It was often used as a pressure tactic to elicit loyalty to TWI.
"You can't leave now. "What will happen to your kids?"
3 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
What exactly were the implications? What would happen to your kids, according to these pseudo-Christian jihadists?
(This is among the most sinister, brutal forms of gaslighting and spiritual abuse. Abject wickedness. Serpentine trash.)
3 hours ago, waysider said:
The implication is that if you abandon TWI, before they reach the age of accountability, they won't be covered by the hedge of protection. Hence, if something bad happens to them, it will be your fault.
2 hours ago, OldSkool said:
Yes. That it's exactly as Waysider says. TWI binds people hardcore from early with fear of leaving the ministry.
2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
Oh, I KNOW it's exactly as Waysider says it is!
Who, after hearing of this, after living this, can still be an apologist for TWI and its inventor, victor paul wierwille? Only the willfully blind and the wicked.
This is vomitous, abject, spiritual depravity. I don't know what born again of serpent seed is, but if anything, it must be this.
Who can still doubt that this is a sinister, evil cult?
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the perpetrators and teachers and defenders of such abuse on THAT day.
1 hour ago, waysider said:
It's a common cult tactic, not used only by The Way.
"Bad things will happen if you leave. You'll be a greasespot in the road by midnight."
If the fear for your own safety isn't enough to get to you, shame is waiting in the wings to make an entrance. Shame in believing your decision to leave may have played a part in tragedy or damnation befalling your loved ones.
So much for The Abundant Life. Add it to The Green Card.
This is one of their most effective control tactics.
I think one of the strongest “gravitational pulls” that kept me in line was a fear of what could happen to me or my family if I left…tripped out or copped out.
I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps. wierwille’s go-to passage for instilling fear in devoted followers was John 13- Jesus predicts his betrayal during an evening meal with the disciples, then “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.” (verse 30). wierwille adapted John’s frequent use of something having double meaning – wierwille elaborated on “it was night” for his own fearmongering - stating unequivocally that the only alternative to the ministry that taught you the rightly divided word was oblivion. You walk out on wierwille/TWI it will be night! spiritual darkness. Really bad things happen under the cover of night.
whenever I thought of my future – I could never imagine leaving TWI. The possibility of tripping out / copping out was not a viable option. Thinking of a scenario like that was almost like entertaining thoughts of suicide, or what catastrophes would befall my wife and kids if I tripped out. My life, my dreams, my identity, my hopes, my family’s safety, and security were all wrapped up in my being loyal to the ministry.
Harmful and controlling cults are really crafty fvckers – they exploit primal fears and leave it up to us to construct our own mental prisons.
The final disposition of all humanity (is everyone everywhere and everywhen saved?) is a good subject for at least 1 thread. Unfortunately, a few posters got cagey talking around the subject (freaking WHY?), and when I made a thread for the subject, they refused to discuss it. Too bad, I think there's a lot to say on the subject.
20 But the fact is, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21 For since by a man death came, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [i]Christ all will be made alive.23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that [j]this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him.28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
========================
It wouldn't be a bad idea to discuss this in a separate thread, probably in Doctrinal. I'd prefer to discuss what the Greek said in those verses rather than any English version, since they all will put their own spin on the subject, intentionally or not.
Whether or not there are "administrations"/"dispensations" in history is a subject for debate, with different posters holding different positions.
On the one hand, I disagree with those who keep blaming Mac Donald for inventing it or Darby for disseminating what Mac Donald invented- I don't think this doctrine can be traced at all to her or significantly to him.
On the other hand, ignoring a question of who said what, my own thinking on Scripture has generally resembled another position on history- a "covenantal" approach. That is, rather than say "now began the Law Administration", I'd say "now God entered into a covenant with Israel with the Mosaic Law." With the "administration" approach, no 2 administrations remain in effect alongside each other. (We can also start drifting into "replacement theology", where Christians supposedly REPLACED Israel, and so on.)
It's my personal opinion that God's Covenant with Israel remains in effect, and God's Covenant with Christians remains in effect. I think Jesus, among others, tried to make a point about that very thing, where one person is promised one thing, and another is promised another, and each received what they were promised, independently of each other.
