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The Absent Christ?


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16 minutes ago, Mike said:

I've noticed that no matter what answer a wierwille fan has to that legitimate challenge, it will be rejected here, SOMEHOW.  That makes it a legitimate challenge from an illegitimate challenger.

First - I’m not illegitimate - my parents were legally married :rolleyes:

 

second - I’m calling your bluff - an honest declaration of what greater works than Jesus YOU have done will not be rejected 

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6 hours ago, Mike said:

He's invisible, hidden, absent ONLY to us in the physical world.

I'm sure God can see him, next to him, in the spiritual world.

You don’t understand something- the invisible man character of HG Wells’ story could be physically present right next to you but you wouldn’t know it. He would NOT be absent from your presence- only visually undetectable by you or anyone else….geez Mike, what a dumb thing for you to say.

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I’m watching the Jan 6th hearing…and peeking in on Grease Spot…some funny parallels 

Ever notice how some wierwille-fans try to refute wierwille’s criminality despite the damning evidence.

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Reposting and expanding a little from earlier.

Scripture isn't completely mute on Christ the man in his now glorified state - a man who has been changed from flesh and bones/blood to a life quickening spirit. Obviously, John is receiving a vision and that vision is showing him things from a heavenly perspective. I know mike likes to imagine a lowly Jesus still walking around in sandals, a tunic, and a copy of Pflap under his arm...but as usual - scripture disagrees with mike and I cant wait to hear how hes gonna exlain this away...oh wait...wrong dispensation....revelation doesn't apply .....WRONG!

Mike - there's no future trying to tell God what he can and can't do. We simply don't know that Jesus Christ wasn't changed AFTER the ascension into what is described here in Revelation 1.

Oh - please note his countenance was as the sun shineth in strength and in Acts 9 they say a really bright light...coincidence? Is God lying to John with a fake vision of Christ's PRESENT glory? Strange John fell on his face the same as Paul did when he saw Christ in his glory.

So--if I follow mike's logic, this vision of Chrsit given to John where Jesus Christ adresses him in a vision DIRECTLY is all made up. It's a future day and Jesus is hidden in a backroom of heaven somewhere in his sandals and tunic reading PFAL and standing in awe of st vic. Ya...ok.

Revelation 1:11-18

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Edited by OldSkool
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14 hours ago, Mike said:

Kinda interesting.
Is this in the hated wierwille curricula?

wierwille curricula = a cult-leader’s subjects comprising a course of study to indoctrinate followers so that they shall go forth as snake oil sales reps in areas of concern, interest and need deemed thus by money grubbing cult-leaders. Program titles may vary by name - PFAL, Advanced Class, WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps, etc., but it’s still the same old $hit - different name.Tuition cost = varies with how much you buy into the $hit.

~ ~ ~ ~

Grease Spot curricula = cult-survivors sharing experiences and insight which consists of developing cognitive skills and unpacking the mental baggage of cult indoctrination. Tuition cost = free - but donations of any amount are appreciated and it doesn’t hurt to buy the mods a cup of coffee occasionally.

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2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

That's not even close to what Anno Domini means. Victor proved in one of the PFAL  sessions that he didn't understand Latin, either.

How can our lord watch over us if he's absent. That doesn't even make sense. And if it doesn't fit, it's not true to fact.

Oops!  I made a mistake there in my math.
 Anno Domini means "[Year under the watchful eye of our absent Lord] minus 33.

That's the correction factor for the Ascension happening at year 33, and Jesus being born at year 0 BC.

*/*/*

Now, we got to factor in the corrections for 33 --> 30.  and 0 --> 3 BC, and that the year zero doesn't exits. Then the correction for the Ascension-Sept.11 delta.

 

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2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Yup - young and naive - cognitive skills undeveloped - the perfect candidate for cult indoctrination 

I am sincerely sorry for you.
If it is ANY consolation to you, please consider this.

If this were a military operation in war,
and corrupt generals, and inept officers
sent you home crippled and your friends dead,
then when the facts of your case and heart
boiled up to the surface for all to see,
and all those responsible were fully exposed,
then all their rewards would belong to you,
if a righteous judge ruled over your case.

