If something is absent, it's not here, it's not present.
God in Christ in you? How can Christ be in you if Christ is absent? Are you absent? Where is the power if it is absent?
And what is the word that takes the place of this absent Christ? The Bible? The KJV Bible? The Llamsa Bible? What a disappointing substitute!
This is one of many, many examples of victor defecating in his own hand and then throwing that feces in the face of God.
If something is absent,
it's not here, it's not present.
Right.
God in Christ in you?
Yes, God was in the man (physical), Jesus Christ when he walked the Earth, before the Ascension.
Then via Pentecost, we get the spirit from Christ, or holy spirit, in us.
We do NOT get Christ the flesh and bones man in us.
We get the spirit that Christ made available for us, and having that Christ-given spirit in us was shortened in the Bible to say Christ in you.
That means “the spirit from Christ in you.”
It does NOT mean Jesus, the man, in you.
How can Christ be in you if Christ is absent?
Christ, the man, is not in you.
He is absent, hidden says Acts 1:9 and he is coming back. He’s absent right now. God removed Jesus' personal flesh presence from us for His very good reasons.
The power is in Christ, at the right hand of God,
AND it is in the spirit from Christ in you here on earth.
That is why it is IMPORTANT for you to be an ambassador, Jesus the man, with his power, is absent.
So the only place left here on Earth with the power of Christ is in you, and you, and you...
It’s up to yous guys now…. Til he returns.
Meanwhile God is not absent at all, ever.
*/*/*/*
And what is the word that takes the place of this absent Christ?
The Bible? The KJV Bible? The Llamsa Bible?
The Word taught to a believer who walks in love, like Jesus did is what takes the place of the man Jesus.
It must be enough of the accurate Word in order for this believer to have power, and it must be mixed with believing.
You can have only a little of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, and for that time you are believing, you can take the place of the absent Christ. When you do that, then Christ is present where ever you are.
When you have a LOT of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, then for that time you are believing, you can can do all the things Jesus did and greater.
And what is the word that takes the place of this absent Christ?
The Bible? The KJV Bible? The Llamsa Bible?
The Word taught to a believer who walks in love, like Jesus did is what takes the place of the man Jesus.
It must be enough of the accurate Word in order for this believer to have power, and it must be mixed with believing.
You can have only a little of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, and for that time you are believing, you can take the place of the absent Christ. When you do that, then Christ is present where ever you are.
When you have a LOT of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, then for that time you are believing, you can can do all the things Jesus did and greater.
Why is this such a difficult question to answer? What is this word that is taught? What is this word that someone can possess a little or a lot? Just say it.
Why is this such a difficult question to answer? What is this word that is taught? What is this word that someone can possess a little or a lot? Just say it.
Primarlly, it's Paul's Epistles:
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thess 2:13 KJV)
Why was Paul blinded and not his companions? I don’t know.
As 1 Corinthians says in 13:9-12, we know only in part now and will only know fully when we see Jesus Christ face to face. When reading Acts 9:1-19 and other bible verses, Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor of the disciples of Jesus Christ, even more than the people who walked with him and Jesus wanted to stop or prevent Saul from this, while being fully successful.
Quote
Acts 9:1-4 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
(NIV)
Jesus Christ will be successful in getting more and more people to change and follow Him in the future. Especially when he returns for the 1000 year period of time with the devil and demons getting placed in prison so that they can not deceive humanity as covered in Revelation 20. A judgement of humanity at the end of Revelation chapter 20. The new heaven and earth as read in Revelation 21 and 22. I explain these chapters in the last 2 chapter of my biblical teaching book, named "Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ".
If something is absent,
it's not here, it's not present.
Right.
God in Christ in you?
Yes, God was in the man (physical), Jesus Christ when he walked the Earth, before the Ascension.
Then via Pentecost, we get the spirit from Christ, or holy spirit, in us.
We do NOT get Christ the flesh and bones man in us.
We get the spirit that Christ made available for us, and having that Christ-given spirit in us was shortened in the Bible to say Christ in you.
That means “the spirit from Christ in you.”
It does NOT mean Jesus, the man, in you.
How can Christ be in you if Christ is absent?
Christ, the man, is not in you.
He is absent, hidden says Acts 1:9 and he is coming back. He’s absent right now. God removed Jesus' personal flesh presence from us for His very good reasons.
The power is in Christ, at the right hand of God,
AND it is in the spirit from Christ in you here on earth.
