All right I’m speculating here. I think he went along with the trinity topic for a long time as a pastor. He states this.
Then at a certain point he reached critical mass with the ecumenical Bible center at the Way because people and their money went back to their churches after taking his stolen class.
So he delved into conspiracy theory, and got controversial with edge case views in JCNG and ADAN. And drove them home so hard that he ended up teaching in his Adv class that all heads of Christian denominations are seed of the serpent men. Oh and what is that anyway? Something else new?
Destination : Gillian’s Island at the Way
Thats where it ends up a splinter off of the ship of the family faith.
And bondage and damage and Pharisee clutches within clutches in the group.
I think that's a fair speculation.
If only he could have believed big enough to live long enough, he would have....
I don’t ever mean to drive everyone into a tizzy with stuff I share. I like the freedom we have on a non-religious site - I don’t feel like I have to kowtow to a particular theology.
My wife and I differ on our SIT experiences - and we don’t make it or a lot of other topics a dealbreaker. I have a Roman Catholic background and she was raised southern Baptist. Prayer and how we each think of God and relate to God is deeply personal…unique…indescribable. I’m perfectly happy that our top priority is no longer TWI’s agenda but our family!
I don’t ever mean to drive everyone into a tizzy with stuff I share. I like the freedom we have on a non-religious site - I don’t feel like I have to kowtow to a particular theology.
My wife and I differ on our SIT experiences - and we don’t make it or a lot of other topics a dealbreaker. I have a Roman Catholic background and she was raised southern Baptist. Prayer and how we each think of God and relate to God is deeply personal…unique…indescribable. I’m perfectly happy that our top priority is no longer TWI’s agenda but our family!
Love your perspectives. Compromise is the harmony of life, and it flows much easier outside of a fundamentalist extreme viewpoint.
Love your perspectives. Compromise is the harmony of life, and it flows much easier outside of a fundamentalist extreme viewpoint.
It seems to me compromise is not always necessary for harmony, but compassionate listening and tolerance is. I don't expect anyone here to compromise their convictions or beliefs, but I hope everyone can truly listen to one another and find common ground while accepting the differences. And I have, indeed, encountered this compassion with everybody here, except one.
I never witnessed such smug contempt for literally EVERYONE, until I started going to PFLAP fellowship. Judgement and condemnation were the eggshells on which all dared to walk. I have never known such a hateful group of people wearing such fake masks of love.
"Connection with my Lord" is such a personal and beautiful statement. It's bringing tears to my eyes (happy ones this time). I so much want to be able to say those words from my heart - I know I'm getting there. Regarding the topic of SIT, I'm sure there must be a forum on this which I'll check out at a later date but while reading the book of John this morning, this verse came up: "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." John 4:23 We were taught this meant SIT. Without going into detail since I'll be checking for a forum, do you still believe this teaching is accurate?
We had some fascinating discussions on the subject of "speaking in tongues" a few years back. We discussed the physical actions we were taught, what the Bible says on the subject, and whether or not those were the same thing.
Personally, I NOW think they were never the same thing. (I changed positions as the discussion unfolded.) I think that the SIT in the Bible may exist somewhere, but I haven't seen it because what I've seen doesn't match the Bible but only matches what I was told the Bible MEANT. In twi, a number of verses that don't mention "speaking in tongues" are allegedly about it. In hindsight, I'm wondering why God Almighty got so coy if they're really the same thing ( " something something in the spirit" and "speaking in tongues.") There's no verse that says "speaking in tongues, that is to say, something-something in the spirit" or equivalent. I know He didn't have to speak to my modern mind, but that's something necessary, if such an important subject is what I was told it was.
None of this affects my faith or my prayer life- I can pray just fine "with my understanding" and get miraculous results "with my understanding". I also don't go around sneering at Christians who think the modern SIT is the Biblical one. What would that serve? For that matter, I don't sneer at people with various positions on the Trinity (for example) for the same reason- so what? God's honoring our prayers equally, so it looks a lot like He's making them non-issues.
It seems to me compromise is not always necessary for harmony, but compassionate listening and tolerance is. I don't expect anyone here to compromise their convictions or beliefs, but I hope everyone can truly listen to one another and find common ground while accepting the differences. And I have, indeed, encountered this compassion with everybody here, except one.
I never witnessed such smug contempt for literally EVERYONE, until I started going to PFLAP fellowship. Judgement and condemnation were the eggshells on which all dared to walk. I have never known such a hateful group of people wearing such fake masks of love.
Thank God for GSC.
It's a completely different world, post-twi. It's a completely different Christianity, post-twi. And the other Christians are often not the fools we were told they were. Agreeing to disagree when there's an INEVITABLE difference leads to a life with a LOT less stress.
I don’t ever mean to drive everyone into a tizzy with stuff I share. I like the freedom we have on a non-religious site - I don’t feel like I have to kowtow to a particular theology.
My wife and I differ on our SIT experiences - and we don’t make it or a lot of other topics a dealbreaker. I have a Roman Catholic background and she was raised southern Baptist. Prayer and how we each think of God and relate to God is deeply personal…unique…indescribable. I’m perfectly happy that our top priority is no longer TWI’s agenda but our family!
It's a completely different world, post-twi. It's a completely different Christianity, post-twi. And the other Christians are often not the fools we were told they were. Agreeing to disagree when there's an INEVITABLE difference leads to a life with a LOT less stress.
Yes in the world we live in tolerance and acceptance more illuminates the path than hard core stances.
With compromise, to me, like in a marriage, that means being ok with having diverse viewpoints on topics, allowing others the freedom to see things their way, and not being such an a hole with a corncob stuck up the butt looking down my nose at other Christians. Like I was taught to do in the PFAL series. People blame the Way Corps but that was just a Stanford prison experiment with free time to study collaterals.
