I never, ever heard anyone, including VPW, use this simple way to unravel the trinity. The Father is the Holy Spirit; different titles for the same True God. So, I am copyrighting it, and you all have to cite me if you use it.
Victor said the word replaces the absent Christ. He said the Bible is the word. The Bible can only ever be a translated version of copies of manuscripts. But the word is not a translation or a version. So the word cannot be the Bible as victor claimed.
His crawfishing and contradictions are problematic. But maybe the secret code to wash the brain is in Paul, a Jew's Jew. (Ironic because Victor despised Jews.) Paul said ambassadors replace the Nazarene. Are ambassadors the Bible? Or are ambassadors the word?
The word IS is not in the text, like the word ONE is not in the text. I don't even need my notes to show this tremendous kernel of truth.
Aw, you spoiled the next routine! We were going to get some vague comments, and some question vaguely related to one or the other, and if someone answered, Mike was going to announce those like they were actual news. If nobody answered, Mike was going to announce that nobody was able to answer his questions- which still produces disinterest and rolled eyes around here.
---------------------------------------------
BTW, you've missed some of the best stuff. Mike promotes pfal so much because Jesus Christ is VERY interested in pfal. Mike knows because Jesus Christ told him so. Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it. When it was asked if he was serious (I was SURE it was a joke, myself) Mike confirmed he was serious and had seen Jesus Christ that way many times.
On the off-chance Mike no longer believes one of those, I asked, offering to give him a chance to correct the impression he's made. So far, he's gone out of his way to refuse to address any of that. A la vpw, that means he doesn't want to disavow any of it, but he finds it indefensible, so he's going to leave it alone, and prevaricate if necessary, then pretend he actually addressed the questions.
Aw, you spoiled the next routine! We were going to get some vague comments, and some question vaguely related to one or the other, and if someone answered, Mike was going to announce those like they were actual news. If nobody answered, Mike was going to announce that nobody was able to answer his questions- which still produces disinterest and rolled eyes around here.
---------------------------------------------
BTW, you've missed some of the best stuff. Mike promotes pfal so much because Jesus Christ is VERY interested in pfal. Mike knows because Jesus Christ told him so. Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it. When it was asked if he was serious (I was SURE it was a joke, myself) Mike confirmed he was serious and had seen Jesus Christ that way many times.
On the off-chance Mike no longer believes one of those, I asked, offering to give him a chance to correct the impression he's made. So far, he's gone out of his way to refuse to address any of that. A la vpw, that means he doesn't want to disavow any of it, but he finds it indefensible, so he's going to leave it alone, and prevaricate if necessary, then pretend he actually addressed the questions.
D'oh!!
I have dozens of questions out there Mike has still not answered.
Aw, you spoiled the next routine! We were going to get some vague comments, and some question vaguely related to one or the other, and if someone answered, Mike was going to announce those like they were actual news. If nobody answered, Mike was going to announce that nobody was able to answer his questions- which still produces disinterest and rolled eyes around here.
---------------------------------------------
BTW, you've missed some of the best stuff. Mike promotes pfal so much because Jesus Christ is VERY interested in pfal. Mike knows because Jesus Christ told him so. Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it. When it was asked if he was serious (I was SURE it was a joke, myself) Mike confirmed he was serious and had seen Jesus Christ that way many times.
On the off-chance Mike no longer believes one of those, I asked, offering to give him a chance to correct the impression he's made. So far, he's gone out of his way to refuse to address any of that. A la vpw, that means he doesn't want to disavow any of it, but he finds it indefensible, so he's going to leave it alone, and prevaricate if necessary, then pretend he actually addressed the questions.
Dang. I guess I never had the imagination to picture the return of Christ like Aladdin descending from the sky on a magic carpet with a glowing orange book in his hand that he is expounding from.
Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it.
4 hours ago, chockfull said:
Dang. I guess I never had the imagination to picture the return of Christ like Aladdin descending from the sky on a magic carpet with a glowing orange book in his hand that he is expounding from.
I never had the imagination either and that's coming from a guy who dosed psychadelics pretty hard in his late teens...lol
All joking aside...and I havent touched psychadelics in like 30 years or so...lmao...though this thread may cause me to expironment before it's over...j/k....anywho.
