If my words were as delusional as you describe, then y'all would not put hours into refuting them, and then when that fails, more hours into documenting my delusions from scattered past references. LoL
Much easier to refute his nonsense, succeed, then just sit back while he pops up every 10 years like Davey Jones pretending his nonsense was never refuted.
This is why people say holy books have "stood the test of time." Because they ignore that it hasn't.
But I'll grant Mike this much: "PFAL is no less God-breathed than the Bible."
" do think it's absurd to realize we've all been having virtually the exact same discussion with NO apparent common ground found."
I think it is most important for us to magnify what went right in TWI and PFAL.
Most posters oppose this unflinchingly, with no exceptions.
I have flinched, though, and I have heard the negatives expressed. I know some of them are factually correct. I still don't think they should get Number One Billing in my life and not in my posting here. I want to deal with the negatives, but not the way they are handled here. THERE is your common ground.
I work on the negatives in private and with anyone, even TWI officials. I chose to try and limit my posting to what went right. It is a side in ALL of these matters that needs to be presented.
So, I suggest GreaseSpotters flinch a little, and start a new train of thought: what went right at TWI and PFAL.
Then we will have more common ground.
*/*/*/*
"...Something or somebody really should consider figuring out how to actually "connect" such that you give genuine consideration to viewpoints on GSC you've stubbornly refused to do so. ..."
As I said above, I do give genuine consideration to viewpoints on GSC, the negative ones where things went wrong, but I chose to do it all in private.
What went right in PFAL. Well first off stealing the PFAL class. It went really right. I mean JE Stiles could have prosecuted VP for plagiarism. And paid more attention so that the theft could be publicized in the body of Christ the Christian community. But he didn’t so that went right for VP
Also with BG Leonard being Canadian, the court jurisdiction for pursuing a stolen class would not be favorable. That went right.
Also, Mrs Wierwille didn’t divorce him. Usually with men carrying on like that it ends in divorce. It did with Craig. So not getting divorced in the prime of his teaching career went really right for him also.
Having a multi millionaire brother in the furniture business. Without Harry covering Vic’s expenses the hoax would not have spread as wide. So that went right for Vic.
Finding 2 Jesus movement groups to invite back to the farm and produce the start of usurping their authority and money to establish two Way centers on the coasts. That went right.
Finding a young dumb tool athlete to turn the ministry over to who wasn’t smart enough to do anything other than what he was told. This went right. Documented in VP and Me.
Having secretaries who transcribed teachings - that went right for Vic. Thank you Rhoda! Copying all of the BRC sermons meant Vic didn’t have to write or find other books to copy. He could just ad lib, and his secretary could type away. So this is where the collaterals came from that Mike worships.
That went really right also. You have people on the verge of some mental issues really locking in to those 4 books you can touch printed off by Harry’s bought printing press to control the language.
What else went right? Well Vic’s foray into foreign missions and the India trip which Don never forgave him for as it tore apart his family. The youngest two were never the same.
So the pattern of appropriating culture for spreading Christianity went right for him to learn there.
Evenutally this led to large numbers in Africa and Argentina for a time. The numbers gave it rise. Without numbers it would have dropped into obscurity.
This continues today with puppets set up as country coordinators in these countries.
Just checking, chockful... did you purposely or accidentally get it wrong
what I meant by "what went right" ???
I meant what INITIALLY went SO RIGHT for you (and others here) that you would commit so much of you life to PFAL.
I'm thinking the parable of the Sower and the Seed. Initially, upon hearing the Word, it was received with great joy, but later on the problems arose that interfered with that joy.
How did you ALL (not just chockful) like that joy when it was happening? Can you get back to any of it? Have you tried?
I am fascinated by what went right for me, and for others I was close to.
I too eventually went down the drain, and lost my initial joy when things went wrong. I was less personally hurt directly, but many of my beloved friends were greatly discouraged and/or significantly hurt.
