To those interested, here is a website https://thewaymagazine.com/the-daysman/ showing an article about the daysman posted on May 27, 2020 by the Way. At the bottom of the article, it says ,"This is a reprint from the March/April 2009 issue of The Way Magazine."
It's very similar to the article Mike posted including the Job and 1 Timothy verses but adds a couple extra verses as well. This one however gives credit to how Bishop Pillai explains the daysman in his book, "Light through an Eastern Window" where the other one didn't.
I figured it was probably from Pillai’s work - TWI drew a lot in his stuff - I remember that from taking their Orientalisms class with Bo R.
And not that there’s anything wrong with Pillai’s work - maybe it’s just me comparing the work of J Walton and M Heiser to Pillai ; I think Pillai produced explanations more palatable to Christians ; whereas The Cultural Backgrounds Bible (Walton) and M Heiser in his studies of Demons, Angels, Divine Council include other aspects of the ancient cultures - which the Hebrew religion did not ignore but they made certain to portray their God as supreme over all the other deities.
on the idiom of permission thread in doctrinal I shared some stuff from the Cultural Backgrounds Bible - that gets into this different worldview - -the ancient culture worldviews (plural actually) - the writers of the Bible didn’t ignore other cultures around them - they often did a little revising - to portray their God as way above and over all other deities.
That was my thinking in using the Cultural Backgrounds Bible note to argue that a theme of Job 9 seems to be we feeble little humans need someone MORE than human to arbitrate with a divine being of such magnitude as God Almighty - - such as the divine Son of God Almighty.
Hey, what's a couple thousand year gap between cultures got to do with anything?
Nothing, unless you beleeve it does.
Kinda like what happens behind the closed doors of a motor coach. It only matters if you beleeve it does. This was handled in the AC Q&A session.
Anyway, I've got a folder full of 3x5 cards on the subject. When I have time, which I don't right now because I'm typing this reply, I'll compile the notes and write a rough draft. Of course, that will require time - something I just don't have.
Kinda like what happens behind the closed doors of a motor coach. It only matters if you beleeve it does. This was handled in the AC Q&A session.
Anyway, I've got a folder full of 3x5 cards on the subject. When I have time, which I don't right now because I'm typing this reply, I'll compile the notes and write a rough draft. Of course, that will require time - something I just don't have.
OK....definately later....I gotta skyscraper with dirty windows and in between my other facebook groups and running my atom smasher...well...ya....
And not that there’s anything wrong with Pillai’s work - maybe it’s just me comparing the work of J Walton and M Heiser to Pillai ; I think Pillai produced explanations more palatable to Christians ; whereas The Cultural Backgrounds Bible (Walton) and M Heiser in his studies of Demons, Angels, Divine Council include other aspects of the ancient cultures - which the Hebrew religion did not ignore but they made certain to portray their God as supreme over all the other deities.
Pillai's alright....I think what you said about him in comparison to other's and being palatable to Christians is right on. He's not the authority the way international says he is but his contributions are cool at times.
We have seen that Jesus Christ, when he left his earthly ministry of teaching, healing, preaching, etc., was given a greater office of mediator and defender of those who need forgiveness from God. But have the jobs he used to do been left undone? God forbid. II Corinthians 5:20 says: “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ. ...” From the context of verses 18-21 , we see that our ambassadorship is tied in with reconciliation which the ascended Christ is accomplishing for us every time we need it.
I may be stating the obvious here but since Mike is sharing this article to teach us all what Christ is doing up there in the heavenlies, I want to point out the following:
In the sentence above, the article is trying to tie our reconciling the world to God through Christ with Christ reconciling us every time we need it.The author may be using verse 20 to support this idea but since the idea is wrong, it doesn’t need any verse to support it.Christ is not reconciling us back to God every time we need it because we have been reconciled to God through Christ once and for all when we were saved.
17Therefore, if anyone is in (union with Christ), the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: (which is)
19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
Looking at verses 17-18, Paul is talking about the believers having the new creation and having been reconciled by God to himself.So the end of verse 20 cannot be addressing Christians.
“We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God”is the appeal God wants the world to hear and accept through us as Christ’s ambassadors.This appeal also includes the truth in verse 21.