Man oh man. Mikey - where you at ole boy? Do you or do you not still believe this?
I never had the imagination either and that's coming from a guy who dosed psychadelics pretty hard in his late teens...lol
All joking aside...and I havent touched psychadelics in like 30 years or so...lmao...though this thread may cause me to expironment before it's over...j/k....anywho.
Man oh man. Mikey - where you at ole boy? Do you or do you not still believe this?
I find it amusing that after I effectively de-bunked your opening post, that the “absent Christ” teaching was so terrible, you run and hide under boos and hissing regarding OFF TOPIC items.
Had you and the others paid better attention to the good we received long ago about God's wisdom to hide the man Jesus’ flesh from us and cause this temporary absence, this humiliating retreat of yours would not be necessary.How did you feel when Raf, Oldiesman, and even Nathan_Jr supported my take on the absent Christ?
But instead of going back to PFAL to get it more right and more fully, you joined the focus on the things that went wrong in those days, on sin and shortcomings of humans.
LIKEWISE, had you and WW paid more attention to IDEAS what I write, you'd have noticed that the whole thing about my little dual with one poster long ago, over the Orange Book and Christ's being clarified by me, here, many months ago. You can search the archives for my explanantion.
Instead you focus on ways to try humiliate me. LoL If I were worried about looking bad to blind eyes, I'd have never stepped into this food fight.
I am only interested in proving that you folks know not what you criticize.
I succeed at this OFTEN here. I am constantly pointing out how you folks forgot MUCH from the good old days, and weren't mature enough enough to even understand some of the deep items we were taught.
You must have seen SOME good to sign up for the class and hang in there with the botched Craig Ministry.
I recognize your extreme handicap at having got in so late. I think I saw you mention it was like 1993?All you saw was Craig’s desparate moves then, and had little time to take many PFAL classes before it was dumped in 1995.How many times have you sat thru the entire class?Many of us in the good old days had over 20 sittings to learn from that class.You saw the worst of TWI, and very little of the original class.If there is any way you could like me to help you with this handicap, please feel free to let me know.
I find it amusing that after I effectively de-bunked your opening post, that the “absent Christ” teaching was so terrible, you run and hide under boos and hissing regarding OFF TOPIC items.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
I find it amusing that after I effectively de-bunked your opening post, that the “absent Christ” teaching was so terrible, you run and hide under boos and hissing regarding OFF TOPIC items.
Had you and the others paid better attention to the good we received long ago about God's wisdom to hide the man Jesus’ flesh from us and cause this temporary absence, this humiliating retreat of yours would not be necessary.How did you feel when Raf, Oldiesman, and even Nathan_Jr supported my take on the absent Christ?
But instead of going back to PFAL to get it more right and more fully, you joined the focus on the things that went wrong in those days, on sin and shortcomings of humans.
LIKEWISE, had you and WW paid more attention to IDEAS what I write, you'd have noticed that the whole thing about my little dual with one poster long ago, over the Orange Book and Christ's being clarified by me, here, many months ago. You can search the archives for my explanantion.
Instead you focus on ways to try humiliate me. LoL If I were worried about looking bad to blind eyes, I'd have never stepped into this food fight.
I am only interested in proving that you folks know not what you criticize.
I succeed at this OFTEN here. I am constantly pointing out how you folks forgot MUCH from the good old days, and weren't mature enough enough to even understand some of the deep items we were taught.
You must have seen SOME good to sign up for the class and hang in there with the botched Craig Ministry.
I recognize your extreme handicap at having got in so late. I think I saw you mention it was like 1993?All you saw was Craig’s desparate moves then, and had little time to take many PFAL classes before it was dumped in 1995.How many times have you sat thru the entire class?Many of us in the good old days had over 20 sittings to learn from that class.You saw the worst of TWI, and very little of the original class.If there is any way you could like me to help you with this handicap, please feel free to let me know.
