That truly unbelievable snake up wierwille’s a$$ just switched things up again
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)
It is good to keep diligent track of what you know for sure from what you don't know for sure.
If there is an abundance of items in the "Sure" bin, that in itself should be cause for self-examination.
It is also good to monitor what really thrills you, what occupies a major part of your life's focus. If it isn't in Paul's list of suggestions, another check-up from the neck up might be in order.
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
I don't think that includes building and maintaining an anti-idol.
You off your meds or something?
For those reading this is classic TWI bullying tactics in action. Try and stifle the truth by saying it isn't on Godly to point out negatives in others lives. Strange that only applies to wierwille, mikes idol. Because they never apply that logic to people that don't tow the line. Those types are marked and avoided and labelled posessed.
Just what in the actual eff is an anti-idol anyway. You talking about Jesus Christ?
An anti-idol is what someone "loves to hate," and that love is greater than or competes with their love for the True God.
An anti-idol is very similar to, or is a variation of a regular idol that is loved, except the worship of an anti-idol is like worship in a "Bizzarro Superman Comic." An anti-idol is worshiped by expressions of hate and the reasons for that hate.
The anti-idol constantly being built and maintained by many here is VPW.
That is, VPW distorted into the Epitome of Pure Evil, who was always out of fellowship, and never obeyed God, and never blessed His people.
It is grotesquely cartoon-like to those not numbed to it by constant daily, hourly repetition.
Those grads who were intensely blessed by VPW and who get a glimpse of this anti-idol, and those who promote it here, see all this as deluded to the height of insanity.... kinda like how you think of me.
An anti-idol is what someone "loves to hate," and that love is greater than or competes with their love for the True God.
An anti-idol is very similar to, or is a variation of a regular idol that is loved, except the worship of an anti-idol is like worship in a "Bizzarro Superman Comic." An anti-idol is worshiped by expressions of hate and the reasons for that hate.
The anti-idol constantly being built and maintained by many here is VPW.
That is, VPW distorted into the Epitome of Pure Evil, who was always out of fellowship, and never obeyed God, and never blessed His people.
It is grotesquely cartoon-like to those not numbed to it by constant daily, hourly repetition.
Those grads who were intensely blessed by VPW and who get a glimpse of this anti-idol, and those who promote it here, see all this as deluded to the height of insanity.... kinda like how you think of me.
That's a wierd way to describe the truth. VPW was a fake.
An anti-idol is what someone "loves to hate," and that love is greater than or competes with their love for the True God.
An anti-idol is very similar to, or is a variation of a regular idol that is loved, except the worship of an anti-idol is like worship in a "Bizzarro Superman Comic." An anti-idol is worshiped by expressions of hate and the reasons for that hate.
The anti-idol constantly being built and maintained by many here is VPW.
That is, VPW distorted into the Epitome of Pure Evil, who was always out of fellowship, and never obeyed God, and never blessed His people.
It is grotesquely cartoon-like to those not numbed to it by constant daily, hourly repetition.
Those grads who were intensely blessed by VPW and who get a glimpse of this anti-idol, and those who promote it here, see all this as deluded to the height of insanity.... kinda like how you think of me.
That's a lot of words to say it's some senseless bull$#!+ You made up.
That truly unbelievable snake up wierwille’s a$$ just switched things up again
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)
For the benefit of newcomers to Grease Spot Café – and to the dismay of old timers – lest you forget ( you've got to suffer if you want to sing the Grease Spotter's Blues ) I’m recycling some bull-$hit analytics from a couple of threads ( here) and(here )where Mike used his own standards for re-defining anything – known as the great Mike principle and it goes something like this:
wierwille can only communicate what he is, which is bull-$hit.
PFAL puts wierwille’s ‘creation’ in you, which is now your bull-$hit.
That bull-$hit fvcks up your cognitive skills and becomes manifested in cyberspace as you post.
Our art department has the following diagram to illustrate the great Mike principle:
not sure how to interpret this – maybe expert trollers have more ballz to string along more fish?
~ ~ ~ ~
Anyway, as promised here be dah select items from 2 other threads… basically re-threads
Hey Mike, the English language is calling…wants its words back
You’re like a bull-Shonta in a glass dictionary
FYI - don't take it personally Mike - I've got nothing against you - it's that damn idol you're protecting.
