OMSW has the same scriptural authority as The Far Side by Gary Lawson. Although, I did agree with a statement wierwille made and even acknowledged that he wasn't full of solid excrement all the time.
For me no for three reasons: 1. After taking the pfal class, I don't remember hearing the phrase, the Absent Christ, often enough for me to notice he was absent.
Thanks. That helps prove a point I have made, and from both angles. Absent was not emphasized, and seeking Jesus was emphasized.
It was in the TVTs and the Corps that the absent christ was exaggerated. John Lynn, in the late 80s and thru the 90s, talked about about busting this absent Christ TVT a lot, and his whole life was Corps.
No it wasn't. I learned about the absent Christ from classes and Craig Martindale who learned it from victor pig wierwille. It definitely wasn't from the way corps...
Just to clear something up: I don't "agree with Mike," per se. I see where Wierwille is coming from and submit that he has a point. Whether that point outweighs the points you guys raise in opposition to it is really up to each individual believer (or unbeliever) to decide (though believers are the only ones who have an actual stake in the answer). I decline to accept Mike as a frame of reference for my viewpoint here because I come to my point of view independent of his arguments.
That is: I see Wierwille's point because I believe there is evidence to support it. I accept that there is also evidence to contradict it, and I can live with those contradictions because I accept contradictions as an attribute of the scriptures.
Mike sees Wierwille's point because Wierwille can say the moon is made of green cheese and, as long as it was written in a PFAL collateral, Mike would accept it and dodge, distract, deny, etc if anyone told him it was objectively bulls hit.
Wierwille was a con man. He saw the absent Christ in the scriptures and exploited it for his own gain. He exploited LOTS of things he saw in the scriptures for his own gain. Why should the physical absence of Christ and the future hope of his presence be any different?
I accept that Mike and I are in agreement that there is a Biblical justification for the use of the term "absent Christ," but to say I "agree with Mike" is a bit misleading without the context that I still think he and Wierwille are absolutely full of solid excrement.
I challenge you to go back and discover the REAL REASON those so called "personal attacks" occured. HINT: it has nothing to do with your "EVIL WERE WILL" fantasy.
...Grease Spot Cafe is comprised of people from all walks of life. so not everyone has the same story and not everyone here was hurt by the way international. However, many of us have and I am one of them.
This sounds a lot more like the GreaseSpot of 20 years ago but not today.
I know that there are other forums here and other posters that focus away from About the Way.
Back then there were many more points of view BEING POSTED.
There were at least a hundred ACTIVE posters then in the big forum, About the Way.
The active posters now are few in number, usually well under 10, and more like 6 or 7 in About the Way. Their histories are almost all Corps and usually from TWI-2 and later.
This sounds a lot more like the GreaseSpot of 20 years ago but not today.
I know that there are other forums here and other posters that focus away from About the Way.
Back then there were many more points of view BEING POSTED.
There were at least a hundred ACTIVE posters then in the big forum, About the Way.
The active posters now are few in number, usually well under 10, and more like 6 or 7 in About the Way. Their histories are almost all Corps and usually from TWI-2 and later.
No it wasn't. I learned about the absent Christ from classes and Craig Martindale who learned it from victor pig wierwille. It definitely wasn't from the way corps...
There is no seperations of TWI, just a progression from one drunken rapist, to a successor serial adulterer to a granny R who spent lots of money covering them both up.
I am saying, just like Charity said, that in TWI-1 we were not taught to think "absent Christ" and it only came up once in the class, and then in that corresponding one spot in the book.
I did not hear "absent Christ" in the new class best of my memory. I want to check my notes on that and ask others, though.
Has anyone read the "TWI Articles" for this topic? I vaguely remember someone mentioning that. But I am getting tired. Nap time soon.
The churches in the Book of Revelation are the church of the bride that resumes after we are gone.
That is the best I understand that book. I am not in a hurry to tackle it deeper now. When I am ready it will be with other researchers who apply the same tools and attitudes I was taught.
now on If you have better, you are too late to save me with it. I locked into the PFAL perspective in 1998. I wanted then to stop searching and start far more disciplining my life to God's Word and His love, as He has led me to it, which was clearly PFAL.
1. You're locked into the pfal perspective. (no point therefore in replying to vp's errant "church of the bride" teaching)
2. You complain there's not enough variety in the points of view being posted on GSC. (and you seem to have a strong dislike for the ones here who do post their opinions)
3. You feel you are being victimized here.
So why are you here if not for the reasons Skyrider laid out in his post yesterday? Why don't you find somewhere else to post where it would be more satisfying to you?
Thanks. That helps prove a point I have made, and from both angles. Absent was not emphasized, and seeking Jesus was emphasized.
It was in the TVTs and the Corps that the absent christ was exaggerated. John Lynn, in the late 80s and thru the 90s, talked about about busting this absent Christ TVT a lot, and his whole life was Corps.
1. You're locked into the pfal perspective. (no point therefore in replying to vp's errant "church of the bride" teaching)
2. You complain there's not enough variety in the points of view being posted on GSC. (and you seem to have a strong dislike for the ones here who do post their opinions)
3. You feel you are being victimized here.
So why are you here if not for the reasons Skyrider laid out in his post yesterday? Why don't you find somewhere else to post where it would be more satisfying to you?
There are not other places to post. GreaseSpot is famous for free speech; I am a prime example. Most other grad sites do not allow much discussion. They are more like advertisements without the free speech passion. Now GSC is very much like an advertisement for the anti-idol, but it holds free speech higher. That is commendable in itself. Discussion was greatly needed 20 years ago.