Your delusions run deeper than I thought. Every man is right in his own eyes. Really, you haven't disproved or proved much of anything to anyone else's satisfation except your own. Your ramblings about how long I was involved in TWI remind me of endless genalogies that we are supposed to avoid. Jesus Christ is no longer flesh and blood according to scripture so why would God need to hide Jesus away? Put pflap down dude...it's scrambled your judgement.
Jesus Christ is no longer flesh and blood but a life giving spirit. Makes sense considering God gave holy spirit to Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost and it was Christ that poured it out.
1 Corinthians 15:45
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
which adds significant light to"
2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Obviously, victor paul wierwilles fleshly mind couldnt comprehend spiritual matters and still considered Jesus Christ a flesh and blood being forever more and the only thing that made sense to him was was he was physically absent.
or...
He understood perfectly well and purposely led people astray for his own lusts and greedy gain..
I'd say that ALMOST all of us have grown past black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking. I'd hoped, to some degree, I could say all of us have at least grown PARTLY past it, I thought about what one poster had posted once, about how, over the years, posters can change their positions, and about how it's not fair to criticize someone for maintaining a position that they no longer held. So, I opened a thread specifically to discuss changed positions. This would have been a more clear, dignified way for Mike to mention he'd changed some of his silliest positions of the past. Mike DUCKED the chance. He posted on the thread, but dodged addressing the point of the thread as it related to himself. He was fine mentioning others and them changing their stances. So, what's the clear meaning? Mike hadn't changed positions, and didn't want to draw attention to his old positions. That's understandable considering the actual positions.
WordWolf: "BTW, you've missed some of the best stuff. Mike promotes pfal so much because Jesus Christ is VERY interested in pfal. Mike knows because Jesus Christ told him so. Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it. When it was asked if he was serious (I was SURE it was a joke, myself) Mike confirmed he was serious and had seen Jesus Christ that way many times.
On the off-chance Mike no longer believes one of those, I asked, offering to give him a chance to correct the impression he's made. So far, he's gone out of his way to refuse to address any of that. A la vpw, that means he doesn't want to disavow any of it, but he finds it indefensible, so he's going to leave it alone, and prevaricate if necessary, then pretend he actually addressed the questions."
chockfull: "Dang. I guess I never had the imagination to picture the return of Christ like Aladdin descending from the sky on a magic carpet with a glowing orange book in his hand that he is expounding from. "
OldSkool: "I never had the imagination either and that's coming from a guy who dosed psychadelics pretty hard in his late teens...lol
All joking aside...and I havent touched psychadelics in like 30 years or so...lmao...though this thread may cause me to expironment before it's over...j/k....anywho.
Man oh man. Mikey - where you at ole boy? Do you or do you not still believe this?"
Now, if Mike runs true to form, Mike's "response" will be a dodge, a distraction, and a wall of text that doesn't address the questions at all, then later he'll pretend he answered, and send people for some buried post in the middle of someone else's thread.
======================
Mike: "I find it amusing that after I effectively de-bunked your opening post, that the “absent Christ” teaching was so terrible, you run and hide under boos and hissing regarding OFF TOPIC items.
Had you and the others paid better attention to the good we received long ago about God's wisdom to hide the man Jesus’ flesh from us and cause this temporary absence, this humiliating retreat of yours would not be necessary.How did you feel when Raf, Oldiesman, and even Nathan_Jr supported my take on the absent Christ?
But instead of going back to PFAL to get it more right and more fully, you joined the focus on the things that went wrong in those days, on sin and shortcomings of humans.
LIKEWISE, had you and WW paid more attention to IDEAS what I write, you'd have noticed that the whole thing about my little dual with one poster long ago, over the Orange Book and Christ's being clarified by me, here, many months ago. You can search the archives for my explanantion.
Instead you focus on ways to try humiliate me. LoL If I were worried about looking bad to blind eyes, I'd have never stepped into this food fight.
I am only interested in proving that you folks know not what you criticize.
I succeed at this OFTEN here. I am constantly pointing out how you folks forgot MUCH from the good old days, and weren't mature enough enough to even understand some of the deep items we were taught.
You must have seen SOME good to sign up for the class and hang in there with the botched Craig Ministry.