I can assure you that is only part of the story... so far.
The righteous judge is on his way to end his absence.

 

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30 minutes ago, Mike said:

Oops!  I made a mistake there in my math.
 Anno Domini means "[Year under the watchful eye of our absent Lord] minus 33.

That's the correction factor for the Ascension happening at year 33, and Jesus being born at year 0 BC.

*/*/*

Now, we got to factor in the corrections for 33 --> 30.  and 0 --> 3 BC, and that the year zero doesn't exits. Then the correction for the Ascension-Sept.11 delta.

 

What is the literal meaning of the Latin phrase Anno Domini?

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2 hours ago, T-Bone said:

First - I’m not illegitimate - my parents were legally married :rolleyes:

 

second - I’m calling your bluff - an honest declaration of what greater works than Jesus YOU have done will not be rejected 

Hopefully I made it clear I wasn't talking about illegitimate births, but the donning of an illegitimate robe of "The challenger."

*/*/*/*/*

As to rising to the legitimate challenge, this forum is not the place to do it.
The signs, miracles, and wonders in my life are not there to help me win credibility here. Let's be honest and acknowledge that. OK?

You can't goad me to prove myself by saying "That's what they always do when pressed for their 'greater works,'" 

And it is disingenuous of you to assure me that you wont dump a lot of garbage all over my answer.  LoL!  You'll just step back and let everyone else do that for you. 

Did you honestly think that you were offering me that?  LoL  Reminds me of Connie Chung saying "Just between us..." to Newt's aging mother on National TV.

 

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2 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

I can assure you, you have no clear perception whatsoever what I can or want to understand. Your perceptions are dead wrong.

You continue with your assumptions. You continue with your accusations. Like the accuser. I would proceed with caution, if I were you.

Maybe I poorly wrote what you are responding to.

I meant the opposite.  That is why I continue to answer my best your questions.
My perceptions are that it is OK to answer you, and spend quality time with you.

Help me edit (down here) what I said that made you feel that way.
It was not my intention.

My intention was to say something like "Ok, I like the way this is going, so let's continue."

Put yourself in my shoes.
Have you ever had several people throwing eggs at you simultaneously?

 

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33 minutes ago, Mike said:

I am sincerely sorry for you.
If it is ANY consolation to you, please consider this.

If this were a military operation in war,
and corrupt generals, and inept officers
sent you home crippled and your friends dead,
then when the facts of your case and heart
boiled up to the surface for all to see,
and all those responsible were fully exposed,
then all their rewards would belong to you,
if a righteous judge ruled over your case.

I can assure you that is only part of the story... so far.
The righteous judge is on his way to end his absence.

 

The feeling of pity is mutual – I’m sorry your wierwille-infatuation and stubbornness to the truth has imprisoned your heart in a self-righteous cell.

And you can keep pushing that absent-judge-bull$hit all you want if it helps you while away the time in self-imposed solitary confinement.

I live by 2 simple rules – love God and love my neighbor as myself.

If I croak tonight – it would be sad cuz I’m only on season 3 of The West Wing. But if there is a higher power…if this is a moral universe…I hope things ultimately work out for all involved…whatever that means. :rolleyes:   goodbye world   :wave:   (I remember Ted says that at the end of his song )

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On 10/9/2022 at 3:23 PM, T-Bone said:

Here are multiple challenges:  

First challenge: how can wierwille claim he can get back to the authentic prophecy when it was first given if he is only looking at translations and versions instead of the manuscripts written in the original biblical languages? In my humble opinion, it is doubtful wierwille was even competent to read and understand any of the biblical languages anyway.

The man didn't understand English and that's clear throughout PFAL.  If he doesn't understand his native language and its grammar, how the heck can he be trusted when he purports to expound on some other language?  Especially one so very old, with nuances that were there originally and which no doubt changed as centuries wore on.

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24 minutes ago, Mike said:

Hopefully I made it clear I wasn't talking about illegitimate births, but the donning of an illegitimate robe of "The challenger."

