In The Way yeah I know they quoted Matthew and then anytime someone had a disagreement they held a Bible so they could better explain why YOU are the problem. Love ya, no condemnation, renew your mind.
Barbaric.
But why would that conclusion to behave that way outside TWI be drawn? Unless the mentally ill were running the show.
I had a feeling wierwille plagiarized his marriage counseling techniques from somewhere...and in his typical classic move he changed it up a little - the woman had one arm tied behind her back while fighting from inside a pit and the man had the sack filled with rocks.
No but what's the Bible got to do with conflict resolution is a serious question
I don't know, but I do know it is used as a source of great conflict and division. I never really knew that the Bible could be used for those things until I took "the class."
I don't know, but I do know it is used as a source of great conflict and division. I never really knew that the Bible could be used for those things until I took "the class."
Well I think some of the belly button stuff is about politics. You know the Roman Empire and thousands of years of history. There is always a reason behind the reason behind the reason . . . Pointing at a book and saying, "different interpretations, guess we have to fight now" . . .kinda suspect
Also, if Satan knocks on the door, stack Bibles against it.
I don't know, but I do know it is used as a source of great conflict and division. I never really knew that the Bible could be used for those things until I took "the class."
Henry VIII, Defender of the Faith, broke from Rome. Over different interpretations of the Bible. About marriage.
Interpretations of the Bible. . . . Or his wife was getting old and that wasn't good enough for a King. Interesting there isn't differing interpretations until there is first a NEED for different interpretations? Not saying it's all congruent in the first place, but it's initially not an issue, until it is.
The Word takes the place of the Absent Christ because Victor Paul Wierwille takes place of God in the follower's mind. The Word is Jesus Christ. Christ is God. A book made by people or God is not God. If you'll accept The Word is the Bible, you'll eventually accept anything or anyone in place of God.
God is omnipresent, Christ is God, therefore Christ is omnipresent. Christ ascended. He left. He's here and not here.
Is that a contradiction, or basic human psychology? A person can be here and not here. God can be said to not be with a group and still he is omnipresent.
Why was Christ sent here in the first place? If he's omnipresent and was there in the beginning how was he never here to begin with?
For starters, this is God. Second, this was an act of love. The Bible even says that. God is love. God is in the midst.
I think in there is the ideas for the foundations of the concept of the individual and why we have free speech. But that is politics. We don't discuss that.
No but what's the Bible got to do with conflict resolution is a serious question
Looking back at the Old Testament, God had an entire culture setup on the Torah/Mosaic Law. Moving into Christianity there are plenty of directives given in scripture that Christians are to follow. Does everyone have the same intrepretation? No. Does that change whats written? No. Wierwille tried to keep us enthralled to his TV Dinner version of fake Christianity.
So what does it take? Folks to agree to live whats written. Becausse many can't make it work or make it fit doesn't make God any less capable to give us his ways to live by. Ive found that most scripture is pretty straight forward and easy to understand as written. I still do my best to live according to scripture. Many directives come straight out the Church epistles. Because wierille had a bastardized version doesnt mean he gets to overthrow my trust in God with his error and that did happen for a while. But I have rebounded better than ever. Ive found that cutting all the organizations out the way and keeping my relationship with God/Christ a personal matter with no oversight by cult leaders the best way to go.
Looking back at the Old Testament, God had an entire culture setup on the Torah/Mosaic Law. Moving into Christianity there are plenty of directives given in scripture that Christians are to follow. Does everyone have the same intrepretation? No. Does that change whats written? No. Wierwille tried to keep us enthralled to his TV Dinner version of fake Christianity.
So what does it take? Folks to agree to live whats written. Becausse many can't make it work or make it fit doesn't make God any less capable to give us his ways to live by. Ive found that most scripture is pretty straight forward and easy to understand as written. I still do my best to live according to scripture. Many directives come straight out the Church epistles. Because wierille had a bastardized version doesnt mean he gets to overthrow my trust in God with his error and that did happen for a while. But I have rebounded better than ever. Ive found that cutting all the organizations out the way and keeping my relationship with God/Christ a personal matter with no oversight by cult leaders the best way to go.
The Law was distilled to two commandments. Easy peasy.
