HOWEVER, doesn't the Hayflick limit contradict victor's claim that no one dies until one stops believing, and the cessation of believing only comes when one gets too tired to believe anymore?
That is correct.
In addition, without the Hayflick Limit, our cells would continue to grow unchecked, causing a condition known as...(wait for it)...cancer.
So the Word is not the written word. It's not the Bible, it's not a theological commentary, it's not PFAL?
It's something in the mind? Something different from the Christ within, the holy spirit.
The simple phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous. Does it mean the originals? One of the critical Greek texts? All the critical Greek texts, ignoring their differences? The thousands of translations ???
We can't buy a Bible that is the official Word of God. Most of us have HEAVILY marked up our KJV to make it more accurate, but we all did it differently. To say that "The Bible is God's Word" could have a lot of different meanings for what "the Bible" is. Often context helps fix this, but not always.
I believe written PFAL is God-breathed, but it has NO NEW DOCTRINE in it. It is old doctrine, clarified or fixed where it was broken. It does not cover all the scriptures, but does make if possible for us to work those other scriptures.
But written PFAL and all Bible versions are worthless if they stay in written form, and not taken in and digested in the mind. Jesus said that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
The holy spirit in us is (Christ in us) built up by the words of SIT.
The forming Christ-like personality in our minds needs the food of the Word, and is built up by it.
They both need constant refreshing of this food, just like our bodies need food constantly.
In many ways our bodies and brain are designed to teach us spiritual realities like the food of the Word.
The simple phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous. Does it mean the originals? One of the critical Greek texts? All the critical Greek texts, ignoring their differences? The thousands of translations ???
We can't buy a Bible that is the official Word of God. Most of us have HEAVILY marked up our KJV to make it more accurate, but we all did it differently. To say that "The Bible is God's Word" could have a lot of different meanings for what "the Bible" is. Often context helps fix this, but not always.
I believe written PFAL is God-breathed, but it has NO NEW DOCTRINE in it. It is old doctrine, clarified or fixed where it was broken. It does not cover all the scriptures, but does make if possible for us to work those other scriptures.
But written PFAL and all Bible versions are worthless if they stay in written form, and not taken in and digested in the mind. Jesus said that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
The holy spirit in us is (Christ in us) built up by the words of SIT.
The forming Christ-like personality in our minds needs the food of the Word, and is built up by it.
They both need constant refreshing of this food, just like our bodies need food constantly.
In many ways our bodies and brain are designed to teach us spiritual realities like the food of the Word.
So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor?
This Word is what Jesus had in his mind before he met John the baptizer? And later, the contents of his mind were accurately revealed in PFAL, collaterals, etc.?
This is what replaces Jesus the Christ, who is absent? The contents of his mind, which is the Bible, corrected accurately by victor?
So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor?
This Word is what Jesus had in his mind before he met John the baptizer? And later, the contents of his mind were accurately revealed in PFAL, collaterals, etc.?
This is what replaces Jesus the Christ, who is absent? The contents of his mind, which is the Bible, corrected accurately by victor?
No it's more the attitudes of trust and believing that he had, and mix that with the Word which contains the promises of God. With a mind believing the promises of God and having holy spirit, it is possible to do all the things that Jesus did. So it's the attitudes and the power where we can be effective replacements for Christ Jesus, the man who is absent.
And, thus, by the process of deductive reasoning, you accept the law of believing, as set forth in PFAL, to be God-breathed.
Hey! That was easy!
I am still working on my understanding of that law.
Do you accept the words of Jesus on believing? He talked about it a lot. Are you familiar with his teachings on believing and what it can and can't do?
No it's more the attitudes of trust and believing that he had, and mix that with the Word which contains the promises of God. With a mind believing the promises of God and having holy spirit, it is possible to do all the things that Jesus did. So it's the attitudes and the power where we can be effective replacements for Christ Jesus, the man who is absent.
It is what you get in mind when you work the research principles of the class, in study of the KJV or your semi-corrected Cambridge Wide-Margin Bible, or nearly any other version. Even go into the ancient languages and texts if you can. Other principles like Receive, Retain, Release are also involved in building the Word in your mind.
Jesus did the same as a youth and young man. Walking love to serve and help others are other things Jesus did to build the Word in his mind. It wasn't there automatically. He ate the Word. He did this to the max and to perfection, so he is called "the Word made flesh" in the Gospel of John.