*/*/*/*/*

As to rising to the legitimate challenge, this forum is not the place to do it.
The signs, miracles, and wonders in my life are not there to help me win credibility here. Let's be honest and acknowledge that. OK?

You can't goad me to prove myself by saying "That's what they always do when pressed for their 'greater works,'" 

And it is disingenuous of you to assure me that you wont dump a lot of garbage all over my answer.  LoL!  You'll just step back and let everyone else do that for you. 

Did you honestly think that you were offering me that?  LoL  Reminds me of Connie Chung saying "Just between us..." to Newt's aging mother on National TV.

 

you're all talk Mike :biglaugh:

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35 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

you're all talk Mike :biglaugh:

Mike is either a super fast typer, while being able to at least try out for the United States Olympic Speed typing team or uses a software program that allows him to speak with the words entered into a text software program.

Edited by Mark Sanguinetti
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On 10/10/2022 at 4:02 PM, Mike said:

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

*/*/*/*/*


Here we have the flesh and bones, raised from the dead, Jesus.
Notice he didn't say "flesh and blood" because that would not be accurate.

You are right, Oldskool, that his body had changed.  It was the blood part that changed, not the flesh and bones.  He still wanted food.

If Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father (wherever that may be), what is he using for food now (and for the last 2000 years)?  Manna, specially created every day?

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1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

But if there is a higher power…if this is a moral universe…I hope things ultimately work out for all involved…whatever that means. :rolleyes:   goodbye world   :wave:   (I remember Ted says that at the end of his song )


Right now this is NOT a moral universe.

Romans 8:22
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

It's a broken universe, the Second Heaven and Earth, and it is doomed to destruction.

But be comforted, there is a Third Heaven and Earth coming with that righteous judge.

 

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3 hours ago, T-Bone said:

You don’t understand something- the invisible man character of HG Wells’ story could be physically present right next to you but you wouldn’t know it. He would NOT be absent from your presence- only visually undetectable by you or anyone else….geez Mike, what a dumb thing for you to say.

H G Wells invisibility - footprints in the snow
Jesus Christ's invisibility - absence of visible body

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17 minutes ago, Mike said:

The nuns taught me it meant

Quote

Year of our Lord, or the Lord's Year.

 

Lord's Year or Year of the Lord = Anno Domini

Our = Nostri

Edited by Nathan_Jr
I have forgotten more Latin than victor could have learned in a thousand lifetimes.
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2 hours ago, OldSkool said:

 

So--if I follow mike's logic, this vision of Chrsit given to John where Jesus Christ adresses him in a vision DIRECTLY is all made up. It's a future day and Jesus is hidden in a backroom of heaven th.

You don't follow my logic at all.
Jesus is finished, seated at the right hand of God, they are a team, God knows all that goes on, and tells Jesus all he needs to know and what to do from his seated position, and much more. God has all sorts of ways to get a message thru.

Maybe he asks Jesus to make a phone call to get a job done. It may have video. No misrepresentation. No loss of data. Nothing lacking in John's perception of Jesus, because it is a high quality phone/video call.  It's better than that.  It beats all A.I. simulation of ambiance and presence.  The MESSAGE gets through perfectly. God and Jesus a team that is perfectly efficient.

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55 minutes ago, Twinky said:

If Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father (wherever that may be), what is he using for food now (and for the last 2000 years)?  Manna, specially created every day?

Someone just posted about how we don't have much info on this.
Well with a body that can pass through walls, it seems obvious the atoms respect him.
What about temperature?  Might he need a blanket  Is there temperature in heaven?  I have not had time to search the Word on these things, but my hunch is there isn't any info for us there.

Why?  Does this figure into helping us find out if the phrase "absent Chrst" is useful or hurtful?

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25 minutes ago, Mike said:

H G Wells invisibility - footprints in the snow
Jesus Christ's invisibility - absence of visible body

footprints in the snow job  = the impression left by a con artist (wierwille) who was able to conceal his real motives

Christ’s “invisibility” in wierwille’s theology = the state of being ignored or not taken into consideration

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43 minutes ago, Mike said:


Right now this is NOT a moral universe.