~ ~ ~ ~
Let’s decode Mike’s mishmash dictionary:
Anti = a PREPOSITION - opposed to; against.
Idol = a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered
what a goofball! again with the redefinitions! oy vey!
~ ~ ~ ~
Consider me being in the anti-idol group please
Jonah 2:8 Those who cling to worthless idols turn away from God’s love for them.
Galatians 5:19-21 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
I John 5:21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.
~ ~ ~ ~
Psalm 97:10 Hate evil, you who love the Lord,
Psalm 119:104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore, I hate every false way.
Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates falsehood, But a wicked man acts disgustingly and shamefully
Romans 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
I'm proud to be in the idol-haters group
well... if you're promoting wierwille / PFAL as someone / something to be greatly admired, loved, or revered - you're asking for trouble anyway. you're an idol-representative...an idol-salesman
You’re so funny Mike - you make no sense whether you're promoting a nonsensical "thesis" or trying to sell folks on your favorite idols - wierwille and PFAL
That's a wierd way to describe the truth. VPW was a fake.
No one who's life was changed for the better by his ministry believes he was a fake, because he delivered the goods.
To those who expected him to be their perfect idea of a holy man, he was definitely NOT what they wanted.
But to those who received great truths and the ability to find more truths from PFAL are grateful to God for his walk, when he walked with God.
I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify.
Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure.
Focus on his new man nature and he was a success.
The same holds for you and me.
When we walk in fellowship we are able to do wonderful things for people. When we walk out of fellowship, God covers for us the best He can, and waits for us to walk with Him again.
No one who's life was changed for the better by his ministry believes he was a fake, because he delivered the goods.
Oh boy, my life was changed for the better by his ministry, but the way international is built on a stack of lies propagated by wierwille. Because there was improvement doesn't excuse the evil's. My life is the best now that I dropped my idolization of a false prophet and turned to Christ, you can keep your better.
It is good to keep diligent track of what you know for sure from what you don't know for sure.
If there is an abundance of items in the "Sure" bin, that in itself should be cause for self-examination.
It is also good to monitor what really thrills you, what occupies a major part of your life's focus. If it isn't in Paul's list of suggestions, another check-up from the neck up might be in order.
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.
I don't think that includes building and maintaining an anti-idol.
No one who's life was changed for the better by his ministry believes he was a fake, because he delivered the goods.
Yah, all three of you on this forum as opposed to the 18,000 he failed.
5 hours ago, Mike said:
To those who expected him to be their perfect idea of a holy man, he was definitely NOT what they wanted.
But to those who received great truths and the ability to find more truths from PFAL are grateful to God for his walk, when he walked with God.
So tell me, when he was roofing the ministry's women, the sheep in his flock which God entrusted to him, was he walking with God?
5 hours ago, Mike said:
I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify.
And Hitler took a bankrupt, failed state and took it within a whisker of world domination. Think of the jobs he created; the prosperity the people experienced. However, there was that Holocaust thing. But he did so much good...
5 hours ago, Mike said:
Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure.
Focus on his new man nature and he was a success.
Saint Vic was a failure either way, as he never showed his new man nature.
5 hours ago, Mike said:
The same holds for you and me.
When we walk in fellowship we are able to do wonderful things for people. When we walk out of fellowship, God covers for us the best He can, and waits for us to walk with Him again.
So tell me, when you idolize Saint Vic are you walking in your new man nature? Really?! Who gets the glory? You? Or God?
TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. That testimony is scattered about, but I am collecting it as I find it in my history folder
So, during this period growth, what was the ministry promising the people?
I can't tell you how many times I heard, Wait until you see the life God has planned for you, and God will give you your heart's desire. Well, I'll be 68 in July (I got involved with the ministry when I was 28) and I have yet to see that great life God planned or recieved my heart's desire.
I know of at least one wheelchair bound person who was told if he took the class he would walk. It turned out pretty much lie you would guess it would and the ministry was sued.
Saint Vic himself promised sign, miracles, and wonder. "Signs, miracles, and wonders follow the Man of God the way a tail foliws a dog," he said. What did we get instead?
If thing seem slow in the ministry, it's because romises are probably monitored to prevent lawsuits and people are a bit more jaded these days.
