Free from blame, guilt, or responsibility – something every cult-follower desire for themselves as well as the cult-leader; the jury is still out on exactly why some fans of wierwille want this – the attraction may be that one simply finds a religion that allows you to do whatever the hell you want irresistible.
Absinthe = Absinthe is a Kool-Aid infused ‘spirit’ derived from several plagiarized works, eclectic ideologies, delusions of grandeur and includes select pages from How to Win Friends and Influence People; its greenish-black color resembles the PFAL signup card and is flavored with wormwood a star that fell from the sky and polluted the fountain of living waters. It is unknown how many cult-followers will suffer as a result.
Edited by T-Bonetypos were infused then defused!
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OldSkool
Awesome post, and I think this fits the bill. Mike's here to help us come back home...
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Charity
It's great to read scriptures Mike - thanks for sharing them. They clearly speak of Jesus going away and coming back again. However, these scriptures do not speak about being hidden like you claim Acts 1 does so I think it's a case of comparing apples to oranges.
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Charity
Mike you didn't respond to what I wrote about the word "hid" being used in comparison to being "taken up or received." Instead you begin again with the being hidden doctrine - "Besides hidden" - and then you moved on to a difference verse (2 Cor 5:16) which speaks for itself.
"Seated at the right hand of God" and "Appointing us as his ambassadors" does not mean Jesus is hidden. I know from scriptures about Jesus before the ascension and I know from scriptures about Jesus after the ascension. You keep talking about his personal presence because it supports twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ.
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OldSkool
I don't think anybody here takes Mike seriously. He uses GSC for his own agenda, which by all accounts seems to be to keep posting wierwilles garbage. Personally I only retort to show how shallow and umbilical wierwille really was...second Peter describes wierwille to the letter...eyes full of adultery...
Otherwise, Mike posts pretty much all lack credibility due to Mike's refusal to discuss the material we present. He is either afraid to discuss the material or he only wants to post wierwilles one sided lies....either way his point of view cannot handle direct sunlight.
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waysider
These matters being presented are akin to questions we may all have encountered when witnessing to someone for the first time all those years ago. How is it possible to be no closer to being able to provide logical answers after having 50 years to ponder them?
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Nathan_Jr
He healed no one. His was not a healing ministry. His was a Biblical search again ministry.
There is no reason to believe that story is true. Victor paul wierwille did not establish himself as a man of credibility or integrity. it's as fantastical and bullshonta laden as the 1942 fraud.
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OldSkool
I agree. Some notable miracle supposedly performed in a foreign country where nobody can ever verify it. Then I know for a fact they used to blame the victim when the law of believing failed...with a bullshonta line like "they just didn't have the believing"....
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Mike
"Going away" and "hidden" look VERY similar to me.
Close enough to bet my life on it. Place your bet.
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Mike
Yes, that is the position I arrived at after many years of working the Bible. It is also common sense so clear Raf has agreed with me here. The reason I accepted the absent Christ is NOT because twi taught it, but because it checks out.
YOU, Charity, keep talking about absent being error because it goes against "twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ."
You are biased to avoid whatever twi taught. You are in an exploratory mode where you simply seek whatever goes against twi. I went through that phase over 40 years ago. Let me know how it works for you.
So what you are falsely saying is I have a pro-TWI bias, while in reality you are the one with an anti-TWI bias.
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Charity
Case closed then - no further comment from me is necessary.
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Nathan_Jr
Is the Christ ho Logos?
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waysider
Maybe. But, for sure, Santa Claus is ho ho ho Logos.
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Charity
Okay, you checked it out, you believed it was right so now you come on GSC to teach it just as twi teaches it. So now I'm saying I don't support your belief in it or twi's belief in it. What Raf has to do with any of this is beyond me.
Case closed.
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T-Bone
I get suspicious when so-and-so says he’ll bet his life on something, and he wants me to make the same wager. Knowing the character traits of so-and-so, I think he is just trying to blur distinctions and redefine words to his liking. It has nothing to do with substance – and everything to do with derailing a thread...
...and as they say on Shark Tank - "for that reason I'm out".
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Nathan_Jr
Fo sho! That has already been revealed to me. The second time established it.
My question has to do with the word taking the place of the absent Word. It really all goes back to what is the word.
I’ll ask the question again in one of my tongues. If I get the answer twice… well, you know…
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Nathan_Jr
I’m not a gambling man, and I see Pascal’s Wager as a huckster’s game.
If Jesus is coming back with a copy of the orange book in his hand, and victor paul wierwille is due to receive vast heavenly rewards of mansions, crowns and virgins, then I want none of it. I will never worship a god who exalts victor above the serpent. I would rather be annihilated or burn in hellfire for eternity.
This I confess with my mouth and believe in my heart.
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waysider
VPW presented such a wager in PFAL.
"If heaven doesn't exist, we will have had the best time going."
Well, it hasn't always been what I would call the best, so I think we lost the wager.
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OldSkool
Yessir. I'm thinking the reason mike doesn't want to discuss anything of substance when he's confronted with an opposing point of view is he wants the lies wierwille taught him to be prevalent here on GSC.
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So_crates
Says the guy who stops reading posts because they don't match twi's doctrine.
You're being hypocritical don't you think?
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Nathan_Jr
My FC would proudly admit that if victor was wrong and was going over the cliff, he would follow him right off the cliff to his peril - that’s how commuted he was to his beleeef in vpw.
I think he wanted me to be impressed. I was. I was impressed with how incredibly stupid such an admission sounded.
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