If and when student loans are forgiven, that is a free pass for them.
If and when we confess (admit, agree) our sins we are forgiven FAITHFULLY by God, no matter what the sin. People can't do this, but God can, and He promises it in 1 John 1:9
When we are forgiven by God we are cleansed from all unrighteousness.
That means we get a free pass from God and He is not at all inclined to punish, but very inclined to resume work moving His Word with us. People are not so inclined to forgive, and when they do they usually remember the hurt and there is no free pass from them or others who see the hurt.
These are very difficult issues. Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again.
Hi Mike,
I disagree with YOUR despicable and supposedly "Biblical" definition of “free pass” – and to the contrary the Bible is very clear that God did not tolerate bad behavior. And even though David was repentant of his adultery with Bathsheba – there were still multiple consequences – one of which was the child they both had together would die. David was told this by the prophet Nathan:
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the Lord, the son born to you will die.”
After Nathan had gone home, the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill. David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and spent the nights lying in sackcloth on the ground. The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them. On the seventh day the child died.II Samuel 12
God takes away the sin when one repents...but there's nothing about God nixing the consequences...I'm sure cult-leaders would like to think they get off Scot-free as long as the general public or their loyal followers don't find out about their depraved lifestyle - but unfortunately for them believing does NOT equal receiving
Mike, the child died, even after David fasted and pleaded with God! The way YOUrelated how God dealt with David you make it sound like God is a big softy on sin – and we should all be “so forgiving and forgetful”. When we repent God does forgive. But there's nothing in the Bible to indicate that there are no consequences from our wrong-doings. Suppose in the heat of passion, I shoot someone during a road rage incident. No matter how much I repent and try to make restitution to that person's family it will NOT bring the victim back to life. That's an irreversible consequence of my sin.
David’s reign was plagued by consequences of his bad behavior. You said “Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again.”
Mike,WHAT, pray tell , didYOUstudy?
YOURstatement sounds like an encrypted message to victims and cult-survivors – and it decodes as follows:
forgive and forget what harmful and controlling cult leaders have done to you so you can have the great benefit of hearing their bull$hit again.
Since he had done evil to another man’s family, King David would receive evil in his own family – the rape of Tamar (daughter of David by Macaah) by David’s son Amnon and then another son of David Absalom avenges Tamar by murdering Amnonsee II Samuel 13Sometime later Absalom was rebellious – and quietly built up support, declared himself king and mounted a revolt at Hebron, forcing David to flee to Jerusalemsee II Samuel 15later on Absalom set up a tent on the roof of the palace ( perhaps throwing in David's face where his adulterous musing began) and had sexual relations with David’s concubines to assert his right to his father’s throne seeII Samuel 16.
~ ~ ~ ~
This is an interesting failure to note. The following is a record of God giving David a choice of 3 options in consequences for his royal blunder:
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. So, David said to Joab and the commanders of the troops, “Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are.”
3 But Joab replied, “May the Lord multiply his troops a hundred times over. My lord the king, are they not all my lord’s subjects? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?”
4 The king’s word, however, overruled Joab; so Joab left and went throughout Israel and then came back to Jerusalem. 5 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to David: In all Israel there were one million one hundred thousand men who could handle a sword, including four hundred and seventy thousand in Judah.
6 But Joab did not include Levi and Benjamin in the numbering, because the king’s command was repulsive to him. 7 This command was also evil in the sight of God; so, he punished Israel.
8 Then David said to God, “I have sinned greatly by doing this. Now, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.”
9 The Lord said to Gad, David’s seer, 10 “Go and tell David, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’”
11 So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord—days of plague in the land, with the angel of the Lord ravaging every part of Israel.’ Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me.”
13 David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”
14 So the Lord sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead. 15 And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the Lord saw it and relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was destroying the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
16 David looked up and saw the angel of the Lord standing between heaven and earth, with a drawn sword in his hand extended over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell facedown.
17 David said to God, “Was it not I who ordered the fighting men to be counted? I, the shepherd, have sinned and done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Lord my God, let your hand fall on me and my family, but do not let this plague remain on your people.” II Chronicles 21
It’s kind of predictable how some wierwille and LCM sympathizers have King David as their go-to mascot for a free pass on bad behavior. I’ve seen this come up occasionally on Grease Spot Café. A couple of notable threads always come to mind – maybe because I’m kind of proud of my response to such bull$hit…you can see the posts- hereand here
Enjoy a deeper Bible study
Edited by T-Bone profiling in typos was a big mistake!