Here’s my history with TW.Sorry, it’s a bit long.I took the class in 1974 and went WOW in 1975.That year was a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly.I was 19 and had never lived away from home before. We were a family of 6 (3 guys and 3 girls), but 2 left.One of them was a friend who I went to grade school with and who lived down the street from me growing up.He had a mental breakdown on the field and then continued to struggle for a few more years after that.I’d meet up with him at times once I returned back home and often he was making no sense when talking about God and other stuff – it was like his brain was fried. As far as I knew he was never like that before going WOW.
I did like my WOW family and enjoyed the fellowships, teaching the Word and to some degree, even witnessing.I wanted to stay on the straight and narrow and not return to old bad habits and to help me do so, I developed an eating disorder (which I have had to deal with off and on ever since). It was also very upsetting when I couldn’t go home for a visit when I heard that my mom had left my dad.
Although I felt proud when I finished the year and received my WOW pin, to be honest, it wasn’t just "my commitment and love for God" that kept me on the field.It was also because I wanted to see my boyfriend again at the Rock of Ages (a WOW ambassador I had started to date before going WOW ).However, that's when I found out that he had hooked up with someone during his Corps year.I left the ministry shortly after returning home and was doing alright until I began to miss the fellowship of believers so I moved to another city to get back into “the Word.”
During that year, the Corps leader on his interim year approached me and yadda, yadda, yadda, I got off the straight and narrow path, became pregnant, refused his suggestion to have an abortion and later had a beautiful baby boy.He was sent immediately to some faraway place in Canada, and I had no further contact with him until a few emails decades later.
In 1978, I took the advanced class and married a fellow believer six months after we met based on the way’s teaching that any two believers, even with very little else in common, would have a successful marriage as long as they stood on the word.We had a quick honeymoon and then immediately went WOW together with my 1 year old son. The two of us were expected to start up a fellowship in a new city.That's when . I soon realized that my spiritual life had been built, not on a rock, but on sand whose particles were made up of the belief that if I took the advanced class and went WOW, I’d become this strong and wonderful believer.In reality, I found out that not only could I not live up to my WOW commitment’s expectations (because of the sand situation) but also that my new husband really had no interest in living up to it at all – he’d only went WOW because I wanted to go.The ensuing paranoid was horrible.I believed with all my heart that if I “copped out,” we were going to lose God’s hedge of protection and become sitting ducks for the adversary (including my son!). I mentally lost it and we left both the field and the ministry.Thankfully, I regained my sanity a little while later.
Now to quickly put an ending to this long story, we eventually got back into the Ministry (I know, I know ), I became pregnant with my second child, the country coordinator who was married with two children wanted to have an affair with me, I had a third baby while living in a Way home, actually went door-to-door witnessing a few days after giving birth (again – crazy stuff) and in 1986, I finally left the ministry for good.I gave up hope in the ministry when the new country coordinator snubbed me and accused me of pridefully thinking I knew more than “Doctor Wierwille” because I’d come to believe (through much studying) that their doctrine of tithing was not biblical.There was also all the other crap going on in the ministry at that time, but the “straw-and-camel’s back” reason was because my mother was dying of cancer.The same mother I had spent so little quality time with because of my beliefs and activities in the way. Thankfully, again, I was able to be of some comfort to her before she died.
During all those years in the ministry, I had a desire to go into the Corps as another way of growing spiritually, but was too timid about asking people to sponsor me.Based on what I’ve been reading on GSC, I am so, so glad I never took that route.However, a family that I knew and deeply cared about (except for the husband who had a long history of wanting to have the status of being a “way elite”) did take that route and went into the Family Corps.Unfortunately, the wife herself had a long history of dealing with a bipolar disorder.She left the Corps in a manic state during their first year and her husband and 3 children, who then also had to leave the Corps, wanted nothing more to do with her after that.As being a mother was the most special thing in her life, she committed suicide within a year.Her “Christian” and still way-believing family never came to the funeral.
I can relate to much of the pain and anger I read about in some posts.I include the word “much” because I’ve never had to live through the brutal experiences of being in the corps like a lot of you did.I still carry around the desire to do 2 Timothy 2:15, but I’m learning to listen to the biblical beliefs of others and respect their right to have them.
Here’s my history with TW.Sorry, it’s a bit long.I took the class in 1974 and went WOW in 1975.That year was a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly.I was 19 and had never lived away from home before. We were a family of 6 (3 guys and 3 girls), but 2 left.One of them was a friend who I went to grade school with and who lived down the street from me growing up.He had a mental breakdown on the field and then continued to struggle for a few more years after that.I’d meet up with him at times once I returned back home and often he was making no sense when talking about God and other stuff – it was like his brain was fried. As far as I knew he was never like that before going WOW.
I did like my WOW family and enjoyed the fellowships, teaching the Word and to some degree, even witnessing.I wanted to stay on the straight and narrow and not return to old bad habits and to help me do so, I developed an eating disorder (which I have had to deal with off and on ever since). It was also very upsetting when I couldn’t go home for a visit when I heard that my mom had left my dad.
Although I felt proud when I finished the year and received my WOW pin, to be honest, it wasn’t just "my commitment and love for God" that kept me on the field.It was also because I wanted to see my boyfriend again at the Rock of Ages (a WOW ambassador I had started to date before going WOW ).However, that's when I found out that he had hooked up with someone during his Corps year.I left the ministry shortly after returning home and was doing alright until I began to miss the fellowship of believers so I moved to another city to get back into “the Word.”
During that year, the Corps leader on his interim year approached me and yadda, yadda, yadda, I got off the straight and narrow path, became pregnant, refused his suggestion to have an abortion and later had a beautiful baby boy.He was sent immediately to some faraway place in Canada, and I had no further contact with him until a few emails decades later.