That is why it is IMPORTANT for you to be an ambassador, Jesus the man, with his power, is absent.
So the only place left here on Earth with the power of Christ is in you, and you, and you...
It’s up to yous guys now…. Til he returns.
Meanwhile God is not absent at all, ever.
And what is the word that takes the place of this absent Christ?
The Bible? The KJV Bible? The Llamsa Bible?
The Word taught to a believer who walks in love, like Jesus did is what takes the place of the man Jesus.
It must be enough of the accurate Word in order for this believer to have power, and it must be mixed with believing.
You can have only a little of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, and for that time you are believing, you can take the place of the absent Christ. When you do that, then Christ is present where ever you are.
When you have a LOT of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, then for that time you are believing, you can can do all the things Jesus did and greater.
Again, YOUunderestimate the risen Christ.
And why do you harp on Jesus the man?
Do you have an “identity crisis” about Jesus Christ?
Are you uncertain or confused about who he is – then or now?
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
Would you feel a lot more comfortable if he showed you a government-issue photo ID?
You seem to have a problem believing Jesus Christ is both transcendent and immanent.
Do you feel the need to reduce Jesus Christ down to something manageable?
Not to bring it up again - but wierwille had that same tendency to underestimate the God that he preached about. From page 19 of Lifelines wierwille said The believer’s fear binds the omnipotence of God.
Here’s an interesting book with an apt title for those who like to put God in a box:
I wonder if wierwille liked the idea of a god HE could manage...if and when his conscience might bother him over his despicable behavior he could just relegate this god to the back of his mind and justify himself by thinking God puts up with my bad behavior because I'm teaching His Word.
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thess 2:13 KJV)
What about all those scrolls of the Septuagint that Paul was so adamant Timothy retrieve? Those were Old Testament scrolls. Paul taught from those scriptures. Any time "scripture" is mentioned in any epistles the meaning is individual and collected writings that would eventually be known as the Hebrew Bible. Is the Hebrew Bible the word?
As 1 Corinthians says in 13:9-12, we know only in part now and will only know fully when we see Jesus Christ face to face. When reading Acts 9:1-19 and other bible verses, Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor of the disciples of Jesus Christ, even more than the people who walked with him and Jesus wanted to stop or prevent Saul from this, while being fully successful.
But in reading Acts 9 I don't find where it says Saul was blinded because ...maybe you've seen thatreason clearly indicated in other passages - if so, can you please point them out?
But in reading Acts 9 I don't find where it says Saul was blinded because ...maybe you've seen thatreason clearly indicated in other passages - if so, can you please point them out?
Acts 9:7-9
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. (NIV)
Who was Saul blinded or blind by? It looks like a miracle from God and Jesus Christ.
Do you have an “identity crisis” about Jesus Christ?
Are you uncertain or confused about who he is – then or now?
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Again, YOUunderestimate the risen Christ. I think you are confusing the risen Christ before the Ascension with the risen Christ after the Ascension.
And why do you harp on Jesus the man? It says in 1 Timothy 2:5 that there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.This is the post-Ascension, risen Christ, and it calls him a man.
Do you have an “identity crisis” about Jesus Christ? My identity is an ambassador for the man while he is gone. I got the same connection to the Father he had; we all have this.
Are you uncertain or confused about who he is – then or now? No.The angels in Acts say THIS SAME JESUS is coming back in the future. Right now he is a life giving by what he did. I am looking forward to seeing him come back. Until then I am content with knowing him by doing his work from the spirit he made available for me.If God want me to communicate with him in ANY way directly, that is God’s business. So far, I see God made it His business to hide “this same Jesus” for a while until he returns, and we have the spirit he provided to Comfort us in his absence.
As 1 Corinthians says in 13:9-12, we know only in part now and will only know fully when we see Jesus Christ face to face. When reading Acts 9:1-19 and other bible verses, Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor of the disciples of Jesus Christ, even more than the people who walked with him and Jesus wanted to stop or prevent Saul from this, while being fully successful.
Because = the reason that, since; used to introduce a word or phrase that stands for a clause expressing an explanation or reason; Because is a conjunction. It typically expresses a logical link between two ideas or events. Often, this link is due to cause and effect.
It does not say "Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor" - YOU are saying that. The passage does NOT give the REASON Paul was blinded.
52 minutes ago, Mark Sanguinetti said:
Acts 9:7-9
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. (NIV)
Who was Saul blinded or blind by? It looks like a miracle from God and Jesus Christ.