If The Word is Christ, how can a book contain that? Think John mentions that. So where is The Word actually written? Maybe it was taken too literal.
TWI put a huge emphasis on focusing on a book. I think that is the blinders.
TWI put a huge emphasis on focusing on a book. I think that is the blinders.
I agree. Scripture has a lot of directives and such but scripture points to God/Jesus Christ and a relationship with them. Not to worship a book in a circular type fashion. It confuses the heck outta things.
I agree. Scripture has a lot of directives and such but scripture points to God/Jesus Christ and a relationship with them. Not to worship a book in a circular type fashion. It confuses the heck outta things.
Yes - and in general I think relationships are a big priority with God / Jesus Christ; In Matthew 5 Jesus recommended active reconciliation over any “religious “ obligations:
23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
I had a feeling wierwille plagiarized his marriage counseling techniques from somewhere...and in his typical classic move he changed it up a little - the woman had one arm tied behind her back while fighting from inside a pit and the man had the sack filled with rocks.
Wierwille died eons ago.
What I witnessed from a short height was something else.
(I occasionally attempt to engage with men 30-50 years my senior on this topic, not just in TWI. . . . It's a curiosity to me the world of difference)
Wierwille died eons ago. ... What I witnessed from a short height was something else. ...(I occasionally attempt to engage with men 30-50 years my senior on this topic, not just in TWI. . . . It's a curiosity to me the world of difference)
This is wise!
There are great differences that are important to know, but are blurred here. I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism.
I often try to UN-BLUR the differences.
TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. That testimony is scattered about, but I am collecting it as I find it in my history folder.
TWI-1 was vastly different from TWI-2 !!!
I marvel at what was missed by those who's first class was in TWI-2 !
I marvel at what was missed by those who's first class was the Craig Clone Class !
How did people stick with TWI-2 should totally elude me! Except for what I know from experience about God working with SOME individuals on the field at that time, there could be no way.
*/*/*/*
This wisdom to look into the differences is encouraging to me.
I fail to see any great benefit in compartmentalizing and differentiating varied timeframes beyond the simple process and value of historical documentation. There is a common thread of deception and abuse that runs through it all, from the very beginning to the present day.
I fail to see any great benefit in compartmentalizing and differentiating varied timeframes beyond the simple process and value of historical documentation. There is a common thread of deception and abuse that runs through it all, from the very beginning to the present day.
That is a PERFECT example of the blurring I talked about in order to build and maintain the anti-idol theme here.
There are great differences that are important to know, but are blurred here. I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Bolshevik
*slams Bible on ground. . . Steps onto it*
I'm standing on the W-O-R-D . . Clap your hands
Staning on da word, using it as a measuring stick? H-O-W?
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Bolshevik
No but what's the Bible got to do with conflict resolution is a serious question
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Nathan_Jr
And no one to teach it. The Teacher was still hundreds of years away in the future.
God was unable and unwilling to teach anyone anything during the medieval period. This, according to The Teacher.
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Bolshevik
Dark times make good nursery rhymes
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Bolshevik
In The Way yeah I know they quoted Matthew and then anytime someone had a disagreement they held a Bible so they could better explain why YOU are the problem. Love ya, no condemnation, renew your mind.
Barbaric.
But why would that conclusion to behave that way outside TWI be drawn? Unless the mentally ill were running the show.
It's a book. Not a person.
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waysider
You know what killed that cat?
It got tangled up in red drapes and strangled itself
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Bolshevik
*burns drapes*
VPW needed to make behaviors equivalent. Point to imperfections, invert the scenario, then exalt himself. Boom. New reality.
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T-Bone
Well I’ll be damned !
I had a feeling wierwille plagiarized his marriage counseling techniques from somewhere...and in his typical classic move he changed it up a little - the woman had one arm tied behind her back while fighting from inside a pit and the man had the sack filled with rocks.
Edited by T-Bonejust to change it up
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Nathan_Jr
I don't know, but I do know it is used as a source of great conflict and division. I never really knew that the Bible could be used for those things until I took "the class."
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Bolshevik
Well I think some of the belly button stuff is about politics. You know the Roman Empire and thousands of years of history. There is always a reason behind the reason behind the reason . . . Pointing at a book and saying, "different interpretations, guess we have to fight now" . . .kinda suspect
Also, if Satan knocks on the door, stack Bibles against it.