In 1978, I took the advanced class and married a fellow believer six months after we met based on the way’s teaching that any two believers, even with very little else in common, would have a successful marriage as long as they stood on the word.We had a quick honeymoon and then immediately went WOW together with my 1 year old son. The two of us were expected to start up a fellowship in a new city.That's when . I soon realized that my spiritual life had been built, not on a rock, but on sand whose particles were made up of the belief that if I took the advanced class and went WOW, I’d become this strong and wonderful believer.In reality, I found out that not only could I not live up to my WOW commitment’s expectations (because of the sand situation) but also that my new husband really had no interest in living up to it at all – he’d only went WOW because I wanted to go.The ensuing paranoid was horrible.I believed with all my heart that if I “copped out,” we were going to lose God’s hedge of protection and become sitting ducks for the adversary (including my son!). I mentally lost it and we left both the field and the ministry.Thankfully, I regained my sanity a little while later.
Now to quickly put an ending to this long story, we eventually got back into the Ministry (I know, I know ), I became pregnant with my second child, the country coordinator who was married with two children wanted to have an affair with me, I had a third baby while living in a Way home, actually went door-to-door witnessing a few days after giving birth (again – crazy stuff) and in 1986, I finally left the ministry for good.I gave up hope in the ministry when the new country coordinator snubbed me and accused me of pridefully thinking I knew more than “Doctor Wierwille” because I’d come to believe (through much studying) that their doctrine of tithing was not biblical.There was also all the other crap going on in the ministry at that time, but the “straw-and-camel’s back” reason was because my mother was dying of cancer.The same mother I had spent so little quality time with because of my beliefs and activities in the way. Thankfully, again, I was able to be of some comfort to her before she died.
During all those years in the ministry, I had a desire to go into the Corps as another way of growing spiritually, but was too timid about asking people to sponsor me.Based on what I’ve been reading on GSC, I am so, so glad I never took that route.However, a family that I knew and deeply cared about (except for the husband who had a long history of wanting to have the status of being a “way elite”) did take that route and went into the Family Corps.Unfortunately, the wife herself had a long history of dealing with a bipolar disorder.She left the Corps in a manic state during their first year and her husband and 3 children, who then also had to leave the Corps, wanted nothing more to do with her after that.As being a mother was the most special thing in her life, she committed suicide within a year.Her “Christian” and still way-believing family never came to the funeral.
I can relate to much of the pain and anger I read about in some posts.I include the word “much” because I’ve never had to live through the brutal experiences of being in the corps like a lot of you did.I still carry around the desire to do 2 Timothy 2:15, but I’m learning to listen to the biblical beliefs of others and respect their right to have them.
Here’s my history with TW.Sorry, it’s a bit long.I took the class in 1974 and went WOW in 1975.That year was a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly.I was 19 and had never lived away from home before. We were a family of 6 (3 guys and 3 girls), but 2 left.One of them was a friend who I went to grade school with and who lived down the street from me growing up.He had a mental breakdown on the field and then continued to struggle for a few more years after that.I’d meet up with him at times once I returned back home and often he was making no sense when talking about God and other stuff – it was like his brain was fried. As far as I knew he was never like that before going WOW.
I did like my WOW family and enjoyed the fellowships, teaching the Word and to some degree, even witnessing.I wanted to stay on the straight and narrow and not return to old bad habits and to help me do so, I developed an eating disorder (which I have had to deal with off and on ever since). It was also very upsetting when I couldn’t go home for a visit when I heard that my mom had left my dad.
Although I felt proud when I finished the year and received my WOW pin, to be honest, it wasn’t just "my commitment and love for God" that kept me on the field.It was also because I wanted to see my boyfriend again at the Rock of Ages (a WOW ambassador I had started to date before going WOW ).However, that's when I found out that he had hooked up with someone during his Corps year.I left the ministry shortly after returning home and was doing alright until I began to miss the fellowship of believers so I moved to another city to get back into “the Word.”
During that year, the Corps leader on his interim year approached me and yadda, yadda, yadda, I got off the straight and narrow path, became pregnant, refused his suggestion to have an abortion and later had a beautiful baby boy.He was sent immediately to some faraway place in Canada, and I had no further contact with him until a few emails decades later.
In 1978, I took the advanced class and married a fellow believer six months after we met based on the way’s teaching that any two believers, even with very little else in common, would have a successful marriage as long as they stood on the word.We had a quick honeymoon and then immediately went WOW together with my 1 year old son. The two of us were expected to start up a fellowship in a new city.That's when . I soon realized that my spiritual life had been built, not on a rock, but on sand whose particles were made up of the belief that if I took the advanced class and went WOW, I’d become this strong and wonderful believer.In reality, I found out that not only could I not live up to my WOW commitment’s expectations (because of the sand situation) but also that my new husband really had no interest in living up to it at all – he’d only went WOW because I wanted to go.The ensuing paranoid was horrible.I believed with all my heart that if I “copped out,” we were going to lose God’s hedge of protection and become sitting ducks for the adversary (including my son!). I mentally lost it and we left both the field and the ministry.Thankfully, I regained my sanity a little while later.
Now to quickly put an ending to this long story, we eventually got back into the Ministry (I know, I know ), I became pregnant with my second child, the country coordinator who was married with two children wanted to have an affair with me, I had a third baby while living in a Way home, actually went door-to-door witnessing a few days after giving birth (again – crazy stuff) and in 1986, I finally left the ministry for good.I gave up hope in the ministry when the new country coordinator snubbed me and accused me of pridefully thinking I knew more than “Doctor Wierwille” because I’d come to believe (through much studying) that their doctrine of tithing was not biblical.There was also all the other crap going on in the ministry at that time, but the “straw-and-camel’s back” reason was because my mother was dying of cancer.The same mother I had spent so little quality time with because of my beliefs and activities in the way. Thankfully, again, I was able to be of some comfort to her before she died.