But it DID work for a while, and we did see that God was good... and better than any religion had taught us prior to PFAL.
When I was shown in 1998 that there were a bunch of things I had forgotten, and a bunch of things that I never quite "got," I decided to come back to PFAL (written form) and review it by simple reading. In a very short time, and by doing this review with a few others, I was astounded at the RETURN of my initial joy.
It can happen.
It did happen.
It can happen for you.
And then you can help people SORT through their past, and separate the truth from the error.You don’t have to be a spoilsport with them, and only magnify the negatives.You can help others find the joy again, and distance themselves from the negatives. It is worth it for the joy.
Just checking, chockful... did you purposely or accidentally get it wrong
what I meant by "what went right" ???
I meant what INITIALLY went SO RIGHT for you (and others here) that you would commit so much of you life to PFAL.
I'm thinking the parable of the Sower and the Seed. Initially, upon hearing the Word, it was received with great joy, but later on the problems arose that interfered with that joy.
How did you ALL (not just chockful) like that joy when it was happening? Can you get back to any of it? Have you tried?
I am fascinated by what went right for me, and for others I was close to.
I too eventually went down the drain, and lost my initial joy when things went wrong. I was less personally hurt directly, but many of my beloved friends were greatly discouraged and/or significantly hurt.
But it DID work for a while, and we did see that God was good... and better than any religion had taught us prior to PFAL.
When I was shown in 1998 that there were a bunch of things I had forgotten, and a bunch of things that I never quite "got," I decided to come back to PFAL (written form) and review it by simple reading. In a very short time, and by doing this review with a few others, I was astounded at the RETURN of my initial joy.
It can happen.
It did happen.
It can happen for you.
And then you can help people SORT through their past, and separate the truth from the error.You don’t have to be a spoilsport with them, and only magnify the negatives.You can help others find the joy again, and distance themselves from the negatives. It is worth it for the joy.
Did I get what wrong? Without each and every one of those things I referenced I never would have sat in PFAL.
You have a perspective like every good in your life is filtered through a PFAL colored lens.
My personal Christian story is another thing. It is really not for this thread. Why did I take PFAL? Similar to others I was without a support system in a church and love bombed by way members then was swayed by shell game logic and possibly disenfranchised with mainstream churches. I was at the target young age younger than 25 where your full mature logic has not developed yet. And I am swayed by altruistic goals. I stuck with the group until I saw the true fruit then God and the Lord Jesus Christ led me elsewhere on my personal journey.
And reading through this Mike you read into a lot. I am not unhappy with anything in my spiritual life right now. I am not negative.
But I wonder how your PFAL colored lens looks when you read any of the Old Testament books where people like Isaiah were not looking for what went right in the nation of Israel.
Isaiah maybe just needed to get back to the original feeling of joy he had for the nation of Israel rather than speaking up about the truth of the current state of Israel.
I was only 22, but I had a fairly long previous history of giving Roman Catholicism a solid try. I had never touched or even seen a Bible. By reading the PFAL book I could see that I had missed something big. I was very quickly impressed at how GOOD God turned out to be.
I could understand the principles in PFAL and applied them to my own massive reading. This generated LOTS of questions. At the 1972 Rock of Ages I happened to park right next to Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille's little camper. Or maybe he parked next to me. I had brought with me some books and a LONG list of questions. Earlier that Summer, Walter C. had answered a large fraction of my questions at a Renewed Mind Camp.
Everything I was learning in those days revolved around the goodness of God, and how Jesus Christ made it all happen via his obedience. I had great joy and learned how to get answers to questions that had plagued me as a Catholic. I have reported much here some small number of years here how John's first Epistle became a highlight in my life. When I read it now, I have all kinds of peace and love flashbacks to those early 70s when I first was taught the pure Word.
Now I love bringing it into my action in loving others. I had always thought as an RC that the end of the world was something to fear. I now love the promise and the hope of his, the man Christ Jesus' Return. I had great joy then, and I have it again now.