I recognize your extreme handicap at having got in so late. I think I saw you mention it was like 1993?All you saw was Craig’s desparate moves then, and had little time to take many PFAL classes before it was dumped in 1995.How many times have you sat thru the entire class?Many of us in the good old days had over 20 sittings to learn from that class.You saw the worst of TWI, and very little of the original class.If there is any way you could like me to help you with this handicap, please feel free to let me know."
-----------------------
Mike can't change his spots. He's still holding the most bizarre, indefensible ideas, and desperately wants to avoid discussion of any of them, let alone all of them. He's playing children's games with discussions, refusing to speak plainly, then has the nerve to drop his advertisements. Oh, yeah, Mike, after all that, you surely have enough credibility left that people will take you seriously.
Mike can't change his spots. He's still holding the most bizarre, indefensible ideas, and desperately wants to avoid discussion of any of them, let alone all of them. He's playing children's games with discussions, refusing to speak plainly, then has the nerve to drop his advertisements. Oh, yeah, Mike, after all that, you surely have enough credibility left that people will take you seriously.
True dat...Mike keeps trying to set up a straw man attack with me as the straw man instead of plainly answering the questions he so desperately avoids.
It's the consistent black-and-white and partly delusion-based thinking that keeps him from seeing what's obvious to other people. One example was one of his supposed "victories", where he was both RIGHT AND WRONG.
How can he be both right AND wrong? Well, under black-and-white thinking, it can't be done. To children and cult- type thinking, it can't be done. The adults here don't see much of a problem with it.
What was the conflict? People remembered vpw's pfal class as having an injunction from vpw to read the pfal books for 3 months. The actual tapes had vpw saying to read the Epistles for 3 months. Mike goes off celebrating, insisting it was ENTIRELY a matter of people MISREMEMBERING, and then follows with 3 pages on how pfal doesn't seem like a re-issued Bible primarily due to people MISREMEMBERING. While Mike was busy patting himself on the back, he missed the more significant matter. Why did so many people remember pfal saying that across decades and across states if it was just a faulty memory?
It wasn't simply a faulty memory. The taped class did not mention the pfal books- those books hadn't been printed yet, just a handful of pamphlets. After the pfal books were printed, the class wasn't retaped. Why, then, did people remember this? They remember because it was part of their class. Rather than refilm the entire thing to include that, vpw passed along instructions to class instructors to tell the new "grads" to read the pfal books for the next 3-6 months. That saved vpw a LOT of effort, and was a standard part of the classes for people who sat through them with a live coordinator. We know that wasn't just "the class coordinators going on their own" because vpw later addressed that very point. He complained that outsiders complained about his instruction to put down magazines and newspapers to only read pfal for 3 months. Rather than correct them for hearing wrong or imagining that, he doubled down on the instruction. Why would he do that if it wasn't in the class? He wouldn't- it was in the class, just not in the TAPE. That was the perfect time to correct anyone who'd heard it wrong, but he insisted it was correct to do so.
If Mike were approaching all of this in a more mature matter, he might find it an interesting avenue of discussion. But Mike isn't here for mature discussions of anything, even pfal. Mike is here to advertise his pfal-flavored delusion, and doesn't like that nobody's falling into his net. "In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird."
Mike's black-and-white thinking is also why he counts almost all the ex-twi splinter people as on his side....which is funny because, by his definitions, I'm on his side, but he's also specific that I personally am not on his side. So, simultaneously black AND white? No. It's either "He that is not for us is against us" or "He that is not against us is for us", and that usually covers black-and-white thinking.
If my words were as delusional as you describe, then y'all would not put hours into refuting them, and then when that fails, more hours into documenting my delusions from scattered past references. LoL
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Nathan_Jr
Ha!
If you try too hard to MAKE it fit, you'll strip the head.
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T-Bone
Screw job = wierwille “working” the Word
Snow job = wierwille selling his screw job
technical tip: before screwing up the text, drill a pilot hole first - so the screw goes in easier.
Edited by T-BoneDeTypos the power editor for craftsmen - or is that crafty men
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Nathan_Jr
I thought the Quaaludes made the screwing easier.
Guess I just didn't fully absorb it in my mind the first time.