During all those years in the ministry, I had a desire to go into the Corps as another way of growing spiritually, but was too timid about asking people to sponsor me.Based on what I’ve been reading on GSC, I am so, so glad I never took that route.However, a family that I knew and deeply cared about (except for the husband who had a long history of wanting to have the status of being a “way elite”) did take that route and went into the Family Corps.Unfortunately, the wife herself had a long history of dealing with a bipolar disorder.She left the Corps in a manic state during their first year and her husband and 3 children, who then also had to leave the Corps, wanted nothing more to do with her after that.As being a mother was the most special thing in her life, she committed suicide within a year.Her “Christian” and still way-believing family never came to the funeral.
I can relate to much of the pain and anger I read about in some posts.I include the word “much” because I’ve never had to live through the brutal experiences of being in the corps like a lot of you did.I still carry around the desire to do 2 Timothy 2:15, but I’m learning to listen to the biblical beliefs of others and respect their right to have them.
Thx so much for that sharing. We have some similarities: I too went WOW in 1975 (Amarillo TX) and took the Advanced Class in 1978 (Virginia Beach VA). I still SIT, and even do it at a Roman Catholic church meeting called "spirit wind". We have manifestions AND mass all in one meeting. Not only do they SIT, and eat the Eucharist but they lay on hands "like a house of fire." That part blows my mind. They always ask if you want to be personally prayed for before you leave the room -- gear up for it, it's a big deal.
Here’s my history with TW.Sorry, it’s a bit long.I took the class in 1974 and went WOW in 1975.That year was a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly.I was 19 and had never lived away from home before. We were a family of 6 (3 guys and 3 girls), but 2 left.One of them was a friend who I went to grade school with and who lived down the street from me growing up.He had a mental breakdown on the field and then continued to struggle for a few more years after that.I’d meet up with him at times once I returned back home and often he was making no sense when talking about God and other stuff – it was like his brain was fried. As far as I knew he was never like that before going WOW.
I did like my WOW family and enjoyed the fellowships, teaching the Word and to some degree, even witnessing.I wanted to stay on the straight and narrow and not return to old bad habits and to help me do so, I developed an eating disorder (which I have had to deal with off and on ever since). It was also very upsetting when I couldn’t go home for a visit when I heard that my mom had left my dad.
Although I felt proud when I finished the year and received my WOW pin, to be honest, it wasn’t just "my commitment and love for God" that kept me on the field.It was also because I wanted to see my boyfriend again at the Rock of Ages (a WOW ambassador I had started to date before going WOW ).However, that's when I found out that he had hooked up with someone during his Corps year.I left the ministry shortly after returning home and was doing alright until I began to miss the fellowship of believers so I moved to another city to get back into “the Word.”
During that year, the Corps leader on his interim year approached me and yadda, yadda, yadda, I got off the straight and narrow path, became pregnant, refused his suggestion to have an abortion and later had a beautiful baby boy.He was sent immediately to some faraway place in Canada, and I had no further contact with him until a few emails decades later.
In 1978, I took the advanced class and married a fellow believer six months after we met based on the way’s teaching that any two believers, even with very little else in common, would have a successful marriage as long as they stood on the word.We had a quick honeymoon and then immediately went WOW together with my 1 year old son. The two of us were expected to start up a fellowship in a new city.That's when . I soon realized that my spiritual life had been built, not on a rock, but on sand whose particles were made up of the belief that if I took the advanced class and went WOW, I’d become this strong and wonderful believer.In reality, I found out that not only could I not live up to my WOW commitment’s expectations (because of the sand situation) but also that my new husband really had no interest in living up to it at all – he’d only went WOW because I wanted to go.The ensuing paranoid was horrible.I believed with all my heart that if I “copped out,” we were going to lose God’s hedge of protection and become sitting ducks for the adversary (including my son!). I mentally lost it and we left both the field and the ministry.Thankfully, I regained my sanity a little while later.
Now to quickly put an ending to this long story, we eventually got back into the Ministry (I know, I know ), I became pregnant with my second child, the country coordinator who was married with two children wanted to have an affair with me, I had a third baby while living in a Way home, actually went door-to-door witnessing a few days after giving birth (again – crazy stuff) and in 1986, I finally left the ministry for good.I gave up hope in the ministry when the new country coordinator snubbed me and accused me of pridefully thinking I knew more than “Doctor Wierwille” because I’d come to believe (through much studying) that their doctrine of tithing was not biblical.There was also all the other crap going on in the ministry at that time, but the “straw-and-camel’s back” reason was because my mother was dying of cancer.The same mother I had spent so little quality time with because of my beliefs and activities in the way. Thankfully, again, I was able to be of some comfort to her before she died.
During all those years in the ministry, I had a desire to go into the Corps as another way of growing spiritually, but was too timid about asking people to sponsor me.Based on what I’ve been reading on GSC, I am so, so glad I never took that route.However, a family that I knew and deeply cared about (except for the husband who had a long history of wanting to have the status of being a “way elite”) did take that route and went into the Family Corps.Unfortunately, the wife herself had a long history of dealing with a bipolar disorder.She left the Corps in a manic state during their first year and her husband and 3 children, who then also had to leave the Corps, wanted nothing more to do with her after that.As being a mother was the most special thing in her life, she committed suicide within a year.Her “Christian” and still way-believing family never came to the funeral.
I can relate to much of the pain and anger I read about in some posts.I include the word “much” because I’ve never had to live through the brutal experiences of being in the corps like a lot of you did.I still carry around the desire to do 2 Timothy 2:15, but I’m learning to listen to the biblical beliefs of others and respect their right to have them.