Once again, this might be a good topic to start in the "Doctrinal" forum. Don't be shocked when you see different posters rather emphatic on their positions.
When paging through the King James Version, in the Old Testament, you may notice that sometimes the word "LORD" is in all caps, and rarely the word "GOD" is in all caps. That's not a stylistic decision. In those cases, the Hebrew word there was "YHWH." For the high-faluting, that's the Tetragrammaton (the 4 letters.) For observant Jews, it's a common practice to refuse to write it or say it aloud out of respect for God Almighty. So, that "YHWH", depending on translation, has also been rendered "Yahweh", and "Jehovah." (Depending on the letters in your language and the vowels you choose to fill in the word.) In Hebrew as well as Latin, there's no letter "J", so the Romans wrote "Iulius Caesar" for Julius Caesar, and so on. If there's a truly definitive answer on pronunciation, I neither know it nor consider it important. "YHWH" was how it was written originally, and "Yahweh" is as close an approximation to pronouncing it as I can get, so I'm fine with that.
While you can find other gods mentioned in the Old Testament, and other "lords", they were called other things, "baal" or "adon", but NOT "YHWH." In the Bible, that word is only used to refer to God Almighty.
But sanctification is not a reward - it's what we received from God when we were born again as stated in 1 Cor 1:30, "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:" So if a Christian is still born again when he/she leaves TWI, then he/she would still be sanctified. And if he/she is still sanctified, then 1 Cor 7:14 would still apply. Right?
the way international is nothing more than a 501-c3 corporation that reflects the delusional practices of it's founder. You would be sanctified before, during, or after your time in TWI because they dont matter. All they have is mental bondage. Set that aside and they have nothing. Rosalie is a delusional liar to think she has ever determined spiritual consequences in someones life because she wields a salt dish and can quote scripture out of context. Mental bondage.
It's my personal opinion that God's Covenant with Israel remains in effect, and God's Covenant with Christians remains in effect.
Not to get too far off the beaten path, Im leaning, (at least at this point) towards The old covenant being fulfilled in Christ and the new covenant, basically built on the old covenant, is with Israel and includes the gentiles as well - really anyone who makes Jesus Lord. Its not replacement though. Israel hasnt been replaced, just gentiles included into the fold. Like most things in my life at this point, this too is a work in progress.
This is one of their most effective control tactics.
I think one of the strongest “gravitational pulls” that kept me in line was a fear of what could happen to me or my family if I left…tripped out or copped out.
I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps. wierwille’s go-to passage for instilling fear in devoted followers was John 13- Jesus predicts his betrayal during an evening meal with the disciples, then “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.” (verse 30). wierwille adapted John’s frequent use of something having double meaning – wierwille elaborated on “it was night” for his own fearmongering - stating unequivocally that the only alternative to the ministry that taught you the rightly divided word was oblivion. You walk out on wierwille/TWI it will be night! spiritual darkness. Really bad things happen under the cover of night.
whenever I thought of my future – I could never imagine leaving TWI. The possibility of tripping out / copping out was not a viable option. Thinking of a scenario like that was almost like entertaining thoughts of suicide, or what catastrophes would befall my wife and kids if I tripped out. My life, my dreams, my identity, my hopes, my family’s safety, and security were all wrapped up in my being loyal to the ministry.
Harmful and controlling cults are really crafty fvckers – they exploit primal fears and leave it up to us to construct our own mental prisons.
I'm just stunned and so disheartened. You wrote, "I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps." vp didn't pull any punches with you guys. You got it full blast. Does anyone know if it was this bad earlier on in the 6th Corps?
Fear seemed to be full tilt when it concerned breaking a commitment to twi, (even more so when a salt covenant was made). I left the ministry 3 times and only once did I "fall apart" because of fear - that was when I left the WOW field.
So many things about the ministry have suddenly become clear from being on this website. I have never used the word "cult" in my postings - I've always said twi or the ministry. I've described it as cult-like I think once. Now I understand why I read the word "cult" so often in many of the posts, often with the "f-word" attached to it. It really is that bad!