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waysider
Some might say there were leaders who were "Lude fellows of the baser sort"
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T-Bone
like
fathercult-leader ,like
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waysider
Can you do that? I mean, if it came from God, it belongs to everyone.
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Nathan_Jr
To recap:
The Bible replaces the absent Nazarene?
Paul said ambassadors replace the Nazarene. Are ambassadors the Bible?
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T-Bone
If Christ is still absent in PFAL Today , you’ll need a note from the “Doctor” …and to clarify that’s a real note from a fake doctor.
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Nathan_Jr
Victor said the word replaces the absent Christ. He said the Bible is the word. The Bible can only ever be a translated version of copies of manuscripts. But the word is not a translation or a version. So the word cannot be the Bible as victor claimed.
His crawfishing and contradictions are problematic. But maybe the secret code to wash the brain is in Paul, a Jew's Jew. (Ironic because Victor despised Jews.) Paul said ambassadors replace the Nazarene. Are ambassadors the Bible? Or are ambassadors the word?
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chockfull
Sweetness. Mikes going for copyrighting the word IS. He’s not gonna repeat the same mistakes as his fodder in da verd.
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Nathan_Jr
The word IS is not in the text, like the word ONE is not in the text. I don't even need my notes to show this tremendous kernel of truth.
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WordWolf
Aw, you spoiled the next routine! We were going to get some vague comments, and some question vaguely related to one or the other, and if someone answered, Mike was going to announce those like they were actual news. If nobody answered, Mike was going to announce that nobody was able to answer his questions- which still produces disinterest and rolled eyes around here.
---------------------------------------------
BTW, you've missed some of the best stuff. Mike promotes pfal so much because Jesus Christ is VERY interested in pfal. Mike knows because Jesus Christ told him so. Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it. When it was asked if he was serious (I was SURE it was a joke, myself) Mike confirmed he was serious and had seen Jesus Christ that way many times.
On the off-chance Mike no longer believes one of those, I asked, offering to give him a chance to correct the impression he's made. So far, he's gone out of his way to refuse to address any of that. A la vpw, that means he doesn't want to disavow any of it, but he finds it indefensible, so he's going to leave it alone, and prevaricate if necessary, then pretend he actually addressed the questions.
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Nathan_Jr
D'oh!!
I have dozens of questions out there Mike has still not answered.
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Nathan_Jr
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chockfull
Dang. I guess I never had the imagination to picture the return of Christ like Aladdin descending from the sky on a magic carpet with a glowing orange book in his hand that he is expounding from.
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Nathan_Jr
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OldSkool
I never had the imagination either and that's coming from a guy who dosed psychadelics pretty hard in his late teens...lol
All joking aside...and I havent touched psychadelics in like 30 years or so...lmao...though this thread may cause me to expironment before it's over...j/k....anywho.
Man oh man. Mikey - where you at ole boy? Do you or do you not still believe this?
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Mike
I find it amusing that after I effectively de-bunked your opening post, that the “absent Christ” teaching was so terrible, you run and hide under boos and hissing regarding OFF TOPIC items.
Had you and the others paid better attention to the good we received long ago about God's wisdom to hide the man Jesus’ flesh from us and cause this temporary absence, this humiliating retreat of yours would not be necessary. How did you feel when Raf, Oldiesman, and even Nathan_Jr supported my take on the absent Christ?
But instead of going back to PFAL to get it more right and more fully, you joined the focus on the things that went wrong in those days, on sin and shortcomings of humans.
LIKEWISE, had you and WW paid more attention to IDEAS what I write, you'd have noticed that the whole thing about my little dual with one poster long ago, over the Orange Book and Christ's being clarified by me, here, many months ago. You can search the archives for my explanantion.
Instead you focus on ways to try humiliate me. LoL If I were worried about looking bad to blind eyes, I'd have never stepped into this food fight.
I am only interested in proving that you folks know not what you criticize.
I succeed at this OFTEN here. I am constantly pointing out how you folks forgot MUCH from the good old days, and weren't mature enough enough to even understand some of the deep items we were taught.
You must have seen SOME good to sign up for the class and hang in there with the botched Craig Ministry.