And reading through this Mike you read into a lot. I am not unhappy with anything in my spiritual life right now. I am not negative.
But I wonder how your PFAL colored lens looks when you read any of the Old Testament books where people like Isaiah were not looking for what went right in the nation of Israel.
Isaiah maybe just needed to get back to the original feeling of joy he had for the nation of Israel rather than speaking up about the truth of the current state of Israel.
Right?
In the OT, I see that most of the audience Isaian had were natural men with no spirit. That we all have pneuma hagion is a game changer.
As I said above, I do not ignore the negatives that happened, and deal with them in private. I have a much better set of GOOD NEWS items to talk about in public that Isaiah did not have. The positives get top, public priority for me, ESPECIALLY here in GSC where the negatives get top, public priority.
There is NO SHORTAGE here of the negatives which did happen being displayed.
There IS a conspicuous absence here of the massive number of good things that we were taught and that came into fruition in MANY lives.
Just checking, chockful... did you purposely or accidentally get it wrong
what I meant by "what went right" ???
I meant what INITIALLY went SO RIGHT for you (and others here) that you would commit so much of you life to PFAL.
I'm thinking the parable of the Sower and the Seed. Initially, upon hearing the Word, it was received with great joy, but later on the problems arose that interfered with that joy.
How did you ALL (not just chockful) like that joy when it was happening? Can you get back to any of it? Have you tried?
I am fascinated by what went right for me, and for others I was close to.
I too eventually went down the drain, and lost my initial joy when things went wrong. I was less personally hurt directly, but many of my beloved friends were greatly discouraged and/or significantly hurt.
But it DID work for a while, and we did see that God was good... and better than any religion had taught us prior to PFAL.
When I was shown in 1998 that there were a bunch of things I had forgotten, and a bunch of things that I never quite "got," I decided to come back to PFAL (written form) and review it by simple reading. In a very short time, and by doing this review with a few others, I was astounded at the RETURN of my initial joy.
It can happen.
It did happen.
It can happen for you.
And then you can help people SORT through their past, and separate the truth from the error.You don’t have to be a spoilsport with them, and only magnify the negatives.You can help others find the joy again, and distance themselves from the negatives. It is worth it for the joy.
Mike I haven't read through PFAL in years, and learned a few things since then. Still cling to some of that "stuff" though that VPW was teaching.
Mike, have you reached out to the B.G. Leonard ministries? They are still around; still get flyers from them from time to time. I mention this because, part of the joy we receive is from sincere godly service. Perhaps you may want to check them out. It does appear they teach much of the same good "stuff" that we got in twi, but without the heavy negative baggage.
Here's another thought. God is the Word. Jesus is the Word in the flesh. The Bible is the Word in writing. But wasn't VPW really talking about "action" and not mere form or existence? The thing that makes Christianity meaningful is Christ's amazing action on earth, and what we may do to imitate his great works of perseverence and gritty resolve. Hence, a possible definitive thought that agrees with the Book of Acts (action) is this:
"The [preached] Word takes the place of the [physically] absent Christ"
I think you are on the beam, again, Oldiesman.
It is the Word living in the mind of a believer that takes the place of the absent Christ.
One perfect human is hidden; another perfect human displayed, and then another, and another, and another, and....
By us being perfect I am thinking of incorruptible seed, old man reckoned dead, and walking in renewed mind love.
Christ, the physical man, is hidden so that MANY other physical men and women can take his place, and be his ambassador.
*/*/*
Here's a thought: how motivated are we to learn how to tap into the same power Jesus found, if he were here to do his thing. Look at the example of the apostles in the 4 Gospels. They tried at times, but often gave up and deferred to "let Jesus handle it." We don't have that option, and we MUST learn it, because Jesus is absent.... temporarily.
*/*/*/*
I was just finishing writing this post as I saw a notification that you posted again. I can't wait to see it. Thanks for you help here.