But be comforted, there is a Third Heaven and Earth coming with that righteous judge.

What a coincidence – wierwille believed that too - are you guys related or something? 

A moral universe implies that we live in a basically spiritual universe that is somehow ordered by a higher power, by invisible feelings of good and bad, a 'cosmic order' reminiscent of the early Greeks that underpins and motivates our actions. Or a 'moral force' that means our actions must have definite effects which we carry with us. In this respect its meaning comes close to the Hindu concept of Karma. 

Those who reject this idea tend to believe that the universe is just physical, has no spiritual component at all, that events are random and have no deeper meaning or purpose, and that there can be no consequences of any kind to our actions and thus that we live in an amoral or nihilistic universe 

from: Wikipedia: moral universe

 

 

while the judge is away (absent :evildenk:  ) the sexual predators will play :evilshades:

Edited by T-Bone
typos are unabsent
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On 10/4/2022 at 7:42 PM, Mike said:

 the question originated in T-Bone's claim that VPW did not understand the Holy Spirit.  He did understand; it is here that I sense a lack.

I never, ever heard anyone, including VPW, use this simple way to unravel the trinity.  The Father is the Holy Spirit; different titles for the same True God.  So, I am copyrighting it, and you all have to cite me if you use it.

Oh yeah – I meant to remind you of something regarding your “unravel” comment here

and by the way - I refute your claim that wierwille understood the Holy Spirit (or if you prefer holy spirit   ) based on the depraved lifestyle he so brazenly exhibited to the way corps.

And far be it from me to even attempt to unravel, explain, or solve the mystery of the Trinity. In     John 16    Jesus talked about the mysterious and unfathomable innerworkings of the Trinity in the life of each believer. I don’t pretend to fully understand it.

And if you would have read my 67 posts and counting on that Trinity thread - you would see that I have not attempted to explain, unravel, defend, or solve the mystery of the Trinity. All I have attempted to do was show from Scripture the dynamic interrelationship of the Trinity in each believer’s life – whether we are fully aware of it or not.

And don’t pull that  lazy-a$$  baloney time waster tactic you’re so fond of using by acting so helpless and clueless “can you help me find …that thread…my old post on that…wierwille’s lost teaching of whatever…my manifesto…blah blah blah” like you pulled at least twice before when asking where the idiom of permission thread is...if the La-Z-Boy recliner is comfy then sit in it

71K5EPlq8iL._AC_.__US1500__.jpg

Mike, are you five years old? Do you think I’m five years old?

Well…don’t answer that!

Sometimes my wife says I act like I'm five years old...but I’m quick to remind her I’m 5 and 3/4 going on 6   :biglaugh:  … but that’s beside the point.

If you want to take a jab at me over being a Trinitarian – please, please, please  do so on that Trinity thread I told you about earlier.

And for God the Father’s sake find the right thread – don’t pull that manipulative stalling baloney of playing stupid and “accidentally” posting on some thread about the 2nd wave of PFAL has already started  but you meant to post it on the Trinity thread...you know good and well what thread it is.

 If you’re so spiritually sharp and savvy from dedicating so much time and effort into mastering PFAL – then surely following this simple request of mine should be no big deal.  

have a nice day 

Edited by T-Bone
Lazy Editor
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52 minutes ago, Mike said:

You don't follow my logic at all.
Jesus is finished, seated at the right hand of God, they are a team, God knows all that goes on, and tells Jesus all he needs to know and what to do from his seated position, and much more. God has all sorts of ways to get a message thru.

Maybe he asks Jesus to make a phone call to get a job done. It may have video. No misrepresentation. No loss of data. Nothing lacking in John's perception of Jesus, because it is a high quality phone/video call.  It's better than that.  It beats all A.I. simulation of ambiance and presence.  The MESSAGE gets through perfectly. God and Jesus a team that is perfectly efficient.

Was that the watuzi? the mashed potato? or the twist? Cause that sure was a song and dance right around the post.

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