I have often marveled and wondered at how good an agent for God I have been in the past 50 years. I know the days I doubted. I know the weeks I was weak.I know the years I yearned to be stronger against doubt, fear, and temptation.
It blows my mind, the grace and mercy of God on my life, when I was out of fellowship.
I remember days when I was a twig leader, out of fellowship over something, and would pray to God that He wouldn’t let anyone come to my twig later that night. Then some people would come anyway, and maybe one would have a need, and HOLY MACKERAL, I was able to get back in fellowship and actually help them.
This kind of thing happened way more than once, me being in left field for a day, or even a week,… there were even a couple of bad years in there too…. Oh the Romans 7 wretch that I am! Who shall rescue me from this great dilemma??!!
I trust I am not being a double agent now…. But the day is long and the flesh is weak.Please pray for me, especally if you don’t have any sin in your life.
I hate being a double agent.In fact, it has been God’s great grace and mercy on those times I was out of fellowship that got me slowly interested, more and more every year, to lock in to that Christ forming in my soul, and spend less and less time out of fellowship.I love how God is more interested in my successes than my failures.
But VPW's life is not available for me to see in detail and in depth like I can see my own rotten old-man heart.I can plainly see his successes, but his failures are hard to see, unless there are a bunch of wierwille-sin conscious people yelling at me.
The accounts of Jesus’ temptation are irrelevant to wierwille’s obsession with devil spirits!
Why? I think they are very important to see if Jesus was similarly obsessed, and if not, how he handled them. You need to convince me. See if you can counter my argument with more than the brush off with one word, irrelevant.
My teacher, and then he taught why it is good that he is absent.
I had written:"So what's the big deal about him being absent for a while?
He can still see what is goinng on here from his right hand seat.
At least Stephen thought so."
You side-stepped my question, so I will re-word it.
So what's the big deal about you believing he has to be non-absent?
He can still see what is going on here from his right hand seat, RIGHT?
Stephen saw the absent Christ standing way out there at God's right hand, and that was comforting to him.
VPW's life is not available for me to see in detail and in depth like I can see my own rotten old-man heart.I can plainly see his successes, but his failures are hard to see, unless there are a bunch of wierwille-sin conscious people yelling at me.
How do you handle your rotten old-man heart?
I know of wierwille’s success in conniving people . I also know all too well of his failures as a pathological liar, thief, plagiarist, drunkard, and sexual predator - he couldn’t hide those things from the corps.
So, the letters of Paul mixed with believing replace the ascended Nazarene.
NO!!!
You missed the key ingredients: CHRIST present spiritually within a believer walking in renewed mind love.
The letters of Paul (+ whole Bible) mixed with believing, with Christ present within as holy spirit, and walking in renewed mind love replace the ascended Nazarene.
Why? I think they are very important to see if Jesus was similarly obsessed, and if not, how he handled them. You need to convince me. See if you can counter my argument with more than the brush off with one word, irrelevant.
The letters of Paul (+ whole Bible) mixed with believing, with Christ present within as holy spirit, and walking in renewed mind love replace the ascended Nazarene.
Thanks for the clarification. Is this you final answer? Is this what the Word is? Remember, the question I've asked so many times: What is the Word?
it's NOT a trick question. If this is your final answer, fine. If not, add what is missing, and please get back to me with the final answer to What is the Word?
...wierwille became the lens through which I viewed Christ…and when I was in TWI, how that worked in practice was exploring what the Bible says about Christ…only it wasn’t really exploring what the Bible says about Christ. Rather it was reading, listening, and watching what wierwille said... about Christ? Nope! ... – so, I believed he was getting all this stuff from God and passing it on to me....
It sounds to me like you went into the Corps way too early, and had not "made it your own" first.
First you tell me what you don't like about Jesus' statement and me quoting it, AND what you don't like about what he said about believing, and then I'll think about telling you about the success side of my life, and therefore risk you (or others) calling me a liar.
What if I said I raised someone from the dead?
How would you handle that?
Let's just cut to the chase, Twinky, why would you ask me that question? To discredit me, to discredit VPW, to discredit Jesus?
Convince me that you really want to hear what successes I have had with PFAL teaching me the Word.