Mike I haven't read through PFAL in years, and learned a few things since then. Still cling to some of that "stuff" though that VPW was teaching.
Mike, have you reached out to the B.G. Leonard ministries? They are still around; still get flyers from them from time to time. I mention this because, part of the joy we receive is from sincere godly service. Perhaps you may want to check them out. It does appear they teach much of the same good "stuff" that we got in twi, but without the heavy negative baggage.
That is an interesting thought. I will consider it.
I've spent most of my time reaching out to old grads and finding out from them how they handle the baggage. If you could link me to the Leonard people that could be a refreshing change for me.
I did get a refreshing change 10 years ago when I discovered the local Deadhead community and I quickly learned to love Grateful Dead music and dancing. They have a sort of experimental, hidden, primitive Christianity thing going. I see a chain from Ken Kesey to the hippies doing this peace and love and look-like-Jesus movement, to the Jesus Freaks and all that, to Heefner and Doop, to the Groovy Rye Group. It is fertile witnessing ground.
But it never occured to me to contact the Leonard movement. Do they have many young people, or are they mostly oldsters like us, and like lots of grad splinter groups I see?
Always beware the person proclaiming, "We have to forget the negatives and focus on the positives." Usually, that person is setting you up to be duped again.
If you could get that telephone pole sized splinter out of your eye you'd have noticed that I said that I do NOT forget the negatives, nor do I expect others to do that. We can declare them null and void on our own lives, as the Word teaches, and IN PRIVATE we can help those who have not learned how to do this kind of declaration.
Did you miss that? ...that I do want to handle some of the negatives that I am qualified to handle?
Some of the negatives I feel totally unqualified to handle. I may grow in that area, though, as I work that which I am qualified to handle. I can handle the misunderstandings that happened in some people regarding the absent Christ. That is relatively easy to handle.
Please go back and read what you missed. I know bad things happened at times and places. It is only in my public posting that I prioritize the positives up to the top of the list.
In the OT, I see that most of the audience Isaian had were natural men with no spirit. That we all have pneuma hagion is a game changer.
As I said above, I do not ignore the negatives that happened, and deal with them in private. I have a much better set of GOOD NEWS items to talk about in public that Isaiah did not have. The positives get top, public priority for me, ESPECIALLY here in GSC where the negatives get top, public priority.
There is NO SHORTAGE here of the negatives which did happen being displayed.
There IS a conspicuous absence here of the massive number of good things that we were taught and that came into fruition in MANY lives.
So in the OT because they did not have pneuma hagion, or more accurately did not have it upon them at the time because Isaiah did and was confronting them, we now have the power to ignore the negatives?
Sounds more like pneuma ostrich to me as opposed to pneuma hagion.
I was only 22, but I had a fairly long previous history of giving Roman Catholicism a solid try. I had never touched or even seen a Bible. By reading the PFAL book I could see that I had missed something big. I was very quickly impressed at how GOOD God turned out to be.
I could understand the principles in PFAL and applied them to my own massive reading. This generated LOTS of questions. At the 1972 Rock of Ages I happened to park right next to Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille's little camper. Or maybe he parked next to me. I had brought with me some books and a LONG list of questions. Earlier that Summer, Walter C. had answered a large fraction of my questions at a Renewed Mind Camp.
Everything I was learning in those days revolved around the goodness of God, and how Jesus Christ made it all happen via his obedience. I had great joy and learned how to get answers to questions that had plagued me as a Catholic. I have reported much here some small number of years here how John's first Epistle became a highlight in my life. When I read it now, I have all kinds of peace and love flashbacks to those early 70s when I first was taught the pure Word.
Now I love bringing it into my action in loving others. I had always thought as an RC that the end of the world was something to fear. I now love the promise and the hope of his, the man Christ Jesus' Return. I had great joy then, and I have it again now.
Sure with an RC background and your main Way exposure being to VP at one of the highest points of his life, that makes sense this is your frame of reference.