Not sure why you quoted this...okay I think you're saying Paul was blinded by God & JC - but as God & JC's defense attorney - I would just like to say...naw just kidding they don't need my apologetics...what I'm getting at is that it may not have been the intention of God & JC to blind Paul for being a bad guy. The trauma may have been something Paul brought on himself - like I said earlier in daring to look at Christ's visage....the way you used "because" in your earlier post implies intent or motivation on the part of God & JC...but maybe that is what you meant to convey - I don't know.
Let’s look at it another way…I walk up to a fenced-in area that is a power sub-station and it has signs posted all over the place – like this:
I’m not authorized personnel – matter of fact I’m on my break from the McDonald’s down the street - I can see, read and understand all the signage - but I decide to climb the fence on a whim anyway – I then walk over to one of the lower transformers touch a 440 volt line and poof – I be dead!
Do we say The Power company electrocuted that man because he was a dumb-a$$?
Again, getting back to Paul’s conversion – why was he blinded and not his companions? I don’t know. One possibility was that he was such a headstrong person that he defiantly stared at the Son of God when the others shielded their eyes.
What about all those scrolls of the Septuagint that Paul was so adamant Timothy retrieve? Those were Old Testament scrolls. Paul taught from those scriptures. Any time "scripture" is mentioned in any epistles the meaning is individual and collected writings that would eventually be known as the Hebrew Bible. Is the Hebrew Bible the word?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Thanks, Mike, for that direct answer: Primarily Paul's epistles.
growing up in New York I would often see adults playing bocce at parks
I actually learned how to play in upstate New York at summer camp! It's such a simple game of pure leisure. Lawn bowling. Its origins can be traced back to Ancient Rome.
I always had this romantic fantasy of old Italian men playing bocce while drinking wine from juice cups. I tried my best to live that out in my twenties and thirties.
BUT, today it's a metaphor for something else entirely.
Not sure why you quoted this...okay I think you're saying Paul was blinded by God & JC - but as God & JC's defense attorney - I would just like to say...naw just kidding they don't need my apologetics...what I'm getting at is that it may not have been the intention of God & JC to blind Paul for being a bad guy. The trauma may have been something Paul brought on himself - like I said earlier in daring to look at Christ's visage....the way you used "because" in your earlier post implies intent or motivation on the part of God & JC...but maybe that is what you meant to convey - I don't know
Why don't you want to see that God and Jesus were PROTECTING followers of Jesus Christ so that Saul could not see to get more people MURDERED like Saul did with Stephen before Saul became a follower of Jesus Christ and a very good New Testament teacher? You have logic, but please use logic now. After Saul got out of his mind that of, in practical application, being a religious mafia member or a hateful Pharisee, while again wanting to MURDER more followers of Jesus Christ, like Saul did with Stephen. Then God and Jesus Christ blinded Saul to PROTECT followers of Jesus Christ. Using my VERY GOOD biblical study software program, here are the verses showing Saul's change from being a HATEFUL Pharisee to being a FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST.
Quote
Acts 9:1-22
9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6 "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." 7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. 10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord," he answered. 11 The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." 13 "Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name." 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name." 17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord-Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here — has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. 20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. 21 All those who heard him were astonished and asked, "Isn't he the man who raised havoc in Jerusalem among those who call on this name? And hasn't he come here to take them as prisoners to the chief priests?" 22 Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ. (NIV)
I actually learned how to play in upstate New York at summer camp! It's such a simple game of pure leisure. Lawn bowling. Its origins can be traced back to Ancient Rome.
I always had this romantic fantasy of old Italian men playing bocce while drinking wine from juice cups. I tried my best to live that out in my twenties and thirties.
BUT, today it's a metaphor for something else entirely.
I like simple
I’m not much of an athlete and not very competitive but I do enjoy playing a game when a game is laid back enough, so it really doubles as a good excuse to visit with friends.
I have some friends who are real sportsman - - into hunting and fishing, and they love to take this city boy out and show me the ropes. I can tell they get a kick out of teaching – and laughing at my ineptness – but it’s all good-natured and we enjoy each other’s company.
Sometimes sitting around in the late morning and the dove aren’t active or the fish aren’t biting – we get to visit and talk about…whatever. To me that’s more enjoyable than the sport itself.
I’m not much of an athlete and not very competitive but I do enjoy playing a game when a game is laid back enough, so it really doubles as a good excuse to visit with friends.