Promising is easy, producing--well, that's something else.
No one who's life was changed for the better by his ministry believes he was a fake, because he delivered the goods.[/quote]
It's like a fish extolling the virtues of the line because of how delicious the BAIT was.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
To those who expected him to be their perfect idea of a holy man, he was definitely NOT what they wanted.[/quote]
False dilemna. Nobody expected that. Nobody expects it now. Nobody complains vpw wasn't perfect. We complain he was a plagiarizing rapist whose "ministry" was built on genuine Christians upon whose work a fraud propped himself. HE was a fake, and that's not what we wanted, nor what we were told at the time.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
But to those who received great truths and the ability to find more truths from PFAL are grateful to God for his walk, when he walked with God.
For those of us able to distinguish the bait from the hook, the appeal of "come back to pfal" just isn't going to snag us. If there were any "great truths", it wasn't because vpw was legit, it was because vpw needed the legit to bait the hook. My God is not that small that I have to fall for that con to receive truths or blessings.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify.
Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure.
Focus on his new man nature and he was a success.[/quote]
That's something you just refuse to see, which is how you lose everyone else. He talked a good talk, and recited the work of others. That didn't mean he had it. It's a lot like adoration of your tape recorder because you heard some teachings and the content blessed you. The entire ministry was a blind that covered his "old-man nature" and on his end was about what he could get- he was a chain-smoking alcoholic who molested and raped women whenever he could- and he set up an ELABORATE network to ensure that he could- from places to rape them to ways to select targets to ways to separate them through people to watch them in case they were ready to talk, and vilify them and destroy their reputation if it looked like they WERE going to talk.
You see all that as a small part of vpw's ministry. We see that as vpw's own contribution to the works of others- Christians whom he plagiarized, legit Christians he recruited.
[quote The same holds for you and me.
When we walk in fellowship we are able to do wonderful things for people. When we walk out of fellowship, God covers for us the best He can, and waits for us to walk with Him again.
In an absolute sense, sin is sin. From the view on the ground, it's very insulting to compare the types of sin you might encounter here- flashes of anger, moments of bad judgement, seeking God through false idols presented as preachers- and serial rapists using God's Word as their cover, and God's People as their merchandise. If I ever sin at the level the plagiarizing rapist did, may the villagers hang me or burn me at the stake before I make as many victims as he did.
" I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism.
I often try to UN-BLUR the differences."
Mike, I think you're the only one you're successfully conning that you have anything in common with professional journalists. Your standards are anything BUT objective, and you're rather PROUD you have one standard for vpw and one standard for everyone else. That's NOT objective. Also, making up terms just to hang them on people who disagree with you isn't journalism.
"TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. "
You can't get the differences because you refuse to look at them. twi circa 1971 was vpw reeling in all the House of Acts Jesus People, and sending them out on the road. People saw legit Christians- the Jesus People- and were told (by naive Jesus People who didn't MEAN to lie but were genuinely mistaken) that there was a connection between what people saw and twi, vpw, pfal.
There was not.
The twi growth all stems from THOSE people.
What was vpw's "contribution" to this?
Mostly the labels of twi, pfal, himself, and the Corps elitism he slowly dropped on them. The Corps elitism didn't suddenly arrive in 1982. vpw set it up, inflicted it on lcm, and inflicted it on Jesus People and on people they recruited.
twi circa 1982 was the result of twi 1971-1981, and THAT was the result of what vpw had made it.
Anyone who can't see that isn't looking. History doesn't drop out of the sky, it happens every day.
I fail to see any great benefit in compartmentalizing and differentiating varied timeframes beyond the simple process and value of historical documentation. There is a common thread of deception and abuse that runs through it all, from the very beginning to the present day.
That's because you can see how history progresses. To someone looking to exonerate those who set the stage, history is something that happened all at once, with nothing leading to it.
Mike: It is good to keep diligent track of what you know for sure from what you don't know for sure.
Nate: I doubt it. I don't keep track. I don't need to. It wouldn't help. It's a silly waste of time. (I already have plenty of silly time-wasting pastimes.) The problem is tracking the unknown unknowns.