How many aces up your sleeve do you have, canned raps, to reject ANYTHING I say in answering your question.
Put another way, what kind of answer FROM ME would get you to consider the truth in the verse I quoted, "...and greater works because I go on leave of absence to my Father." (my paraphrase)
Convince me that was a sincere question to me from a good heart and a love of the Word of God.
I’ve noticed wierwille-fans tend to ignore, stall and dodge the legitimate challenge of “tell us about the greater works of Jesus Christ that they have done” .
Their failure to rise to the challenge may be due to their deference to wierwille’s debilitating habit of procrastination and talking the walk but not actually walking the walk. It’s like these folks watched Perry Mason so much they think they could pass a bar exam. Uhm… do they know Raymond Burr was not a real lawyer?
How can our lord watch over us if he's absent. That doesn't even make sense. And if it doesn't fit, it's not true to fact.
Spiritual binoculars. How can God see us when He's way up there also?
So, it sounds like you are getting closer to the question I asked you.
Are you implying that an absent Christ cannot see us from the spiritual realm, and has to return with his personal presence to get an good view? Is this a Near Sighted Jesus theory you are harboring?
I’ve noticed wierwille-fans tend to ignore, stall and dodge the legitimate challenge of “tell us about the greater works of Jesus Christ that they have done” .
I've noticed that no matter what answer a wierwille fan has to that legitimate challenge, it will be rejected here, SOMEHOW. That makes it a legitimate challenge from an illegitimate challenger.
Thanks for the clarification. Is this you final answer? Is this what the Word is? Remember, the question I've asked so many times: What is the Word?
it's NOT a trick question. If this is your final answer, fine. If not, add what is missing, and please get back to me with the final answer to What is the Word?
It is the best answer I have right now, with my present perceptions of what you CAN understand and/or WANT to understand. Those perceptions could be wrong.
Do you feel anything is missing from that "final" answer?
My teacher, and then he taught why it is good that he is absent.
I had written:"So what's the big deal about him being absent for a while?
He can still see what is goinng on here from his right hand seat.
At least Stephen thought so."
You side-stepped my question, so I will re-word it.
So what's the big deal about you believing he has to be non-absent?
He can still see what is going on here from his right hand seat, RIGHT?
Stephen saw the absent Christ standing way out there at God's right hand, and that was comforting to him.
I have my doubts about your teacher’s credentials and intent
Sounds like this is an answer to one of my many question you've evaded.
Where is God? He's far away, up there?
NOT a trick question. If that's your answer, ok. I'm just trying to understand. I don't like making assumptions.
The "far away" is a meaning more literally "the spiritual realm" which is far away from a natural man's mind to comprehend.... and similarly our old-man natures.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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Mike
You wrote: “...Was wierwille a double agent?...
Wow! That is a good question!
I have often marveled and wondered at how good an agent for God I have been in the past 50 years. I know the days I doubted. I know the weeks I was weak. I know the years I yearned to be stronger against doubt, fear, and temptation.
It blows my mind, the grace and mercy of God on my life, when I was out of fellowship.
I remember days when I was a twig leader, out of fellowship over something, and would pray to God that He wouldn’t let anyone come to my twig later that night. Then some people would come anyway, and maybe one would have a need, and HOLY MACKERAL, I was able to get back in fellowship and actually help them.
This kind of thing happened way more than once, me being in left field for a day, or even a week, … there were even a couple of bad years in there too…. Oh the Romans 7 wretch that I am! Who shall rescue me from this great dilemma??!!
I trust I am not being a double agent now…. But the day is long and the flesh is weak. Please pray for me, especally if you don’t have any sin in your life.
I hate being a double agent. In fact, it has been God’s great grace and mercy on those times I was out of fellowship that got me slowly interested, more and more every year, to lock in to that Christ forming in my soul, and spend less and less time out of fellowship. I love how God is more interested in my successes than my failures.
But VPW's life is not available for me to see in detail and in depth like I can see my own rotten old-man heart. I can plainly see his successes, but his failures are hard to see, unless there are a bunch of wierwille-sin conscious people yelling at me.
How do you handle your rotten old-man heart?