It is what you get in mind when you work the research principles of the class, in study of the KJV or your semi-corrected Cambridge Wide-Margin Bible, or nearly any other version. Even go into the ancient languages and texts if you can. Other principles like Receive, Retain, Release are also involved in building the Word in your mind.
Jesus did the same as a youth and young man. Walking love to serve and help others are other things Jesus did to build the Word in his mind. It wasn't there automatically. He ate the Word. He did this to the max and to perfection, so he is called "the Word made flesh" in the Gospel of John.
I'm really trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct.
I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do.
So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible.
The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those.
The Word is NOT something there automatically.
The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought.
Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind?
So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!"
Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principles is the will of god."
Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much."
Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?
I'm not sure if this is a reasonable way to characterize this topic, but it sure sounds like vain babbling to me.
Word salad?
It sounds like the Word that replaces the absent Christ is an opinion formulated in the mind through "research." A pretty flimsy replacement for Christ.
It sounds like the Word that replaces the absent Christ is an opinion formulated in the mind through "research." A pretty flimsy replacement for Christ.
You wrote: "So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor?"
No. You missed what I said on this. Go back and read more. It may be in my response to someone else, who is hitting me with similar questions.
I said that VPW and PFAL did NOT cover all the KJV, only a fraction of it.
There were some sections in the KJV where we did get corrections to the KJV.
These corrected verses were only a fraction of the whole Bible.
In the opening minutes of the class VPW says that he is not going to cover the whole Bible. Remember?
He taught whole Epistles to the Corps, and some translation/versions called literals. But that was never the big deal then, to have our own translation. That is a pretty fluid thing, and still needs lots of work.
But the collaterals were something solid to help us like a foundation.
*/*/*/*
I am running out of time, but I noticed another major thing you omitted in your posting later in the evening. You missed including holy spirit in your analysis. I’ll look for it tomorrow.
*/*/*/*
You then wrote:
“This Word is what Jesus had in his mind before he met John the baptizer? And later, the contents of his mind were accurately revealed in PFAL, collaterals, etc.?”
Well I know I told you it’s not like that. It is the attitude and trust for believing that Jesus did that we are to imitate. He had a different mission than us. He studied to OT for his mission. We study Acts and the Epistles for our mission. Our mission is to do the will of our Father.
You learn the Word as you carry out God’s will, living in love and speaking His Word.
The attitudes we are to have are well taught in the collaterals. We are also to apply the collaterals to the other scriptures and rightly divide them and learn them… again holy spirit makes the difference.
It says in Hebrews that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. If you seek His Word thru study and living it, then He will meet you half way and guide you so that is HIS Word that gets built in your mind, and not some human invention of your own. This is what holy spirit permanent and pure does does for us. Speaking in tongues is the ultimate of this, and the Father is thrilled when we do it.
*/*/*/*
Lastly you wrote:
“This is what replaces Jesus the Christ, who is absent? The contents of his mind, which is the Bible, corrected accurately by victor?”
No, no, and no
This is a summary of the errors you had above that I already handled.
I think if you re-read my earlier posts on this whole thread you will benefit. You are pretty much on the wrong track with your questions here. When and if I have time I will read your other posts to see if I can help more.
I really think you should start all over on this thread. You missed a lot.
Yikes! Now it's 5 hours ago.
You wrote: "So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor?"
I'm really trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct.
I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do.
So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible.
The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those.
The Word is NOT something there automatically.
The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought.
Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind?
So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!"
Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principles is the will of god."
Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much."
Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?
Yikes I had to answer this.
I mentioned that the phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous.|
Before I can answer this I you need to specify what you mean EXACTLY for every occurance of the word Bible in your post, before I can answer it in a timely manner. Otherwise I will have to ask you for each one what you mean.
*/*/*/*/*
We started this in a specific section of doctrine and now it is had drifted a bit.
Let's start all over for a minute, going back to how the Word originally got here.
God found a man who could hear Him due to diligently seeking Him. What God spoke to this man is the Word. That man tells others in love. Eventually, the man to whom God spoke tells others in written form. These kinds of writings accumulate over time. Young Jesus feeds off them. He learns them well, and then perfectly, and then shows us the Father as we see him. He is the Word made flesh. Now we get to do the same, and God will help us. It is a matter of WHO do you love. If you seek the Word of God with all your heart, then act on it. Minister what you know to others in love, like Jesus did. God will help you. Good night, sir.