21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
This is all knowledge that's been taught for decades. It's good knowledge, but having 2-way communications between the Head (Christ) and his members (us) as a human body does and the book of Acts reveals, is not included. I guess it's not one of the things Jesus Christ is doing up there.
Right. We are not instructed to have that kind of a prayer relationship with Jesus, nor do we have examples of it. Jesus prayed to the Father and taught us to do the same.
The only 2-way conversations we see in the Scriptures with the post-Ascension Jesus participating in are unusual events, initiated by God and look to be either unique "re-visits" or Godly constructed projections (visions), that were not at all part of everyday life.
I think this is what a lot of people are seeking, who have rejected the relationship of ambassador that God has provided for us with the Ascension.
People want the "feel" that he is not absent, not hidden, not personally present, and a 2 way conversation is pretty close to that kind of a feel.
People who refuse to see God's plan, that it involves taking Jesus away from such "personal presence" relationships, will then construct counterfeit relationships, with make-believe 2-way communications with Jesus.
People who don't like God's plan can circumvent it by just dialing Jesus direct... and getting a wrong number.
I will wait for God to provide the real deal with Jesus personal presence in the near future.
he only 2-way conversations we see in the Scriptures with the post-Ascension Jesus participating in are unusual events, initiated by God and look to be either unique "re-visits" or Godly constructed projections (visions), that were not at all part of everyday life.
I think this is what a lot of people are seeking, who have rejected the relationship of ambassador that God has provided for us with the Ascension.
People want the "feel" that he is not absent, not hidden, not personally present, and a 2 way conversation is pretty close to that kind of a feel.
People who refuse to see God's plan, that it involves taking Jesus away from such "personal presence" relationships, will then construct counterfeit relationships, with make-believe 2-way communications with Jesus.
People who don't like God's plan can circumvent it by just dialing Jesus direct... and getting a wrong number.
I will wait for God to provide the real deal with Jesus personal presence in the near future.
What a bunch of pontificating bull-$hit
Only from the mind of Mike who is incapable of distinguishing fact from fiction, truth from lies
seems like he prefers to endorse wierwille’s absent Christ theology to a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ…oh well…his loss…but he must be happy acting as wierwille’s proxy high priest to provide a spiritual status report about everyone.
People who refuse to see God's plan, that it involves taking Jesus away from such "personal presence" relationships, will then construct counterfeit relationships, with make-believe 2-way communications with Jesus.
I can only imagine how you see God’s plan. From the logic of all your other posts it probably involves a senile, weak, forgetful and sin-tolerant imaginary god like the one wierwille promoted. Maybe you’re projecting that counterfeit construct onto others.
Right. We are not instructed to have that kind of a prayer relationship with Jesus, nor do we have examples of it. Jesus prayed to the Father and taught us to do the same.
On the contrary observe the quadruple principle in John 14,15, and 16…it’s the Father > the Son > the Holy Spirit > you…and given the truth that God set this “flow” it could also be you > the Holy Spirit > the Son > the Father. But this is merely my linear thinking as a finite being stuck in a specific space-time continuum -who can say how God works all this stuff out - certainly not me, you , wierwille or anyone else.
to summarize: YOU have ZERO Scripture to back up your limited view of a prayer relationship- and I limited myself to just 3 entire chapters of John to support the quadruple principle .
I know I have issues - but not with a delusional disorder…I’ve sought professional mental health help, have meds and therapies…so no sore spot here…I’m just satisfied with how it’s going and thought you -and the rest of the Hive-Mike-Collective that YOU suggested on another post - might find helpful - and they might have group rates.
IT guys know cool stuff like checking the IP addresses and server routes - but Shingles doesn’t care…honey badgers don’t give a damn
Edited by T-Bone Hilarious clarity on Super Bowl of Cereals
No, you are evasive, poking and prodding a conflict.
Some might think you are the one being an agitator, a provocateur.
I spent a lot of time on this thread. in its early pages.
Yes, I am now looking at some loose ends that have come up, and not trying to engage in extended sub-topics that I have no interest in.
Sorry I don't submit to everyone's desire put me through their mini-inquisitions.
Sorry that I disagree with the majority.