I recognize your extreme handicap at having got in so late. I think I saw you mention it was like 1993? All you saw was Craig’s desparate moves then, and had little time to take many PFAL classes before it was dumped in 1995. How many times have you sat thru the entire class? Many of us in the good old days had over 20 sittings to learn from that class. You saw the worst of TWI, and very little of the original class. If there is any way you could like me to help you with this handicap, please feel free to let me know.
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OldSkool
Your delusions run deeper than I thought. Every man is right in his own eyes. Really, you haven't disproved or proved much of anything to anyone else's satisfation except your own. Your ramblings about how long I was involved in TWI remind me of endless genalogies that we are supposed to avoid. Jesus Christ is no longer flesh and blood according to scripture so why would God need to hide Jesus away? Put pflap down dude...it's scrambled your judgement.
Jesus Christ is no longer flesh and blood but a life giving spirit. Makes sense considering God gave holy spirit to Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost and it was Christ that poured it out.
1 Corinthians 15:45
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
which adds significant light to"
2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Obviously, victor paul wierwilles fleshly mind couldnt comprehend spiritual matters and still considered Jesus Christ a flesh and blood being forever more and the only thing that made sense to him was was he was physically absent.
or...
He understood perfectly well and purposely led people astray for his own lusts and greedy gain..
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WordWolf
I'd say that ALMOST all of us have grown past black-and-white, all-or-nothing thinking. I'd hoped, to some degree, I could say all of us have at least grown PARTLY past it, I thought about what one poster had posted once, about how, over the years, posters can change their positions, and about how it's not fair to criticize someone for maintaining a position that they no longer held. So, I opened a thread specifically to discuss changed positions. This would have been a more clear, dignified way for Mike to mention he'd changed some of his silliest positions of the past. Mike DUCKED the chance. He posted on the thread, but dodged addressing the point of the thread as it related to himself. He was fine mentioning others and them changing their stances. So, what's the clear meaning? Mike hadn't changed positions, and didn't want to draw attention to his old positions. That's understandable considering the actual positions.
WordWolf: "BTW, you've missed some of the best stuff. Mike promotes pfal so much because Jesus Christ is VERY interested in pfal. Mike knows because Jesus Christ told him so. Mike has also said that when Jesus Christ returns, he will have a copy of the Orange Book in his hand and be teaching us from it. When it was asked if he was serious (I was SURE it was a joke, myself) Mike confirmed he was serious and had seen Jesus Christ that way many times.
On the off-chance Mike no longer believes one of those, I asked, offering to give him a chance to correct the impression he's made. So far, he's gone out of his way to refuse to address any of that. A la vpw, that means he doesn't want to disavow any of it, but he finds it indefensible, so he's going to leave it alone, and prevaricate if necessary, then pretend he actually addressed the questions."
chockfull: "Dang. I guess I never had the imagination to picture the return of Christ like Aladdin descending from the sky on a magic carpet with a glowing orange book in his hand that he is expounding from. "
OldSkool: "I never had the imagination either and that's coming from a guy who dosed psychadelics pretty hard in his late teens...lol
All joking aside...and I havent touched psychadelics in like 30 years or so...lmao...though this thread may cause me to expironment before it's over...j/k....anywho.
Man oh man. Mikey - where you at ole boy? Do you or do you not still believe this?"
Now, if Mike runs true to form, Mike's "response" will be a dodge, a distraction, and a wall of text that doesn't address the questions at all, then later he'll pretend he answered, and send people for some buried post in the middle of someone else's thread.
======================
Mike: "I find it amusing that after I effectively de-bunked your opening post, that the “absent Christ” teaching was so terrible, you run and hide under boos and hissing regarding OFF TOPIC items.
Had you and the others paid better attention to the good we received long ago about God's wisdom to hide the man Jesus’ flesh from us and cause this temporary absence, this humiliating retreat of yours would not be necessary. How did you feel when Raf, Oldiesman, and even Nathan_Jr supported my take on the absent Christ?
But instead of going back to PFAL to get it more right and more fully, you joined the focus on the things that went wrong in those days, on sin and shortcomings of humans.