I mentioned that the phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous.|
Before I can answer this I you need to specify what you mean EXACTLY for every occurance of the word Bible in your post, before I can answer it in a timely manner. Otherwise I will have to ask you for each one what you mean.
Right. So, I let you cut through the ambiguity of "the Bible" and establish a definition when I asked, simply: What is the Word?
6 hours ago, Mike said:
It is what you get in mind when you work the research principles of the class, in study of the KJV or your semi-corrected Cambridge Wide-Margin Bible, or nearly any other version. Even go into the ancient languages and texts if you can. Other principles like Receive, Retain, Release are also involved in building the Word in your mind.
Jesus did the same as a youth and young man. Walking love to serve and help others are other things Jesus did to build the Word in his mind. It wasn't there automatically. He ate the Word. He did this to the max and to perfection, so he is called "the Word made flesh" in the Gospel of John.
My response to your answer:
"I'mreally trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct.
I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do.
So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible.
The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those.
The Word is NOT something there automatically.
The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought.
Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind?
So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!"
Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principlesis the will of god."
Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much."
Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?"
========
THEN you clarified. It sounds like the Word is scripture. But not the Bible? Where do I find the Word to study it? Didn't victor open PFAL with something like: The greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the Word of God? I'm paraphrasing.
34 minutes ago, Mike said:
Let's start all over for a minute, going back to how the Word originally got here.
God found a man who could hear Him due to diligently seeking Him. What God spoke to this man is the Word. That man tells others in love. Eventually, the man to whom God spoke tells others in written form. These kinds of writings accumulate over time.
Didn't victor open PFAL with something like: The greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the Word of God? I'm paraphrasing.
For the benefit of anyone reading this who is not a former student of PFAL:
in each session of the Foundational Class there is a group of focus questions called, appropriately, "Listening With A Purpose". There are usually about 5 or 6 per session, if my memory serves me correctly, and they are listed in the syllabus on the corresponding page for each session. There is only one "correct" answer for each question. (An important point to remember as preparation takes place for entrance into the Advanced Class.) The Class Instructor, who is not actually an instructor, but, rather, a presenter of the materials, supplies the officially approved answer to each question as a summary of each particular session.
The very first "Listening With A Purpose" for session #1 reads as follows:
1.)What is the greatest secret in the world today?
The official answer is "The Bible is the revealed word and will of God."
It is what you get in mind when you work the research principles of the class, in study of the KJV or your semi-corrected Cambridge Wide-Margin Bible, or nearly any other version.
So.....I ask this to you as a Christian --- Im qualifying it this way because some here aren't Christian and I would have 0 expectation that they would have trust/faith in anything Biblical for whatever reason. I respect that boundary. But for you Mike - you are Christian...same as me. Do you really believe that God almighty is incapable of bringing his will together in written form so that those who want may know him and his ways?
Personally, I think wierwille took what fit his lusts for money and position from whatever source he could, including gathering from known occultist like Albert Cliffe, and called it the word of God and claimed his stolen materials were gathered by yeeeaaars of research. That's verifiable truth. However, please answer the question above, and I will restate it for clarity.
Do you really believe that God almighty is incapable of bringing his will together in written form so that those who want to may know him and his ways?
When we are forgiven by God we are cleansed from all unrighteousness.
That means we get a free pass from God and He is not at all inclined to punish, but very inclined to resume work moving His Word with us. People are not so inclined to forgive, and when they do they usually remember the hurt and there is no free pass from them or others who see the hurt.
These are very difficult issues. Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again.
Mike said:
That means we get a free pass from God and He is not at all inclined to punish, but very inclined to resume work moving His Word with us. People are not so inclined to forgive, and when they do they usually remember the hurt and there is no free pass from them or others who see the hurt.
These are very difficult issues. Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again.
~ ~ ~ ~
T-Bone's reply:
Free pass = toleration of bad behavior or poor performance
Punish = inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code
What is the difference between punishment and consequences?
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
God punished King David and brought upon him the evil consequences of his sin to teach him (and others) the pure character of God’s Law.