Maybe consider the Way as an iceberg, and you enjoyed some snow from the shavings off the tip.
Much more of what I speak of is the large mass underneath the surface of the water. I found that part to impact me more over the years than snow off the top.
If you could get that telephone pole sized splinter out of your eye you'd have noticed that I said that I do NOT forget the negatives, nor do I expect others to do that.
Interesting choice of metaphors. Your whining about my pole sized splinter, yet you ignore your planet sized beam, the evil man Saint Vic really was. As Jesus encourages us, remove your beam before you complain about my splinter.
1 hour ago, Mike said:
We can declare them null and void on our own lives, as the Word teaches, and IN PRIVATE we can help those who have not learned how to do this kind of declaration.
You mean we can set others up to be duped again. After all, IN PRIVATE others are not made aware of the seething evil, are they?
It's also odd how you missed the part about learning our lessons from them, isn't it?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Did you miss that? ...that I do want to handle some of the negatives that I am qualified to handle?
Translation: Let's ignore all the evil Saint Vic has done and only focus on what I want to focus on.
So your whole present schtick boils down to: other than that, did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Some of the negatives I feel totally unqualified to handle. I may grow in that area, though, as I work that which I am qualified to handle. I can handle the misunderstandings that happened in some people regarding the absent Christ. That is relatively easy to handle.
Like I said, you don't want to deal with what an evil man Saint Vic was, instead let's gloss over that and put faith in the word salad he spewed.
Those that don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Is this your actual goal?
1 hour ago, Mike said:
Please go back and read what you missed. I know bad things happened at times and places. It is only in my public posting that I prioritize the positives up to the top of the list
You mean you prioritize things to delude you into ignoring the elephant in the room.
You claim Saint Vic got a lot of grace from God, even though Paul encouraged us not to continue in sin that grace may abound.
You'd think if God were going to roll out a bibical revision he would have chosen a better representative that someone who would use His Word to line the bottom of a bird cage.
Remember in the class wierwille talked about charismatic groups where one person speaks in tongues and another person interprets.
For some reason that memory came to mind as one Grease Spotter clearly explains wierwille’s deception and another Grease Spotter speaks in an obfuscating tongue…obviously two different messages are being communicated here.
One is speaking of the wayward works of wierwille. Some might say the other one is off his rocker.
Just comic con suppose we reimagine the origin story of StuporMan. A money grubbing fake farmer launches an escapist pod pseudo-christened Plagiarism to save his legacy from a dying con game.
Unbeknownst to the fake farmer, a fake farmer fan (fff) is stowed away on the pod. Unfamiliar with the controls and navigation system the fff causes Plagiarism to crash land on the planet Bizarro.
The inhabitants of Bizarro are mostly a gentle race - even if they do things backwards. They helped fff repair the pod and encouraged him to employ the backwards principle to retrace his journey back to Earth.
fff returned now having a denser mindset far beyond the abilities of other fffs . Inspired by Bizarro world’s unusual ways , fff made the fake farmer’s Plagiarism even more bizarre than it already was.
Dodging around pointed questions. Bending what another stole in his bare hands.
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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modcat5
Much easier to refute his nonsense, succeed, then just sit back while he pops up every 10 years like Davey Jones pretending his nonsense was never refuted.
This is why people say holy books have "stood the test of time." Because they ignore that it hasn't.
But I'll grant Mike this much: "PFAL is no less God-breathed than the Bible."
You can quote me on that, Mike.
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chockfull
What went right in PFAL. Well first off stealing the PFAL class. It went really right. I mean JE Stiles could have prosecuted VP for plagiarism. And paid more attention so that the theft could be publicized in the body of Christ the Christian community. But he didn’t so that went right for VP
Also with BG Leonard being Canadian, the court jurisdiction for pursuing a stolen class would not be favorable. That went right.
Also, Mrs Wierwille didn’t divorce him. Usually with men carrying on like that it ends in divorce. It did with Craig. So not getting divorced in the prime of his teaching career went really right for him also.