Thanks for your background (didnt wanna say story cause dont wanna copycat T-Bone...nah nah..j/k) Definately be thankful you didn't go into the way corps. It's not a good lifestyle and is stressful for kids especially. As for being way corps elite..it's a bunch of nepotism, good ole boys type stuff. Vic/Craig good ole boy system and Rosalie thrived on favoritism an nepotism on behalf of her better half Donna. It all comes down to who they like and who they think will do exactly what they want without complaints. I was on the presidents cabinet for a couple years and was running the Ground Department during that time. I literally could do without that entire experience. Actually, being a department coordinator was fun. I had a ton of responsibility and an ego to match. I quickly fell out of favor when my son was born with health problems and the directors wanted to demote me because it turned out he had chronic kidney disease. That sort of thing is highly agains HR law, it wouldve been different if the health problems were mine or my spouses but not children. I knew what they were doing and why and I had had enough. Im not sure if it was the stress of the health issues or what, but the gloves came off and I fought them for dang near a year and a half. My former wife and I were treated like lepers by staff, way corps, and clergy alike. Nobody really knew what to do for us and to make it worse all the protocol at HQ and me being on the cabinet shut off anyone else from helping out in any meaningful way because I was the directors problem and they were supposed to take care of me. Well the one visit I got from my director at the hospital when my son was born turned out to be me catering to his sorry butt.
Anywho, be glad you never did any of that. Am I better from all the various experiences from my way corps training? Sure, I definately am, but I could have had similar experiences hoboing on freight trains and stopping in random towns for short periods of time to work and witnes...lol.
I was interested in one of the quotes that are listed on the right side of the page under the heading “Top Posters in this Topic” so I clicked on it and it brought me back to page 18.I read this page and my interest kept me going for another two until my eyes needed a break.While there were a lot of disagreements going on, there was also some comic relief with the cherry on top being the post by T-Bone which began with “A good Grease Spotter never sleeps… All in all, however, each poster had written one or more things that I connected with and for that I’m grateful.
It did get me thinking though about what I hope to give as well as receive from posting on GSC and by reading other people’s posts.I wrote somewhat of a “tome” today about my history with TW.I apologize if this is not the purpose of this thread, but I thought some of you would be able to connect with me and my story without thinking “what the heck is wrong with this person” as I sometimes do when I look back on it.
Along with feeling a connection with you all because of what you’ve shared, I also want and need (sorry, not a flashback to the 5 things you need to know…) a light to shine into the crevices of my mind where some of the ministry’s dark influences and doctrines most likely still remain.Even though I know this is not a religious site, based on what I’ve learned so far, I think GSC is a good place for this to happen (with the help and guidance from big daddy God and cool brother and lord Jesus Christ).
I quickly fell out of favor when my son was born with health problems and the directors wanted to demote me because it turned out he had chronic kidney disease. That sort of thing is highly agains HR law,
Well the one visit I got from my director at the hospital when my son was born turned out to be me catering to his sorry butt.
Hi OldSkool, thanks for your post. Can you share some specifics about why your son's condition was highly against HR law and what happened with your director at the hospital? If it's a personal matter, I understand.
Hi OldSkool, thanks for your post. Can you share some specifics about why your son's condition was highly against HR law and what happened with your director at the hospital? If it's a personal matter, I understand.
My apologies, could have made that more clear. It's against HR law to change someone's job because of their child's health problems.
My director at the time was a bumbling doof when he came to visit us at the hospital. I wound up waiting on him to make sure he was taken care of instead of him actually caring for us.
Thx so much for that sharing. We have some similarities: I too went WOW in 1975 (Amarillo TX) and took the Advanced Class in 1978 (Virginia Beach VA). I still SIT, and even do it at a Roman Catholic church meeting called "spirit wind". We have manifestions AND mass all in one meeting. Not only do they SIT, and eat the Eucharist but they lay on hands "like a house of fire." That part blows my mind. They always ask if you want to be personally prayed for before you leave the room -- gear up for it, it's a big deal.
Hey oldies pretty cool about the progressive Catholic group. Glad you found some Christian community. It’s in a lot of places we never looked much before.
I was interested in one of the quotes that are listed on the right side of the page under the heading “Top Posters in this Topic” so I clicked on it and it brought me back to page 18.I read this page and my interest kept me going for another two until my eyes needed a break.While there were a lot of disagreements going on, there was also some comic relief with the cherry on top being the post by T-Bone which began with “A good Grease Spotter never sleeps… All in all, however, each poster had written one or more things that I connected with and for that I’m grateful.
It did get me thinking though about what I hope to give as well as receive from posting on GSC and by reading other people’s posts.I wrote somewhat of a “tome” today about my history with TW.I apologize if this is not the purpose of this thread, but I thought some of you would be able to connect with me and my story without thinking “what the heck is wrong with this person” as I sometimes do when I look back on it.
Along with feeling a connection with you all because of what you’ve shared, I also want and need (sorry, not a flashback to the 5 things you need to know…) a light to shine into the crevices of my mind where some of the ministry’s dark influences and doctrines most likely still remain.Even though I know this is not a religious site, based on what I’ve learned so far, I think GSC is a good place for this to happen (with the help and guidance from big daddy God and cool brother and lord Jesus Christ).
Hey Charity thanks for sharing your story. Like your name says I’m sure love and Christian connection and community will heal a lot. I like the big daddy cool brother adjectives. That surely reflects a personal relationship.
I think the love and light will illuminate the depths and crevices and burn out the bullshonta.
My apologies, could have made that more clear. It's against HR law to change someone's job because of their child's health problems.
My director at the time was a bumbling doof when he came to visit us at the hospital. I wound up waiting on him to make sure he was taken care of instead of him actually caring for us.
As a grandmother of a baby needing life-saving surgery at birth and 2 follow-up surgeries as well as later being diagnosed with non-verbal autism, I know from supporting my daughter how challenging it is emotionally and physically to care for a child with chronic health issues. Your experience of how they made things more difficult for you because they couldn't demote you is heartbreaking. At least it got you out of there.