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
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OldSkool
First off, Biblically speaking, Christ has never been absent...that doctrine does not come close to occuring anywhere in the Bible. Yet the way international teaches the word of God takes the place of
Bolshevik
Mike's apparent anger toward Christ and emphasis on obedience . . . that's Wayworld . . . that's the annihilation of the individual
waysider
Soooo...He used ONE verse from the Amplified Bible, HALF a chapter from the New English Bible and required PFAL '77 students to get some version from the 1800's that has a name so unremarkable you can
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waysider
That is correct.
In addition, without the Hayflick Limit, our cells would continue to grow unchecked, causing a condition known as...(wait for it)...cancer.
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Nathan_Jr
OMG! ROTFLMAO!
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Mike
The simple phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous. Does it mean the originals? One of the critical Greek texts? All the critical Greek texts, ignoring their differences? The thousands of translations ???
We can't buy a Bible that is the official Word of God. Most of us have HEAVILY marked up our KJV to make it more accurate, but we all did it differently. To say that "The Bible is God's Word" could have a lot of different meanings for what "the Bible" is. Often context helps fix this, but not always.
I believe written PFAL is God-breathed, but it has NO NEW DOCTRINE in it. It is old doctrine, clarified or fixed where it was broken. It does not cover all the scriptures, but does make if possible for us to work those other scriptures.
But written PFAL and all Bible versions are worthless if they stay in written form, and not taken in and digested in the mind. Jesus said that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
The holy spirit in us is (Christ in us) built up by the words of SIT.
The forming Christ-like personality in our minds needs the food of the Word, and is built up by it.
They both need constant refreshing of this food, just like our bodies need food constantly.
In many ways our bodies and brain are designed to teach us spiritual realities like the food of the Word.
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Nathan_Jr
So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor?
This Word is what Jesus had in his mind before he met John the baptizer? And later, the contents of his mind were accurately revealed in PFAL, collaterals, etc.?
This is what replaces Jesus the Christ, who is absent? The contents of his mind, which is the Bible, corrected accurately by victor?
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waysider
And, thus, by the process of deductive reasoning, you accept the law of believing, as set forth in PFAL, to be God-breathed.
Hey! That was easy!
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Mike
No it's more the attitudes of trust and believing that he had, and mix that with the Word which contains the promises of God. With a mind believing the promises of God and having holy spirit, it is possible to do all the things that Jesus did. So it's the attitudes and the power where we can be effective replacements for Christ Jesus, the man who is absent.
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Mike
I am still working on my understanding of that law.
Do you accept the words of Jesus on believing? He talked about it a lot. Are you familiar with his teachings on believing and what it can and can't do?
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Nathan_Jr
What is the Word?
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Mike
It is what you get in mind when you work the research principles of the class, in study of the KJV or your semi-corrected Cambridge Wide-Margin Bible, or nearly any other version. Even go into the ancient languages and texts if you can. Other principles like Receive, Retain, Release are also involved in building the Word in your mind.
Jesus did the same as a youth and young man. Walking love to serve and help others are other things Jesus did to build the Word in his mind. It wasn't there automatically. He ate the Word. He did this to the max and to perfection, so he is called "the Word made flesh" in the Gospel of John.
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T-Bone
Hi Mike,
I disagree with YOUR despicable and supposedly "Biblical" definition of “free pass” – and to the contrary the Bible is very clear that God did not tolerate bad behavior. And even though David was repentant of his adultery with Bathsheba – there were still multiple consequences – one of which was the child they both had together would die. David was told this by the prophet Nathan:
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the Lord, the son born to you will die.”
After Nathan had gone home, the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill. David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and spent the nights lying in sackcloth on the ground. The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them. On the seventh day the child died. II Samuel 12
God takes away the sin when one repents...but there's nothing about God nixing the consequences...I'm sure cult-leaders would like to think they get off Scot-free as long as the general public or their loyal followers don't find out about their depraved lifestyle - but unfortunately for them believing does NOT equal receiving
Mike, the child died, even after David fasted and pleaded with God! The way YOU related how God dealt with David you make it sound like God is a big softy on sin – and we should all be “so forgiving and forgetful”. When we repent God does forgive. But there's nothing in the Bible to indicate that there are no consequences from our wrong-doings. Suppose in the heat of passion, I shoot someone during a road rage incident. No matter how much I repent and try to make restitution to that person's family it will NOT bring the victim back to life. That's an irreversible consequence of my sin.