The final disposition of all humanity (is everyone everywhere and everywhen saved?) is a good subject for at least 1 thread. Unfortunately, a few posters got cagey talking around the subject (freaking WHY?), and when I made a thread for the subject, they refused to discuss it. Too bad, I think there's a lot to say on the subject.
Grease Spotters get cagey - no way! Who would have thought this was possible? lol
20 But the fact is, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21 For since by a man death came, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [i]Christ all will be made alive.23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that [j]this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him.28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
========================
It wouldn't be a bad idea to discuss this in a separate thread, probably in Doctrinal. I'd prefer to discuss what the Greek said in those verses rather than any English version, since they all will put their own spin on the subject, intentionally or not.
When someone switches the topic over to "Doctrine," are others involved in the discussion notified somehow?
With the "administration" approach, no 2 administrations remain in effect alongside each other. (We can also start drifting into "replacement theology", where Christians supposedly REPLACED Israel, and so on.)
It's my personal opinion that God's Covenant with Israel remains in effect, and God's Covenant with Christians remains in effect. I think Jesus, among others, tried to make a point about that very thing, where one person is promised one thing, and another is promised another, and each received what they were promised, independently of each other.
I was going to give a reply but I've changed my mind. I have to go to that "testing or training" site someone mentioned earlier because I'm not sure what to do when this happens. I'll submit my reply, and try to see if I can delete it so it doesn't show up. Sorry - "learning curve" and all that
the way international is nothing more than a 501-c3 corporation that reflects the delusional practices of it's founder. You would be sanctified before, during, or after your time in TWI because they dont matter. All they have is mental bondage. Set that aside and they have nothing. Rosalie is a delusional liar to think she has ever determined spiritual consequences in someones life because she wields a salt dish and can quote scripture out of context. Mental bondage.
So this cult is considered a 501-c3 corporation. therefore it doesn't have to pay taxes on the money that fear-controlled members give to it (many I'm sure with a grudging heart) because it uses the words God, Bible, Jesus Christ, etc. WOW, to me, that sounds like a big no-no .
So this cult is considered a 501-c3 corporation. therefore it doesn't have to pay taxes on the money that fear-controlled members give to it (many I'm sure with a grudging heart) because it uses the words God, Bible, Jesus Christ, etc. WOW, to me, that sounds like a big no-no .
That's all they are. Literally. The only power they ever have is by the agreement of those they seek to control.
This is why I've come to believe that GSC is so important and pray that more who are still in the cult will be lead to it
GSC was a huge factor in finding my way out of twi. I was literally at HQ when the Allen lawsuit was underway. I saw firsthand the dishonest coverup but likely would have swallowed the hook that Martindale's affair was one time and mutually consensual. GSC opened my eyes to the obvious. TWI is a corrupt organization that was facing RICO charges and those charges were going to trial because the judge upheld them after TWI sought to dismiss. What I learned here is the problem was decades old, led straight back to wierwille, and was an established pattern of abuse. I witnessed the whitewash as twi still strives to be legitimate. I've spoken on that topic extensively over the years.
Now that you've asked, I think that if they're not old enough or if they're mentally unable to understand and confess Rom 10:9,10 and get born again thereby becoming a member in the body of Christ (as is the case with my grandson), there is no way God would punish them like those who will be in the resurrection of the unjust. So that only leaves going to heaven, either at the gathering together or with the resurrection of the just. I personally prefer at the gathering together but either way, they will be resurrected to life .
Here’s another question for you. Confessing Romans 10:9,10. What does this entail for you? A rote formulaic approach to the new birth? Like PFAL taught SIT? You do 1,2,3 and by fulfilling the formula God come through His end?
Where is the detail regarding accepting Jesus as Lord?
I find this common in Way logic. People naturally gravitate towards numbered lists.
OS brought up Darby and administrations. Yes Jesus Christ changed the landscape. But when you have Biblical researchers like Darby and Bullinger who likely suffered from extreme mental control issues, little inconsistencies really drive that type of mind crazy, and they can’t leave it alone until every last little piece is in place.
So they squeeze and squeeze the scripture trying to get blood from a stone and extract some hidden meaning by mental gymnastics with dead languages.