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Bolshevik
Henry VIII, Defender of the Faith, broke from Rome. Over different interpretations of the Bible. About marriage.
Interpretations of the Bible. . . . Or his wife was getting old and that wasn't good enough for a King. Interesting there isn't differing interpretations until there is first a NEED for different interpretations? Not saying it's all congruent in the first place, but it's initially not an issue, until it is.
The Word takes the place of the Absent Christ because Victor Paul Wierwille takes place of God in the follower's mind. The Word is Jesus Christ. Christ is God. A book made by people or God is not God. If you'll accept The Word is the Bible, you'll eventually accept anything or anyone in place of God.
God is omnipresent, Christ is God, therefore Christ is omnipresent. Christ ascended. He left. He's here and not here.
Is that a contradiction, or basic human psychology? A person can be here and not here. God can be said to not be with a group and still he is omnipresent.
Why was Christ sent here in the first place? If he's omnipresent and was there in the beginning how was he never here to begin with?
For starters, this is God. Second, this was an act of love. The Bible even says that. God is love. God is in the midst.
I think in there is the ideas for the foundations of the concept of the individual and why we have free speech. But that is politics. We don't discuss that.
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OldSkool
Looking back at the Old Testament, God had an entire culture setup on the Torah/Mosaic Law. Moving into Christianity there are plenty of directives given in scripture that Christians are to follow. Does everyone have the same intrepretation? No. Does that change whats written? No. Wierwille tried to keep us enthralled to his TV Dinner version of fake Christianity.
So what does it take? Folks to agree to live whats written. Becausse many can't make it work or make it fit doesn't make God any less capable to give us his ways to live by. Ive found that most scripture is pretty straight forward and easy to understand as written. I still do my best to live according to scripture. Many directives come straight out the Church epistles. Because wierille had a bastardized version doesnt mean he gets to overthrow my trust in God with his error and that did happen for a while. But I have rebounded better than ever. Ive found that cutting all the organizations out the way and keeping my relationship with God/Christ a personal matter with no oversight by cult leaders the best way to go.
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Bolshevik
The Law was distilled to two commandments. Easy peasy.
If The Word is Christ, how can a book contain that? Think John mentions that. So where is The Word actually written? Maybe it was taken too literal.
TWI put a huge emphasis on focusing on a book. I think that is the blinders.
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OldSkool
I agree. Scripture has a lot of directives and such but scripture points to God/Jesus Christ and a relationship with them. Not to worship a book in a circular type fashion. It confuses the heck outta things.
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T-Bone
Yes - and in general I think relationships are a big priority with God / Jesus Christ; In Matthew 5 Jesus recommended active reconciliation over any “religious “ obligations:
23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
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Bolshevik
Wierwille died eons ago.
What I witnessed from a short height was something else.
(I occasionally attempt to engage with men 30-50 years my senior on this topic, not just in TWI. . . . It's a curiosity to me the world of difference)
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waysider
That would include me and several others here, if that helps at all.
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Mike
This is wise!
There are great differences that are important to know, but are blurred here. I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism.
I often try to UN-BLUR the differences.
TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. That testimony is scattered about, but I am collecting it as I find it in my history folder.
TWI-1 was vastly different from TWI-2 !!!
I marvel at what was missed by those who's first class was in TWI-2 !
I marvel at what was missed by those who's first class was the Craig Clone Class !
How did people stick with TWI-2 should totally elude me! Except for what I know from experience about God working with SOME individuals on the field at that time, there could be no way.
*/*/*/*
This wisdom to look into the differences is encouraging to me.
Edited by MikeLink to comment
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waysider
I fail to see any great benefit in compartmentalizing and differentiating varied timeframes beyond the simple process and value of historical documentation. There is a common thread of deception and abuse that runs through it all, from the very beginning to the present day.
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Mike
That is a PERFECT example of the blurring I talked about in order to build and maintain the anti-idol theme here.
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Mike
Maintain that curiosity, in spite of the DILIGENT blurring that takes place here. You just saw it in action!
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T-Bone
Edited by T-BoneTypos Bold As LOVE
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Bolshevik
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Nathan_Jr
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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