David’s reign was plagued by consequences of his bad behavior. You said “Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again.”
Mike, WHAT , pray tell , did YOU study?
YOUR statement sounds like an encrypted message to victims and cult-survivors – and it decodes as follows:
forgive and forget what harmful and controlling cult leaders have done to you so you can have the great benefit of hearing their bull$hit again.
Since he had done evil to another man’s family, King David would receive evil in his own family – the rape of Tamar (daughter of David by Macaah) by David’s son Amnon and then another son of David Absalom avenges Tamar by murdering Amnon see II Samuel 13 Sometime later Absalom was rebellious – and quietly built up support, declared himself king and mounted a revolt at Hebron, forcing David to flee to Jerusalem see II Samuel 15 later on Absalom set up a tent on the roof of the palace ( perhaps throwing in David's face where his adulterous musing began) and had sexual relations with David’s concubines to assert his right to his father’s throne see II Samuel 16 .
~ ~ ~ ~
This is an interesting failure to note. The following is a record of God giving David a choice of 3 options in consequences for his royal blunder:
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. So, David said to Joab and the commanders of the troops, “Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are.”
3 But Joab replied, “May the Lord multiply his troops a hundred times over. My lord the king, are they not all my lord’s subjects? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?”
4 The king’s word, however, overruled Joab; so Joab left and went throughout Israel and then came back to Jerusalem. 5 Joab reported the number of the fighting men to David: In all Israel there were one million one hundred thousand men who could handle a sword, including four hundred and seventy thousand in Judah.
6 But Joab did not include Levi and Benjamin in the numbering, because the king’s command was repulsive to him. 7 This command was also evil in the sight of God; so, he punished Israel.
8 Then David said to God, “I have sinned greatly by doing this. Now, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing.”
9 The Lord said to Gad, David’s seer, 10 “Go and tell David, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.’”
11 So Gad went to David and said to him, “This is what the Lord says: ‘Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the Lord—days of plague in the land, with the angel of the Lord ravaging every part of Israel.’ Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me.”
13 David said to Gad, “I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into human hands.”
14 So the Lord sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead. 15 And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the Lord saw it and relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was destroying the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
16 David looked up and saw the angel of the Lord standing between heaven and earth, with a drawn sword in his hand extended over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell facedown.
17 David said to God, “Was it not I who ordered the fighting men to be counted? I, the shepherd, have sinned and done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? Lord my God, let your hand fall on me and my family, but do not let this plague remain on your people.” II Chronicles 21
It’s kind of predictable how some wierwille and LCM sympathizers have King David as their go-to mascot for a free pass on bad behavior. I’ve seen this come up occasionally on Grease Spot Café. A couple of notable threads always come to mind – maybe because I’m kind of proud
of my response to such bull$hit…you can see the posts - here and here
Edited by T-Boneprofiling in typos was a big mistake!
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OldSkool
Add plagairaism to that list too...lol
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Nathan_Jr
I'm really trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct.
I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do.
So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible.
The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those.
The Word is NOT something there automatically.
The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought.
Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind?
So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!"
Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principles is the will of god."
Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much."
Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?
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Rocky
I'm not sure if this is a reasonable way to characterize this topic, but it sure sounds like vain babbling to me.
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Nathan_Jr
Word salad?
It sounds like the Word that replaces the absent Christ is an opinion formulated in the mind through "research." A pretty flimsy replacement for Christ.
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T-Bone
nonattendance takes the place of absenteeism
synonymously speaking of course
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Mike
Well, it's late and I have only a small amount of time to respond to many posts. Sorry about that.
Anyone got any ideas whom I should select?
Lottery?
Sorry, T-Bone yours is way too long for me tonight.
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Nathan_Jr
Please answer my questions about the Word.
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Mike
I was trying to answer your first question of 4 hours ago, and accidentally lost it. I should have been working it on my word processor.
I'll try again. I am tired.
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Mike
Yikes! Now it's 5 hours ago.
You wrote: "So, the Word of God is the Bible as interpreted and corrected back to the original, according to victor?"
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Mike
Yikes I had to answer this.
I mentioned that the phrase "the Bible" is very ambiguous.|
Before I can answer this I you need to specify what you mean EXACTLY for every occurance of the word Bible in your post, before I can answer it in a timely manner. Otherwise I will have to ask you for each one what you mean.