Outside of all the scribe like mental waste of time, do you think our Heavenly Father who is love and light would leave an innocent in some state of outer darkness because of a poor choice of a parent?
No, God is not like TWI who discard people after their usefulness to their lust for power is gone.
GSC was a huge factor in finding my way out of twi. I was literally at HQ when the Allen lawsuit was underway. I saw firsthand the dishonest coverup but likely would have swallowed the hook that Martindale's affair was one time and mutually consensual. GSC opened my eyes to the obvious. TWI is a corrupt organization that was facing RICO charges and those charges were going to trial because the judge upheld them after TWI sought to dismiss. What I learned here is the problem was decades old, led straight back to wierwille, and was an established pattern of abuse. I witnessed the whitewash as twi still strives to be legitimate. I've spoken on that topic extensively over the years.
They were not criminal but part of the Allen lawsuit. So this is a civil litigation matter. Thus they went away with the lawsuit settlement as opposed to criminal charges pressed by a district attorney which are pursued by tax dollars.
Twi settled out of court with the Allen's. They paid a lot of money for the truth to stay off public record. They wouldn't have survived. The changes they've made are superficial.
Twi settled out of court with the Allen's. They paid a lot of money for the truth to stay off public record. They wouldn't have survived. The changes they've made are superficial.
A very interesting detail about this that is not really widely know I discovered by researching Baker & Hostetler legal actions over time.
I discovered a lawsuit filed by them against the insurance company for the liability insurance they carried on the BOD. They were trying to collect back insurance money from the insurers over the lawsuit settlement.
So whatever the payout was, which is surmised to be a multi million dollar lawsuit, was paid out straight out of your ABS. I’m not sure if they successfully collected it back from the insurance company or not the settlement of that suit was not public.
Here’s another question for you. Confessing Romans 10:9,10. What does this entail for you? A rote formulaic approach to the new birth? Like PFAL taught SIT? You do 1,2,3 and by fulfilling the formula God come through His end?
Where is the detail regarding accepting Jesus as Lord?
Outside of all the scribe like mental waste of time, do you think our Heavenly Father who is love and light would leave an innocent in some state of outer darkness because of a poor choice of a parent?
Good questions. The answer to the second one is no. The first one I have to think on a bit. I'll start with Romans 10:8-13 and get back to you.
8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart (that is, the message of trust that we are proclaiming),
9 because if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, Whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call on him;
13 for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Checking Bible Hub just now, I'm seeing that each of the "will be saved" above is in the "future indicative passive."
This really seems like something for the "Doctrine" thread. Should we go there?
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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T-Bone
This is one of their most effective control tactics.
I think one of the strongest “gravitational pulls” that kept me in line was a fear of what could happen to me or my family if I left…tripped out or copped out.
I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps. wierwille’s go-to passage for instilling fear in devoted followers was John 13 - Jesus predicts his betrayal during an evening meal with the disciples, then “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.” (verse 30). wierwille adapted John’s frequent use of something having double meaning – wierwille elaborated on “it was night” for his own fearmongering - stating unequivocally that the only alternative to the ministry that taught you the rightly divided word was oblivion. You walk out on wierwille/TWI it will be night! spiritual darkness. Really bad things happen under the cover of night.
whenever I thought of my future – I could never imagine leaving TWI. The possibility of tripping out / copping out was not a viable option. Thinking of a scenario like that was almost like entertaining thoughts of suicide, or what catastrophes would befall my wife and kids if I tripped out. My life, my dreams, my identity, my hopes, my family’s safety, and security were all wrapped up in my being loyal to the ministry.
Harmful and controlling cults are really crafty fvckers – they exploit primal fears and leave it up to us to construct our own mental prisons.
Edited by T-BoneClarity
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Nathan_Jr
The sad irony is these are the very things one stands to lose by remaining in a cult, by imitating victor, by standing on his shoulders.
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WordWolf
The final disposition of all humanity (is everyone everywhere and everywhen saved?) is a good subject for at least 1 thread. Unfortunately, a few posters got cagey talking around the subject (freaking WHY?), and when I made a thread for the subject, they refused to discuss it. Too bad, I think there's a lot to say on the subject.