I have some friends who are real sportsman - - into hunting and fishing, and they love to take this city boy out and show me the ropes. I can tell they get a kick out of teaching – and laughing at my ineptness – but it’s all good-natured and we enjoy each other’s company.
Sometimes sitting around in the late morning and the dove aren’t active or the fish aren’t biting – we get to visit and talk about…whatever. To me that’s more enjoyable than the sport itself.
Why don't you want to see that God and Jesus were PROTECTING followers of Jesus Christ so that Saul could not see to get more people MURDERED like Saul did with Stephen before Saul became a follower of Jesus Christ and a very good New Testament teacher? You have logic, but please use logic now. After Saul got out of his mind that of, in practical application, being a religious mafia member or a hateful Pharisee, while again wanting to MURDER more followers of Jesus Christ, like Saul did with Stephen. Then God and Jesus Christ healed Saul to PROTECT other followers of Jesus Christ. Using my VERY GOOD biblical study software program, here are the verses showing Saul's change from being a HATEFUL Pharisee to being a FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST.
You’re really asking me why I don’t see YOURpoint of view.
I don’t think that’s a fair question BECAUSE- - -what makes you think YOURviewpoint is right or that it is the only viewpoint that matters?
1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Did Jesus say the reason accidents, tragedies, cruel acts of punishment, killings, etc. happen is because it’s God’s judgement on especially bad people?
What does your VERY GOOD biblical study software program say about those passages in Luke?
Again Jesus Christ and God were protecting followers of Jesus Christ by blinding Saul who again was wanting to religiously capture followers of Jesus Christ and find a reason to have them murdered like Saul did with Stephen. Perhaps, you can think about it this way. If a person was trying to capture and find a reason to have you murdered, would you at least call the police? I wonder if you would also pray to God? Using logic followers of Jesus Christ knew how to pray to God for protection. Historically in the first century followers of Jesus Christ did not have the help of a protective government. Therefore they needed help from God. Jesus Christ in his earthly life saw the hatred in Israel and the Roman empire and knew that there would be destruction in the capital city of Israel soon. Historically in 70 AD the capital city of Israel or Jerusalem was at least partially destroyed by the Roman empire. Sorry, but I am not blaming God or Jesus Christ for this destruction. It came because humans are not puppets on a string with God controlling everything that people do or want to do.
So far, I see God made it His business to hide “this same Jesus” for a while until he returns, and we have the spirit he provided to Comfort us in his absence.
Congrats Mike – you’ve got a new game to market:
Where's Jesus?
Look for it wherever these other "find" games are sold
Boy oh boy! You folks seem to be (I peeked above) really into having Saul blinded by God. I always thought the devil did that, and was trying to kill him, but God was able to protect his life, like with Job. God's will was for him to see, so He made immediate provisions to heal Saul's blindness.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Mike
If something is absent,
it's not here, it's not present.
Right.
God in Christ in you?
Yes, God was in the man (physical), Jesus Christ when he walked the Earth, before the Ascension.
Then via Pentecost, we get the spirit from Christ, or holy spirit, in us.
We do NOT get Christ the flesh and bones man in us.
We get the spirit that Christ made available for us, and having that Christ-given spirit in us was shortened in the Bible to say Christ in you.
That means “the spirit from Christ in you.”
It does NOT mean Jesus, the man, in you.
How can Christ be in you if Christ is absent?
Christ, the man, is not in you.
He is absent, hidden says Acts 1:9 and he is coming back. He’s absent right now. God removed Jesus' personal flesh presence from us for His very good reasons.
The power is in Christ, at the right hand of God,
AND it is in the spirit from Christ in you here on earth.
That is why it is IMPORTANT for you to be an ambassador, Jesus the man, with his power, is absent.
So the only place left here on Earth with the power of Christ is in you, and you, and you...
It’s up to yous guys now…. Til he returns.
Meanwhile God is not absent at all, ever.
*/*/*/*
And what is the word that takes the place of this absent Christ?
The Bible? The KJV Bible? The Llamsa Bible?
The Word taught to a believer who walks in love, like Jesus did is what takes the place of the man Jesus.
It must be enough of the accurate Word in order for this believer to have power, and it must be mixed with believing.
You can have only a little of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, and for that time you are believing, you can take the place of the absent Christ. When you do that, then Christ is present where ever you are.
When you have a LOT of the accurate Word, and believe big like Jesus believed, then for that time you are believing, you can can do all the things Jesus did and greater.