LIKEWISE, had you and WW paid more attention to IDEAS what I write, you'd have noticed that the whole thing about my little dual with one poster long ago, over the Orange Book and Christ's being clarified by me, here, many months ago. You can search the archives for my explanantion.
Instead you focus on ways to try humiliate me. LoL If I were worried about looking bad to blind eyes, I'd have never stepped into this food fight.
I am only interested in proving that you folks know not what you criticize.
I succeed at this OFTEN here. I am constantly pointing out how you folks forgot MUCH from the good old days, and weren't mature enough enough to even understand some of the deep items we were taught.
You must have seen SOME good to sign up for the class and hang in there with the botched Craig Ministry.
I recognize your extreme handicap at having got in so late. I think I saw you mention it was like 1993? All you saw was Craig’s desparate moves then, and had little time to take many PFAL classes before it was dumped in 1995. How many times have you sat thru the entire class? Many of us in the good old days had over 20 sittings to learn from that class. You saw the worst of TWI, and very little of the original class. If there is any way you could like me to help you with this handicap, please feel free to let me know."
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Mike can't change his spots. He's still holding the most bizarre, indefensible ideas, and desperately wants to avoid discussion of any of them, let alone all of them. He's playing children's games with discussions, refusing to speak plainly, then has the nerve to drop his advertisements. Oh, yeah, Mike, after all that, you surely have enough credibility left that people will take you seriously.
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OldSkool
True dat...Mike keeps trying to set up a straw man attack with me as the straw man instead of plainly answering the questions he so desperately avoids.
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WordWolf
It's the consistent black-and-white and partly delusion-based thinking that keeps him from seeing what's obvious to other people. One example was one of his supposed "victories", where he was both RIGHT AND WRONG.
How can he be both right AND wrong? Well, under black-and-white thinking, it can't be done. To children and cult- type thinking, it can't be done. The adults here don't see much of a problem with it.
What was the conflict? People remembered vpw's pfal class as having an injunction from vpw to read the pfal books for 3 months. The actual tapes had vpw saying to read the Epistles for 3 months. Mike goes off celebrating, insisting it was ENTIRELY a matter of people MISREMEMBERING, and then follows with 3 pages on how pfal doesn't seem like a re-issued Bible primarily due to people MISREMEMBERING. While Mike was busy patting himself on the back, he missed the more significant matter. Why did so many people remember pfal saying that across decades and across states if it was just a faulty memory?
It wasn't simply a faulty memory. The taped class did not mention the pfal books- those books hadn't been printed yet, just a handful of pamphlets. After the pfal books were printed, the class wasn't retaped. Why, then, did people remember this? They remember because it was part of their class. Rather than refilm the entire thing to include that, vpw passed along instructions to class instructors to tell the new "grads" to read the pfal books for the next 3-6 months. That saved vpw a LOT of effort, and was a standard part of the classes for people who sat through them with a live coordinator. We know that wasn't just "the class coordinators going on their own" because vpw later addressed that very point. He complained that outsiders complained about his instruction to put down magazines and newspapers to only read pfal for 3 months. Rather than correct them for hearing wrong or imagining that, he doubled down on the instruction. Why would he do that if it wasn't in the class? He wouldn't- it was in the class, just not in the TAPE. That was the perfect time to correct anyone who'd heard it wrong, but he insisted it was correct to do so.
If Mike were approaching all of this in a more mature matter, he might find it an interesting avenue of discussion. But Mike isn't here for mature discussions of anything, even pfal. Mike is here to advertise his pfal-flavored delusion, and doesn't like that nobody's falling into his net. "In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird."
Mike's black-and-white thinking is also why he counts almost all the ex-twi splinter people as on his side....which is funny because, by his definitions, I'm on his side, but he's also specific that I personally am not on his side. So, simultaneously black AND white? No. It's either "He that is not for us is against us" or "He that is not against us is for us", and that usually covers black-and-white thinking.
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Mike
If my words were so delusional as you describe, then this thread would still be in About the Way for more people to see. LoL
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Mike
If my words were as delusional as you describe, then y'all would not put hours into refuting them, and then when that fails, more hours into documenting my delusions from scattered past references. LoL
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