*/*/*/*/*
We started this in a specific section of doctrine and now it is had drifted a bit.
Let's start all over for a minute, going back to how the Word originally got here.
God found a man who could hear Him due to diligently seeking Him. What God spoke to this man is the Word. That man tells others in love. Eventually, the man to whom God spoke tells others in written form. These kinds of writings accumulate over time. Young Jesus feeds off them. He learns them well, and then perfectly, and then shows us the Father as we see him. He is the Word made flesh. Now we get to do the same, and God will help us. It is a matter of WHO do you love. If you seek the Word of God with all your heart, then act on it. Minister what you know to others in love, like Jesus did. God will help you. Good night, sir.
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Nathan_Jr
Right. So, I let you cut through the ambiguity of "the Bible" and establish a definition when I asked, simply: What is the Word?
My response to your answer:
"I'm really trying to get down to it. I feel like I've been asking some simple questions. Some open, but many closed. I'm really trying to be direct.
I'm sure you'll correct me, if I get this wrong. Please do.
So, the Word is NOT the Bible, nor in the Bible.
The Word is NOT PFAL, collaterals, critical texts, etc., nor in those.
The Word is NOT something there automatically.
The Word is created in the mind - a product of thought.
Very simply: The Word is the content of a conditioned mind? The content built by programming through research of the Bible, which is not itself the Word? The Word is built in the mind through quasi-academic research? It doesn't exist on its own. It's something constructed in the mind?
So, when victor says, "The word, the word, and nothing but the word," he could have just as accurately said, "The contents of your indoctrinated mind, the contents of your indoctrinated mind, and nothing but the contents of your indoctrinated mind!"
Or, "The word of god is the will of god." = "Your conditioned mind trained according to these research principles is the will of god."
Or, "Study the word much." = "Study your conditioned mind much."
Simple. Keep it simple. Direct. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Is the above what you mean?"
========
Edited by Nathan_JrTHEN you clarified. It sounds like the Word is scripture. But not the Bible? Where do I find the Word to study it? Didn't victor open PFAL with something like: The greatest secret in the world today is that the Bible is the Word of God? I'm paraphrasing.
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waysider
For the benefit of anyone reading this who is not a former student of PFAL:
in each session of the Foundational Class there is a group of focus questions called, appropriately, "Listening With A Purpose". There are usually about 5 or 6 per session, if my memory serves me correctly, and they are listed in the syllabus on the corresponding page for each session. There is only one "correct" answer for each question. (An important point to remember as preparation takes place for entrance into the Advanced Class.) The Class Instructor, who is not actually an instructor, but, rather, a presenter of the materials, supplies the officially approved answer to each question as a summary of each particular session.
The very first "Listening With A Purpose" for session #1 reads as follows:
1.)What is the greatest secret in the world today?
The official answer is "The Bible is the revealed word and will of God."
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OldSkool
So.....I ask this to you as a Christian --- Im qualifying it this way because some here aren't Christian and I would have 0 expectation that they would have trust/faith in anything Biblical for whatever reason. I respect that boundary. But for you Mike - you are Christian...same as me. Do you really believe that God almighty is incapable of bringing his will together in written form so that those who want may know him and his ways?
Personally, I think wierwille took what fit his lusts for money and position from whatever source he could, including gathering from known occultist like Albert Cliffe, and called it the word of God and claimed his stolen materials were gathered by yeeeaaars of research. That's verifiable truth. However, please answer the question above, and I will restate it for clarity.
Do you really believe that God almighty is incapable of bringing his will together in written form so that those who want to may know him and his ways?
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T-Bone
Mike said:
That means we get a free pass from God and He is not at all inclined to punish, but very inclined to resume work moving His Word with us. People are not so inclined to forgive, and when they do they usually remember the hurt and there is no free pass from them or others who see the hurt.
These are very difficult issues. Studying Uriah's family and how they handled the hurt from David is enlightening. Some did not give a free pass to David, some did. The ones who did forgive and forget (somewhat) had the great benefit of hearing God's Word from David again.
~ ~ ~ ~
T-Bone's reply:
Free pass = toleration of bad behavior or poor performance
Punish = inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code
What is the difference between punishment and consequences?
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
God punished King David and brought upon him the evil consequences of his sin to teach him (and others) the pure character of God’s Law.
Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:
God tolerates bad behavior or poor performance.
Edited by T-BoneDoes my editor have ADD?
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