Sorry about the quotes below. I didn't know how to get rid of them.
2 hours ago, OldSkool said:
My apologies, could have made that more clear. It's against HR law to change someone's job because of their child's health problems.
My director at the time was a bumbling doof when he came to visit us at the hospital. I wound up waiting on him to make sure he was taken care of instead of him actually caring for us.
2 hours ago, OldSkool said:
My apologies, could have made that more clear. It's against HR law to change someone's job because of their child's health problems.
My director at the time was a bumbling doof when he came to visit us at the hospital. I wound up waiting on him to make sure he was taken care of instead of him actually caring for us.
Thx so much for that sharing. We have some similarities: I too went WOW in 1975 (Amarillo TX) and took the Advanced Class in 1978 (Virginia Beach VA). I still SIT, and even do it at a Roman Catholic church meeting called "spirit wind". We have manifestions AND mass all in one meeting. Not only do they SIT, and eat the Eucharist but they lay on hands "like a house of fire." That part blows my mind. They always ask if you want to be personally prayed for before you leave the room -- gear up for it, it's a big deal.
I remember attending a "charismatic" Catholic meeting shortly before I ended up in the way. I really liked the priest and there was some of what you're describing above taking place. I don't know if these meetings are still going on in my city. I might check around to find out.
This is a short follow up to my long post from earlier today.
Although I can tie many of the decisions I made during my time with the way ministry to their wrong doctrine and cult-like practices, many of my other decisions were based on unhealthy beliefs I held long before going to my first fellowship.I was a very insecure, naive and people-pleasing teenager.I had very little guidance growing up as my father was an alcoholic and my mother was oppressed (and depressed) by the physical and emotion abuse she received from my dad.So the attention I received at my first fellowship from two outgoing, friendly and happy WOW girls and the teaching I heard about God’s unconditional love and being righteous before Him because of Jesus Christ was what I was desperately needing.
The problem was that all the classes I took and all the ways I participated within the ministry led me to think that I was walking in fellowship with God.I believed that my confidence in Him grew because I was doing the “work of the ministry.” What I couldn’t see was that most of what I was doing was simply playing “follow the leader.” I was never set free from the pain and insecurities that lived deep within me – they were merely covered over at certain periods of time.
I finish with my own “literal translation according to usage” of Hebrews 10:1,2
1 For since the way ministry is never able, by all their classes and all the sacrifices they want you to offer year after year, make those who draw near to their leaders complete in Christ.
2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped needing to take the same classes ad nauseam and sacrifice their time and money to the way ministry until the day they died? Because the ones who serve, having experience their completeness in Christ as a way of life, would have had no more need for their mistakes, shortcomings and sincere questions to be thrown up in their faces.
Hey Charity thanks for sharing your story. Like your name says I’m sure love and Christian connection and community will heal a lot. I like the big daddy cool brother adjectives. That surely reflects a personal relationship.
I think the love and light will illuminate the depths and crevices and burn out the bullshonta.
But I’m weird like that.
Best
chocky
I would like to return to the Vineyard church I mentioned in one of my earliest posts. They are loving and accepting of others regardless of their religious beliefs. They also do activities in the community to help others out and show people the love of God. I just need a little more time.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Nathan_Jr
I think that's a fair speculation.
If only he could have believed big enough to live long enough, he would have....
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T-Bone
Hey all,
I don’t ever mean to drive everyone into a tizzy with stuff I share. I like the freedom we have on a non-religious site - I don’t feel like I have to kowtow to a particular theology.
My wife and I differ on our SIT experiences - and we don’t make it or a lot of other topics a dealbreaker. I have a Roman Catholic background and she was raised southern Baptist. Prayer and how we each think of God and relate to God is deeply personal…unique…indescribable. I’m perfectly happy that our top priority is no longer TWI’s agenda but our family!
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Nathan_Jr
It sure as shonta is.
Amen.
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chockfull
Love your perspectives. Compromise is the harmony of life, and it flows much easier outside of a fundamentalist extreme viewpoint.
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Nathan_Jr
It seems to me compromise is not always necessary for harmony, but compassionate listening and tolerance is. I don't expect anyone here to compromise their convictions or beliefs, but I hope everyone can truly listen to one another and find common ground while accepting the differences. And I have, indeed, encountered this compassion with everybody here, except one.
I never witnessed such smug contempt for literally EVERYONE, until I started going to PFLAP fellowship. Judgement and condemnation were the eggshells on which all dared to walk. I have never known such a hateful group of people wearing such fake masks of love.
Thank God for GSC.
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WordWolf
We had some fascinating discussions on the subject of "speaking in tongues" a few years back. We discussed the physical actions we were taught, what the Bible says on the subject, and whether or not those were the same thing.
Personally, I NOW think they were never the same thing. (I changed positions as the discussion unfolded.) I think that the SIT in the Bible may exist somewhere, but I haven't seen it because what I've seen doesn't match the Bible but only matches what I was told the Bible MEANT. In twi, a number of verses that don't mention "speaking in tongues" are allegedly about it. In hindsight, I'm wondering why God Almighty got so coy if they're really the same thing ( " something something in the spirit" and "speaking in tongues.") There's no verse that says "speaking in tongues, that is to say, something-something in the spirit" or equivalent. I know He didn't have to speak to my modern mind, but that's something necessary, if such an important subject is what I was told it was.
None of this affects my faith or my prayer life- I can pray just fine "with my understanding" and get miraculous results "with my understanding". I also don't go around sneering at Christians who think the modern SIT is the Biblical one. What would that serve? For that matter, I don't sneer at people with various positions on the Trinity (for example) for the same reason- so what? God's honoring our prayers equally, so it looks a lot like He's making them non-issues.