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Nathan_Jr
Why is this such a difficult question to answer? What is this word that is taught? What is this word that someone can possess a little or a lot? Just say it.
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Mike
Primarlly, it's Paul's Epistles:
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thess 2:13 KJV)
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Mark Sanguinetti
As 1 Corinthians says in 13:9-12, we know only in part now and will only know fully when we see Jesus Christ face to face. When reading Acts 9:1-19 and other bible verses, Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor of the disciples of Jesus Christ, even more than the people who walked with him and Jesus wanted to stop or prevent Saul from this, while being fully successful.
Jesus Christ will be successful in getting more and more people to change and follow Him in the future. Especially when he returns for the 1000 year period of time with the devil and demons getting placed in prison so that they can not deceive humanity as covered in Revelation 20. A judgement of humanity at the end of Revelation chapter 20. The new heaven and earth as read in Revelation 21 and 22. I explain these chapters in the last 2 chapter of my biblical teaching book, named "Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ".
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T-Bone
Again, YOU underestimate the risen Christ.
And why do you harp on Jesus the man?
Do you have an “identity crisis” about Jesus Christ?
Are you uncertain or confused about who he is – then or now?
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
Luke 24
The risen Christ said, “it is I myself?”
Would you feel a lot more comfortable if he showed you a government-issue photo ID?
You seem to have a problem believing Jesus Christ is both transcendent and immanent.
Do you feel the need to reduce Jesus Christ down to something manageable?
Not to bring it up again - but wierwille had that same tendency to underestimate the God that he preached about. From page 19 of Lifelines wierwille said The believer’s fear binds the omnipotence of God.
Here’s an interesting book with an apt title for those who like to put God in a box:
The Trivialization of God: The Dangerous Illusion of a Manageable Deity
I wonder if wierwille liked the idea of a god HE could manage...if and when his conscience might bother him over his despicable behavior he could just relegate this god to the back of his mind and justify himself by thinking God puts up with my bad behavior because I'm teaching His Word.
Edited by T-Bonefix um dudes
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Nathan_Jr
What about all those scrolls of the Septuagint that Paul was so adamant Timothy retrieve? Those were Old Testament scrolls. Paul taught from those scriptures. Any time "scripture" is mentioned in any epistles the meaning is individual and collected writings that would eventually be known as the Hebrew Bible. Is the Hebrew Bible the word?
Edited by Nathan_JrMeta
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T-Bone
But in reading Acts 9 I don't find where it says Saul was blinded because ...maybe you've seen that reason clearly indicated in other passages - if so, can you please point them out?
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Mark Sanguinetti
Acts 9:7-9
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. (NIV)
Who was Saul blinded or blind by? It looks like a miracle from God and Jesus Christ.
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Mike
Again, YOU underestimate the risen Christ.
I think you are confusing the risen Christ before the Ascension with the risen Christ after the Ascension.
And why do you harp on Jesus the man?
It says in 1 Timothy 2:5 that there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. This is the post-Ascension, risen Christ, and it calls him a man.
Do you have an “identity crisis” about Jesus Christ?
My identity is an ambassador for the man while he is gone. I got the same connection to the Father he had; we all have this.
Are you uncertain or confused about who he is – then or now?
No. The angels in Acts say THIS SAME JESUS is coming back in the future. Right now he is a life giving by what he did. I am looking forward to seeing him come back. Until then I am content with knowing him by doing his work from the spirit he made available for me. If God want me to communicate with him in ANY way directly, that is God’s business. So far, I see God made it His business to hide “this same Jesus” for a while until he returns, and we have the spirit he provided to Comfort us in his absence.
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T-Bone
Because = the reason that, since; used to introduce a word or phrase that stands for a clause expressing an explanation or reason; Because is a conjunction. It typically expresses a logical link between two ideas or events. Often, this link is due to cause and effect.
It does not say "Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor" - YOU are saying that. The passage does NOT give the REASON Paul was blinded.
Not sure why you quoted this...okay I think you're saying Paul was blinded by God & JC - but as God & JC's defense attorney
- I would just like to say...naw just kidding they don't need my apologetics...what I'm getting at is that it may not have been the intention of God & JC to blind Paul for being a bad guy. The trauma may have been something Paul brought on himself - like I said earlier in daring to look at Christ's visage....the way you used "because" in your earlier post implies intent or motivation on the part of God & JC...but maybe that is what you meant to convey - I don't know.