Your nasty descriptions of me are not counted in my mulling over the ideas we are supposed to be discussing. They just tell me you have run out of material on the topic(s).
I have seen a few grads go off the deep end carrying on conversations with Jesus in front of others to show off their tight relationship. You think I've got mental problems? LoL
I have seen MANY Christians live in denial of the Ascension, and fumble around with ways to pretend that it didn't really happen.
We are supposed to WAIT for that personal presence, when God makes it happen, and we have no guidance to make that personal presence happen now, even privately. We do have Paul's life and epistles to teach us the proper kind of relationship with Jesus and with the Father that is available now.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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T-Bone
I figured it was probably from Pillai’s work - TWI drew a lot in his stuff - I remember that from taking their Orientalisms class with Bo R.
And not that there’s anything wrong with Pillai’s work - maybe it’s just me comparing the work of J Walton and M Heiser to Pillai ; I think Pillai produced explanations more palatable to Christians ; whereas The Cultural Backgrounds Bible (Walton) and M Heiser in his studies of Demons, Angels, Divine Council include other aspects of the ancient cultures - which the Hebrew religion did not ignore but they made certain to portray their God as supreme over all the other deities.
on the idiom of permission thread in doctrinal I shared some stuff from the Cultural Backgrounds Bible - that gets into this different worldview - -the ancient culture worldviews (plural actually) - the writers of the Bible didn’t ignore other cultures around them - they often did a little revising - to portray their God as way above and over all other deities.
That was my thinking in using the Cultural Backgrounds Bible note to argue that a theme of Job 9 seems to be we feeble little humans need someone MORE than human to arbitrate with a divine being of such magnitude as God Almighty - - such as the divine Son of God Almighty.
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Nathan_Jr
Nothing, unless you beleeve it does.
Kinda like what happens behind the closed doors of a motor coach. It only matters if you beleeve it does. This was handled in the AC Q&A session.
Anyway, I've got a folder full of 3x5 cards on the subject. When I have time, which I don't right now because I'm typing this reply, I'll compile the notes and write a rough draft. Of course, that will require time - something I just don't have.
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Bolshevik
Witnesses come in clouds, too.
Unless they were nebulized and sprayed into the air.
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OldSkool
OK....definately later....I gotta skyscraper with dirty windows and in between my other facebook groups and running my atom smasher...well...ya....
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OldSkool
Pillai's alright....I think what you said about him in comparison to other's and being palatable to Christians is right on. He's not the authority the way international says he is but his contributions are cool at times.
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Charity
I may be stating the obvious here but since Mike is sharing this article to teach us all what Christ is doing up there in the heavenlies, I want to point out the following:
In the sentence above, the article is trying to tie our reconciling the world to God through Christ with Christ reconciling us every time we need it. The author may be using verse 20 to support this idea but since the idea is wrong, it doesn’t need any verse to support it. Christ is not reconciling us back to God every time we need it because we have been reconciled to God through Christ once and for all when we were saved.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in (union with Christ), the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: (which is)
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.
Looking at verses 17-18, Paul is talking about the believers having the new creation and having been reconciled by God to himself. So the end of verse 20 cannot be addressing Christians.
“We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God” is the appeal God wants the world to hear and accept through us as Christ’s ambassadors. This appeal also includes the truth in verse 21.
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Easy as falling off a log
.
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Mike
Right. We are not instructed to have that kind of a prayer relationship with Jesus, nor do we have examples of it. Jesus prayed to the Father and taught us to do the same.
The only 2-way conversations we see in the Scriptures with the post-Ascension Jesus participating in are unusual events, initiated by God and look to be either unique "re-visits" or Godly constructed projections (visions), that were not at all part of everyday life.
I think this is what a lot of people are seeking, who have rejected the relationship of ambassador that God has provided for us with the Ascension.
People want the "feel" that he is not absent, not hidden, not personally present, and a 2 way conversation is pretty close to that kind of a feel.
People who refuse to see God's plan, that it involves taking Jesus away from such "personal presence" relationships, will then construct counterfeit relationships, with make-believe 2-way communications with Jesus.
People who don't like God's plan can circumvent it by just dialing Jesus direct... and getting a wrong number.