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WordWolf
It's a completely different world, post-twi. It's a completely different Christianity, post-twi. And the other Christians are often not the fools we were told they were. Agreeing to disagree when there's an INEVITABLE difference leads to a life with a LOT less stress.
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WordWolf
Oh, you think you don't? Fenneman, get the gun!
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chockfull
Yes in the world we live in tolerance and acceptance more illuminates the path than hard core stances.
With compromise, to me, like in a marriage, that means being ok with having diverse viewpoints on topics, allowing others the freedom to see things their way, and not being such an a hole with a corncob stuck up the butt looking down my nose at other Christians. Like I was taught to do in the PFAL series. People blame the Way Corps but that was just a Stanford prison experiment with free time to study collaterals.
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T-Bone
That reminds me…the other day I saw my wife in the kitchen praying in the Holy Ghost, but I couldn't see the Holy Ghost. *
*Similar to the TWI ploy of answering a question with a question – countering Groucho with Groucho
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chockfull
Holy dilemmas Batman!
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Charity
Here’s my history with TW. Sorry, it’s a bit long. I took the class in 1974 and went WOW in 1975. That year was a mixture of the good, the bad and the ugly. I was 19 and had never lived away from home before. We were a family of 6 (3 guys and 3 girls), but 2 left. One of them was a friend who I went to grade school with and who lived down the street from me growing up. He had a mental breakdown on the field and then continued to struggle for a few more years after that. I’d meet up with him at times once I returned back home and often he was making no sense when talking about God and other stuff – it was like his brain was fried. As far as I knew he was never like that before going WOW.
I did like my WOW family and enjoyed the fellowships, teaching the Word and to some degree, even witnessing. I wanted to stay on the straight and narrow and not return to old bad habits and to help me do so, I developed an eating disorder (which I have had to deal with off and on ever since). It was also very upsetting when I couldn’t go home for a visit when I heard that my mom had left my dad.
Although I felt proud when I finished the year and received my WOW pin, to be honest, it wasn’t just "my commitment and love for God" that kept me on the field. It was also because I wanted to see my boyfriend again at the Rock of Ages (a WOW ambassador I had started to date before going WOW
). However, that's when I found out that he had hooked up with someone during his Corps year. I left the ministry shortly after returning home and was doing alright until I began to miss the fellowship of believers so I moved to another city to get back into “the Word.”
During that year, the Corps leader on his interim year approached me and yadda, yadda, yadda, I got off the straight and narrow path, became pregnant, refused his suggestion to have an abortion and later had a beautiful baby boy. He was sent immediately to some faraway place in Canada, and I had no further contact with him until a few emails decades later.
In 1978, I took the advanced class and married a fellow believer six months after we met based on the way’s teaching that any two believers, even with very little else in common, would have a successful marriage as long as they stood on the word. We had a quick honeymoon and then immediately went WOW together with my 1 year old son. The two of us were expected to start up a fellowship in a new city. That's when
. I soon realized that my spiritual life had been built, not on a rock, but on sand whose particles were made up of the belief that if I took the advanced class and went WOW, I’d become this strong and wonderful believer. In reality, I found out that not only could I not live up to my WOW commitment’s expectations (because of the sand situation) but also that my new husband really had no interest in living up to it at all – he’d only went WOW because I wanted to go. The ensuing paranoid was horrible. I believed with all my heart that if I “copped out,” we were going to lose God’s hedge of protection and become sitting ducks for the adversary (including my son!). I mentally lost it and we left both the field and the ministry. Thankfully, I regained my sanity a little while later.
Now to quickly put an ending to this long story, we eventually got back into the Ministry (I know, I know
), I became pregnant with my second child, the country coordinator who was married with two children wanted to have an affair with me, I had a third baby while living in a Way home, actually went door-to-door witnessing a few days after giving birth (again – crazy stuff) and in 1986, I finally left the ministry for good. I gave up hope in the ministry when the new country coordinator snubbed me and accused me of pridefully thinking I knew more than “Doctor Wierwille” because I’d come to believe (through much studying) that their doctrine of tithing was not biblical. There was also all the other crap going on in the ministry at that time, but the “straw-and-camel’s back” reason was because my mother was dying of cancer. The same mother I had spent so little quality time with because of my beliefs and activities in the way. Thankfully, again, I was able to be of some comfort to her before she died.
During all those years in the ministry, I had a desire to go into the Corps as another way of growing spiritually, but was too timid about asking people to sponsor me. Based on what I’ve been reading on GSC, I am so, so glad I never took that route. However, a family that I knew and deeply cared about (except for the husband who had a long history of wanting to have the status of being a “way elite”) did take that route and went into the Family Corps. Unfortunately, the wife herself had a long history of dealing with a bipolar disorder. She left the Corps in a manic state during their first year and her husband and 3 children, who then also had to leave the Corps, wanted nothing more to do with her after that. As being a mother was the most special thing in her life, she committed suicide within a year. Her “Christian” and still way-believing family never came to the funeral.
I can relate to much of the pain and anger I read about in some posts. I include the word “much” because I’ve never had to live through the brutal experiences of being in the corps like a lot of you did. I still carry around the desire to do 2 Timothy 2:15, but I’m learning to listen to the biblical beliefs of others and respect their right to have them.
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T-Bone
Thanks for sharing your story, Charity!
I love your honesty, clarity, and courage.
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oldiesman
Thx so much for that sharing. We have some similarities: I too went WOW in 1975 (Amarillo TX) and took the Advanced Class in 1978 (Virginia Beach VA). I still SIT, and even do it at a Roman Catholic church meeting called "spirit wind". We have manifestions AND mass all in one meeting. Not only do they SIT, and eat the Eucharist but they lay on hands "like a house of fire." That part blows my mind. They always ask if you want to be personally prayed for before you leave the room -- gear up for it, it's a big deal.