GreaseSpot is large and as such can field lots of news from the whole set of grads out there. I first came to GreaseSpot for ministry new, myself. I was not a poster, just lurking and reading. I think there are lots of proPFAL readers of GreaseSpot still. They are loath to post because they see the treatment I get and they see the overblown negativity.
There are lots of reasons I came here; literally I was kidnapped here. Long story.
As to my victimization, it sounds like you don't read or take note of the large number of posts that are outrageously crude, even into the scatological. You seem to ignore the posts that are real attacks and have nothing to do with the exchange of opinions. Look at how I answered T-Bone on this. If you cant see the overt attacks and mockery then you are blind or just not paying attention.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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OldSkool
OMSW has the same scriptural authority as The Far Side by Gary Lawson. Although, I did agree with a statement wierwille made and even acknowledged that he wasn't full of solid excrement all the time.
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Mike
Thanks. That helps prove a point I have made, and from both angles. Absent was not emphasized, and seeking Jesus was emphasized.
It was in the TVTs and the Corps that the absent christ was exaggerated. John Lynn, in the late 80s and thru the 90s, talked about about busting this absent Christ TVT a lot, and his whole life was Corps.
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OldSkool
No it wasn't. I learned about the absent Christ from classes and Craig Martindale who learned it from victor pig wierwille. It definitely wasn't from the way corps...
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Mike
No offense taken; no surprise either.
I try to isolate your limited endorsement to this one issue, best I can.
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OldSkool
Which is a tried and true trolling tactic to involve a moderator and try to use their weight to endorse your point. Epic fail.
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Nathan_Jr
Will someone please translate or interpret $dang for me? (According to usage, literally, please.)
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So_crates
As I told you before:
Believing=Recieving
Expect people to make personal attacks and guess what happens.
You need to start applying your own bull.
No, I don't have your titanic ego warping my perceptions. We both know what happened to the Titanic, don't we?
I challenge you to go back and discover the REAL REASON those so called "personal attacks" occured. HINT: it has nothing to do with your "EVIL WERE WILL" fantasy.
Like you look at the evidence about Saint Vic, yet you pull your information from inattentive memory?
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Mike
This sounds a lot more like the GreaseSpot of 20 years ago but not today.
I know that there are other forums here and other posters that focus away from About the Way.
Back then there were many more points of view BEING POSTED.
There were at least a hundred ACTIVE posters then in the big forum, About the Way.
The active posters now are few in number, usually well under 10, and more like 6 or 7 in About the Way. Their histories are almost all Corps and usually from TWI-2 and later.
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Mike
I know. Raf and I go way back.
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Mike
I can agree with you there because I know the timing is deep within TWI-3.
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Charity
And yet here you are 20 years later.
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Mike
YES! Staying silent on the false criticisms. I really should get disciplined to just stamp "off topic" when another wants to merely talk about me.
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Mike
Ok, it wasn't from the film class or collaterals
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So_crates
And we'll use the off topic emoji when you try to derail a thread.
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OldSkool
There is no seperations of TWI, just a progression from one drunken rapist, to a successor serial adulterer to a granny R who spent lots of money covering them both up.
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OldSkool
So now you are denying that the way international teaches the absent Christ...which is it? You contradict yourself constantly.
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Mike
Well, I caught up with everyone's responses due them.
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OldSkool
It was in the classes. I don't know what prehistoric class you hold in such high regard to ignore reality.
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OldSkool
And you still havent handled the topic or provided much of substance...but hey neither have in the past few minutes....
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Mike
Almost caught up.
I am saying, just like Charity said, that in TWI-1 we were not taught to think "absent Christ" and it only came up once in the class, and then in that corresponding one spot in the book.
I did not hear "absent Christ" in the new class best of my memory. I want to check my notes on that and ask others, though.
Has anyone read the "TWI Articles" for this topic? I vaguely remember someone mentioning that. But I am getting tired. Nap time soon.
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Charity
1. You're locked into the pfal perspective. (no point therefore in replying to vp's errant "church of the bride" teaching)
2. You complain there's not enough variety in the points of view being posted on GSC. (and you seem to have a strong dislike for the ones here who do post their opinions)
3. You feel you are being victimized here.
So why are you here if not for the reasons Skyrider laid out in his post yesterday? Why don't you find somewhere else to post where it would be more satisfying to you?
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Charity
Boy you are devious. Did you not read points 2 & 3? Did I mention anything about "seeking Jesus" being emphasized. It was quite the opposite.
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Mike
There are not other places to post. GreaseSpot is famous for free speech; I am a prime example. Most other grad sites do not allow much discussion. They are more like advertisements without the free speech passion. Now GSC is very much like an advertisement for the anti-idol, but it holds free speech higher. That is commendable in itself. Discussion was greatly needed 20 years ago.
GreaseSpot is large and as such can field lots of news from the whole set of grads out there. I first came to GreaseSpot for ministry new, myself. I was not a poster, just lurking and reading. I think there are lots of proPFAL readers of GreaseSpot still. They are loath to post because they see the treatment I get and they see the overblown negativity.
There are lots of reasons I came here; literally I was kidnapped here. Long story.
As to my victimization, it sounds like you don't read or take note of the large number of posts that are outrageously crude, even into the scatological. You seem to ignore the posts that are real attacks and have nothing to do with the exchange of opinions. Look at how I answered T-Bone on this. If you cant see the overt attacks and mockery then you are blind or just not paying attention.
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So_crates
Nobody kidnapped you, you came of your own free will.
As you tell that long story, you felt you were being misrepresented.
So the guy always whining about being misrepresented misrepresents the truth. It has to make one wonder how many other "truths" you misrepresent.
See, I told the story and didn't need a 50 paragraph essay.
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