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Mike
Why? I think they are very important to see if Jesus was similarly obsessed, and if not, how he handled them. You need to convince me. See if you can counter my argument with more than the brush off with one word, irrelevant.
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Nathan_Jr
That's not even close to what Anno Domini means. Victor proved in one of the PFAL sessions that he didn't understand Latin, either.
How can our lord watch over us if he's absent. That doesn't even make sense. And if it doesn't fit, it's not true to fact.
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Mike
My teacher, and then he taught why it is good that he is absent.
I had written:"So what's the big deal about him being absent for a while?
He can still see what is goinng on here from his right hand seat.
At least Stephen thought so."
You side-stepped my question, so I will re-word it.
So what's the big deal about you believing he has to be non-absent?
He can still see what is going on here from his right hand seat, RIGHT?
Stephen saw the absent Christ standing way out there at God's right hand, and that was comforting to him.
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T-Bone
I know of wierwille’s success in conniving people . I also know all too well of his failures as a pathological liar, thief, plagiarist, drunkard, and sexual predator - he couldn’t hide those things from the corps.
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Mike
NO!!!
You missed the key ingredients: CHRIST present spiritually within a believer walking in renewed mind love.
The letters of Paul (+ whole Bible) mixed with believing, with Christ present within as holy spirit, and walking in renewed mind love replace the ascended Nazarene.
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Mike
Where?
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T-Bone
Your request is irrelevant
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Mike
Was Jesus a snake oil salesman in his teachings on believing?
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T-Bone
In the Bible - but first remove those wierwille colored glasses
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Nathan_Jr
Thanks for the clarification. Is this you final answer? Is this what the Word is? Remember, the question I've asked so many times: What is the Word?
it's NOT a trick question. If this is your final answer, fine. If not, add what is missing, and please get back to me with the final answer to What is the Word?
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Mike
It sounds to me like you went into the Corps way too early, and had not "made it your own" first.
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T-Bone
I’ve noticed wierwille-fans tend to ignore, stall and dodge the legitimate challenge of “tell us about the greater works of Jesus Christ that they have done” .
Their failure to rise to the challenge may be due to their deference to wierwille’s debilitating habit of procrastination and talking the walk but not actually walking the walk. It’s like these folks watched Perry Mason so much they think they could pass a bar exam. Uhm… do they know Raymond Burr was not a real lawyer?
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Mike
Spiritual binoculars. How can God see us when He's way up there also?
So, it sounds like you are getting closer to the question I asked you.
Are you implying that an absent Christ cannot see us from the spiritual realm, and has to return with his personal presence to get an good view? Is this a Near Sighted Jesus theory you are harboring?
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Mike
I've noticed that no matter what answer a wierwille fan has to that legitimate challenge, it will be rejected here, SOMEHOW. That makes it a legitimate challenge from an illegitimate challenger.
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T-Bone
Yup - young and naive - cognitive skills undeveloped - the perfect candidate for cult indoctrination
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Mike
It is the best answer I have right now, with my present perceptions of what you CAN understand and/or WANT to understand. Those perceptions could be wrong.
Do you feel anything is missing from that "final" answer?
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Nathan_Jr
Sounds like this is an answer to one of my many question you've evaded.
Where is God? He's far away, up there?
NOT a trick question. If that's your answer, ok. I'm just trying to understand. I don't like making assumptions.
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T-Bone
I have my doubts about your teacher’s credentials and intent
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Mike
The "far away" is a meaning more literally "the spiritual realm" which is far away from a natural man's mind to comprehend.... and similarly our old-man natures.
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Mike
There is a reason for that.
You are distracted by things OTHER THAN his content.
put another way:
You are distracted by things other than HIS CONTENT.
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T-Bone
That’s the way wierwille portrayed Jesus
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Nathan_Jr
I can assure you, you have no clear perception whatsoever what I can or want to understand. Your perceptions are dead wrong.
You continue with your assumptions. You continue with your accusations. Like the accuser. I would proceed with caution, if I were you.
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T-Bone
That’s the greatest secret in way-world today - the CONTENT of PFAL is a misdirection - it distracts one’s attention to what the Scriptures state.
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