Theres a good start
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waysider
I have spoke with the tongue of angels
I have held the hand of a devil
It was warm in the night
I was cold as a stone
But I still haven't found what I'm looking for.
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chockfull
Having a multi millionaire brother in the furniture business. Without Harry covering Vic’s expenses the hoax would not have spread as wide. So that went right for Vic.
Finding 2 Jesus movement groups to invite back to the farm and produce the start of usurping their authority and money to establish two Way centers on the coasts. That went right.
Finding a young dumb tool athlete to turn the ministry over to who wasn’t smart enough to do anything other than what he was told. This went right. Documented in VP and Me.
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chockfull
Having secretaries who transcribed teachings - that went right for Vic. Thank you Rhoda! Copying all of the BRC sermons meant Vic didn’t have to write or find other books to copy. He could just ad lib, and his secretary could type away. So this is where the collaterals came from that Mike worships.
That went really right also. You have people on the verge of some mental issues really locking in to those 4 books you can touch printed off by Harry’s bought printing press to control the language.
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chockfull
What else went right? Well Vic’s foray into foreign missions and the India trip which Don never forgave him for as it tore apart his family. The youngest two were never the same.
So the pattern of appropriating culture for spreading Christianity went right for him to learn there.
Evenutally this led to large numbers in Africa and Argentina for a time. The numbers gave it rise. Without numbers it would have dropped into obscurity.
This continues today with puppets set up as country coordinators in these countries.
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chockfull
I’m ok with Mike feeding his ego with the attention while I write out common logic.
Other people read also.
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chockfull
So Vic was a narcissist who managed to successfully surround himself with an army of enablers.
This in a nutshell was what went right.
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Mike
Just checking, chockful... did you purposely or accidentally get it wrong
what I meant by "what went right" ???
I meant what INITIALLY went SO RIGHT for you (and others here) that you would commit so much of you life to PFAL.
I'm thinking the parable of the Sower and the Seed. Initially, upon hearing the Word, it was received with great joy, but later on the problems arose that interfered with that joy.
How did you ALL (not just chockful) like that joy when it was happening? Can you get back to any of it? Have you tried?
I am fascinated by what went right for me, and for others I was close to.
I too eventually went down the drain, and lost my initial joy when things went wrong. I was less personally hurt directly, but many of my beloved friends were greatly discouraged and/or significantly hurt.
But it DID work for a while, and we did see that God was good... and better than any religion had taught us prior to PFAL.
When I was shown in 1998 that there were a bunch of things I had forgotten, and a bunch of things that I never quite "got," I decided to come back to PFAL (written form) and review it by simple reading. In a very short time, and by doing this review with a few others, I was astounded at the RETURN of my initial joy.
It can happen.
It did happen.
It can happen for you.
And then you can help people SORT through their past, and separate the truth from the error. You don’t have to be a spoilsport with them, and only magnify the negatives. You can help others find the joy again, and distance themselves from the negatives. It is worth it for the joy.
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chockfull
Did I get what wrong? Without each and every one of those things I referenced I never would have sat in PFAL.
You have a perspective like every good in your life is filtered through a PFAL colored lens.
My personal Christian story is another thing. It is really not for this thread. Why did I take PFAL? Similar to others I was without a support system in a church and love bombed by way members then was swayed by shell game logic and possibly disenfranchised with mainstream churches. I was at the target young age younger than 25 where your full mature logic has not developed yet. And I am swayed by altruistic goals. I stuck with the group until I saw the true fruit then God and the Lord Jesus Christ led me elsewhere on my personal journey.
How about you?
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chockfull
And reading through this Mike you read into a lot. I am not unhappy with anything in my spiritual life right now. I am not negative.
But I wonder how your PFAL colored lens looks when you read any of the Old Testament books where people like Isaiah were not looking for what went right in the nation of Israel.