I will wait for God to provide the real deal with Jesus personal presence in the near future.
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T-Bone
Merely interpolations on your part
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T-Bone
What a bunch of pontificating bull-$hit
Only from the mind of Mike who is incapable of distinguishing fact from fiction, truth from lies
seems like he prefers to endorse wierwille’s absent Christ theology to a genuine relationship with Jesus Christ…oh well…his loss…but he must be happy acting as wierwille’s proxy high priest to provide a spiritual status report about everyone.
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T-Bone
I can only imagine how you see God’s plan. From the logic of all your other posts it probably involves a senile, weak, forgetful and sin-tolerant imaginary god like the one wierwille promoted. Maybe you’re projecting that counterfeit construct onto others.
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T-Bone
Just a suggestion but you might find a real deal in a licensed mental health provider for help with a Delusional Disorder
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Mike
It looks like I hit a sore spot.
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T-Bone
On the contrary observe the quadruple principle in John 14,15, and 16…it’s the Father > the Son > the Holy Spirit > you…and given the truth that God set this “flow” it could also be you > the Holy Spirit > the Son > the Father. But this is merely my linear thinking as a finite being stuck in a specific space-time continuum -who can say how God works all this stuff out - certainly not me, you , wierwille or anyone else.
to summarize: YOU have ZERO Scripture to back up your limited view of a prayer relationship- and I limited myself to just 3 entire chapters of John to support the quadruple principle .
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T-Bone
I know I have issues - but not with a delusional disorder…I’ve sought professional mental health help, have meds and therapies…so no sore spot here…I’m just satisfied with how it’s going and thought you -and the rest of the Hive-Mike-Collective that YOU suggested on another post - might find helpful - and they might have group rates.
IT guys know cool stuff like checking the IP addresses and server routes - but Shingles doesn’t care…honey badgers don’t give a damn
Edited by T-BoneHilarious clarity on Super Bowl of Cereals
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Rocky
A friendly reminder.
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T-Bone
Thanks for the reminder - that’s one of my issues - I forget stuff
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skyrider
No, you are evasive, poking and prodding a conflict.
Some might think you are the one being an agitator, a provocateur.
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Rocky
Some? Pretty much everyone here.
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So_crates
So, God has all knowedge, right?
Then why would He need JC present to intercede for us?
He is also everywhere, right?
So, why would JC have to be at his right hand to intercede?
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Mike
I spent a lot of time on this thread. in its early pages.
Yes, I am now looking at some loose ends that have come up, and not trying to engage in extended sub-topics that I have no interest in.
Sorry I don't submit to everyone's desire put me through their mini-inquisitions.
Sorry that I disagree with the majority.
Your nasty descriptions of me are not counted in my mulling over the ideas we are supposed to be discussing. They just tell me you have run out of material on the topic(s).
I have seen a few grads go off the deep end carrying on conversations with Jesus in front of others to show off their tight relationship. You think I've got mental problems? LoL
I have seen MANY Christians live in denial of the Ascension, and fumble around with ways to pretend that it didn't really happen.
We are supposed to WAIT for that personal presence, when God makes it happen, and we have no guidance to make that personal presence happen now, even privately. We do have Paul's life and epistles to teach us the proper kind of relationship with Jesus and with the Father that is available now.
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Bolshevik
Apparently the Orthodox Bible had books added to it.
The Protestants removed books from the Bible.
The Catholics didn't have a list hand by God to decide which books to include. So one criteria they provided was the text must be widespread.
Anyway, the Bible didn't always exist.
Wierwille’s Truth versus Tradition argument makes no sense.
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So_crates
There goes your be!ieving again.
So, tell me, when a master's degree student has to defend their thesis are they put through a mini-inquisitions?
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Bolshevik
It was tradition that guided the formation of the Bible in the first place. Did a text follow what the Churches were already practicing?
There were many many texts. Some that were probably just fine weren't included.
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Nathan_Jr
I think there was a bookcase or a cloak or something that contained the list of texts to canonize... maybe even a folder with a rough draft.
There's good reason why vpw was afraid to talk about canon.
There's a thread on this topic. It has a circular shape.
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