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WordWolf
I Corinthians 15: 20-28 (NASB)
20 But the fact is, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man death came, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [i]Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that [j]this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
========================
It wouldn't be a bad idea to discuss this in a separate thread, probably in Doctrinal. I'd prefer to discuss what the Greek said in those verses rather than any English version, since they all will put their own spin on the subject, intentionally or not.
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WordWolf
Whether or not there are "administrations"/"dispensations" in history is a subject for debate, with different posters holding different positions.
On the one hand, I disagree with those who keep blaming Mac Donald for inventing it or Darby for disseminating what Mac Donald invented- I don't think this doctrine can be traced at all to her or significantly to him.
On the other hand, ignoring a question of who said what, my own thinking on Scripture has generally resembled another position on history- a "covenantal" approach. That is, rather than say "now began the Law Administration", I'd say "now God entered into a covenant with Israel with the Mosaic Law." With the "administration" approach, no 2 administrations remain in effect alongside each other. (We can also start drifting into "replacement theology", where Christians supposedly REPLACED Israel, and so on.)
It's my personal opinion that God's Covenant with Israel remains in effect, and God's Covenant with Christians remains in effect. I think Jesus, among others, tried to make a point about that very thing, where one person is promised one thing, and another is promised another, and each received what they were promised, independently of each other.
Once again, this might be a good topic to start in the "Doctrinal" forum. Don't be shocked when you see different posters rather emphatic on their positions.
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WordWolf
When paging through the King James Version, in the Old Testament, you may notice that sometimes the word "LORD" is in all caps, and rarely the word "GOD" is in all caps. That's not a stylistic decision. In those cases, the Hebrew word there was "YHWH." For the high-faluting, that's the Tetragrammaton (the 4 letters.) For observant Jews, it's a common practice to refuse to write it or say it aloud out of respect for God Almighty. So, that "YHWH", depending on translation, has also been rendered "Yahweh", and "Jehovah." (Depending on the letters in your language and the vowels you choose to fill in the word.) In Hebrew as well as Latin, there's no letter "J", so the Romans wrote "Iulius Caesar" for Julius Caesar, and so on. If there's a truly definitive answer on pronunciation, I neither know it nor consider it important. "YHWH" was how it was written originally, and "Yahweh" is as close an approximation to pronouncing it as I can get, so I'm fine with that.
While you can find other gods mentioned in the Old Testament, and other "lords", they were called other things, "baal" or "adon", but NOT "YHWH." In the Bible, that word is only used to refer to God Almighty.
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OldSkool
the way international is nothing more than a 501-c3 corporation that reflects the delusional practices of it's founder. You would be sanctified before, during, or after your time in TWI because they dont matter. All they have is mental bondage. Set that aside and they have nothing. Rosalie is a delusional liar to think she has ever determined spiritual consequences in someones life because she wields a salt dish and can quote scripture out of context. Mental bondage.
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OldSkool
Not to get too far off the beaten path, Im leaning, (at least at this point) towards The old covenant being fulfilled in Christ and the new covenant, basically built on the old covenant, is with Israel and includes the gentiles as well - really anyone who makes Jesus Lord. Its not replacement though. Israel hasnt been replaced, just gentiles included into the fold. Like most things in my life at this point, this too is a work in progress.
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Charity
What is "Irish Eyes Internet" on the "Donate" page?
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Charity
I'm just stunned and so disheartened. You wrote, "I remember one very ominous teaching in the way corps." vp didn't pull any punches with you guys. You got it full blast. Does anyone know if it was this bad earlier on in the 6th Corps?
Fear seemed to be full tilt when it concerned breaking a commitment to twi, (even more so when a salt covenant was made). I left the ministry 3 times and only once did I "fall apart" because of fear - that was when I left the WOW field.
So many things about the ministry have suddenly become clear from being on this website. I have never used the word "cult" in my postings - I've always said twi or the ministry. I've described it as cult-like I think once. Now I understand why I read the word "cult" so often in many of the posts, often with the "f-word" attached to it. It really is that bad!