Isaiah maybe just needed to get back to the original feeling of joy he had for the nation of Israel rather than speaking up about the truth of the current state of Israel.
Right?
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Mike
I was only 22, but I had a fairly long previous history of giving Roman Catholicism a solid try. I had never touched or even seen a Bible. By reading the PFAL book I could see that I had missed something big. I was very quickly impressed at how GOOD God turned out to be.
I could understand the principles in PFAL and applied them to my own massive reading. This generated LOTS of questions. At the 1972 Rock of Ages I happened to park right next to Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille's little camper. Or maybe he parked next to me. I had brought with me some books and a LONG list of questions. Earlier that Summer, Walter C. had answered a large fraction of my questions at a Renewed Mind Camp.
Everything I was learning in those days revolved around the goodness of God, and how Jesus Christ made it all happen via his obedience. I had great joy and learned how to get answers to questions that had plagued me as a Catholic. I have reported much here some small number of years here how John's first Epistle became a highlight in my life. When I read it now, I have all kinds of peace and love flashbacks to those early 70s when I first was taught the pure Word.
Now I love bringing it into my action in loving others. I had always thought as an RC that the end of the world was something to fear. I now love the promise and the hope of his, the man Christ Jesus' Return. I had great joy then, and I have it again now.
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Mike
In the OT, I see that most of the audience Isaian had were natural men with no spirit. That we all have pneuma hagion is a game changer.
As I said above, I do not ignore the negatives that happened, and deal with them in private. I have a much better set of GOOD NEWS items to talk about in public that Isaiah did not have. The positives get top, public priority for me, ESPECIALLY here in GSC where the negatives get top, public priority.
There is NO SHORTAGE here of the negatives which did happen being displayed.
There IS a conspicuous absence here of the massive number of good things that we were taught and that came into fruition in MANY lives.
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oldiesman
Mike I haven't read through PFAL in years, and learned a few things since then. Still cling to some of that "stuff" though that VPW was teaching.
Mike, have you reached out to the B.G. Leonard ministries? They are still around; still get flyers from them from time to time. I mention this because, part of the joy we receive is from sincere godly service. Perhaps you may want to check them out. It does appear they teach much of the same good "stuff" that we got in twi, but without the heavy negative baggage.
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Mike
I think you are on the beam, again, Oldiesman.
It is the Word living in the mind of a believer that takes the place of the absent Christ.
One perfect human is hidden; another perfect human displayed, and then another, and another, and another, and....
By us being perfect I am thinking of incorruptible seed, old man reckoned dead, and walking in renewed mind love.
Christ, the physical man, is hidden so that MANY other physical men and women can take his place, and be his ambassador.
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Here's a thought: how motivated are we to learn how to tap into the same power Jesus found, if he were here to do his thing. Look at the example of the apostles in the 4 Gospels. They tried at times, but often gave up and deferred to "let Jesus handle it." We don't have that option, and we MUST learn it, because Jesus is absent.... temporarily.
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I was just finishing writing this post as I saw a notification that you posted again. I can't wait to see it. Thanks for you help here.
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Mike
That is an interesting thought. I will consider it.
Edited by MikeI've spent most of my time reaching out to old grads and finding out from them how they handle the baggage. If you could link me to the Leonard people that could be a refreshing change for me.
I did get a refreshing change 10 years ago when I discovered the local Deadhead community and I quickly learned to love Grateful Dead music and dancing. They have a sort of experimental, hidden, primitive Christianity thing going. I see a chain from Ken Kesey to the hippies doing this peace and love and look-like-Jesus movement, to the Jesus Freaks and all that, to Heefner and Doop, to the Groovy Rye Group. It is fertile witnessing ground.
But it never occured to me to contact the Leonard movement. Do they have many young people, or are they mostly oldsters like us, and like lots of grad splinter groups I see?