There are things I know that I know - known knowns. There are things that I know I don't know - known unknowns. And then there are things that I don't know that I don't know - unknown unknowns.
How do you track the unknown unknowns? You can't. That's how. H - O - W
For the benefit of newcomers to Grease Spot Café – and to the dismay of old timers – lest you forget....It's a good thing the folks at home have you to clue them in. Otherwise ... ah um... never mind.
*/*/*/*/*
Hey Mike, the English language is calling…wants its words back...Let’s decode Mike’s mishmash dictionary:
Anti = a PREPOSITION - opposed to; against.
Idol = a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered
what a goofball! again with the redefinitions! oy vey! ~ ~ ~ ~ Lucky for me, it will be easy to change the term "anti-idol" so that it connects better with the folks at home. Can you give me some suggestions?
I chose "anti" with the thought of anti-matter in Physics in my mind. I also had an "antichrist" association in there.
The thing that is genuine "anti" in my proposed new term (Trademark Pending) is the reversal of excessive-love to excessive-hate.
My theory is that most of the people who are very anti-wierwille now WERE very pro-wierwille when first taking the class. Finding out that VPW was not the holy man they idolized at first caused them to "snap" against him with with the same zeal as when they positively idolized him.
It was a rush to idolize him and join the Corps early, and then a rush to anti-idolize him. In both rushes, there wasn't time to really sort things out properly.
This was the opening of my thread "Jumping to Concussions..." a few months ago. I am willing to change the term I came up with if someone can think of a better one.
The only reasons I have this theory are:
(1) because in the 1970s I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in “going ga-ga” over VPW, going WOW, and going into the Corps. I thought they went without thinking it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of love and excitement. I was slow with this; they were fast.
(2) because from 1986 till now, I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in being enraged over VPW’s revealed sins, going ape over throwing away all he ever said did regardless of its truth value. I think few think it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of anger and unnecessary emotion. I go slow with this.
GreaseSpotters who are able to set aside this “anti-idol” will have a chance at earning some respect from TWI-4 people.
GreaseSpotters who are able to set aside this “anti-idol” can have a lot more credibility with all grads who have left TWI over the decades.
The good that came from PFAL and TWI-1 was far greater than the bad, and GreaseSpotters who can’t integrate this in their world-view will continue to have a terrible reputation with grads out there.Have you ever researched around with old grads to find out what they think of GreaseSpot?
That's because you can see how history progresses. To someone looking to exonerate those who set the stage, history is something that happened all at once, with nothing leading to it.
Mike: It is good to keep diligent track of what you know for sure from what you don't know for sure.
Nate: I doubt it. I don't keep track. I don't need to. It wouldn't help. It's a silly waste of time. (I already have plenty of silly time-wasting pastimes.) The problem is tracking the unknown unknowns.
There are things I know that I know - known knowns. There are things that I know I don't know - known unknowns. And then there are things that I don't know that I don't know - unknown unknowns.
How do you track the unknown unknowns? You can't. That's how. H - O - W
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
427
271
423
257
Popular Days
Feb 14
142
Oct 13
105
Jan 18
101
Oct 8
88
Top Posters In This Topic
Mike 427 posts
T-Bone 271 posts
OldSkool 423 posts
Nathan_Jr 257 posts
Popular Days
Feb 14 2023
142 posts
Oct 13 2022
105 posts
Jan 18 2023
101 posts
Oct 8 2022
88 posts
Popular Posts
OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
Posted Images
T-Bone
unholy bull-$hit, Batman !
That truly unbelievable snake up wierwille’s a$$ just switched things up again
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)
Edited by T-BoneOops e days e
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
I marvel your still stuck on the same hamster wheel for 50 years now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
You off your meds or something?
For those reading this is classic TWI bullying tactics in action. Try and stifle the truth by saying it isn't on Godly to point out negatives in others lives. Strange that only applies to wierwille, mikes idol. Because they never apply that logic to people that don't tow the line. Those types are marked and avoided and labelled posessed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Just what in the actual eff is an anti-idol anyway. You talking about Jesus Christ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
An anti-idol is what someone "loves to hate," and that love is greater than or competes with their love for the True God.
An anti-idol is very similar to, or is a variation of a regular idol that is loved, except the worship of an anti-idol is like worship in a "Bizzarro Superman Comic." An anti-idol is worshiped by expressions of hate and the reasons for that hate.