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Charity
So f'ing true! I'm really ....$ed off right now.
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Charity
Grease Spotters get cagey - no way! Who would have thought this was possible? lol
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Charity
When someone switches the topic over to "Doctrine," are others involved in the discussion notified somehow?
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Charity
I was going to give a reply but I've changed my mind. I have to go to that "testing or training" site someone mentioned earlier because I'm not sure what to do when this happens. I'll submit my reply, and try to see if I can delete it so it doesn't show up. Sorry - "learning curve" and all that
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Charity
So this cult is considered a 501-c3 corporation. therefore it doesn't have to pay taxes on the money that fear-controlled members give to it (many I'm sure with a grudging heart) because it uses the words God, Bible, Jesus Christ, etc. WOW, to me, that sounds like a big no-no
.
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OldSkool
That's all they are. Literally. The only power they ever have is by the agreement of those they seek to control.
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Charity
This is why I've come to believe that GSC is so important and pray that more who are still in the cult will be lead to it.
Whoops I did it again (quoted OldSkool twice)
. I'll go back right now and look for the posts sent to me previously on how to fix this problem.
P.S. I love the happy face option above. (I took
this one to mean silly me).
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OldSkool
GSC was a huge factor in finding my way out of twi. I was literally at HQ when the Allen lawsuit was underway. I saw firsthand the dishonest coverup but likely would have swallowed the hook that Martindale's affair was one time and mutually consensual. GSC opened my eyes to the obvious. TWI is a corrupt organization that was facing RICO charges and those charges were going to trial because the judge upheld them after TWI sought to dismiss. What I learned here is the problem was decades old, led straight back to wierwille, and was an established pattern of abuse. I witnessed the whitewash as twi still strives to be legitimate. I've spoken on that topic extensively over the years.
GSC still matters.
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chockfull
Here’s another question for you. Confessing Romans 10:9,10. What does this entail for you? A rote formulaic approach to the new birth? Like PFAL taught SIT? You do 1,2,3 and by fulfilling the formula God come through His end?
Where is the detail regarding accepting Jesus as Lord?
I find this common in Way logic. People naturally gravitate towards numbered lists.
OS brought up Darby and administrations. Yes Jesus Christ changed the landscape. But when you have Biblical researchers like Darby and Bullinger who likely suffered from extreme mental control issues, little inconsistencies really drive that type of mind crazy, and they can’t leave it alone until every last little piece is in place.
So they squeeze and squeeze the scripture trying to get blood from a stone and extract some hidden meaning by mental gymnastics with dead languages.
Outside of all the scribe like mental waste of time, do you think our Heavenly Father who is love and light would leave an innocent in some state of outer darkness because of a poor choice of a parent?
No, God is not like TWI who discard people after their usefulness to their lust for power is gone.
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Charity
What ever happened with the RICO charges?
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chockfull
They were not criminal but part of the Allen lawsuit. So this is a civil litigation matter. Thus they went away with the lawsuit settlement as opposed to criminal charges pressed by a district attorney which are pursued by tax dollars.
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OldSkool
Twi settled out of court with the Allen's. They paid a lot of money for the truth to stay off public record. They wouldn't have survived. The changes they've made are superficial.
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chockfull
A very interesting detail about this that is not really widely know I discovered by researching Baker & Hostetler legal actions over time.
I discovered a lawsuit filed by them against the insurance company for the liability insurance they carried on the BOD. They were trying to collect back insurance money from the insurers over the lawsuit settlement.
So whatever the payout was, which is surmised to be a multi million dollar lawsuit, was paid out straight out of your ABS. I’m not sure if they successfully collected it back from the insurance company or not the settlement of that suit was not public.
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Charity
Good questions. The answer to the second one is no. The first one I have to think on a bit. I'll start with Romans 10:8-13 and get back to you.
8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart (that is, the message of trust that we are proclaiming),
9 because if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from among the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, Whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call on him;
13 for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Checking Bible Hub just now, I'm seeing that each of the "will be saved" above is in the "future indicative passive."
This really seems like something for the "Doctrine" thread. Should we go there?
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