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Mike
If you could get that telephone pole sized splinter out of your eye you'd have noticed that I said that I do NOT forget the negatives, nor do I expect others to do that. We can declare them null and void on our own lives, as the Word teaches, and IN PRIVATE we can help those who have not learned how to do this kind of declaration.
Did you miss that? ...that I do want to handle some of the negatives that I am qualified to handle?
Some of the negatives I feel totally unqualified to handle. I may grow in that area, though, as I work that which I am qualified to handle. I can handle the misunderstandings that happened in some people regarding the absent Christ. That is relatively easy to handle.
Please go back and read what you missed. I know bad things happened at times and places. It is only in my public posting that I prioritize the positives up to the top of the list.
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oldiesman
I don't know. Their flyers look like they are busy and energetic.
About – Christian Training Centre of Texas (ctcoftexas.com)
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Mike
Thanks much. I found from that link a bunch of You-Tube videos at:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUgYujjYXLCJtX7xvv2_37w/featured
If that doesn;t work, this video can link you to their Subscription group:
It is called "Christian Training Centre of Texas" at You-Tube.
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chockfull
So in the OT because they did not have pneuma hagion, or more accurately did not have it upon them at the time because Isaiah did and was confronting them, we now have the power to ignore the negatives?
Sounds more like pneuma ostrich to me as opposed to pneuma hagion.
You can’t hide the body by burying the head lol.
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chockfull
Sure with an RC background and your main Way exposure being to VP at one of the highest points of his life, that makes sense this is your frame of reference.
Maybe consider the Way as an iceberg, and you enjoyed some snow from the shavings off the tip.
Much more of what I speak of is the large mass underneath the surface of the water. I found that part to impact me more over the years than snow off the top.
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So_crates
Interesting choice of metaphors. Your whining about my pole sized splinter, yet you ignore your planet sized beam, the evil man Saint Vic really was. As Jesus encourages us, remove your beam before you complain about my splinter.
You mean we can set others up to be duped again. After all, IN PRIVATE others are not made aware of the seething evil, are they?
It's also odd how you missed the part about learning our lessons from them, isn't it?
Translation: Let's ignore all the evil Saint Vic has done and only focus on what I want to focus on.
So your whole present schtick boils down to: other than that, did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?
Like I said, you don't want to deal with what an evil man Saint Vic was, instead let's gloss over that and put faith in the word salad he spewed.
Those that don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Is this your actual goal?
You mean you prioritize things to delude you into ignoring the elephant in the room.
You claim Saint Vic got a lot of grace from God, even though Paul encouraged us not to continue in sin that grace may abound.
You'd think if God were going to roll out a bibical revision he would have chosen a better representative that someone who would use His Word to line the bottom of a bird cage.
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T-Bone
Remember in the class wierwille talked about charismatic groups where one person speaks in tongues and another person interprets.
For some reason that memory came to mind as one Grease Spotter clearly explains wierwille’s deception and another Grease Spotter speaks in an obfuscating tongue…obviously two different messages are being communicated here.
One is speaking of the wayward works of wierwille. Some might say the other one is off his rocker.
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T-Bone
Just comic con suppose we reimagine the origin story of StuporMan. A money grubbing fake farmer launches an escapist pod pseudo-christened Plagiarism to save his legacy from a dying con game.
Unbeknownst to the fake farmer, a fake farmer fan (fff) is stowed away on the pod. Unfamiliar with the controls and navigation system the fff causes Plagiarism to crash land on the planet Bizarro.
The inhabitants of Bizarro are mostly a gentle race - even if they do things backwards. They helped fff repair the pod and encouraged him to employ the backwards principle to retrace his journey back to Earth.
fff returned now having a denser mindset far beyond the abilities of other fffs . Inspired by Bizarro world’s unusual ways , fff made the fake farmer’s Plagiarism even more bizarre than it already was.
Dodging around pointed questions. Bending what another stole in his bare hands.
The amazing adventures of StuporMan !
Crash landing in a “class” near you.
Edited by T-BoneTypos fixed by StuporEditor
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