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OldSkool
Thanks for your background (didnt wanna say story cause dont wanna copycat T-Bone...nah nah..j/k) Definately be thankful you didn't go into the way corps. It's not a good lifestyle and is stressful for kids especially. As for being way corps elite..it's a bunch of nepotism, good ole boys type stuff. Vic/Craig good ole boy system and Rosalie thrived on favoritism an nepotism on behalf of her better half Donna. It all comes down to who they like and who they think will do exactly what they want without complaints. I was on the presidents cabinet for a couple years and was running the Ground Department during that time. I literally could do without that entire experience. Actually, being a department coordinator was fun. I had a ton of responsibility and an ego to match. I quickly fell out of favor when my son was born with health problems and the directors wanted to demote me because it turned out he had chronic kidney disease. That sort of thing is highly agains HR law, it wouldve been different if the health problems were mine or my spouses but not children. I knew what they were doing and why and I had had enough. Im not sure if it was the stress of the health issues or what, but the gloves came off and I fought them for dang near a year and a half. My former wife and I were treated like lepers by staff, way corps, and clergy alike. Nobody really knew what to do for us and to make it worse all the protocol at HQ and me being on the cabinet shut off anyone else from helping out in any meaningful way because I was the directors problem and they were supposed to take care of me. Well the one visit I got from my director at the hospital when my son was born turned out to be me catering to his sorry butt.
Anywho, be glad you never did any of that. Am I better from all the various experiences from my way corps training? Sure, I definately am, but I could have had similar experiences hoboing on freight trains and stopping in random towns for short periods of time to work and witnes...lol.
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Charity
I was interested in one of the quotes that are listed on the right side of the page under the heading “Top Posters in this Topic” so I clicked on it and it brought me back to page 18. I read this page and my interest kept me going for another two until my eyes needed a break. While there were a lot of disagreements going on, there was also some comic relief with the cherry on top being the post by T-Bone which began with “A good Grease Spotter never sleeps… All in all, however, each poster had written one or more things that I connected with and for that I’m grateful.
It did get me thinking though about what I hope to give as well as receive from posting on GSC and by reading other people’s posts. I wrote somewhat of a “tome” today about my history with TW. I apologize if this is not the purpose of this thread, but I thought some of you would be able to connect with me and my story without thinking “what the heck is wrong with this person” as I sometimes do when I look back on it.
Along with feeling a connection with you all because of what you’ve shared, I also want and need (sorry, not a flashback to the 5 things you need to know…) a light to shine into the crevices of my mind where some of the ministry’s dark influences and doctrines most likely still remain. Even though I know this is not a religious site, based on what I’ve learned so far, I think GSC is a good place for this to happen (with the help and guidance from big daddy God and cool brother and lord Jesus Christ).
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Charity
Hi OldSkool, thanks for your post. Can you share some specifics about why your son's condition was highly against HR law and what happened with your director at the hospital? If it's a personal matter, I understand.
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OldSkool
My apologies, could have made that more clear. It's against HR law to change someone's job because of their child's health problems.
My director at the time was a bumbling doof when he came to visit us at the hospital. I wound up waiting on him to make sure he was taken care of instead of him actually caring for us.
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chockfull
Hey oldies pretty cool about the progressive Catholic group. Glad you found some Christian community. It’s in a lot of places we never looked much before.
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chockfull
Hey Charity thanks for sharing your story. Like your name says I’m sure love and Christian connection and community will heal a lot. I like the big daddy cool brother adjectives. That surely reflects a personal relationship.
I think the love and light will illuminate the depths and crevices and burn out the bullshonta.
But I’m weird like that.
Best
chocky
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Charity
As a grandmother of a baby needing life-saving surgery at birth and 2 follow-up surgeries as well as later being diagnosed with non-verbal autism, I know from supporting my daughter how challenging it is emotionally and physically to care for a child with chronic health issues. Your experience of how they made things more difficult for you because they couldn't demote you is heartbreaking. At least it got you out of there.
Sorry about the quotes below. I didn't know how to get rid of them.
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Charity
I remember attending a "charismatic" Catholic meeting shortly before I ended up in the way. I really liked the priest and there was some of what you're describing above taking place. I don't know if these meetings are still going on in my city. I might check around to find out.
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Charity
This is a short follow up to my long post from earlier today.
Although I can tie many of the decisions I made during my time with the way ministry to their wrong doctrine and cult-like practices, many of my other decisions were based on unhealthy beliefs I held long before going to my first fellowship. I was a very insecure, naive and people-pleasing teenager. I had very little guidance growing up as my father was an alcoholic and my mother was oppressed (and depressed) by the physical and emotion abuse she received from my dad. So the attention I received at my first fellowship from two outgoing, friendly and happy WOW girls and the teaching I heard about God’s unconditional love and being righteous before Him because of Jesus Christ was what I was desperately needing.
The problem was that all the classes I took and all the ways I participated within the ministry led me to think that I was walking in fellowship with God. I believed that my confidence in Him grew because I was doing the “work of the ministry.” What I couldn’t see was that most of what I was doing was simply playing “follow the leader.” I was never set free from the pain and insecurities that lived deep within me – they were merely covered over at certain periods of time.
I finish with my own “literal translation according to usage” of Hebrews 10:1,2
1 For since the way ministry is never able, by all their classes and all the sacrifices they want you to offer year after year, make those who draw near to their leaders complete in Christ.
2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped needing to take the same classes ad nauseam and sacrifice their time and money to the way ministry until the day they died? Because the ones who serve, having experience their completeness in Christ as a way of life, would have had no more need for their mistakes, shortcomings and sincere questions to be thrown up in their faces.
Good night and God bless.
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Charity
I would like to return to the Vineyard church I mentioned in one of my earliest posts. They are loving and accepting of others regardless of their religious beliefs. They also do activities in the community to help others out and show people the love of God. I just need a little more time.
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