The anti-idol constantly being built and maintained by many here is VPW.
That is, VPW distorted into the Epitome of Pure Evil, who was always out of fellowship, and never obeyed God, and never blessed His people.
It is grotesquely cartoon-like to those not numbed to it by constant daily, hourly repetition.
Those grads who were intensely blessed by VPW and who get a glimpse of this anti-idol, and those who promote it here, see all this as deluded to the height of insanity.... kinda like how you think of me.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
That's a wierd way to describe the truth. VPW was a fake.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Well old chum, it looks like there’s at least one Grease Spotter who takes the place of the absent wierwille.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
That's a lot of words to say it's some senseless bull$#!+ You made up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Step 1. All the Xs are the same.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
For the benefit of newcomers to Grease Spot Café – and to the dismay of old timers – lest you forget ( you've got to suffer if you want to sing the Grease Spotter's Blues
) I’m recycling some bull-$hit analytics from a couple of threads ( here ) and ( here ) where Mike used his own standards for re-defining anything – known as the great Mike principle and it goes something like this:
wierwille can only communicate what he is, which is bull-$hit.
PFAL puts wierwille’s ‘creation’ in you, which is now your bull-$hit.
That bull-$hit fvcks up your cognitive skills and becomes manifested in cyberspace as you post.
Our art department has the following diagram to illustrate the great Mike principle:
not sure how to interpret this – maybe expert trollers have more ballz to string along more fish?
~ ~ ~ ~
Anyway, as promised here be dah select items from 2 other threads… basically re-threads
Hey Mike, the English language is calling…wants its words back
You’re like a bull-Shonta in a glass dictionary
FYI - don't take it personally Mike - I've got nothing against you - it's that damn idol you're protecting.
~ ~ ~ ~
Let’s decode Mike’s mishmash dictionary:
Anti = a PREPOSITION - opposed to; against.
Idol = a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered
what a goofball! again with the redefinitions! oy vey!
~ ~ ~ ~
Consider me being in the anti-idol group please
Jonah 2:8 Those who cling to worthless idols turn away from God’s love for them.
Galatians 5:19-21 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
I John 5:21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.
~ ~ ~ ~
Psalm 97:10 Hate evil, you who love the Lord,
Psalm 119:104 From Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore, I hate every false way.
Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates falsehood, But a wicked man acts disgustingly and shamefully
Romans 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
I'm proud to be in the idol-haters group
well... if you're promoting wierwille / PFAL as someone / something to be greatly admired, loved, or revered - you're asking for trouble anyway. you're an idol-representative...an idol-salesman
You’re so funny Mike - you make no sense whether you're promoting a nonsensical "thesis" or trying to sell folks on your favorite idols - wierwille and PFAL
You’re so funny...and unconvincing
but your persistence is something else
I'm sure your posts will get tens of views
~ ~ ~ ~
title for the collateral that comes with Mike's class The Absence of Good Sense.
Once you’re a seasoned grad you can take the standalone session The Abscess of Nonsense
Edited by T-Bonefrom GREAT to not so great
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
No one who's life was changed for the better by his ministry believes he was a fake, because he delivered the goods.
To those who expected him to be their perfect idea of a holy man, he was definitely NOT what they wanted.
But to those who received great truths and the ability to find more truths from PFAL are grateful to God for his walk, when he walked with God.
I think his old-man nature was completely contrary to what he really was and what he did when he was in fellowship. When he was in fellowship he did great things for us. THAT is what I prefer to focus on and magnify.
Focus on his old man nature and he was a failure.
Focus on his new man nature and he was a success.
The same holds for you and me.
When we walk in fellowship we are able to do wonderful things for people. When we walk out of fellowship, God covers for us the best He can, and waits for us to walk with Him again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Oh boy, my life was changed for the better by his ministry, but the way international is built on a stack of lies propagated by wierwille. Because there was improvement doesn't excuse the evil's. My life is the best now that I dropped my idolization of a false prophet and turned to Christ, you can keep your better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Yah, all three of you on this forum as opposed to the 18,000 he failed.
So tell me, when he was roofing the ministry's women, the sheep in his flock which God entrusted to him, was he walking with God?