Let’s look at it another way…I walk up to a fenced-in area that is a power sub-station and it has signs posted all over the place – like this:
I’m not authorized personnel – matter of fact I’m on my break from the McDonald’s down the street - I can see, read and understand all the signage - but I decide to climb the fence on a whim anyway – I then walk over to one of the lower transformers touch a 440 volt line and poof – I be dead!
Do we say The Power company electrocuted that man because he was a dumb-a$$ ?
Again, getting back to Paul’s conversion – why was he blinded and not his companions? I don’t know. One possibility was that he was such a headstrong person that he defiantly stared at the Son of God when the others shielded their eyes.
Edited by T-Boneclarification
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Mike
.
QUICK QUESTION:
Does Jesus Christ need to be present to bless us?
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T-Bone
Wow – this is even more whacky than Bullinger/wierwille’s dispensationalism!
Well…to each his own.
Have fun Mike
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T-Bone
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks, Mike, for that direct answer: Primarily Paul's epistles.
Please answer my follow up question.
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Nathan_Jr
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T-Bone
cool picture Nathan!
growing up in New York I would often see adults playing bocce at parks
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Nathan_Jr
I actually learned how to play in upstate New York at summer camp! It's such a simple game of pure leisure. Lawn bowling. Its origins can be traced back to Ancient Rome.
I always had this romantic fantasy of old Italian men playing bocce while drinking wine from juice cups. I tried my best to live that out in my twenties and thirties.
BUT, today it's a metaphor for something else entirely.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Why don't you want to see that God and Jesus were PROTECTING followers of Jesus Christ so that Saul could not see to get more people MURDERED like Saul did with Stephen before Saul became a follower of Jesus Christ and a very good New Testament teacher? You have logic, but please use logic now. After Saul got out of his mind that of, in practical application, being a religious mafia member or a hateful Pharisee, while again wanting to MURDER more followers of Jesus Christ, like Saul did with Stephen. Then God and Jesus Christ blinded Saul to PROTECT followers of Jesus Christ. Using my VERY GOOD biblical study software program, here are the verses showing Saul's change from being a HATEFUL Pharisee to being a FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST.
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T-Bone
I like simple
I’m not much of an athlete and not very competitive but I do enjoy playing a game when a game is laid back enough, so it really doubles as a good excuse to visit with friends.
I have some friends who are real sportsman - - into hunting and fishing, and they love to take this city boy out and show me the ropes. I can tell they get a kick out of teaching – and laughing at my ineptness – but it’s all good-natured and we enjoy each other’s company.
Sometimes sitting around in the late morning and the dove aren’t active or the fish aren’t biting – we get to visit and talk about…whatever. To me that’s more enjoyable than the sport itself.
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Nathan_Jr
Literally all of this. We have much in common.
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T-Bone
You’re really asking me why I don’t see YOUR point of view.
I don’t think that’s a fair question BECAUSE - - -what makes you think YOUR viewpoint is right or that it is the only viewpoint that matters?
Consider Luke 13
1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Did Jesus say the reason accidents, tragedies, cruel acts of punishment, killings, etc. happen is because it’s God’s judgement on especially bad people?
What does your VERY GOOD biblical study software program say about those passages in Luke?
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Mark Sanguinetti
Again Jesus Christ and God were protecting followers of Jesus Christ by blinding Saul who again was wanting to religiously capture followers of Jesus Christ and find a reason to have them murdered like Saul did with Stephen. Perhaps, you can think about it this way. If a person was trying to capture and find a reason to have you murdered, would you at least call the police? I wonder if you would also pray to God? Using logic followers of Jesus Christ knew how to pray to God for protection. Historically in the first century followers of Jesus Christ did not have the help of a protective government. Therefore they needed help from God. Jesus Christ in his earthly life saw the hatred in Israel and the Roman empire and knew that there would be destruction in the capital city of Israel soon. Historically in 70 AD the capital city of Israel or Jerusalem was at least partially destroyed by the Roman empire. Sorry, but I am not blaming God or Jesus Christ for this destruction. It came because humans are not puppets on a string with God controlling everything that people do or want to do.
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T-Bone
Congrats Mike – you’ve got a new game to market:
Where's Jesus?
Look for it wherever these other "find" games are sold
This one would go great with the Blue Book
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Mike
I just got home.
What did I miss?
Boy oh boy! You folks seem to be (I peeked above) really into having Saul blinded by God. I always thought the devil did that, and was trying to kill him, but God was able to protect his life, like with Job. God's will was for him to see, so He made immediate provisions to heal Saul's blindness.
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