And Hitler took a bankrupt, failed state and took it within a whisker of world domination. Think of the jobs he created; the prosperity the people experienced. However, there was that Holocaust thing. But he did so much good...
Saint Vic was a failure either way, as he never showed his new man nature.
So tell me, when you idolize Saint Vic are you walking in your new man nature? Really?! Who gets the glory? You? Or God?
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
So, during this period growth, what was the ministry promising the people?
I can't tell you how many times I heard, Wait until you see the life God has planned for you, and God will give you your heart's desire. Well, I'll be 68 in July (I got involved with the ministry when I was 28) and I have yet to see that great life God planned or recieved my heart's desire.
I know of at least one wheelchair bound person who was told if he took the class he would walk. It turned out pretty much lie you would guess it would and the ministry was sued.
Saint Vic himself promised sign, miracles, and wonder. "Signs, miracles, and wonders follow the Man of God the way a tail foliws a dog," he said. What did we get instead?
If thing seem slow in the ministry, it's because romises are probably monitored to prevent lawsuits and people are a bit more jaded these days.
Promising is easy, producing--well, that's something else.
Edited by So_cratesLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
It's like a fish extolling the virtues of the line because of how delicious the BAIT was.
False dilemna. Nobody expected that. Nobody expects it now. Nobody complains vpw wasn't perfect. We complain he was a plagiarizing rapist whose "ministry" was built on genuine Christians upon whose work a fraud propped himself. HE was a fake, and that's not what we wanted, nor what we were told at the time.
For those of us able to distinguish the bait from the hook, the appeal of "come back to pfal" just isn't going to snag us. If there were any "great truths", it wasn't because vpw was legit, it was because vpw needed the legit to bait the hook. My God is not that small that I have to fall for that con to receive truths or blessings.
In an absolute sense, sin is sin. From the view on the ground, it's very insulting to compare the types of sin you might encounter here- flashes of anger, moments of bad judgement, seeking God through false idols presented as preachers- and serial rapists using God's Word as their cover, and God's People as their merchandise. If I ever sin at the level the plagiarizing rapist did, may the villagers hang me or burn me at the stake before I make as many victims as he did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
" I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism.
I often try to UN-BLUR the differences."
Mike, I think you're the only one you're successfully conning that you have anything in common with professional journalists. Your standards are anything BUT objective, and you're rather PROUD you have one standard for vpw and one standard for everyone else. That's NOT objective. Also, making up terms just to hang them on people who disagree with you isn't journalism.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
"TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. "
You can't get the differences because you refuse to look at them. twi circa 1971 was vpw reeling in all the House of Acts Jesus People, and sending them out on the road. People saw legit Christians- the Jesus People- and were told (by naive Jesus People who didn't MEAN to lie but were genuinely mistaken) that there was a connection between what people saw and twi, vpw, pfal.
There was not.
The twi growth all stems from THOSE people.
What was vpw's "contribution" to this?
Mostly the labels of twi, pfal, himself, and the Corps elitism he slowly dropped on them. The Corps elitism didn't suddenly arrive in 1982. vpw set it up, inflicted it on lcm, and inflicted it on Jesus People and on people they recruited.
twi circa 1982 was the result of twi 1971-1981, and THAT was the result of what vpw had made it.
Anyone who can't see that isn't looking. History doesn't drop out of the sky, it happens every day.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
That's because you can see how history progresses. To someone looking to exonerate those who set the stage, history is something that happened all at once, with nothing leading to it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Mike: It is good to keep diligent track of what you know for sure from what you don't know for sure.
Nate: I doubt it. I don't keep track. I don't need to. It wouldn't help. It's a silly waste of time. (I already have plenty of silly time-wasting pastimes.) The problem is tracking the unknown unknowns.
There are things I know that I know - known knowns. There are things that I know I don't know - known unknowns. And then there are things that I don't know that I don't know - unknown unknowns.
How do you track the unknown unknowns? You can't. That's how. H - O - W
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
Edited by MikeLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Teleological viewpoint?
Teleological narrative?
Perfectionist talk. Utopian thinking. IMO
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Donut-Cruller Diet?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
If Jesus had a cat in a box it be both present and not present.
This paradox is commonly known as Jesus's Cat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.